Face It Sanders Fans, You’d Turn On Bernie In a Heartbeat If He Actually Won the White House

[Autumn]

This was posted elsewhere so I brought it here for discussion.

I have never seen Bernie as a Great Liberal Messiah. I just think he's the only one who addresses my concerns at this time, What say you fellow Bernie supporters?

http://thedailybanter.com/2015/09/face-it-sanders-fans-youd-turn-on-bernie-in-a-heartbeat-if-he-actually-won-the-white-house/

With all of this in mind it’s easy to see why Sanders has a legion of supporters for his 2016 presidential campaign — and why those supporters are largely the kind of people you’ve already unfriended on Facebook because they won’t shut the fuck up about how Bernie is the Great Liberal Messiah come to save us all. The Sanders fanatics are hands-down the most insufferably self-righteous among the politically motivated these days, proudly aiming hosannas in the direction of any word that tumbles out of their candidates’s mouth and touting each and every poll that shows him gaining ground as proof that America is “feeling the Bern” and turning its back on literally everything it’s voted for up to this point in its history. Sanders is a far better person than, say, a Ralph Nader — at the very least he’s running because he genuinely wants to do good and not simply to hear the sound of his own voice — but his supporters love him for the same reason the left loves anyone who forcefully speaks anti-establishment shibboleths: because they believe anything else to be hopelessly corrupt, the product of a broken system

.

[Demeter]

1. I'd say it was a complete misreading of the popular support for Bernie

and wishful thinking of a person or group that sees political defeat staring them in the face.

It is a sign of desperation.

We've had progressive candidates shot out from under us too often in the past 40 years to buy this line of push. It's not going to happen this time! When Obama did his reveal, and repudiated his base and threw us all under the bus, that was the last straw.

Not gonna get fooled again! as W says. Bernie is not capable of doing an Obama false-face campaign. And no, he can't fix everything, but he will fix more than anybody can imagine and he will have help across the nation.

We know what the problems are, we know who the opposition is. We've all had a thorough education. And we aren't going to be screwed over any more. It's either elections, or pitchforks, so the 1% Establishment types had better get out of the way.

[stillwaiting]

18. Bernie in the WH will give average Americans the strongest DEFENSE against..

... the perpetual onslaught we've experienced the past 3 to 4 decades. That is absolutely worth something. It's a HUGE improvement. Bernie will defend average Americans, the working class, the poor, and the middle class from legislation that will take from them while simultaneously giving more to the financial elite.

He is also the best candidate to BEGIN to mount an effective OFFENSE against the financial powers that have owned the game for the past few decades. I have little doubt that Bernie would tell the American people what they need to do if they want to see the changes he's campaigning on. And, I believe he would do so in effective ways that just might resonate with Americans, and I believe he would do it with enough frequency to keep the American people focused on doing what needs to be done. I have no faith that these things will happen with a few of our other candidates, and I have doubts that the other one would be as effective as Bernie (O'Malley).

I don't think Bernie can single handedly usher in a new progressive golden era. Neither does Bernie. But, he is the absolute BEST selection at BEGINNING to turn this country around. He will mount the strongest defense on behalf of average Americans, and he will mount the strongest offense on behalf of average Americans. That is the best thing I can hope for from Bernie (or anyone in the WH for that matter).

[fredamae]

51. Yes and one Big difference in How

he Defends us is to Give Us the Means to participate in (government) our Own Defense by giving us our seat at the table, again.

[haikugal]

22. YES!!!!!

[roguevalley]

61. what do i say about this? Fuck them. Hows that? :D

'haters gonna hate' (I saw a great image with that line that had a very effete highly dressed chubby man carrying a rolled umbrella doing the splits after leaping in the air. He stared at the camera with a disdainful look.) That's sort of how I think of that paragraph.

[roguevalley]

62. forget the thing they are pretending to say. Their point is attacking bernie supporters.

This tells me this is someone who doesn't support bernie, likes someone else and is venting on his supporters. Poor little whiner. Boo hoo.

[Enthusiast]

68. +1 an entire shit load.

[smokey nj]

2. The same things were said about President Obama's

supporters back in 2008.

[Demeter]

6. He rejected us, first!

Look under the bus, we're still there.

[HooptieWagon]

25. +1000

[merrily]

27. If I see similarities between this Dem primary and the 2008 Dem primary, I look for what those

two Dem primaries had in common.

[LiberalElite]

3. I'd say they don't know what the fk

they're talking about. They're just upset that we're not with THEIR candidate.

[Autumn]

17. Bingo.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

4. Nothing new there. Same old hippie bashing.

Caricatures of folks on the left as being surprised that a politician can't or won't deliver 'EVERYTHING THEY WANT!!!!'?

Come on, that strawman's so hackneyed, it should be wearing muttonchops.

As I commented under that thread, the left NEVER gets 'EVERYTHING IT WANTS!!!!!'. We're lucky if we can get some godawful poison pilled something we want every few decades, and we're well aware of how DC works.

Besides, Bernie has been PART of Congress for decades now. We're not 'projecting' onto a blank slate half term Congressman here. Bernie has a LONG record, and we KNOW he compromises. We've seen him compromise on the ACA. We saw him compromise on the omnibus crime act, and many many other bills with really crappy parts. But as he did with the ACA, he fights to make them BETTER, such as by including funding for community health clinics.

These delusions on the part of centrists that lefties are all naive head in the cloud types are so

And sure we'll keep making demands of Sanders in office, and chide him when he fails to live up. That's not 'turning on him'. That's recognizing exactly what they say we can't. That he's a human being, not some perfect saint. And every human being makes mistakes or does things that deserve criticism.

[Autumn]

15. You nailed it.

[merrily]

19. I am not now, nor have I ever been a hippie. So I call it punching left.

And, yes, the negative DU memes about the left began as predominantly false and have aged, and badly.

We're bad because we expect politicians to be perfect. (LMAO at that one.)

We're bad because we support Bernie, even though he isn't perfect.

And on and on. It's bizarre and transparent and utterly irrelevant to issues that matter.

I feel no need to address it beyond that.

[BlueJazz]

5. "because they believe anything else to be hopelessly corrupt, the product of a broken system"

Yep, that's exactly how I feel. The populace has, up to this point, voted in the most lying pack of Sociopaths I've ever seen.
Everything in these sick-ass politician's minds starts with "Me".

[Autumn]

13. The system is broken,

[eridani]

70. The system isn't broken--it's fixed. n/t

[djean111]

7. That's wishful think, is all that it is. Just Oscar throwing more spaghetti at the wall, to see if

it will stick.
The really funny part is the "rest of that story" - the answer is - so what, if that were true, though it is not true? Are they saying we should support someone that we do not trust to do the right thing at all? Are they saying - get behind the candidate who is bound to disappoint you! Get behind the candidate who espouses things like war!

Totally untrue, totally pointless drek.

[Autumn]

14. That's exactly what that silly OP is saying.

[marym625]

8. just more bullshit piled on bullshit.

This is just more bullshit because they can't attack Sanders. I don't ever recall an election in which supporters were attacked about everything. And it's just imagined. Nice way of saying, just more bullshit.

Now it's predicted bullshit based on more bullshit.

This is a game I'm unwilling to play. The level of asinine is above anything I've seen before.

You don't like a candidate? Talk about what has been done, or not done, by that candidate in votes, bills introduced, support of laws or fighting against unjust laws. None of the bullshit rhetoric "the 'fans' (another dig) are mean so, even though I agree with the candidate, I'm voting for someone else."

You like a candidate? Talk about what has been done, or not done, by that candidate in votes, bills introduced, support of laws or fighting against unjust laws. None of the bullshit rhetoric "the 'fans' (another dig) of a different candidate are mean so, even though I agree with the other candidate, I'm voting for this person."

[Autumn]

12. You are right. It's all about the supporters most articles they post on Bernie anymore is about

the supporters or "possible" voters who don't like him.

[marym625]

26. Now they're even dissing him because press releases weren't put out.

Forget his record. Forget that in 1972 he was fighting for equal rights for the LGBT community. Forget that in the early 80s he signed one of the first anti discrimination laws in the country as mayor of Burlington. Forget in 1996 he voted against DOMA and when it became law, he signed a brief as a friend of the court to overturn DOMA. Forget he supported and applauded Vermont's marriage equality law. That doesn't matter because his office didn't put out a press release. Forget he's the only candidate that has always, consistently fought for and has a record fighting for equal rights, unwavering support, that makes no difference. After all, there's no press release. And damn! Another candidate that stated emphatically until 2013 that marriage is between one man and one woman, marched in pride parades. Hypocrisy is acceptable as long as you eventually say the right thing.

I've been good up until now. I don't just talk the talk. I don't just "post on a message board" as I'm so often accused of doing by people here. I walk the walk. And I'm sick to death of the bullshit, the lies, the unending attacks on supporters, the rhetoric and the god damned, complete and total hypocrisy. Just fucking done with it.

[Autumn]

29. Sometimes we do get fucking done with it. But we keep on because we know what's at stake.

So they attack us, let them fucking attack us. They only do that because they can't do anything else. Let their rage consume themselves. Hey, I know what you do.

[marym625]

34. oh, I didn't mean I was done SUPPORTING Bernie.

(All caps because I'm not fanning him.) I meant I'm done allowing the bullshit to continue without calling it out.

I won't, however, give any ridiculous post a kick. I'll call out the bullshit by talking about Bernie Sanders and his great record. I'll call it out by talking about the truth. I'll call it out by pointing out how absolutely asinine, hypocritical and transparent it is to bitch about supporters. I'll call it out by pointing out they have nothing on Sanders so they, in their desperation, go after people who are working hard to help make this country great again and rid the government of the oligarchs and their paid shills.

There are assholes in every walk of life. But the blanket statements about supporters of Senator Bernie Sanders is just bullshit.

Thank you!

[Autumn]

37. That's the way to do it

[marym625]

38. just love you, Autumn

[Autumn]

40. Back atcha mary. For everything you do

[MisterP]

56. that's what they were trying to pull with the "it didn't matter if he walked with King" spiel

ironically that article's point that you have to do more than just join the marches is correct--but obscenely misused when you remember for a second Sanders's actual record; like on Tumblr when someone tells the 19-year-old suburbanites that "your half-remembered faddish academese written by some eccentric doesn't actually line up with my experience working with Third-World rape survivors" they'll just yell "whaddya want, a Great White Savior medal?!!1111" it doesn't matter what you've done, it doesn't matter if their target's gay/black/female/anything they claim to like, they're behind a bastion of righteousness

or when Jessica Valenti said that the suspension of the police's UVA case showed that the police discriminate against rape victims ...

rhetoric can make itself stronger by resisting facts

[marym625]

63. it's sad to me.

If Sanders, or anyone, just marched with MLK JR and organized sit ins and went to jail for civil disobedience 40 and 50 years ago, I would agree that it doesn't speak to now. But as you said, he has a great record of fighting for equal rights for everyone.

I've seen many politicians over the years march in Pride parades that go back to their house or Senate seat and vote against the LGBT community. Or, like in 2013 in Illinois, having just voted against marriage equality in the house, had the audacity a few weeks later to march in the Chicago pride parade. The Pride parades are just campaigning for some politicians, it has zero to do with solidarity. Unlike back in the day when civil rights marches could cost a politician the election.

I understand what BLM was talking about at NRN and I said at the time, both O'Malley and Sanders screwed up. But so did NRN. BLM did change the conversation, or minimally, amplified it. That needed to be done.

But now the dissing of supporters is just bullshit rhetoric meant to harm the candidate. And the dismissive baloney of a life of fighting is ridiculous.

[PowerToThePeople]

9. I do not think Bernie will turn third way

Bail out criminal bankers right away, drone us citizens and nearby innocent people in non-conflict areas of the world, and give massive handouts to the insurance corporations while trying to outsource more US jobs via neoliberal trade policies.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

21. And if he did, he would deserve to be 'under the bus'.

That's part and parcel of being about policies, not simply worshiping individual politicians.

[PowerToThePeople]

24. Yes. n/t

[Autumn]

44. If Bernie does those thing he deserves to be under the bus.

But Bernie won't, he has a track history and it's consistent. he has nmever had to evolve and he is not beholding to the corporations or banks.

[nxylas]

10. This one doesn't actually mention Ron Paul

But it's clearly the latest in a long line of articles making that false equivalence nonetheless.

[Autumn]

11. Well it does bring up Nader, there is that.

Last edited Sun Sep 13, 2015, 11:32 AM - Edit history (1)

[leftcoastmountains]

35. Hey I like Nader and always have.

I saw him speak at a local university here. He was amazing.
He made a big difference in auto safety. I don't think Bernie
would have any problem being compared to Ralph.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Nader

As for Barack Obama I was not surprised when he turned out to
be a little more conservative than what some would have liked.
I think a lot of hopes and dreams were projected onto him that weren't
there. I think a lot of times people see what they want to see and not
what is real.

Bernie is completely different. He lays out what he thinks and believes.
There's no guessing. It would be hard for someone to project onto him
their desires if it's not there. He is plain spoken. He is a rare politician.
And he might be able to get some of the things he wants done simply
because, from what I've read, people like him. He also warns over and over again
that the government is a big machine. There are three branches of government
and he will have to work within the confines and structure of our institutions.
People need to start voting their interests and not the other way around.

[Autumn]

39. I like and respect Nader too. He has done some great things and he had every right to run for

President. I blame a corrupt supreme court for Bush's tenure in the White House and the Democrats who stood silently by while it happened. Disclaimer, I supported Hillary until the very end in 2008, I never had any illusions about Obama and I happily voted for him twice because he was better than a republican. I voted for John Kerry because he was better than a republican and I gave him and Hillary a pass on their IWR vote because they were better than any republican.

I don't have that problem this time. Now there is Bernie, and he is better than many elected democrats and the best candidate running in the democratic field.

[MisterP]

53. the "Nader did Florida" point is not only admitted to be false, but basically implies that America's

problem is too much democracy!

(and of course they told us "vote primaries, not third-party" just to further corral us and let them torpedo said primaries)

[merrily]

20. I forgot when Nader promised not to run as a spoiler and then ran in the Dem primary.

That's what Democrats have been saying for 14 years Nader should have done, isn't it?

[daleanime]

16. By their standards I already have 'turned on Bernie'....

I know of at least a couple of issues where I disagree with my candidate, and I not afraid to say so. Which means in their eyes I've thrown Bernie under the bus.

That's a really narrow world view, makes it so rough to see the big picture.

[merrily]

23. No worries. If you didn't disagree with him, you'd be sanctifying him and utterly naive.

Get the picture?

It's not about reality or honesty or about making principled statements that are consistent with each other and therefore make some kind of sense when viewed collectively.

It's about toeing the party line and the party line is often about punching left. Please see Reply 19.

[daleanime]

31. Definitely....

I have no doubt that most, if not all, Bernie's voters get where I'm coming from. I can't say how great it is to have a candidate that I agree with 9 times out of 10 when I use to having one that maybe gets 3 or 4 out of 10.

That's a problem I could really get use to.

[merrily]

36. First, no one is going to agree with any candidate 100% on everything.

For one thing, politicians have to make compromises to get stuff done and/or to get the most votes they can, while message board posters and critics do not have to--and probably should not.

For another thing, we do not have infinite choices. Howard Zinn, Saul Alinsky, Mother Teresa, Mahatma Ghandi, Albert Einstein and the Dalai Lama, all rolled into one, is not running. We can choose among Chafee, Webb, O'Malley, Sanders and Hillary. Of those, I pick Sanders because I cannot pick any of the others, except O'Malley. And right now, Sanders comes closer to ticking all my boxes than does O'Malley, though I could certainly live happily with O'Malley as the nominee.

Not so with Hillary. http://www.democraticunderground.com/12777603

[MisterP]

57. they think everyone else thinks the way they do

Last edited Sun Sep 13, 2015, 02:42 PM - Edit history (1)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splitting_%28psychology%29

[winter is coming]

28. Ah, it's the old "messiah" talking point.

I often wonder if it's a case of projection, because usually the folks who indulge in this sort of argument seem unable to tolerate any criticism of their candidate.

[Autumn]

30. You know, should Hillary lose and it soaks in that Obama has done his two terms and is done

the wailing and gnashing of teeth will be deafening.

[Demeter]

32. It's already deafening

[Autumn]

42. I have noticed some Obama supporters don't support Hillary but they sure do hate Bernie

[Scootaloo]

33. if they keep sneering, their faces are gonna get stuck like that.

Imagine going through life looking like that.

[Autumn]

41. They already are. Shhh. Don't tell anyone.

[Maedhros]

65. Clinton/Baratheon 2016 [n/t]

[jeff47]

43. A lot of them are supporting Clinton because they claim to be "realists".

Their shtick is to claim they want liberal policies, but only right-of-center people can possibly win. They're the pragmatists who are the only ones who can possibly protect us from the Republicans.

Sanders winning would demonstrate that theirs was not the only path. And if there was another way, then spending the last 30 years being not-quite-as-bad was a mistake.

[merrily]

58. A lot of them support Clinton simply because she is the Party's choice.

Sometimes, I'll search DU for a poster's screen name plus Hillary or a poster's screen name plus Sanders, to try to get a context for a post by that poster that I am reading. It's amazing how many times the 2008 primary posts of that poster about Hillary are highly critical of her, to put it mildly, while the more recetn posts are supportive.

Sorry, I don't believe that many adults genuinely "evolve" all that much.

[villager]

45. The pushback is certainly the same as it's always been

n/t

[sadoldgirl]

46. Well, the OP has a point, which

I can accept. If all the Bernie supporters slink back
into their caves after the election, he certainly will
only be able to play defense.

This is the real question: will WE keep it up? If we
do, he can succeed to a better degree. So, as we all
have to realize, it is up to US to give him some
success. I for one will try.

Just be prepared for the attacks should he win:
"He is just another weak Carter." I can see that coming.

[Autumn]

47. We didn't slink back into our caves after Obama. He pushed his army aside,

Bernie won't do that, he knows our value is by his side.

[Enthusiast]

69. And it was the greatest army ever assembled.

[URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[sabrina 1]

48. There it is AGAIN! Lol! The 'Talking Point'! They cannot attack Bernie on the

issues, from the Left that is, and still PRETEND to be Left.

So, how to discredit someone with a record like his?

Some not so brilliant Thank Tank comes up with these memes rather than deal with issues, another thing that is very wrong with our system, that these 'opposition researchers' iow 'smear campaigners' actually exist at all.

When you see something repeated as often as the 'Bernie supporters are just HORRIBLE' meme has been you KNOW someone was paid to find SOMETHING, anything to try to stop Bernie's surge.

If you can't go after him on the issues and still retain any credibility, then maybe if 'we paint his supporters are fringe, cultlike, extremists etc, other people won't want to be a part of this Political Revolution'.

It's lame, and it always comes from the same basic sources, been watching them for years on different blogs, the CENTIRSTS/Third Wayers.

So silly, and it sure isn't stopping Bernie's continuing rise in the polls.

We'll have to see what they come up with next when their latest talking point fails.

I sure hope they spent a lot of that Corporate Money they get on this. The more they waste the better as far as I'm concerned.

[senz]

60. Well said.

All the attacks on Bernie's happy, hopeful supporters are way too orchestrated (especially the faux BLM attack that eventually fizzled) to be spontaneous or even sincere. It truly does smell like end-of-the-rope desperation on the part of the perps.

[historylovr]

49. I love the smell of desperation in the morning.

[fbc]

50. I doubt I'd be disappointed by a Bernie Sanders State of the Union address.

[MisterP]

52. and the moment anyone dares hide their swaggering bullying they run off, nose asnot,

screaming about "alert trolling"

[stage left]

54. I've never thought of Bernie Sanders as a Messiah either.

And I certainly don't worship him. At my age I'm way beyond hero worship. I'm suspicious of charisma. I don't want a hero. I want someone who speaks the truth and can't be bought, who says he will work for the good of the people of this country,all the people, and means it. A president who will work with the people to right the injustices in this country. Come to think of it, that is kind of heroic, isn't it?

[Catherina]

55. It's worse than impossible to take such idiotic critics seriously n/t

[senz]

59. I think they're jealous that we have a candidate who inspires genuine enthusiasm.

But my enthusiasm for Bernie is not hero-worship. It's simpler than that: he gives the plain, unvarnished truth an airing out that it hasn't had on the national stage for years. It is startling to hear a national figure state what we know to be true -- so startling that it shatters old paradigms and leaves everyone a little breathless. It's like watching deep encrusted bullshit break up and fall away. We hadn't realized how sick we were of bullshit. Bernie is the antidote to right-leaning MSM propaganda.

He's not glamorous, handsome, suave and socially adroit. Nor does he build himself up as any kind of savior. He doesn't pretend to be anything other than what he is. He doesn't promise that he can deliver all by himself. He needs, as he has stated over and over, for the American people to carry out a political revolution. He's showing how it can be done logically and legally.

And the American people are, increasingly, ready.

[Autumn]

64. Considering what we have been given to vote for going on decades now Bernie is a breath of

fresh air.

[artislife]

66. Basically, they want us to turn on their candidate

if they are in the WH. They don't really care about our emotional state, just who is in the WH.

[Maedhros]

67. There is a reason they only post this kind of bullshit inside the confines

of a protected group - they are afraid of having a real discussion about it, and want to throw mud without rebuttal.

Cowards.

[jfern]

71. I think most Bernie supporters understand

that he's not perfect, and the US has 3 branches of government.