BuzzFeed News: Pete Buttigieg supports religious exemptions for vaccines if herd immunity exists.

[TheBlackAdder]

.

I shit you not:

Link to tweet

"The law of the land for more than a century has been that states may enforce mandatory vaccination for public safety to prevent the spread of a dangerous disease. Pete does support some exceptions, except during a public health emergency to prevent an outbreak," a spokesperson for the South Bend, Indiana, mayor told BuzzFeed News.

In particular, Buttigieg believes exemptions are appropriate for people who can't be vaccinated for medical reasons. Personal belief and religious exemptions should only be allowed in states that aren't facing a public health crisis and where herd immunity rates of vaccination are maintained.

"These exemptions include medical exemptions in all cases (as in cases where it is unsafe for the individual to get vaccinated), and personal/religious exemptions if states can maintain local herd immunity and there is no public health crisis," the spokesperson said.

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/claudiakoerner/2020-presidential-candidates-vaccines-measles-health?bftwnews&utm_term=4ldqpgc#4ldqpgc

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[ecstatic]

1. It's not like he's breaking precedent. Those exemptions have always

been allowed.

[TheBlackAdder]

3. There is no way to guarantee herd immunity as people travel, relocate, attend college, etc.

[crazytown]

5. The Jahova Witnesses have a water tight case

or should I said a blood tight case. They’d rather die on the table than take a needle.

[TheBlackAdder]

8. Yet their dying on the table could cause others to join them.

[Collimator]

13. Jehovah's Witnesses will not accept blood transfusions. . .

Because they believe that a person's soul is literally present in their blood. Artificial blood substitutes have been used during surgeries and they will accept that form of medical care. Needles in general are not an issue for them. To be honest, however, I do not know their stance on vaccinations.

[Andy823]

29. Who told you that?

The witnesses used to believe blood transfusions were OK, they had no problem with it. Then a new leader decided that the Bible said "NO BLOOD", because of a scripture about bleeding the animals the were killed and don't drink the "animals" blood. Later on the started changing things by saying certain fractions were OK. Over the years it was pretty much ok to take any fractions of blood, but no transfusion, which is like saying you can eat all the ingredients of a cake, separately, but you can eat the cake that is made out of all those ingredients.

I have never heard that they think the "soul" is present in their blood. As for vaccinations they have no problem with them.

[Collimator]

39. My memory may not be very clear.

And I admit that I did not do a quick internet search before I wrote my post. However, when I was a teenager, I attended some JW meetings and received their Watchtower publication. I also purchased and made use of a JW Bible for many years.

What I recall reading is that blood and soul were somehow equated and there was the usual collection of Bible verses supporting that point of view. Again, this was many years ago, but I do have a recollection that the soul/blood connection is why they did not approve of blood transmissions.

I think that the reason I remember that aspect of their beliefs is because my life was saved by a total blood transfusion when I was born. Because of that, my parents threw away many of the Watchtower booklets that arrived in the mail before I even got to see them. As you can imagine, they were not pleased when I was attending meetings at the Kingdom Hall.

[radical noodle]

30. The Jehovah Witnesses DO vaccinate

Christian Scientists do not normally, although I know many who did vaccinate their kids even though the church says not to do so.

[susanna]

41. I have been thinking this, too...

went back through my files for my vaccination records (we're talking 1960s - 1980s, folks) and the religious exemption is there, in stark relief. People could always refuse being vaxxed on those grounds. Nothing new.

I think Mayor Pete might not really be cognizant that the 'religious' loophole is what allowed the current destabilization of herd immunity in so many communities around the country.

[LonePirate]

2. Unless a qualified medical doctor says the vaccine will harm you, there should be no exemptions.

[TheBlackAdder]

6. But then like-minded doctors, or religiously motivated ones would write exemptions for others.

.

People will swiftly find out which doctors are writing the exemptions and use them to bypass vaccinations.

.

[ecstatic]

7. A better approach might be for schools to require it with no exceptions, but a general

state mandated requirement seems a little over the top. We're not a dictatorship yet...

[TheBlackAdder]

19. That sounds a little libertarian, since there are other mandated innoculations required for children

Comparing additional vaccine requirements to a Dictatorship is a little over the top.

[marylandblue]

4. I don't like it, but there is a certain logic to it.

[hlthe2b]

9. That is a very stupid proposal, sorry Pete. You clearly DON'T understand public health,

and that one doesn't get to monitor "herd immunity" continuously and in real time... One monitors vaccination rates, which given population changes are never static. Even then, it is even more complicated, given no vaccine is 100% effective. With measles, ALL it takes is one infected person on a plane or crowded event.

I know he's not a "medically-trained" person, but damn. Some smart advisor needs to get to him and quickly.

[leftofcool]

12. These exemptions have been on the books in all 50 States for decades

[hlthe2b]

15. Ha.. i am so well aware of that having had to deal with them for decades. But defending them with

this ridiculous proposal--that shows a total lack of understanding of public health and vaccine-preventable disease control when we are at historically high levels of measles is so stupid--at the very time that states are cracking down on these frequently abused exemptions. Of course, most states will continue to grant some form of religious exemption, but they are now gaining ground in the absolutely bastardized practice of "philosophical" and "personal" exemptions. We hardly need such a ridiculous statement to push us back in the opposite direction.

[leftofcool]

16. He isn't proposing anything that is not already a law.

The law here in Kentucky is that the Amish don't have to vaccinate if they choose not to. Do you think Mayor Pete can change that? Nope, he can't.

[hlthe2b]

18. Suggesting we can monitor herd immunity for decisions on who to vaccinate or not

in real time and as the only determinant--with the issuance of exemptions out of convenience and enabling of their superstitions re: vaccinations is nuts.

Perhaps some good Public Health Epidemiologists and ID doctors can sit him down and educate him.

[leftofcool]

24. This is already being done in some States

[hlthe2b]

26. I work in the field, have been singularly responsible in prior employment. So, you are not educating

I did have to deal with ridiculous claims about poorly masked personal exemptions presented as religious. In some States they have to discuss their beliefs that run counter or provide religious leadership documentation of the conflict with religious beliefs and practices. That alone has dramatically decreased such attempts to assert a religious conflict that does not exist where the person might have thought it did. I saw that happen with documentation provided from Christian Scientists, LDS church in Salt Lake City and even a Mennonite offshoot--none which officially opposed vaccination.

Disallowing philosophical exemptions and restricting religious exemptions to those willing to complete the least onerous of "hoops" to document such an honestly held religious belief has been shown in at least two states that I know of to dramatically increase vaccination rates and in at least one of those states, the courts fully upheld such policies--all the way to the State Supreme Court.

Granting such an exemption cannot be an on-off process dependant on establishing a level of herd immunity, which is imprecise at best, can be overcome with a single infected individual with something like measles in a public event or at a special setting such as one with many immunosuppressed individuals.

Limiting such exemptions, keeping track of who has them (at least in school-aged children) so that they can be excluded or isolated at home in the event of ongoing transmission is what needs to happen. Not arbitrarily opening up such exemptions if some politico deems the risk is low and herd immunity is sufficiently "high"

[wellst0nev0ter]

27. Yeah, no

https://www.healio.com/infectious-disease/vaccine-preventable-diseases/news/online/%7B02dd4970-1c21-47b4-a11e-27b8b56916b0%7D/vaccination-of-amish-limited-2014-ohio-measles-outbreak

Members of a mostly unvaccinated Amish community in Ohio helped limit the spread of the largest measles outbreak in the United States in more than 2 decades by eschewing tradition and getting vaccinated by the thousands, according to a new report.

The Amish population at the heart of the 2014 measles outbreak that infected hundreds of people across nine Ohio counties was less opposed to vaccination than Amish communities have been in the past, researchers wrote in the New England Journal of Medicine.

[radical noodle]

31. Those exemptions and rules normally worked in the past

It's this vaccination phobia stirred by the anti-vaxxers that caused the problems.

[msongs]

10. religion first, public welfare second nt

[Eugene]

11. Religious Objections to the Measles Vaccine? Get the Shots, Faith Leaders Say

Source: New York Times

Religious Objections to the Measles Vaccine? Get the Shots, Faith Leaders Say

Devout parents who are worried about vaccines often object to ingredients from pigs or fetuses. But the leaders of major faiths have examined these fears and still vigorously endorse vaccination.

By Donald G. McNeil Jr.
April 26, 2019

-snip-

Vaccines, the activists say, contain ingredients made from pigs, dogs, monkeys and aborted fetuses. Indeed, most of those assertions are based in fact. Ingredient lists published by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the Institute for Vaccine Safety at Johns Hopkins show that vaccines may contain these elements (although any residual DNA is present only at the parts-per-million level).

Nonetheless, vaccination is endorsed by top Jewish and Islamic scholars, and by the Vatican. Religious authorities have meticulously studied how vaccines are made and what is in them, and still have ruled that they do not violate Jewish, Islamic or Catholic law.

-snip-

Read more: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/26/health/measles-vaccination-jews-muslims-catholics.html

[leftofcool]

14. Pete is correct. These are the laws

[TheBlackAdder]

17. While the current law, many states, such as NJ & NY, are reevaluating religious exemptions.

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Retaining religious exemptions is a more conservative approach, which is challenged by recent revelations.

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[SunSeeker]

20. Not good. There shoild be no exception for religious beliefs.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

21. I think this is a very sensible approach. n/t

[LongtimeAZDem]

22. Anyone wishing a religious exemption to vaccination should have to provide

scientific proof of the existence of their deity.

[ecstatic]

28. lol! nt

[dalton99a]

35. .

[BlueFlorida]

23. Extremely bad idea nt

[NYMinute]

25. This is terrible

It puts people's lives at risk.

The ONLY exemption should be severe allergy to the vaccine or its ingredients.

[radical noodle]

32. There are perfectly valid medical reasons

for not getting the vaccines that aren't allergies.

[NYMinute]

44. There are none except

allergies and severe immunodeficiency. Maybe you can add someone who has already had measles. NONE OTHER.

[radical noodle]

45. Yes, immunodeficiency is what I had in mind

or children being treated for things like cancer who may just have temporary difficulties with their immune systems.

BTW, I DID have my daughter vaccinated with the available vaccines of the time, as I was when I was a kid. I'm old enough to have seen the first polio vaccines and have actually had measles, rubella, mumps and chickenpox before those vaccines were available and know they're nothing to fool around with.

[RockRaven]

33. The fact that this position aligns somewhat w/ existing laws/rules does not make it good or rational

Jesus Christ, appeal to authority much?

Religious beliefs have no place in a determination of public policy *being made on the basis of evidence*.

Do we want evidence-based public policies when it comes to vaccines or not? Answer that question first.

Then keep your answer in mind and ask yourself if you welcome ANY (and truly AAAA-NNNN-YYYY, for these people will push all the envelopes you can imagine) random *allegedly*-religious excuse to ignore that policy. If so, get ready for your life to represent a bad time playing The Oregon Trail.

[catchnrelease]

34. From the buzzfeed article:

After this article was published, the campaign added in a "clarifying statement" early Wednesday that Buttigieg only supported medical exemptions to vaccinations.

"Pete believes vaccines are safe and effective and are necessary to maintaining public health," a spokesman said. "There is no evidence that vaccines are unsafe, and he believes children should be immunized to protect their health. He is aware that in most states the law provides for some kinds of exemptions. He believes only medical exemptions should be allowed."

[RandySF]

37. That sounds nothing like his quote.

If he was correctly quoted.

[marylandblue]

40. The original quote came from a spokesperson, not Pete himself,

so maybe the spokesperson was wrong or confused.

[RandySF]

36. I said that I would raise money for him if ran for other office

but this gives me pause.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

38. According to Buzzfeed, the campaign has added a "clarifying statement":

"He is aware that in most states the law provides for some kinds of exemptions. He believes only medical exemptions should be allowed."

[johannsyah]

42. not sure

but I think Pete needs to hire a better spokesperson

[hlthe2b]

43. Important: Mayor Pete has cleaned this up, saying MEDICAL EXEMPTIONS ONLY

Link to tweet

Good on ya, Mayor

Well, that didn't take long. @PeteButtigieg issued a "clarifying statement" saying medical exemptions only.