Should We Petition Skinner to Close the Sanders Group?

[QC]

Posted without any commentary on my part just to get a sense of the members' take on the issue.

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[Kelvin Mace]

1. I would think it will be closed automatically next week

since expressing support for Sanders will be viewed as high treason.

[Ken Burch]

17. If it is closed, I'd like to see us open a critique and continuation group in its place

The idea would be to debrief and take a hard look at what did and did not work, plan strategy for whatever we do now, and lay out wh
at our future objectives should be.

[onecaliberal]

26. Why would you want to stay here and do that? They DONT want to hear it

[Cal33]

75. Just look at the results of the poll. There are 217 replies at this writing, and all of them are

for not closing. That's 100%. We want it open.

[LiberalElite]

39. Don't do that

here unless you like being continually alerted on and blocked. It should be obvious by now that this group is not the safe haven it is supposed to be. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

P.S. There IS intelligent life outside of DU.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

51. Take the blue pill.

[Miles Archer]

63. I don't see that happening.

You're basically not going to be allowed to even hint at Sanders as a Presidential nominee. Unless the "future objectives" have nothing to do with the Presidency, the group will be the target of non-stop alerts. While no one would get away with coming into a Sanders group and bashing Sanders, that doesn't mean they won't try, and I am assuming that would become more of a pain than it's worth for the admins. I could be wrong. I don't think so.

[Stevepol]

72. I like this idea: call it "Bernie's Revolution" forum.

This could add significantly to the political revolution. It would involve discussion of the many issues that became well-known during the primary because of Bernie's speeches and interviews. It would keep these hot button issues hot. It could involve other candidates who support or are running to promote and further these issues. There's no reason to say a word about Hillary and her allies except when they reveal their commitment to neo-liberal politics and policies that are doing so much damage to our country and the world.

[Ken Burch]

73. Excellent suggestion. n/t.

[Cal33]

74. Great idea. This might be part of the movement started with Bernie. I'm also all for

Elizabeth's movement. I hope the two will unite some day.

[Silentvoice]

77. CLINTON/SANDERS Ticket

Why can't Secretary Clinton just take Senator Bernie Sanders as her Runningmate? It's the wise thing to do. That ticket will just blow Donald Grumpy away like chaff. I will be happy to see a CLINTON/SANDERS Ticket.

[MrMickeysMom]

22. Then, why not Al Gore?

I'm sure now that his inconvenient truth is right next to Sanders.

[DhhD]

42. Gore is part of the established democratic party; an insider. DU is an Establishment.

Sanders is an outsider; someone opposed to triangulating conservatism.

Outsiders usually stop by a place called jack pine radicals.

[MrMickeysMom]

43. I'm familiar with JPR

I post there often enough.

What is funny about your post is the "establishment" part. When the system doesn't work for either party because they have both been taken over corporately, then who wants to be in the "established" political party? It's no longer a political party.... Yet, Americans somehow need to see an established allegiance to that?

I'd say the party needs to move, not us. Meanwhile, the pretenders here think they're still Democrats.

Pretty crazy.

[DhhD]

44. Its establishment is an independent democratic oligarchy with its own donors.

We support who the Oligarch tells us to support or it is announced early that we are gone by June 16th.

http://www.salon.com/2015/03/27/wall_streets_political_shakedown_well_stop_funding_dems_if_elizabeth_warren_wont_sit_down_and_shut_up/

Wall Street’s political shakedown: We’ll stop funding Dems if Elizabeth Warren
won’t sit down and shut up
Top banks consider cutting off Dems if the party won't rein in party progressives

more at link

[MrMickeysMom]

45. So, the banks, who control "the real economy" can play chicken with Warren on a string?

We're completely fucked with THAT one!

[DhhD]

47. Not if we work outside of triangulating conservatism.

There is democratic socialism that is not a collective of Ayn Rand's thinking and writings.

[totodeinhere]

48. I doubt if it will be closed. They did not close the Clinton group in 2008.

And if I read it correctly we can continue to voice support for Bernie's agenda as long as we also support the election of Clinton. And if Hillary Clinton can praise Bernie as she has then why can't we continue to do it as long as we support the election of our party's nominee?

[Kelvin Mace]

49. Yeah, unless Warren or Sanders is the VP

I'll be giving it a pass.

[swhisper1]

52. The hillary group will as well.we should open a downticket group

it would not be a conflict site at all and how many of us have any knowledge of our choices and what they stand for?

[RoccoR5955]

2. We should petition him to keep it open! n/t

[senz]

3. Why close it prematurely?

It's serving a purpose for now. It's helpful.

Why on earth?

[djean111]

4. Was the Hillary group ever closed? Just curious.

[QC]

5. No, but I really don't think anyone should use them as a model. n/t

[pangaia]

33. Why is it when I click on your user name nothing appears, while when clicking

on anyone else's user name, it goes to the info page,,whatever it is called?

I am really just curious, no agenda...

[QC]

34. I'm not sure about that.

A member of the Yellow Button Club asked Skinner the same thing in ATA, and I figured it was just because the poster in question couldn't imagine someone's transparency page not being visible.

I guess there's some kind of glitch.

[pangaia]

36. OK.. Thought maybe you were a spy or something. LOL!

[Yonnie3]

55. There's a way to see QC's journal etc.

Put QC in the site search box and press the search button. The first result is a link to the journal.
But shhh .... don't tell anyone.

[pangaia]

56. HA HA!!.. I won't tell.. ">)))

Actually, it's not important. I was just curious.

[-none]

65. The software has a problem with user names of only two letters.

It takes 3 or more to work properly.

[MrMickeysMom]

46. I agree...

Their representation is anything but democratic!

Giving the ole "nod" to Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, Bank of America!

[djean111]

7. IMO, as long as people are not talking about Hillary, there is no reason to

close the group. Unless Skinner is determined to wipe Bernie's name and presence off the face of DU, this is a good place to talk about what Bernie is doing, whatever he does. It's not like not having this group is going to make anyone into a Hillary supporter.

[swhisper1]

53. bernie is a democrat and as long as we dont bash Hillary, the movement is a valid topic

and has legs against Trump. As far as I know, this isnt DNC underground, it is for democrats be they liberal, progressive or 3rd way. Why would skinner wipe bernie's name from DU?

[emulatorloo]

6. Hell no.

[Warren Stupidity]

8. No.

This was, for me, never about this election. I never thought Sanders had a real chance of winning. I am delighted by how well he has done. For me it was and is about the potential to build a strong left faction inside the Demicratic Party, about a multi election process to seize control of the party, to elect democratic socialist democrats, re-new deal Democrats up and down the ballot, and to transform this country by doing so.

[2banon]

15. Indeed. One thing we need to really reflect hard on, is the Left ELITE sat on their collective hands

and essentially has done nothing really for decades to build a truly progressive left movement. and are being criticized today for essentially doing nothing of worth still.

It's time we take long hard look at the bourgeoise of the "Left" and understand they're too comfortable, and largely irrelevant this movement.

They do LOVE to interfere with strong progressive efforts , by co-opting at every turn, Occupy is a perfect example. That's just one. I've been observing this for the past two decades. I think we really need to look at this, and give a big finger call out on their complicity with the status quo and their mealy mouthed "opposition" token punditry.


It's just one thing anarchists continue to remind us of, but so many of us haven't quite given it the value of worth, including myself. Until now.

I'm starting to look at that criticism with a sharper eye, which I used to reject out of hand..

[LiberalArkie]

21. Indeed. They have their Pensions, their trust funds everything that a limousine Liberal needs.

One thing they do not want is increases in taxes or their capital gains touched. They do not want the tax code changed as they have to be able to write off the donations to the Met. They have to be able to have their foundations for a reason to go to Africa to check on the endangered animals, they have to be able to deduct the ocean cruses to check for plastic. It they are lucky in their giving they will not have to worry about paying anything in taxes that might go to those grubby people outside the townhouse.

[2banon]

23. yep, that's it in a nut shell.

Someone posted an interesting article by Thomas Frank a week or two ago. Not able to read beyond a few paragraphs, many other matters on my plate, but he presented quite an interesting and critical perspective on the subrosa of Women Micro-Entrepreneurship enterprise... worthy read and eye opening.

But I suppose you've read this piece or at least have studied it a lot more closely than I had. Sort of explains a great deal I hadn't considered before.

[LiberalArkie]

24. No, I haven't read it, but I will try to find it. I was just speaking about people I have known

growing up and in adulthood. I guess I should have thrown in "I'll pray for you" in there also. I was raised around people like that. My family was poor but all the kin folks were wealthy oil and timber people. So here we were, my parents trying to provide and an aunt or uncle or cousin stops by and wants to show us pictures of their Africa trip or the pictures they took at JFK's inaugural party or down at the Johnson ranch etc. They only people they would help or do anything for is people in their own class. They might be see at a charity event handing a sandwich to a poor person as long as a camera was there, but once the flash went off they were gone.

[2banon]

25. wow. first hand observations.. excellent education ..

on the Liberal "Elite"..

don't have the link.. at the ready. maybe if you google Thomas Frank/Micro-Entrepreneurs/Clinton Foundation ? or something to that effect. I think the article might have been published in the Atlantic, but again memory is failing on details

[klook]

68. Is this it?

http://harpers.org/blog/2016/02/nor-a-lender-be/

Interesting read about feel-goodism vs. actual social progress, one of Frank's recurring themes.

[2banon]

70. yes.. thanks

agree. eye opening perspective.. recommended read.

[onecaliberal]

27. They didn't sit on their hands, they know where their money comes from they supported that.

NOT the people.

[2banon]

32. Yes, true. I meant sitting on their hands in our struggle for genuine progressive campaigns

Chief Editors of the The Nation comes to mind. You know those with roots in progressive activism dating back to Chile in the early 70's and before then, but have really gotten too comfortable and thrown a lot of obstacles in our path for access and establishing "credibility" ..

I don't have time to elaborate on that at this moment, someday soon maybe I'll post a couple of reads that will clarify.. but I'll do it on the other site though.

See ya there?

[highprincipleswork]

9. Only close if Hillary's group closes as well.

[-none]

66. That won't happen.

The whole place is becoming a Hillary Group.

[highprincipleswork]

69. Perhaps that's why I'm rarely here anymore.

[MoonchildCA]

10. Can't we at least wait until the convention.

Nothing is official until then.

[Melissa G]

11. Been here a long time and I don't remember any presidential group closing. It just falls into disuse

when it is done. Maybe after a very long time of no posts then it closes.

[nenagh]

12. I like to read comments in the Bernie group...

It is just about all I want to read...

[QC]

13. Looks like we have a consensus! n/t

[grasswire]

14. NOO!!

There are still groups for other past candidates.

And there is no reason for it.

[Duval]

16. NO!

It's a democracy, right? Don't we have the right to read posters from Bernie's group as long as he is in the race?

[Hiraeth]

18. As long as he is a Democrat I see no need to shut it down.

[GreenPartyVoter]

38. Agreed. If he is a Democrat and is still 2orking to bring people into the party, then

the group should remain open.

[imagine2015]

19. It should remain open until the Democratic Party decides who to run for President

[Donkees]

20. What would happen to all the research in this group? Various topics that people took time to...

collect and verify.

[valerief]

28. I wouldn't care if the Hillary group was closed, though. nt

[napi21]

29. Absolutely not! I liked both candidates, but favored Bernie. When, one time,

I posed a question in the Hillary group and apparently pissed off one of the people that head that group and I was locked out! I was shocked and surprised. I even sent a note to the person who locked me out of the group and was told "we're pretty strict in this group when it comes to any criticism of Hillary. There are so many posts, I don't remember what you said."

If the Hillary group remains "so pure" in their requirements, then I suggest the Bernie threads be left alone. THEY aren't nearly as demanding that they can't discuss a criticism of their candidate once in a while without freaking out and slamming the door!

[cui bono]

41. The Bernie Group hosts are good about gently reminding people they are posting in the group first.

Then only ban when people don't respond to that.

The Hillary group hosts not so much. Complete opposite attitude.

.

[immoderate]

30. Should we close down the Lincoln Chafee and Elizabeth Warren Groups?

For instance.

--imm

[peace13]

31. Were you thinking of closing Kerry, Biden and the others as well?

Seems like a strange time to call this question.

[QC]

35. Autumn and I wanted to be able to show that there's is real demand for this group.

Clearly there is.

[peace13]

37. Ok

[merrily]

62. People having been posting OPs here every day.

Is there a reason this group has to show more demand than that, when other groups do not? For example, the most recent post in the Kucinich group was July 2015--and that was an OP noting not much posting was happening in that group.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1106194

We even still have a Lincoln Chafee group.

[cui bono]

40. No. Bernie has been and will continue to be a force in govt. He is our voice.

We need not talk about him and the presidency, but can continue to talk about him and his goal of reforming the Dem Party and our govt.

.

[sangfroid]

50. No

eom

[ReasonableToo]

54. No, he's been a hero of progressive Dems since before the primary

No reason to think that he won't continue to speak the truth. Truth should always be welcome and have a place.

If for no other reasons than he's speech against the Iraq war and his REAL and inspiring Mr.-Smith-goes-to-Washington filibuster are reason enough to open and keep open a Bernie group.

[Dont call me Shirley]

57. Hell to the NO!

[LWolf]

58. Why?

The groups for individual Democrats exist whether or not they are campaigning.

[KoKo]

59. Why Not? DU has had many Groups that were allowed to function--and Still Are:

Elizabeth Warren Group, John Kerry Group, Occupy Wall Street, Isreali/Palistine Group, The Gun Dungeon, Astrology Group, Loners, Foreign Affairs, Socialist Group, African-American Group, Populst Reform of the Democratic Party Group, Progressive Media Resources Group, Religions Groups, LBGT Activist Group and many other Social Issues Groups and other topics of Interest to Members of ""Democratic Undergound"

There's no reason a "Bernie Sanders Group" should not be able to be a part of DU. He is still a US Senator and news of Bernie will be welcome in the Bernie Sanders Group about those activities. Skinner has never asked a DU Group to be "Dismanded" as far as I've known in my many years here on the site.

[left-of-center2012]

60. Why ask that we be shut down?

"Oh, please do shut us out of the debate."

[QC]

61. See post 35. n/t

[stranger81]

64. Looks like it's closed by default in any event.

About half the posts here have been removed already. Discussion from points of view left of the DLC now appears verboten.

[-none]

67. ^^^This^^^

Dissent will not be tolerated on this newly reorganized liberal, Democratic web site.

[glinda]

71. no

[Lunabell]

76. Wait until the convention.

I myself am waiting until then...