Bernie Sanders, Democratic Socialist Capitalist

[n2doc]

In last week’s Democratic Party debate, Bernie Sanders stuck up for the idea that Americans are prepared to elect a democratic socialist, which is how he describes himself. “We’re gonna win,” he said, when the moderator, Anderson Cooper, pressed him on his electability under any kind of socialist label.

This led Hillary Rodham Clinton to defend capitalism, saying, “We would be making a grave mistake to turn our backs on what built the greatest middle class in history,” though she allowed the need to “rein in the excesses of capitalism.”

The weirdest thing about this fight is that Mr. Sanders, a Vermont senator, is not really a socialist. Or at least, if he is a socialist, he is also, at the same time, a capitalist.

“I think Bernie Sanders’s use of the word ‘socialism’ is causing much more confusion than it is adding value,” said Lane Kenworthy, a professor of sociology at the University of California at San Diego. Mr. Kenworthy, who recently wrote a book called “Social Democratic America” and thinks about these sorts of things for a living, offered a suggestion: “He is, if you want to put it this way, a democratic socialist capitalist.”

Ugh. Do we have to put it that way? In addition to being a mouthful, that still seems as if it’s going to confuse a lot of people.

After all, Mr. Sanders does not want to nationalize the steel mills or the auto companies or even the banks. Like Mrs. Clinton, he believes in a mixed economy, where capitalist institutions are mediated through taxes and regulation. He just wants more taxes and more regulation than Mrs. Clinton does. He certainly seems like a regular Democrat, only more so.

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http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/20/upshot/bernie-sanders-democratic-socialist-capitalist.html?_r=1

[SoapBox]

1. Very interesting read...

In light of the nastiness that is slung about when "socialist" is used (personally, capitalist is a very dirty word in my book).

"“It’s not socialism, it’s social democracy, which is a big difference,” said Mike Konczal, an economic policy expert at the left-wing Roosevelt Institute."

[n2doc]

2. The tag "socialist" unfortunately is not doing Bernie any favors

I wish he would come out and say "I am the same politically (domestically) as FDR and LBJ and HST. If I'm a socialist, then so were the giants of the modern Democratic Party!"

[Cheese Sandwich]

5. But that's what makes him huge

Bernie uses socialism the same way Popeye uses spinach.

Socialism is what gives Bernie that special strength and clarity of message. There's a reason why the liberal wing of the party is dying slowly for the past 40 years.

The reason is because you can't serve two masters. You can not at the same time serve the working class on one hand but the billionaires and corporations on the other hand. Capitalism is a cancer.

If the New Deal was the solution, then we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. The New Deal programs, Great Society, welfare programs etc, while all those things were good attempts, history shows ultimately those things were not enough to contain the capitalist cancer. It was a great try but it failed and the proof of that is 100 years later we're back fighting the same battles again.

We have to go further and kill the cancer all the way to the root. That's socialism. Otherwise it grows back. We need to make structural changes in the way the economy works. Socialism is more than just safety net programs and public services. It's also about making these changes at the root.

I do think Bernie understands that is what makes him different from Clinton and the liberal democrats. But he could do a better job of explaining it. Bernie should never "sell out" on that point because that is what has brought him this far, but also just because he if wants to win he has to draw a contrast with Clinton. If socialism is just FDR programs, then we lose because Clinton can re-brand herself into an FDR Democrat overnight, so can Biden, O'Malley etc.

[deutsey]

3. Bernie is a Democratic Socialist

Democratic socialists believe that both the economy and society should be run democratically—to meet public needs, not to make profits for a few. To achieve a more just society, many structures of our government and economy must be radically transformed through greater economic and social democracy so that ordinary Americans can participate in the many decisions that affect our lives.

http://www.dsausa.org/what_is_democratic_socialism

Like most Americans, Josh Barro is apparently very ignorant about socialism in America (or he's being disingenuous).

Prior to WWI, socialism was making big gains in American politics, which is why the first Red Scare/Palmer Raids were launched to quash it.

A lot of the ideas advocated by socialists were used in the New Deal, which is why the Right hates the New Deal so much and launched a second Red Scare/McCarthyism in the '40s/'50s along with COINTELPRO in the '50s-'70s. Despite these efforts, the infamous "Powell Memo" in the early '70s was in reaction to "the American economic system" being "under broad attack" from the popular socialist tenets of the Left.

The Right has been wildly successful

[Cheese Sandwich]

4. I think he's pretty real. His policies are liberal or progressive

But it's informed by a democratic socialist background, which he definitely has. He comes from that tradition.

I think maybe that's one thing causing a lot of confusion.

Maybe people think that if you're a socialist that means you have to push for things that are impossible right now.

Like he's not calling to nationalize Exxon, so therefore he's not a "real" socialist. That's not quite right. Socialists can support moderate progressive policies to help people.

In fact, I even know some people who consider themselves solid communists, literally card carrying members, and they are supporting Hillary Clinton. There's not any reason why someone can't have one big political vision but still support very modest political reforms that are actually achievable.

I hear a lot of calls coming from liberals wanting for Bernie to water down the definition of socialism so it just means FDR style stuff and that's it. It's on DU a lot. Thom Hartmann says that stuff too.

I for one am hoping Bernie does not do that. He can find a way to present a real honest socialist view without watering it down to the point of making it meaningless.

That would really be his best shot of actually winning. Because that will draw a sharp contrast with Hillary Clinton on the issue of core principles, what is the governing philosophy.