Bernie Sanders uses gentrification in Greenville to make national political point again

[Uncle Joe]

(snip)

The campaign video with footage from the visit includes local activists Stacey Mills, Rashida Jeffers-Campbell, Jalen Elrod and Traci Fant.

The four spoke of how historically black communities in Greenville are not only losing longtime residents but also a culture built over the course of generations before re-urbanization by the privileged who once fled for the suburbs.

"When you look at houses that are vacant or houses that are blighted, you see brick and mortar, but you don't see the community where kids would play," said Mills, pastor of Mountain View Baptist Church, which bought 25 lots on Temple and Cagle streets for affordable housing. "Here, you've got families watching out for one another."

(snip)

He suggested a housing trust fund, which the city has established, along with rent control policies and what's known as "inclusionary zoning," which requires developers to include affordable housing as part of new developments.

(snip)

https://www.greenvilleonline.com/story/news/local/south-carolina/2019/05/04/bernie-sanders-twitter-video-greenville-sc-gentrification/1103837001/

and

Link to tweet

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

1. Good for Bernie... AGAIN!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[SMC22307]

61. Do you happen to know what other candidates...

address gentrification as much as Sanders? I'm guessing Buttigieg considering his mayoral experience in South Bend, like Bernie's in Burlington.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

65. It wouldn't surprise me.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[George II]

80. With all the issues in America these days, dwelling on "gentrification" at this point....

....is puzzling. But, what has happened with respect to gentrification in Burlington, Vermont?

[SMC22307]

83. Trying to stop black families from being pushed out of communities...

they've been loyal to for decades is "puzzling" to you? That's puzzling to me.

[George II]

123. That's not "gentrification".

[SMC22307]

129. The hell it isn't.

I miss the old 14th street. And Chinatown is now a vanilla playground.

The Reinvention of 14th Street: A History

...

“[Anthony Williams] pushed for the white people to come,” says David Brown, who grew up in a rowhouse on Corcoran Street near Logan Circle. “I’m still not used to the new 14th Street.”

Brown works at Crown Pawnbrokers, just south of S—one of the rare 14th Street businesses in existence since before the riots. But he doesn’t live in the neighborhood anymore. In 1971, he says, his landlords put his house on the market for $17,000. When he tried to buy it, “they wanted a $10,000 down payment”—nearly 60 percent of the list price­—a tactic he believes was meant to push out his African-American family. He bought a house for $34,000 at 11th and Girard instead, with only 10 percent down. “It hurts me when I talk about that part of it,” Brown says. “A lot of black people who left then can’t get back in.”

....

https://www.washingtonian.com/2018/04/04/how-14th-street-came-back-reinvention-a-history/

[Uncle Joe]

145. That was a good read SMC.

[SMC22307]

155. I thought so too, thanks.

I've watched this for decades, starting with when my parents piled us into the baby blue station wagon to look at the aftermath of the riots.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

156. Excellent post!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[George II]

2. He could have stayed in Brooklyn and done something about gentrification decades ago....

....instead of moving up to Vermont.

There are lots of neighborhoods in Brooklyn (including where I grew up, about 2 miles from where he grew up) that have been victim of "white flight" and then gentrification.

[rgbecker]

3. Is this the new standard in Canada? Everyone has to stay where they were born?

[George II]

11. I wouldn't know.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

60. Yes, but the standard only applies to Bernie... like all the other "Bernie standards."

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[corbettkroehler]

130. Bingo! (n/t)

[TexasTowelie]

63. Do you realize that the person you're addressing

has dual US/Canadian citizenship? He has been active in politics in the US for decades.

[rgbecker]

66. Since I had never heard of a rule about staying where ever you were born in the US...

It must be a thing in Canada.

[George II]

142. My maternal grandparents moved to NYC from Ontario back in the 1920s....

....to find work during the depression. My mother was about five or six years old. When they went back to Canada in the 1930s she, being 18 years old and having met my father, decided to stay in NYC.

Happy now?

[rgbecker]

146. So no body stayed where they were born? Bernie is not so weird afterall?

So what exactly was your point other than to Bash Bernie:

He could have stayed in Brooklyn and done something about gentrification decades ago....


....instead of moving up to Vermont.

There are lots of neighborhoods in Brooklyn (including where I grew up, about 2 miles from where he grew up) that have been victim of "white flight" and then gentrification.

[George II]

147. None of them called themselves "civil rights" leaders then moved from a diverse city....

....to a virtually all white city. And none of them railed against gentrification but moved from a city where gentrification was looming to a relatively rural area.

In fact, they did the opposite (without the proclamations of being civil rights leaders or being anti-gentrification) - they moved from a relatively all-white area to the diverse city of Brooklyn, NY.

On the other hand, the first chance he got he joined the waves of "white flight" from Brooklyn.

I think you know my point, and it wasn't to "bash Bernie" but point out what he could have done first hand to help at the time instead of talking about it from afar.

Next?

[tonedevil]

152. OK /nt

[SMC22307]

97. Why would anyone know that? (n/t)

[TexasTowelie]

110. Why would anyone assume that he is a Canadian? nt

[SMC22307]

124. Ask the person making the assumption.

Although the maple leaf avatar gives a hint at some sort of a connection...

[George II]

141. Why would anyone care? I've never delved into the background of anyone around here.

But now that you mention it, do you play for the Pittsburgh Steelers?

[Blue_Tires]

148. The point he's making is that Bern talks a good game

but there's never anything to back it up...

Nevermind the fact that this appears to be more of a state/local instead of federal issue...

[Uncle Joe]

4. He could have but his mom never survived her dream of leaving their rent controlled apartment and

do you how expensive 85 acres is in Brooklyn!?

(snip)

(snip)

Sanders, 73, the independent senator turned Democratic presidential candidate, has called Vermont home for almost all of his entire adult life. It started when he was around 13 years old, a fascination with the Green Mountain State born in glossy real estate guides.

"We picked up the brochures," Sanders says. "We read them and we saw farms were for sale."

And then after college, in the mid-1960s, Sanders, his then-wife and his brother pooled some inheritance money and bought a small piece of the dream.

(snip)

"We had never been to Vermont in our lives; we just drove up," Sanders says. "We bought 85 acres for $2,500. How's that? But it was woodland."

(snip)

https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/06/20/415747576/leaving-brooklyn-bernie-sanders-found-home-in-vermont

Some people are urban and some are more rural by nature, there is nothing wrong with either.

[George II]

44. I lived in practically the same neighborhood at almost the same time as him. Believe me....

....there were no "brochures" for farmland in Vermont being distributed in Brooklyn.

[SMC22307]

52. Believe you?

You have a clear anti-Sanders agenda, so no.

[rgbecker]

72. I can tell you there were a lot of people looking to move the country at that time.

Paul McCartney even sang a song about it. Buying property, farms, hunting cabins and wood lots was a thing. Some even went to Canada to dodge the draft. It didn't take a brochure distributor to get the listings to those interested. Most newspapers of the day had classified advertising sections and would list RE for sale, local and across the state. George 11 does seem to have a little Bernie problem going on.

[SMC22307]

78. Yeah, they know that and no one but the same tiresome clique is buying the poutrage.

Billy Bragg lives in a big house! So does Michael Moore! And Al Gore! And Nancy Pelosi may or may not have a fence! Idiota.

[George II]

120. I have a PRO-Democratic Party "agenda".

[Hekate]

114. They were all over the place in the 1970s, like wishbooks for real estate. Several things, George...

The brochures are still around -- I think they're called Homes & Land.

First, there was the residual feeling from the 1960s "back to the land" impulse. A lot of books told you how wonderful it would be to milk your own goats and spin their wool.

Second, there was a widespread fear in the 1970s that the world economy was going to crash and burn, leaving urbanites to have food riots in their dystopian environments. My sister and her first husband were a pair of young engineers who went straight from Berkeley to Oregon, got jobs in their field, and bought a farm along with his siblings. They owned a couple of crossbows and other survival gear.

Third, if you lived where land was unavailable and horribly expensive (like Hawai'i, where I was at the time) you fantasized about buying some acreage in a place where land was affordable, if not downright cheap. I used to pick up copies of Homes & Land and moon over the possibility of going to Oregon myself. I never did, but I did buy a hardcover book in 1975 called "The Homesteader's Handbook to Raising Small Livestock," which I practically committed to memory.

Fourth, I can actually sympathize with Bernie's desire to leave the megalopolis that is NYC and buy a lot of land in another state along the same coast. He had a lot of company in that desire during that era -- the difference was that he did it. He no doubt was reading the East Coast issues of Homes & Land.

My issues with Bernie are all about his preaching a one-size-fits-all economic solution to every problem. I really don't care about his choice of Vermont -- only that his worldview and philosophy didn't seem to grow and change.

[Autumn]

128. I didn't see where he claimed the brochures they picked up were picked up in Brooklyn.

You don't know where they got them, you weren't a part of his family history and in the article, Bernie doesn't say they got them in Brooklyn. That's all you.

It started when he was around 13 years old, a fascination with the Green Mountain State born in glossy real estate guides.
"We picked up the brochures," Sanders says. "We read them and we saw farms were for sale."

And then after college, in the mid-1960s, Sanders, his then-wife and his brother pooled some inheritance money and bought a small piece of the dream.

"We", that I presume means his family, saw them and picked them up. Somewhere. He didn't say where. I don't see where he claimed they came from your neighborhood when he was 13 years old so no, you don't know where they got them. Nice try though. Obviously, his parents or he was out on a stroll, got them somewhere. No one claimed they found them in Brooklyn except for you.
Several years later after college, he and his wife and brother remembered them or maybe found the brochures going through their Fathers things and looked at Farmland in Vermont, went to Vermont and bought some land.

I know for a fact there were real estate brochures with pretty pictures of land for sale in differenet parts of the country in the 50s, even in Texas. I can't imagine they would not have them in New York City. Somewhere.
In the '50s my father bought land in another state, from "brochures" he saw in Texas. Just because you didn't see them in practically the same Brooklyn neighborhood Bernie lived in doesn't mean they weren't there.

[George II]

131. hmph....

[Autumn]

133. Yep, just like the several times you have posted that or a variation of it.

Just pointing out the failure of reasoning in that post.

[George II]

137. ...

[SMC22307]

149. The brochures were picked up in Manhattan.

At least according to this interview:

"We stopped near the Radio City Music Hall and at that point the state of Vermont had a storefront there, advertising Vermont land," says Sanders. "It was for tourists."

https://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/06/20/415747576/leaving-brooklyn-bernie-sanders-found-home-in-vermont

The Great Real Estate Brochure Mystery has been solved.

[Autumn]

150. Thanks, good to know. It will come up again.

And again

[SMC22307]

153. Bless their hearts.

[SMC22307]

51. God bless 'em for getting out of the concrete jungle...

if that's what they wanted. And 85 acres for $2,500? WOW!

[R B Garr]

5. Very good points. It does make you wonder why someone would leave New York

with so many opportunities to show your commitment to civil rights and diversity.

[SMC22307]

55. To get out of the concrete jungle and be part of the "back to the land" movement...

and show commitment to many issues. It's really not a difficult concept to grasp.

[BannonsLiver]

135. Riiiighhhht

It was the “back to the land” movement.



We all know why he left.

[SMC22307]

143. Lay it out Steve, I mean BannonsLiver... why did he leave? (n/t)

[BannonsLiver]

144. LOL

I think he left for a lot of the same reasons others left, and it wasn’t to go live in a yurt and make artisan bread as part of the “back to the land” movement.

[SMC22307]

151. Yurt, no. Maple sugar shack with a dirt floor, evidently.

...

In 1964 he graduated with a degree in political science and got married in Baltimore.

...

That summer, not quite 23, he and his wife, Deborah Sanders, bought for $2,500 some property in Vermont, near Montpelier in the town of Middlesex off Shady Rill Road, according to property records. He wanted to live in the country, he has said, and had some inheritance money from his father, who had died in 1963. They spent parts of the next few summers on the property, living in what had been a maple sugar shack with a dirt floor.

...

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/07/bernie-sanders-vermont-119927

Why so obtuse... what are the reasons he and others left NYC?

[George II]

154. That's what he told people in 2015. I wonder if he'll ever tell us about his brief stay....

....on a kibbutz in Israel, or the commune in Vermont?

[BannonsLiver]

161. Yeah, he was working the land.

[uawchild]

7. cough Biden left a blighted Scranton, PA cough

Maybe he moved for similar reasons as Biden left Scranton, PA. It was nicer?

Let's see what the man whose going to win the Rust Belt back us for left behind in Scranton:

After World War II, coal lost favor to oil and natural gas as a heating fuel, largely because the latter types were more convenient to use. While some U.S. cities prospered in the post-war boom, the fortunes and population of Scranton (and the rest of Lackawanna and Luzerne counties) began to diminish. Coal production and rail traffic declined rapidly throughout the 1950s, causing a loss of jobs.

The Knox Mine Disaster of January 1959 virtually ended the mining industry in Northeastern Pennsylvania. The waters of the Susquehanna River flooded the mines.[14][15] The DL&W Railroad, nearly bankrupted by the drop in coal traffic and the effects of Hurricane Diane, merged in 1960 with the Erie Railroad. Demand for public transportation also declined as new highways were built by federal subsidies and people purchased automobiles. In 1952, the Laurel Line ceased passenger service. The Scranton Transit Company, whose trolleys had given the city its nickname, transferred all operations to buses as the 1954 holiday season approached; by 1968, it ceased all operations. The city was left without any public transportation system until the Lackawanna County government formed COLTS, which began operations in 1972 with 1940s-era GM busses from New Jersey.

Scranton had been the hub of its operations until the Erie Lackawanna merger, after which it no longer served in this capacity. This was another severe blow to the local labor market. The NYO&W Railroad, which depended heavily on its Scranton branch for freight traffic, was abandoned in 1957. Mine subsidence was a spreading problem in the city as pillar supports in abandoned mines began to fail; cave-ins sometimes consumed entire blocks of homes. The area was left scarred by abandoned coal mining structures, strip mines, and massive culm dumps, some of which caught fire and burned for many years until they were extinguished through government efforts. In 1970, the Secretary of Mines for Pennsylvania suggested that so many underground voids had been left by mining underneath Scranton that it would be "more economical" to abandon the city than make them safe.[16] In 1973, the last mine operations in Lackawanna County (which were in what is now McDade Park, and another on the Scranton/Dickson City line) were closed. During the 1960s and 1970s, the silk and other textile industries shrank as jobs were moved to the South or overseas.[citation needed]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scranton,_Pennsylvania#Post-World_War_II_(1946–1984)

Seriously, how can you complain about Sanders leaving a blighted Brooklyn when Biden left a blighted Scranton? Seems, well, inconsistent?

[George II]

8. "Biden" didn't leave Scranton, his parents left Scranton and took the family with them....

Joe was only 11 years old at the time.

[uawchild]

10. Why didn't Biden go back to Scranton when he finished college?

Was it the blighted economy? Maybe he could have done something about the blighted economy decades ago? It's his home town after all and he loves his hometown, they say.

[George II]

12. Perhaps because when he finished college Delaware was really the only home he really knew?

He didn't grow up in Scranton nor did he first go to college in Scranton. Substitute Brooklyn for Scranton and Sanders did both.

[uawchild]

15. Nah, Biden keeps telling us his home town is Scanton PA

Biden seems to want to claim Scranton as his home town when it suits his purposes though, check out this video...

Clinton Campaigns in Joe Biden's Hometown

Hillary Clinton introduced Vice President Joe Biden at a campaign rally in Biden's hometown of Scranton, Pennsylvania Monday.

Wow, that video, he sure sounds like he's totally into Scranton, Pa, his home town, in his speech!

So, maybe if he went back to his beloved hometown he could have done something about the economic blight in the Rust Belt decades and decades ago? Right? Same as Sanders? Right?

[George II]

20. I'm sure he still has family in Scranton, or did for a long time. Except for his kickoff....

...a few weeks ago, how often has Sanders mentioned his home town? Moving from Brooklyn to the woods of Vermont in the 1960s is a far cry from moving from Scranton to Wilmington in the 1950s.

Need we continue to debate this?

[uawchild]

33. That Biden video was _clearly_ the final word :)

"Need we continue to debate this?"

No, I think posting that video of Biden being sooo into Scranton, PA, his home town pretty much says it all. Don't you?

It was a mic drop moment.

Biden and Sanders deciding to live someplace other than their run down home towns is an issue you decided to raise.
I think it was a nonsensical argument to try to make but that's just my outsider's opinion.

Since you asked me a direct question, please allow me to ask you one in return.

Need we continue posting silly threads about non-issues like this one here?

[George II]

48. Once again, Biden did NOT decide to live someplace else, his parents did...

He went to grammar school in Wilmington, he went to High School in Wilmington. Living in Wilmington since he was an 11-year old, Wilmington was ingrained into his life. He and his family didn't decide in his mid-20s to move to Wilmington. On the other hand, the person "in question", after living in the 1st and 3rd largest cities in the US his entire life, decided to move to the 2nd least populated states in the country.

Also, Biden didn't decide to drop out of a Wilmington or Delaware college to run off to another state to earn his bachelors degree.

The Midwood section of Brooklyn at the time wasn't "run down", in fact the apartment house where he grew up is still there, and the surrounding area is now somewhat "gentrified".

As to your last question, I agree - I wish we didn't need to continue to post "silly threads" about non-issues, but you should take that up with Uncle Joe, the one who did so.

[uawchild]

58. Biden just decided not to return to his beloved but blighted home town. Got it.

And before you keep insisting its not _really_ Biden's beloved home town, lets watch THIS again...

Honestly George, I am going to keep asking you to watch this video every time you try to tell me Scranton, PA isn't Biden's beloved home town.

Cheers and have a nice evening.

[George II]

67. I don't know why this has become a Biden discussion. As we all know....

....Biden's family continued to visit Scranton for years after they moved to Wilmington. They're less than a 2-hour drive apart. Yes, Biden has an affinity for Scranton, as he does for Wilmington, no doubt about it. But Biden isn't calling for an end to gentrification (which hasn't happened in either Scranton or Wilmington)

This is a discussion about Sanders calling for an end of "gentrification", almost 50 years after HIS hometown began to be gentrified. Glad he has finally evolved.

[SMC22307]

69. Bwahaha! Transferring to another university that just happens to be...

in another state is "running off"? LOL Do you hear yourself?

Rundown or not, Sanders, his wife, and his brother wanted woods, not concrete. Who the hell are you, or anyone, to judge anyone else for where they choose to live?

I mean, shit, the Obamas choose to live in pricey Kalorama. Why no Anacostia? Oh, wait, that area's being gentrified to within an inch of its life...

[George II]

75. So, in a discussion about Sanders and gentrification we've gone to Joe Biden and now Obama. Okay.

[uawchild]

87. "Biden isn't calling for an end to gentrification" and that's a good thing?

the indentation got too deep and isn't working properly and replies are not being posted under the right position, so let me repost this here since you might have missed this:

Biden isn't calling for an end to gentrification (which hasn't happened in either Scranton or Wilmington)"

So, for some reason you are upset that Sanders is not living in his beloved but blighted home town and is now trying to address the issue of gentrification.

But for some reason you are fine with Biden not living in his beloved but blighted home town and NOT calling for an end to gentrification. Wowzers... where to start..

First, did you know many minorities experiencing gentrification would HOPE that democrats would want to end gentrification? They feel that the communities they grew up in are being destroyed by gentrification that displaces them.


Second, well, George, sit down. Brace yourself, Gentrification HAS happened in Scranton and Wilmington.

Want some links? Ok....

We're seeing gentrification on a smaller magnitude here in Scranton, PA as well, and it's interesting to watch, to say the least, if not even a bit disheartening.
http://www.city-data.com/forum/urban-planning/132578-gentrification-against-2.html#ixzz5n0ooOvyK

SCRANTON-- Art studios, recreation trails and industrial-chic renovations are all part of an ambitious plan to turn South Scranton into a hip, artsy, hangout.
https://wnep.com/2015/06/25/iron-district-plan-seeks-to-transform-south-scranton/

The battles over Baynard Stadium and the formerRodney Square transit hub don’t seem to have much in common with one another.
Still, both are related to the beginnings of that fancy word “gentrification” in Wilmington. Simply stated, ounger people, often with good jobs, are moving to the city
https://delawarebusinessnow.com/2018/10/the-early-days-of-wilmingtons-gentrification/

"A street of hopes and dreams": rehabilitation, revitalization, and gentrification along Market Street in Wilmington, Delaware
http://udspace.udel.edu/handle/19716/10129

Will you at least admit you were wrong that Gentrification HAS occurred in Scranton and Wilmington?

Will you not accept that minority communities feel they are being destroyed by gentrification?

Personally, I give Sanders credit for discussing problems associated with gentrification. Bravo. I say Bravo.

Since the indentation has broken in this sub-thread I think it's time for me to say my job here is over. lol


Cheers!

[treestar]

139. one blue collar city to another

not the same as one huge city to the country - you brought up the situation as supposed to be equivalent.

[R B Garr]

34. It's just not believable that there is so much denial and

obfuscation and false analogies. This goes to one picture from college 40 years ago and a march with MLK. Just throwing out someone’s birthplace isn’t the analogy.

[SMC22307]

59. He was 11, not an infant.

My family moved from SW PA to DC when I was 8 and my hometown still feels like home. Guess not the same for Biden, eh?

[George II]

68. Did Joe Biden hop into a car and decide to move to Wilmington? NO.

[SMC22307]

71. "...Delaware was really the only home he really knew?"

Again he was 11, not an infant. He KNEW Scranton.

[uawchild]

91. Scranton is Biden's beloved home town, he campaigns on it.

Biden knows and loves Scranton, watch this video...

[SMC22307]

93. Seriously. My family moved from...

SW PA to DC when I was about 8. I STILL remember so many things: the slate patio and creek behind our house, my elementary school, swimming at the Y with my Mom, shopping at downtown department stores, walking to the five-and dime, corner taverns. In fact, I remember the "goodbye" breakfast we had with my grandparents at the Jolly Roger before we hit the road for DC! This notion that Biden only knew Delaware as home is utter bollocks.

These folks can't have it both ways and Biden is indeed quick to play the Scranton card.

[uawchild]

94. Same here, childhood memories seem the strongest

Thanks for posting!

[SMC22307]

95. Likewise! (n/t)

[George II]

140. My family moved from Brooklyn to Queens when I was nine. My parents didn't ask me...

..."do you want to stay behind?" Biden had no choice, Sanders did. Wilmington Delaware is a much better location from where to talk about the evils of gentrification and racism than 95% white rural Vermont.

[Thekaspervote]

108. Could very well be! My family moved when I was 11. I was heartbroken. My sister 13 jumped for joy

This whole op is just silly!!!

[George II]

136. How many people make life changing decisions at 11 years old? It's mind boggling....

....that some can compare a person moving to another city at 11 years old when his family moved and someone who decides to move to another city after college.

So the civil rights icon moves from the diverse city of New York to a state that had less than 5,000 African Americans and was 95+% white. That's a sure fire way to advocate for civil rights!

[treestar]

138. ta-dum!

[Drunken Irishman]

111. lol you do realize Biden stayed in Wilmington, right?

Biden didn't leave Scranton, his parents did. He did, however, remain in Wilmington, a city whose population is 58% black and only 32% white. Wilmington is kinda similar to Scranton but it's a pretty diverse, economically blue collar city for the most part - and a city whose population has declined nearly every decade since the 1950s. In 1950, it had 110,356 people. Today? 71,106. So, not sure what point you're trying to make.

[WeekiWater]

134. He just picked up and left.

Leading his family at 11 years old. That’s who I want for President. Talk about leadership skills from an early age.

[Blue_true]

19. Bernie talks about problems. But he has been historically thin on solutions.

He started his political career as Mayor of an already progressive city. He does not seem to have gone into a brownfield and made it green. His congressional career is pretty thin on accomplishments. All that is what drives me insane when I hear him called a change agent.

I believe that successful businesses MUST get into insuring affordable housing in the places that they operate, it is simply an economic necessity for business. One way would be helping to fund a Trust Fund that buys up and renovate blighted properties then selecting longtime resident of the area who can't afford housing to own the properties. I think that it is foolish to give someone a refurbished house who has shown NO historical discipline about paying bills like rent, utilities, water, giving someone like that a refurbished house is throwing money down a rathole. Companies can help fund apartment complexes for singles and childless couples who are not ready to buy a house or chose not to buy a house.

[JonLP24]

36. Vermont was a conservative state when he was first elected

He had the backing of the poor and even the poor and he did a great job as mayor which is why he continued to defeat Republicans in formerly conservative Vermont.

https://m.

[Blue_true]

41. Burlington was not.

He got elected Mayor of one of the most progressive cities in the northeast at that time, even more progressive than New York City and Boston of that era.

When he ran statewide, Vermont had shifted to being more progressive statewide.

[JonLP24]

43. Burlington was very poor

He got the backing of the poor. Still does, the only demographic Bernie Sanders doesn't appeal to is those making over $100,000 picture TV pundits and columnists.

[Uncle Joe]

49. No cause and effect eh? Bernie becomes mayor of progressive Burlington,

runs for Congress and wins where his platform is expanded state wide and then moderate/conservative Vermont shifted to more progressive by the time Bernie ran for the Senate.

Perhaps the state by your version followed Bernie's lead?

[Blue_true]

73. Burlington had IBM at around that time.

I visited there on business, it was not poor, very liberal and upscale. There is no doubt that Burlington influenced the state and still does, but I think the college area of Westrn Massachusetts has more influence on southern Vermont. Bernie did not have the influence that you mentioned. Remember the republican Jeffords that ran statewide before Bernie was very progressive for a republican. and left that party to caucus with democrats.

[George II]

70. No it wasn't. By the late 1960s and into the early 1970s Vermont had become a more liberal state...

Sanders wasn't elected Mayor of Burlington until 1980.

[JonLP24]

74. Reagan won the state in the 80s

In fact Trump and Bush Jr are the only Republicans to win the Presidency without Vermont in the last 100 years.

[George II]

77. Reagan won every state but RI, WV (yes, WV!), MD, GA, MN, and HI. He also won....

....liberal states like NY, Il, DE, CA, OR, WA, etc. In 1984 he won every state but Minnesota and DC.

The fact that Reagan won Vermont isn't an indication of it's "conservativeness".

[JonLP24]

79. Roger Stone bribed a liberal party politician to run to split the vote in New York

In the clip I provided Phil Donahue asked "how did this happen in conservative Vermont?"

[SMC22307]

30. White dude moves to Vermont during the back-to-the-land movement...

then same white dude is supposed to move back into a city being gentrified to fight gentrification? Okaaaaaay...

[elleng]

109. Right, and I should have stayed in Brooklyn too,

instead of fleeing to Long Island and then college in Ohio and law school in Chicago, and then administrative law in DC.

He and I did the right things for us, and maybe you did too.

[George II]

157. It's not simply moving from Brooklyn, it's moving to one of the least diverse states....

....in America and then touting himself as a "leader" in the civil rights movement and complaining about gentrification.

Brooklyn was diverse
Parts of Long Island were/are diverse (not sure where you were)
Parts of Ohio were/are diverse (again, not sure where you were)
Chicago is diverse
DC is diverse

Now, his moving to Vermont is no big thing (I eventually wound up in Connecticut) but his claiming to be a civil rights icon IN VERMONT is laughable.

[WeekiWater]

162. While you took some heat for this....

It appears you have good reason to question it.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287108398#post46

[NYMinute]

6. Someone from Vermont talking about gentrification

in highly populated southern areas is almost like someone from Southern Arizona telling people in Alaska how to drive on ice.

[George II]

9. Bazinga!

[NurseJackie]

18. Boom!

[Blue_true]

21. You touched on the issue.

When an area becomes prosperous, gentrification is quick to follow. The issue is how to build a prosperous economy and keep housing prices in a reasonable range.

[SMC22307]

35. Stacey Mills doesn't seem to mind.

https://www.goupstate.com/news/20160406/stacey-mills-named-executive-director-of-usc-upstate-campuses-in-greenville



Listen to the local activists who have welcomed Sanders... or do you think you know better?

[R B Garr]

37. LOL!

So true.

[JonLP24]

38. He was great on housing as mayor

“Bernie pounded his fist on the conference table in his office and told the owners, ‘Over my dead body are you going to displace 336 working families. You are not going to convert Northgate into luxury housing,’” recalled Davis, who was Sanders’s key housing aide.

Under Sanders’s leadership, the city adopted a number of laws to stifle the owners’ plans. One ordinance required apartment owners to give residents two years’ notice before a condo conversion. Others gave residents a pre-emptive right to buy the units and prohibited landlords from bulldozing buildings unless they replaced them with the same number of affordable units. (These measures lowered the selling price of the property.) Sanders then worked with the state government and Senator Patrick Leahy to get the $12 million needed to purchase and rehabilitate the buildings. The city allocated funds to help the tenants hire an organizer, form the Northgate Residents Association, and start the process of converting the complex to resident ownership. Today, Northgate Apartments is owned by the tenants and has long-term restrictions to keep the buildings affordable for working families.

The battle over Northgate Apartments illustrates Sanders’s general approach to governing. In addressing this and many other issues, he encouraged grassroots organizing, adopted local laws to protect the vulnerable, challenged the city’s business power brokers, and worked collaboratively with other politicians to create a more livable city.

Now that Sanders is running for president, the eight years he spent as Burlington’s chief executive (1981–89) will be under close scrutiny. Although President Obama recently joked at the White House Correspondents’ Association dinner that Sanders is a “pot-smoking socialist,” he was actually a hardworking, pragmatic, effective mayor who helped transform Vermont’s largest city (population: 38,000) into a thriving town.

https://www.thenation.com/article/bernies-burlington-city-sustainable-future/

[SMC22307]

82. Perfect example of why I keep coming back to Sanders as my top pick. (n/t)

[NYMinute]

102. All it probably did was keep developers away from Burlington

and made the housing shortage worse.

Housing prices are determined by supply and demand … so if you cut off supply by discouraging investment, the prices will still go up except for a lucky few who got grandfathered into their spaces.

I have seen this happen in many countries. In some countries, because the rents could not be increased, people were forced to rent for 29 days at a time so they never became long term tenants.

Smart people don't try to hurt the very people they want to help with draconian measures.

A better way would have been for the city to provide land on a long term lease and provide below market financing with a bond issue so that developers would build affordable housing on city's terms.

[mountain grammy]

106. If you took a NY minute to read the article

you would see that the city did quite well.

[JonLP24]

115. He revitalized Burlington's economy

He did a great job.

Link to tweet

[NYMinute]

121. Anyone can write a tweet. nt

[ehrnst]

99. BOOM! (nt)

[Nuggets]

13. This happens in some areas but there

are many studies that show that improvement benefits the people who live in the gentrified neighborhoods.

Greenville SC is a city where nearly 30% of the population is AA and their families have lived there since the first slave was forced to work there.

There are a few major roads but mostly its a maze of small streets winding through neighborhoods in the area they are talking about here. As investors attract more people to the area, more business and more jobs it’s suffering in areas because it doesn’t have the infrastructure to support a huge influx of people yet.

There will always be poor people struggling
every time economic growth increases are made There will always be winners and losers. People in these neighborhoods are in a position to benefit.

Some people owned their houses and were happy with the higher offers they were getting due to the neighborhood improved.

The question really is: How do we help those who are displaced?

I think a bigger problem is investors purposely clearing neighborhoods of poorer residents in states that have property taxes. Building luxury homes nearby and increasing the property tax to far more than these people could ever afford. So they are forced to sell and sometimes for pennies on the dollar because of the immediate effects.

[Uncle Joe]

16. There doesn't "always have to be winners and losers"

If developers focused on at least setting aside some percentage of constructions for affordable housing more rungs would be available for the people to climb.

[Nuggets]

22. Yes

There does always have to be winners and losers. Its a fact of life.
And as ai pointed out the issue is how to soften the blow for those displaced.

[Uncle Joe]

25. That's a little too dog eat dog view of humanity for Bernie and me

That's the fundamental problem with runaway capitalism there must be winners and losers.

[Nuggets]

32. Its the problem with reality.

Sorry if it’s tough to accept. It has nothing to do with run away capitalism.


That’s literally life. No matter what decisions society makes to change things someone will win others will lose.

That’s not to say today’s perverted version of capitalism isn’t sociopathic and cannot sustain itself.

[Uncle Joe]

39. It has everything to do with runaway capitalism and that kind of mentality is

why the Gordon Geckos of the world dominate the government.

Source: Wall Street

Speaker: Gordon Gekko

"Greed is good."

The point is, ladies and gentleman, that greed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed is right, greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed, in all of its forms; greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge has marked the upward surge of mankind. And greed, you mark my words, will not only save Teldar Paper, but that other malfunctioning corporation called the USA. Thank you very much.

https://www.shmoop.com/quotes/greed-is-good-misquote.html

Greed is not evolutionary, it's prehistoric and it "captures the evolutionary spirit" only insofar as to kill it.

[Nuggets]

45. Human nature is human nature

the crappy attitudes of greedy people have been here since the dawn of man and will remain here until humans no longer exist.

People will always have to deal with them.

It’s reality regardless of the system a society uses.

[Uncle Joe]

50. Human nature is evolutionary, greed is not. n/t

[Nuggets]

53. Human nature is not evolutionary

hence the reason we have the same issues between human beings we’ve always had.
The seven sins haven’t changed and they never will regardless of a capitalist system, a feudal system or a communist system.

[Uncle Joe]

56. Societies are evolutionary and societies help to shape human nature ergo

human nature is evolutionary.

[Nuggets]

62. No its not. Society doesn't change human nature.

The times change, the technologies change, the rules and customs change. Human nature does not change.

How is it there are still jealous people in the world?
Why haven’t they learned and evolved?
Why does greed still exist? Hatred? Love? Happiness? depression?

[Uncle Joe]

85. Societies do change human nature, they can relieve stress or increase it.

However emotions are not all that encompass human nature, reason plays part as well and human nature is malleable as reason expands.

[Nuggets]

88. If societies changed human nature

then why does crime even exist any more?
Why does adultery still occur?
Why do people still lie for nefarious reasons?
Why haven’t people who have learned about birth control still have sex without it?

Civilizations have tried to change the human qualities that cause suffering in their societies since forever without success, because human nature doesn’t change.

What you think is reasonable others don’t, and
they believe they are just as righteous as you believe you are. What you find stressful they find comforting etc.
Human nature. You can’t change it.

[Uncle Joe]

90. Whoever said we have reached the apex of human development?

Many advanced societies have passed us by, our own conceit or fear blinds us to that reality.

[Nuggets]

96. There are better things in other societies and worse.

For example Germany has gone from good to bad to good.
Did they unlearn all that “advancement “ while they supported the Nazis for 10+ years and then become re-advanced after 1945?

Could it have been the rotten human nature and the need for revenge?
How come there are still Nazis today? Why didn’t they learn?

I never said anything about reaching any “human development apex”!don’t try putting words in my mouth ( also human nature when flailing in a debate).
The problem is nothing has changed about human nature.

Human nature refers to the distinguishing characteristics, including ways of thinking, feeling and acting, that humans tend to have naturally, independently of the influence of culture.

Definitions.net

[Uncle Joe]

132. That's incorrect, Germany went from bad to worse to good.

(snip)

Germany was declared a federal republic at the beginning of the German Revolution in November 1918, with 18 federated states in 1925.

On 11 August 1919 President Friedrich Ebert signed the democratic Weimar Constitution.[53] In the subsequent struggle for power, the radical-left Communists seized power in Bavaria, but conservative elements in other parts of Germany attempted to overthrow the Republic in the Kapp Putsch. It was supported by parts of the Reichswehr (military) and other conservative, nationalistic and monarchist factions. After a tumultuous period of bloody street fighting in the major industrial centres, the occupation of the Ruhr by Belgian and French troops and the rise of inflation culminating in the hyperinflation of 1922–23, a debt restructuring plan and the creation of a new currency in 1924 ushered in the Golden Twenties, an era of increasing artistic innovation and liberal cultural life. Historians describe the period between 1924 and 1929 as one of "partial stabilisation."[54] The worldwide Great Depression hit Germany in 1929. After the federal election of 1930, Chancellor Heinrich Brüning's government was enabled by President Paul von Hindenburg to act without parliamentary approval. Brüning's government pursued a policy of fiscal austerity and deflation which caused high unemployment of nearly 30% by 1932.[55]

The Nazi Party led by Adolf Hitler won the special federal election of 1932. After a series of unsuccessful cabinets, Hindenburg appointed Hitler as Chancellor of Germany on 30 January 1933.[56] After the Reichstag fire, a decree abrogated basic civil rights and within weeks the first Nazi concentration camp at Dachau opened.[57][58] The Enabling Act of 1933 gave Hitler unrestricted legislative power; subsequently, his government established a centralised totalitarian state, withdrew from the League of Nations following a national referendum, and began military rearmament.[59]

(snip)

Germany has a network of 227 diplomatic missions abroad[125] and maintains relations with more than 190 countries.[126] As of 2011, Germany is the largest contributor to the budget of the European Union (providing 20%)[127] and the third largest contributor to the UN (providing 8%).[128] Germany is a member of NATO, the OECD, the G8, the G20, the World Bank and the IMF. It has played an influential role in the European Union since its inception and has maintained a strong alliance with France and all neighbouring countries since 1990. Germany promotes the creation of a more unified European political, economic and security apparatus.[129][130]

Culture most assuredly affects the way people feel, think and act.

[floppyboo]

163. There are some good arguements to show that human nature is evolutionary

Different technologies over time have re-wired our brains. Time itself for example. We didn't always have clocks. Map making changed our brains and way of living in the world. Just a few examples, before we even get to the printing press.

Adultery isn't primitive. No evolution required. That's a bible/moral/relative kind of thing.
Read Pinker's book 'our better angels' and check out the stats that show crime is decreasing (birth control the latest big boost) Why people still procreate 'knowing' about birth control? Ask your pastor.

[YOHABLO]

112. That is so Ayn "Randian". Are you sure your at the right website?

[Nuggets]

119. No its not.

Name a policy that won’t be a negative for someone?

[floppyboo]

164. clean water eom

edit - unless corporations are people

[George II]

23. A number of states have access to affordable housing written into their statutes....

In Connecticut that's the case, and where I am we have it written into our town zoning regulations. When a new development is proposed, if it's multi-family it has to have a prescribed % of affordable housing. We won't approve any application without that.

Calling for affordable housing isn't "revolutionary".

[Blue_true]

26. But because Bernie said it, to his followers, it is a revelation. nt

[Uncle Joe]

28. No one said it was revolutionary but Bernie will be a strong advocate for those kinds of programs.

[NYMinute]

104. It is a zero sum game

When developers "set aside" anything a lower than cost, the losses are shifted to the other units and those people end up paying more.

What you are saying is

a. Developers should just eat the losses
b. Developers should stick it to the rest of the buyers/renters who are not "low income"

or

c. Nothing gets built which doesn't help anyone.

[NYMinute]

105. The problem really is

wage stagnation in some sectors while other sectors are doing well.

This combined with inflation allows some people afford the inflated prices for housing while others are unable to do so.

The way out is job training for those under 55 so that they can migrate to sectors that are wanting for employees.

[madville]

158. Retraining and migrating to new career fields is a good idea

My 21 yo son is an Industrial Electrician at a facility owned by a fortune 100 company, makes $30 an hour with great benefits and will probably gross 80-90k this year with overtime, that's not bad in a rural area in the Southeast. He had places heavily recruiting him before he graduated from technical college with a certificate, he went through both the residential and industrial training paths. The trades will always be around and there is a severe shortage in many fields in many areas of the country.

I went with him when he was registering for classes, there are tons of vocational grants and programs for trade students at a public tech school from what I saw. Many have night programs also, he did his last year at night while working for a residential electrician during the day wiring new houses.

[NYMinute]

159. Congratulations to your son

You must be very proud of him.

[madville]

160. Oh yeah

I was worried for a year or two though, he dropped out of high school and screwed around in some crappy jobs then he seemed to get bored with being broke. I think what really motivated him is when some of his friends started getting real jobs and making decent money.

[Blue_true]

24. Great, practical post. nt

[mountain grammy]

103. Many studies? How about a link to just one?

and I think most states have property taxes.

[Nuggets]

117. Okay

There are several links to different studies in this one article.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/09/this-is-what-happens-after-a-neighborhood-gets-gentrified/432813/

“A follow-up 2007 study, again with Braconi, examined apartment turnover in New York City neighborhoods and found that the probability of displacement declined as the rate of rent inflation increased in a neighborhood. Disadvantaged households in gentrifying neighborhoods were actually 15 percent less likely to move than those in non-gentrifying households.”

[Blue_true]

14. Exactly HOW will Bernie attack the problem.

Pete Buttigieg does have a track record in that area, will Bernie endorse a variety of what Mayor Pete used?

[Uncle Joe]

17. I bolded the last paragraph in the OP from Bernie as to some solutions.

He suggested a housing trust fund, which the city has established, along with rent control policies and what's known as "inclusionary zoning," which requires developers to include affordable housing as part of new developments.

[George II]

27. See post #23 - that is hardly "revolutionary". As they say, "been there, done that".

[Uncle Joe]

29. I saw it and apparently it hasn't been done well enough or this wouldn't be an issue.

[Blue_true]

76. So a guy that has a thin congressional record is supposed to

solve a problem that many people have worked on? In my area, housing alliances have existed for years. But one area that I think can be better is government buying up housing in conjunction with private owners of the housing. I don't like an all government solution because that opens things up to corruption.

[NYMinute]

107. shhhhhh

Everything Bernie does is revolutionary.

He invented the toothbrush and toilet paper.

[Blue_true]

31. A lot of that stuff is already happening.

The Trust Fund idea is an old one, Habitat for Humanity has worked along those lines for decades. Bernie is not saying anything new or novel, some have pointed that out.

I DO think that businesses that are successful should put more effort into working with cities and organizations like Habitat to insure a robust stock of affordable housing. But standards need to be set into who lives in that housing, law abiding hardworking poor people actually make neighborhoods better, but people that are prone to use crime or violence as a first response won't, so people must be screened.

[Nuggets]

40. Bernie suggested something they are already doing?

He suggested a housing trust fund, which the city has established, along with rent control policies and what's known as "inclusionary zoning," which requires developers to include affordable housing as part of new developments.

This makes it sound like he suggested this and Greenville implemented it due to Sanders’ suggestions.

This was done a long time ago.
Since they have addressed the issue why is Sanders in Greenville?

[Uncle Joe]

42. Bernie will push policies that strengthen and expand all three,

that's his stance on the issue.

[Nuggets]

46. He suggested nothing that strengthened

or expanded a thing. He suggested what they already are doing.

[Uncle Joe]

54. Bernie elevated the discussion to a national issue

During the forum last month at the West End center before a rally at the Peace Center, Sanders said gentrification was national issue.

“The bottom line is, we have to say before we can even come up with a solution what we want," he said at the forum. "And that is that working people have a right to continue to live in the communities that they love and where they grew up."

Sanders focused on three initiatives to alleviate housing costs for those finding it too expensive to live in the inner city with rising property values.

He suggested a housing trust fund, which the city has established, along with rent control policies and what's known as "inclusionary zoning," which requires developers to include affordable housing as part of new developments.

Should Bernie be nominated/elected President he will take it to a federal level.

[Nuggets]

57. We've been aware for a while, thanks.

Bernie’s problem is trying to get credit for bringing up issues others have already brought to the surface and pretending he’s leading the way.

His entire platform are the ideas of Democrats before him. You know, those oh so awful “establishment Dems” ?

[sheshe2]

64. bingo!

Thanks, nuggets.

[Nuggets]

81. You're welcome

I’ve gotten extremely tired of Sanders antics.

[sheshe2]

86. umhmmm.

Me two.

[Uncle Joe]

89. Bernie is doing what every candidate for the Presidency is doing, he is staking out

his position on the issues, if that translates to credit great.. more power to him.

Virtually every human stakes out their platform, beliefs, values and policies on those that came before but Bernie's positions on many critical issues have not been championed by most in power for decades or we wouldn't be where we are today.

[Nuggets]

92. Seems more like pandering to the

AA community in Greenville because he’s not offering anything new but yet is trying to appear to lead using their already implemented solutions. Why not appear somewhere they haven’t addressed the problem?
What exactly is Bernie going to do at the federal level to help states who have problems? Has he given specific ideas? Post them now if he has.

[SMC22307]

98. Are you going to tell the black activists from Greenville...

choosing to work with Bernie that they're being pandered to? Go for it.

[ehrnst]

100. That's some strawman there... (nt)

[Nuggets]

118. Sure will

I used to live there off of Ackley road smack dab in the middle of the area Sanders is talking about.
My friends there already see through his pandering.
So yeah no problem pointing it out.

[SMC22307]

125. Uh-huh.

Google Maps is really a nifty thing, eh?

[Nuggets]

126. Is that all you have to add to the debate?

a false implication that I’m lying?




Lol!
Yeah That’s the kind of response I should have expected.

[SMC22307]

47. So does Bernie, as mayor of Burlington. (n/t)

[mountain grammy]

101. This is a problem in Denver

and even in small mountain communities.. but in the mountains, the small cabins (many substandard) that locals used to rent are being bought, remodeled and turned into nightly rentals by owners..

There is literally no place for the working people to live, The resort town of Winter Park actually built housing for locals.

This is a national issue and Bernie recognizes it and has ideas to help fix it.

[RandySF]

113. I don't know any other way to say this

but many of Bernie's 2016 supporters in places like San Francisco and New York City were part of the problem.

[rgbecker]

116. Another great thread by Uncle Joe. Thanks!

[Ron Green]

122. More than anything else, most responses in this thread

have shown the disdain for Bernie Sanders by DU posters.

[onecaliberal]

127. Any policy that would help an individual or family in need is exactly what we should be doing.