Raise your hand if you would EVER cast a vote for President based on being in the same corner of a

[merrily]

Last edited Fri Sep 25, 2015, 07:45 AM - Edit history (1)

map of the US.* I would not.

I think anyone who says he or she chooses a President based on geography is a fool or a liar. And the "pundits" and commentators who seek to explain away Sanders's strong lead--in a purple state, no less--based on the proximity of NH to Vermont are, IMO, both fools and liars. They know better.



* A favorite son or daughter of your own state is a different issue than a candidate from a neighboring state.

[LiberalElite]

1. I never thought about it before but -

OF COURSE that's bullshit. By that logic no one on the East Coast would have voted for Reagan from California. WHY have we been falling for that all these years????

[merrily]

3. Brainwashing? Learned Helplessness? Insufficient cynicism about our institutions, like

Party, government and media?

Look for paradigms and flip them. Or at least, lift up a corner and check to see if anything is crawling underneath.

[Erich Bloodaxe BSN]

2. Nope.

I don't even do the 'favoured son' nonsense. My state has it's share of idiots, just like every other state. You vote for the person who will create positive change, the one you think will create the best positive change or the most positive change.

[merrily]

5. I would give credence to favorite son or daughter bit because even a dog knows not to...

Well, you know the rest. Even though Kerry had pretty much ceased living in Massachusetts by 2004, I figured he would not shaft Massachusetts if he were President.

[djean111]

7. Again, I live in Florida. Most of our Dem politicians are Third Way - New Democrat Coalition -

and Debbie Wasserman-DINO is leader of the pack and has no problem with crapping on Florida. And the United States, for that matter. So we are coming from different directions (literally and figuratively ) on this.

[merrily]

8. Most Democrats in office today at all levels are New Democrats.

Boston is the bluest part of what is supposed to be the bluest state (because it was the only state that went for McGovern, including his home state) and Boston went heavily for Hillary in 2008. She had endorsements from most of the Democratic politicians--at least those who did not cross over and endorse McCain (ex-office holders, not incumbents).

That is one of the reasons Bernie's messages are so important. The DLC aimed at taking over the Party from within and it succeeded.

[djean111]

4. Nope. That is silly. I don't even care where a politician is from, really.

Plus - I live in Florida. Home of Debbie Wasserman-DINO. There are very few "favorite sons" that I can see - maybe Betty Castor. Most of the rest are DINOs, and this has been the plan all along.
But - no, i do not vote on geography or gender, and there is nothing in a candidate's personal life that would change my mind on the issues.

Damn. Just noticed that my "i" key somehow does not always make it to capital letter status. Please consider this my tribute to archy and mehitabel. If you have never heard of Don Marquis' creation, I recommend this as an introduction - it describes our current situation in this country (and in other countries) perfectly. It is dark, quick reading. Maybe more dark than most of his work, but truth hits home, and he addresses the same inequalities in 1935 that we are living with today.

http://donmarquis.com/reading-room/big-bad-wolf/

[merrily]

6. Well, apparently people who live in NH and, like Iowans, are known to take primaries very seriously,

are very different from other voters. Or so the TV commentators and pundits and the Democratic establishment would like us to believe.

[merrily]

9. Forgot to mention:

http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/09/24/bernie-sanders-eclipses-hillary-clinton-in-new-hampshire-poll/?_r=0

http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/24/politics/new-hampshire-2016-democratic-primary-hillary-clinton/index.html (Hillary trails Sanders in NH, even if Biden is factored out of the poll.)

[HereSince1628]

10. Honestly, I think geography often constrains exposure to experience

And certainly that impacts familiarity, which is an important component in the popularity contest of early campaigns.

I live in southern WI, I don't really pay much attention to northern WI. I couldn't name the mayors of larger cities there.

Most people here in WI can't name the governors of the New England states, or the US senators, by party, who come from there.

I do know that I know Scott Walker much better than most people outside WI, and Walker failed in his presidential big by being just the guy we here in WI know.


Likewise urban and rural, coastal and midlands economies and communities are different and oreint differently in their desires, those regional things probably influence choices for national political office

[SoapBox]

11. No.

And that's about all I have to say.

[carolinayellowdog]

12. EVER? Well, yes, all other things being equal. But they never are.

I like O'Malley"s accent and voice better than Hillary's or Bernie's, which surely has to do with regional bias as a Virginian. (Like his looks and age too but not gonna vote for him for those things either.) If there were absolutely no other distinguishing traits that made one better than the other two, well Maryland has never had a president so "it's her turn" could be applied to a state as well as a candidate.

But ALL OTHER THINGS ARE NEVER EQUAL; he's uninspiring as a speaker and while preferable to Clinton on substance doesn't come close to Sanders in terms of ability to articulate a message and galvanize the electorate. So I will vote for Bernie in the primary while thinking O'Malley might be a good running mate.

[merrily]

13. I moved to Massachusetts from New York. Trust me: Sanders' accent is not music to the ears of

people in this corner of the US map, not Vermont, not NH and not Massachusetts. Old school Brooklyn is not even music to the ears of a New Yorker.

But, a lyric from a Sanders' rap song says something like, "Ya gotta admit that accent's kinda bad ass."

[carolinayellowdog]

14. Bush was so awful, and Obama so perfect, re accent/voice, that any successor will be in between

Now that Obama is a lame duck and no one here fights about him much, I'm appreciating some of the traits that were so positive about him regardless of policy issues. Bush's fake Texas accent was a hundred times more annoying than any real one I ever heard; plus the smirky tone of his voice made me run for the remote whenever he appeared on TV. Whereas Obama's Hawaiian-raised-by-Kansans-lived-internationally-ended-up-in-Chicago sound is so generically American, so everywhere-and-nowhere, that he makes a great spokesman for the nation. Plus the tone of his voice is reassuring and comforting even if what he says isn't always.

I am a big fan of Elizabeth Warren, whose Oklahoma-to-New England trajectory makes her equally devoid of an identifiable regional accent. She sounds every bit as generically American as Obama. Hillary, OTOH, despite living all over the place, still has what is to me an extremely grating regional accent with the flat soft a's and horribly harsh r's of Chicagoland. And Bernie, despite all those years in Vermont, sounds Brooklyn through and through. Not as obnoxious as the Hillary accent but another case where I think-- shouldn't any well educated person who has spent decades away from their home town have lost (at least most of) the regional accent by now? Still, his is kinda cute.

O'Malley and Biden both have an identifiable mid-Atlantic accent but that is more musical to my ears than Chicago or Brooklyn or Texas. I guess on the R side, Rubio is the most generically American sounding. Despite being from the same area, Huckabee sounds much more rednecky than Bill Clinton ever did. Few people consciously think about this kind of superficial stuff, but I think it influences us subliminally a lot. Maybe Bernie's Brooklynese adds to the sense of authenticity.

[merrily]

16. I am not sure I am comfortable with the idea of one American accent. For example, JFK had a strong

accent and so did LBJ, despite years in D.C. for both of them.

However, believe it or not, Sanders Brooklyn accent used to be much more pronounced than it is now. So, he did lose some of it.

[carolinayellowdog]

17. VA now has probably less clearcut local accents...

in prominent politicians than almost any other state, so maybe that colors my attitudes. Happened upon a gun control rally early this month on Capitol Hill and heard both Warner and Kaine speak-- two better examples of "everywhere-and-nowhere" would be hard to find. McAuliffe now sounds less upstate NY than he used to, as well. It's not just that all three are "come-heres" but they now all sound like they are from nowhere in particular. McDonnell OTOH sounds pretty much like me, a native, so I was appalled that the genteel Virginia accent ended up being attached to a convicted felon

I agree with you about Kennedy and Johnson. A real old-fashioned New England or Texas accent (think Ann Richards or Molly Ivins) can be very charming. I just spent several weeks in Boston last summer, first visit in almost 25 years, and the local accent seemed to have receded tremendously since the early 90s. My brother who has lived there for decades says it's due to a great influx of people from elsewhere.

[merrily]

19. My point about Johnson and Kennedy is not necessarily that their accents were charming. My guess is

that many at the time found one or both accents comical and/or jarring. However, they were both nonetheless American accents.

[Jim Lane]

15. At this early stage, proximity IS relevant because it affects name recognition

I'm sure that, before any campaigning started, Democrats in New Hampshire were more likely to know about Bernie Sanders than were Democrats in Nevada. As a result, one of Hillary Clinton's big national advantages, her higher name recognition, was less powerful in New Hampshire than elsewhere.

By the time New Hampshire votes, however, the geography factor will be virtually meaningless. Those unfortunate folks in New Hampshire will be far more familiar with the candidates than some of them want to be.

[merrily]

20. Name recognition is revelant.

However, that was not my question. My very thinly disguised point was that the good people of New Hampshire are not choosing Bernie over Hillary because of geography (or, for that matter, because of name recognition).

Sanders' success there is being brushed away because New Hampshire happens to be near Vermont. I don't think people in New Hampshire looked at Hillary and Bernie and thought to themselves, "Let's see. Which is closer to me, Upstate NY or Vermont?" I think they're choosing Bernie for reasons that have nothing to do with geographical proximity.

BTW, nice to see you again.

[Jim Lane]

21. I agree with you that virtually no voters deliberately choose candidates who are near them.

You write:

I don't think people in New Hampshire looked at Hillary and Bernie and thought to themselves, "Let's see. Which is closer to me, Upstate NY or Vermont?" I think they're choosing Bernie for reasons that have nothing to do with geographical proximity.

I agree with the first sentence. Because of the name recognition factor, though, I disagree with the second.

The suggestion that proximity is helpful isn't just something being concocted now to deprecate Sanders. It's been mentioned in other years, such as when Romney won the New Hampshire primary.

Of course, anyone tempted to put too much emphasis on it should remember that proximity was also supposed to give Walker a big leg up in the Iowa caucuses. It was an advantage for him... right up until it wasn't.

[merrily]

22. Hillary BEGAN this primary with 95% name recognition. I bet her name recognition is higher in New

Hampshire than Sanders was when he overtook her in the polls.

[Jim Lane]

23. Hillary's name recognition is one reason I'd say she's still the favorite to win the nomination

Name recognition isn't everything, fortunately, but it is a factor.

[Enthusiast]

18. I don't play that game.

[cui bono]

24. Seriously, my state borders Arizona!

I saw that meme earlier by someone who has a sig line implying that when Bernie is the Democratic nominee there won't be a Dem on the ballot. No surprise there.

They really have to reach so far these days... I hope they stretch out first to avoid injury.

[merrily]

25. Yes, stretching first is extremely important.