I was talking to someone from a former Soviet republic the other night

[Art_from_Ark]

We started talking about the US primaries, and she asked me, "Who do you support? Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump?"

"Bernie Sanders", I replied.

"Who's that?"

"He's a Democratic candidate for President who is running against Hillary Clinton."

After explaining to her about the presidential primary, which she found both interesting and perplexing, I then asked her, "If the campaign manager of one candidate was in charge of counting the votes in her district, and she said that her candidate won, but would not provide the hard data to back that up, what would you think?"

"We had corrupt elections all the time in the old Soviet days," she said, "so that would be par for the course in an old Soviet Union election. Even today, it's very common in my country."

"What if I told you that that happened in the American state of Iowa, and Hillary's campaign manager was the one who declared Hillary the winner in Iowa, but would not release the hard data to back it up?"

She was incredulous. "I thought American elections were clean".

I then told her about Bullhorn Bill's escapades in Massachusetts, the curious shortages of ballots and only Hillary's name appearing on sample ballots in Illinois, the drastic reduction of polling places and long lines of voters in Arizona, the curious re-registration of party affiliation that voters were not aware of in various states, and super delegates. "That sounds more like an old Soviet election!" she exclaimed.

Then I showed her the video of Bernie and the Bird. When she saw the reaction of Bernie and his audience to the appearance of the bird, and heard Bernie say that the bird was actually a dove asking for World Peace, her eyes lit up.

"And Bernie has been invited by the Vatican to give a speech on income inequality," I added

"He must be a very special person", she concluded.

Indeed, he must be.

[LiberalArkie]

1. K&R

Very good.

[peacebird]

2. Lovely!

[Merryland]

3. if nothing else

this primary season has taught us about how easily democracy could be brought to heel. It is a lesson not soon forgotten. And to assume that those of us who care about this nation will "fall in line" for a neocon over a thug - well, think again.

[davidpdx]

4. Very interesting

The elections (especially the primaries) have been played lucey goosey and there have been irregularities all over the place. What happened in Colorado is a disgrace. Someone should LOSE THEIR GOD DAMN FUCKING JOB! It makes me want to spit on someone. Seriously! They god damn fucking cheat because they can't win honestly. Fucking assholes.

[Baobab]

8. Worst case scenario: Hillary will "win" and there will be a lot of stuff that comes out

that throws the country into disarray and then the police state will kick in and start behaving like they do in Latin America or other countries where the US has intervened.

Leading to dissent within the government when lots of their own people refuse to go along with it, and a real mess.

Not a pretty situation.

But if people read up on history that's what's likely to happen.

Pray for peace! Pray for wise leaders.

Seriously.

[bjo59]

28. I'm thinking along the same lines as you.

The disarray will truly kick in when the economy goes belly up in some totally flamboyant way (think another banking implosion - part 2 that has been being predicted by many economists).

[davidpdx]

38. I am skeptical it will come out

[haikugal]

5. Excellent post. Like the old Soviet Union indeed....

If this doesn't get corrected this time then we will have no recourse...we've known of some of the problems but our representatives ignored it, useful I'm thinking. Very useful.

[Duppers]

6. Excellent!!

Great job, my friend! Such a great job that I'm copying, quoting, and sending this out to some stubborn acquaintances and friends.



Hubs has a Jewish friend from the former Soviet Union who cannot be persuaded to support Bernie. You probably know why.

[Art_from_Ark]

17. Thanks!

I must say, though, that I'm not sure why your Jewish friend would be against Bernie-- unless he's fervently anti-Russian, and doesn't like the fact that Bernie visited the USSR as a representative of Yaroslavl's sister city.

[Duppers]

22. Because of Hillary's zealous support of Israel.

And he see her hawkishness as a plus.

And I don't think he likes the fact that Bernie is not a more orthadox Jew.

[braddy]

7. Was she aware that this was about a political party's internal battles

and not the actual government elections?

[Baobab]

9. I have had numerous friends who grew up under totalitarianism who I have spent

a huge amount of time talking about this with,

And one of the distinguishing features of it is that there always is a fake "for TV" government that has little if any real power, and the real government which is secret.

There are a lot of aspects to it which seem to be consistent between countries.

One example of this is that a demotion in the real government is often framed as a promotion in the fake government in the media.

Also, there are "komissars" political appointees who must approve everything, often they have no experience in the areas they are supposed to be approving, for example, in businesses and academia, every workplace has a "real" boss who usually is the accountant, who is basically the person who has to approve all hiring, all promotions, a situation which is infuriating and insulting to research and technical people.

In my darker moments I wonder if we have something like that here too. That would make the internal party squabbles (because in reality there only would be one "Party" fairly irrelevant to the actual power structure.)

In the case of somebody winning the Presidency whose stated platform was so diametrically opposed to the real agenda that the two would not be able to coexist without some really difficult to maintain and tenuous cover story.

Which I think would be the case under a Sanders Presidency. Of course all "candidates" would have to have already proven their loyalty to the secret Party.

Under that (unlikely of course, fake, hypothetical) scenario, he would likely have gotten the go ahead several years ago to run only to make the intentionally corrupt system look legitimate and would be expected to figure out a way to screw up, or bow out - not win. So the annoited one could win.

But if a groundswell of popular support for a fake candidacy became huge then its possible all bets would be off and it could turn into a showdown between the fake government and the will of the people. One which the fake government would still likely win but not without some difficulty.

[braddy]

11. The thing is to make sure this woman understands that the conversation was about a

privately owned political party of citizen members and members only, that makes it's own rules for it's own private membership, not actual national elections.

[Art_from_Ark]

14. Open primaries are open to all voters regardless of party affiliation

They are overseen by elected officials.
Your rationalization is nonsense.

[braddy]

16. Then go to the law.

[Art_from_Ark]

18. Are you not aware that the DoJ is investigating primary shenanigans in Arizona?

This is NOT simply a matter of the "internal battles" of political parties.

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/04/05/politics/justice-department-investigation-arizona/

[braddy]

19. Just do whatever you want to do, but I'm not in charge of it.

[Art_from_Ark]

20. The DoJ investigation is about voter suppression-- in a primary election

Once again, this is NOT just some internal battle in a political party.

[braddy]

21. How many times are you going to post that to me? How about you have repeated it enough.

[Art_from_Ark]

24. As many times as it takes

to get it across to you that primary elections are serious public business and should be free from cheating and voter suppression.

[braddy]

25. You are the first of this type that I have run into here, I guess it had to happen sometime.

[Art_from_Ark]

29. Sure it had to happen sometime

once you ventured out of the Hillary group/campaign.

This is the Bernie Sanders Group, by the way-- a place where people take the integrity of elections seriously.

[braddy]

36. Your assessment is wrong and another personal attack.

[Art_from_Ark]

13. Are you serious?

These are not elections to determine the DNC's officers. They are public participation elections to determine candidates for public office. Ergo, they are NOT simply "internal battles". In my own state's primary, I had to sign an affidavit that my voter information was correct and that I was not registered in any other election district. The primary election in my state is treated just like a general election, and is overseen by the county clerks at the local level, and by the state attorney general at the state level.

[braddy]

15. If something illegal is being done, then go to the law. If it is going against party rules, then

go to the people who run the party.

[Duppers]

23. "a political party's internal battles" What...?

I agree with Art, are you serious?
Wow!

Do you understand elections and the political process?

[mopinko]

10. illinois sample ballot

that is a bogus issue. there is no sample ballot printed by the election commission. that was a democratic party "sample", which was just their endorsed candidates. they are free to do that, and always do.

[Art_from_Ark]

12. Are you seriously trying to justify that?

How can you possibly claim that official sample primary ballots that purposefully omitted the names of certain registered, bona fide candidates is a bogus issue? Just what is the purpose of an official sample ballot? In an honest, untainted election, it is let voters know who all the candidates are, not just those endorsed by the local apparatchiks.

Purposefully omitting the names of bona fide candidates from an official sample ballot is a sleazy, slimy, underhanded way to confuse voters.

[delrem]

26. It certainly does tell a tale, doesn't it?

The apologetics for it are that the sample ballot was "campaign literature", so didn't reflect on the party.

Yet the "campaign literature" is labelled:
Official Democratic Primary Election Sample Ballot
City of Chicago - 13th Ward
Michael J. Madigan, ward committeeman
Marty Quinn, alderman

Election law permits you to take this sample ballot into the voting booth.

[mopinko]

31. there is no official sample ballot for the election.

there is only the ballot.
this was the party's "official" endorsed candidates.
it was campaign lit. a party mailer.

if people are so dumb that they dont know that there are 2 candidates for pres, i'm not sure they should be voting. ditto if you expect the party to include anyone but endorsed candidates in their lit.

talk about a tempest in a tea cup. talk about nontroversy.

i feel the bern, but really, sometimes his followers leave me shaking my head.

[Art_from_Ark]

32. That is a sleazy, slimy tactic

It's NOT "campaign literature"! If it was campaign literature, it would have made it clear that's what it was. Instead, it was passed off as an

Official Democratic Primary Election Sample Ballot
City of Chicago - 13th Ward
Michael J. Madigan, ward committeeman
Marty Quinn, alderman

Election law permits you to take this sample ballot into the voting booth.

If it is not an official sample ballot, then it is a flat out-and-out lie meant to deceive voters.

And this primary has shown that even intelligent people can be deceived by sleazy tactics.

[mopinko]

33. come on now. this is cook county.

if that is as sleazy as it gets, then its a pretty good year for the good guys.

shouldnt the voter, at some point, have noticed that NONE of the races were contested? since they were only listing their pics.
and there is nothing wrong with calling it a sample ballot. it is a sample ballot. it is the common parlance for recommended candidates.

sorry, this is shaded language, but hardly dishonest.

[Art_from_Ark]

34. Hardly dishonest?

Tell me, do you think it's ethical for elected officials to send out "campaign literature" disguised as "official Democratic primary sample ballots"?

And I can say that there is such a thing as a sample ballot. I used to get them all the time when I voted absentee. But they mostly consisted of information on how to fill out the ballot. And the names of the "candidates" were "George Washington", "Thomas Jefferson", and "John Q. Public".

[mopinko]

37. those are the only "official""sample ballots"

that i have ever seen. have them in polling places, too.

this is very common parlance for such mail pieces.

like i said- if that mailer made it harder for you to vote for bernie, you are not a very informed voter. we do bear some responsibility for sorting out the claims that are made in such pieces.

[Aerows]

27. Wow, Art. You completely summed up what is happening.

Absolutely phenomenal post, Art. You really made me think. What has gone on during this primary is a travesty.

It CAN happen here, and it IS happening here.

[Art_from_Ark]

30. And to think that when I was growing up,

I was always reminded that we were so much better than the Soviet Union because we had free and fair elections...

[Bernin4U]

35. In my experience in the business world

...if there's a universal corporate motto, it's "Whatever we can get away with." Legality and morality are simply factors in the calculus.

Why would the party, and HRH herself, feel any need to reinvent this wheel?

Excellent OP!