Here's the problem I have with my friends who are Sanders supporters

[Vidal]

I do have lots of friends who supported Bernie in 2016 and are supporting him again.

I've let them know that it bothers me a lot when they (or Bernie) attack Democrats because I think that hurts the party and helps Trump and the GOP.

But here's the thing they keep doing, which to me is problematic: They compare Biden (for example) to Bernie on every single issue. AND if Biden (for example) doesn't agree with Bernie on every single issue then they start in on their harsh criticisms.

In other words, what I'm saying, is that Bernie people seem to think that anyone who doesn't agree with Bernie on every single issue is not worthy of becoming president.

Example: "If Biden doesn't support the Green New Deal then he shouldn't be president." Or, "If Biden doesn't support Bernie's Medicare for All bill then he shouldn't be president."

So there is this idea that Bernie's positions represent "Truth" and "Purity" and other positions on the issues are not valid or worthy of serious discussion.

I've asked my Bernie-supporting friends to be more open-minded and willing to discuss all of the issues instead of just assuming that Bernie has the right answer to every question that confronts our nation. Because I don't think he does.

But you can't tell that to Sanders supporters.

What do you think?

[MineralMan]

1. It's almost always a mistake to take an exclusionary approach to

anything political. It sets up an expectation that might not be realized and that can lead to a kind of disappointment that prevents someone from recognizing another good option.

No matter how much I like a particular candidate, there is always a chance my favorite candidate will not prevail, particularly in crowded primary races. I accept that possibility, since such things happen to every candidate who doesn't end up winning.

But, we're lucky. We're Democrats. The Democratic candidate who wins a place on the general election ballot will always be a better choice than any Republican, and will always be a better choice than a third-party candidate who cannot possibly win.

So, I support the candidate I like the best, or the candidate I think has the best chance to win in the primaries. But, I leave open the possibility that someone else will win. I vote exclusively for Democrats on general election ballots, whether I voted for that person in the primary election or not.

That's the only sane thing to do.

[TCJ70]

2. So they're looking at Biden and Bernie from a policy perspective...and this upsets you?

But here's the thing they keep doing, which to me is problematic: They compare Biden (for example) to Bernie on every single issue.

That's exactly how people SHOULD be looking at candidates in a primary. We're choosing someone based on their vision for America and policies they would enact. Issue-based criticisms should not be shied away from. It's not their fault Biden has very little in the way of policy to go on at the moment. He needs to flesh out his website and make the case.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

27. Really weird, isn't it! People interested in policy differences? The horror!

[TCJ70]

39. There's only one reason to think policy related critiques are attacks...

...and it's when you can't defend the critiqued candidates position (and you're backing that candidate). Otherwise, drawing parallels between candidates on policy is entirely appropriate.

[Gothmog]

41. If the choice is between being Woke and winning, I select winning

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

54. IKR!! I think they have a name for it... it's called "DEMOCRACY"!!

Now, that's NOT to say that Joe has no business being elected President just because he has disgreed with Bernie on a number of progressive issues, including Bernie's voting against the IWR, against TPP, denying China permanent normal trade relations, against NAFTA, and his stances in favor of legalizing marijuana, regulation of credit card companies, eliminating fracking, defeating bankruptcy legislation favoring corporations, free college tuition, student debt forgiveness, just to name a few.

No, Democratic voters will get to decide that based on policy issues... and if they agree more with Joe than Bernie on those issues, so be it! If voters finally give Joe the nod with a Presidential primary election victory and make him the Democratic nominee this time around, we then owe it to Joe to do everything possible to see that he defeats that POS occupying the White House.

That's how Democracy works!!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Sherman A1]

3. I believe that people are

Entitled to their opinions just as are you.

[RKP5637]

4. I vote for whomever is nominated and never tear other democratic candidates apart.

I'm also still undecided. To me all of the candidates have great things to offer.

[PaulRevere08]

21. +10000 We need to be united around the Dem nominee when the time comes.

Until then I plan on being respectful to supporters of all the D candidates. We have to learn how to be united at the core even if we disagree on some items. Any ideal that any of the candidates have on any issue is going to be 100 times better than anything the Trump Party will come up with.

[FakeNoose]

25. Except for one thing: Bernie isn't a Democrat

I don't understand why he should ever become our Democratic nominee. Also why would we accept Bernie's criticism of Democratic Party candidates when he chooses not to become one of us?

[RKP5637]

28. Yeah, it's a little strange. n/t

[Liberty Belle]

32. Bernie is to the left of many Democratic candidates though on some issues,

which is more important to many voters than the "D" after the name. Bernie isn't my first choice this time around but I'd rather have someone like Bernie than a Rino.

I do agree that candidates should not tear down others, merely discuss differences in policies. But not bringing up dirty laundry that gives Republicans fodder.

If Biden wins the nomination, it won't hurt him in trying to win swing/crossover votes if Bernie voters complained he wasn't liberal enough. It would hurt him if Bernie voters bring up old gaffes of Biden's, or other baggage.

Debates can be held as respectful airing of ideas, not decimating the other person, merely stating that you believe your idea is the better one.

I for one think it's great to see 20 some Democrats stumping across the country speaking out against Trump. Many voters will get to see at least one candidate in person and that's powerful.

A person who is a centrist voter or disillusioned Republican swayed by Bernie or Biden or any other Dem might well decide to try voting Democratic in the general election even if their first choice didn't win.

And the people on the left need to give up on purity and vote for any Dem who wins the primary come Nov. 2020, as the alternative, 4 more years of Trump trashing our country, is by far the worst alternative -- much more damaging than anything an Democrat could do.

[JaneQPublic]

36. Agree. And since my state has a relatively late primary...

...I see no value in "falling in love" with a particular candidate who may not even be on the ballot when I finally get to vote or in "falling out" with fellow Dems over candidates when doing so only makes it harder for folks to support a Dem nominee who is not their first choice.

[Celerity]

5. It isn't just Biden, the truly radical, NON DU Berners HATE Warren (wtf????) Harris, and Buttigieg

as well. I see their shitty sites, shitty Tweets, all spewing venom and divisiveness 24-7. Bernie's inner core staff is full of some truly disruptive, wrecker types (Turner, Sirota, etc), so a lot of it is on him.

Perfect example (an article that The Baffler pulled after hundreds of complaints, but then the hard left socialist site Jacobin posted it again):

warning, full trigger alert, btw

It’s Bernie, Bitch
Bad-faith liberals still blindly downplay Sanders's chance

https://web.archive.org/web/20190111191749/https://thebaffler.com/all-tomorrows-parties/its-bernie-bitch-frost

[we can do it]

12. Yes and BS co-opted many of EWs positions when she didn't run in 16.

[FakeNoose]

31. Yes that's exactly what happened in 2016 and it will again IF we allow it

I question their motives. It's almost like they're trying to destroy the Democratic Party.
Now who would want to do that?

[zipplewrath]

6. There will always be "the faithful"

You'll see this with any candidate. There were people during the Obama administration that didn't want to discuss policy. They just said "I trust Obama to do the right thing". There is no small contingent of Biden supporters whose entire support is basically based upon the idea that "he was good enough for Obama". There were a small group of Dean supporters that lasted a while after his candidacy that would compare future candidates to his positions.

The reality is that most people don't want their "beliefs" challenged, and that isn't just political. It has less to do with "purity" than it does with comfort. They are comfortable with their choices and will measure other candidates against those choices.

If ya wanna have a bit of fun, ask them specific questions about Bernie's positions on various topics. Ask them how he plans on phasing in Medicare for all, or implementing the Green New Deal. Heck, ask them to name 5 main features of the Green New Deal. Ask them about gun control, or foreign policy. You may find that they don't want to discuss these topics because they don't really know much about these topics.

[Honeycombe8]

7. The supporters of all the candidates are like that, to some degree.

But Bernie's are more passionate about it. I view Sanders as more of an activist than a standard politician. They have a view,and it's the view that matters. Not the Democratic Party. Not the country. Although, to Sanders' thinking, his ways ARE always best for the country, by chance.

But at least Sanders has ideas and plans. So kudos for that. I just don't think he can win a general election, if history gives us any crystal ball on that.

[NYMinute]

8. It is called not considering the whole picture

It is a self-centered and narcissistic way of looking at things and it is similar to Trump supporters in many respects.

A trumpanzee would say, "I want to stop the immigrants at the border and I don't care if it can be done or if the idea has any merit, but as long as Trump is talking about it, I don't care if he is a womanizer, abuses people and is stupid."

[yaesu]

9. I think labeling people by who they support is not very open minded. nt

[tonedevil]

33. So true. /nt

[BannonsLiver]

40. They label themselves.

[George II]

10. "If Biden doesn't support the Green New Deal then he shouldn't be president." - that was.....

Last edited Tue May 14, 2019, 10:34 AM - Edit history (1)

....the indirect theme of last night's Sunrise Movement* event, calling out someone who is "middle of the road" (can anyone guess who that is?????)

At least Biden is proposing things and has DONE things over his entire career in government, he doesn't just go around talking about it.

They keep talking about the so-called "green new deal" and "medicare for all", but neither has been formalized into plans from start to finish.

*Last night's event may have violated Sunrise Movement's tax-exempt status, too.

[lostnfound]

11. I canvassed for him in 2016, but I COMPLETELY agree

I appreciated Bernie for his decades of progressive votes and believed we desperately needed an intense focus on income inequality and the working class. i had no reservations about showing up to vote for Hillary in November, and did so with tears in my eyes, happy to be voting for what I thought was the first woman president.

But I hate that same attitude you just described. People who vote “green” are afflicted with the same black and white, “my way or the highway” thinking.

We need a good, balanced candidate, and we probably have at least ten to choose from. Personally I think we have at least ten that could beat trump, if the election machinery was clean.

[Kurt V.]

13. i don't argue politics with my RL friends, only here. :)

[Kaleva]

14. Here is the problem I have with those who attack supporters of any candidate

They use a broad brush. I wish such people would be more open minded and willing to discuss issues rather then focusing on the a actions of a few supporters of a candidate and then transposing those behaviors on all of the supporters..

[Paladin]

15. Good listing of the reasons why none of my friends are Bernie people.

There are two groups of supporters who consistently assign God-like qualities to their 2020 candidates: Bernie's and trump's. I have no use for either of them.

[redstatebluegirl]

16. That stupid "purity" stuff is what makes me crazy about the people I know who support him.

He is all knowing, always right and they are willing to burn the house down to make it so. No party can withstand purity tests, we all have differing view points during the primary and come together to win in the general, except where Bernie is concerned.

[Chakaconcarne]

17. Sorry.,.. this is just another divisive thread...

This is your opinion OP. ...and since the same can be said on all sides....a moot point.

[Kaleva]

19. No candidate has a monopoly on insufferable supporters

[LanternWaste]

20. No. Not divisive... merely inferred as such.

Divisiveness is pretending vaccines cause autism.

[berni_mccoy]

29. "But you can't tell that to Sanders supporters. "

I'd call that divisive group attack.

[notinkansas]

18. A candidate's policy positions

make all the difference. And also his record. That's all we have to determine who is the most suitable candidate. And differences in policy positions are supposed to be discussed and debated.

But in the end, the final Democratic nominee gets ones vote.

[NJCher]

22. are you sure on that?

I'm not sure I accept your characterization. I'm a Sanders supporter and haven't noticed anything of the kind.

What appears to me is Sanders people are sick of corporations meddling in our democracy. That's why people like Biden, who have voted for the credit card (banking industry) interests are just not in the running. Past behavior is a predictor of future performance.

Has anyone checked Biden's campaign contributions? Has he accepted any $$ from corporations?

[TNNurse]

23. Bernie is not a Democrat.

The people who did not vote for the Democrat because Bernie was not the candidate helped elect Donald Trump.

They are a cult. They are zealots.

They are as bad as any Republican who supports Trump even though he is ruining this country.

They are as unwilling to compromise as the GOP, we cannot survive without compromise.

There are a couple of Dems running who I do not want to vote for, however, I WILL VOTE FOR THE DEMOCRAT, regardless.

[calimary]

24. But... but... but... don't you understand?

We simply must die on the hill of The Perfect when we could have chosen the hill of The Merely Good and gotten all the way to the win.

[PatrickforO]

26. Vidal, I'm not really thrilled with the position you're taking in your post.

To criticize candidates (or laud them) based on the policy positions they've put forth is part of democracy. The founders set up this country so that we could allow vigorous debate about issues because it is possible to go the wrong direction really fast.

As a proud member of the progressive wing of the party, I love those positions, but what we really need is to elect sane people who understand there must, absolutely MUST, be movement forward on a variety of issues: climate change, health care, cost of lifesaving drugs, strengthening Social Security, changing American police culture, changing American corporate culture, well...the list goes on.

The point is that whoever we elect is going to have to work with both houses of Congress and the nation's governors to a) reverse the MASSIVE damage done by Trump and his evil wrecking crew, and b) move us forward in a constructive way - a way that helps the most people.

I don't mean to preach at you here, but we simply CANNOT afford to snipe at each other as we did in '16. Clinton came out of that bloodied, and while she did win with 2.9 million more popular votes, we ended up with the disgusting piece of moral offal that is currently squatting illegally and treasonously in the WH.

We have to be the proverbial 'good guys' here.

[billpolonsky]

30. Thank You!

for the voice of reason.

[pdsimdars]

34. I think it's most beneficial to keep your feelings out of it. Listen to the positions on the issues

For one of your examples, the Green New Deal, both parties have been dithering on that for decades and we're about to go over the tipping point. It's time to stop doing half measures on these important issues that have been basically ignored for so long. For way too long, the answer to the big ideas has been "we're not ready for that yet". People are dying and going bankrupt for lack of medical care and the planet is about to be torched. I think people are very tired of hearing all the drop in the bucket incremental change arguments.
So, when a candidate comes out and starts talking half measures and incrementalism, people are just not having it. It hasn't worked for decades now. You'd think the people who say, "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results", you'd think those people would look in the mirror and see their half measure have not done the job.

[jalan48]

37. +1

What's stopping Biden from taking a bold stance on climate change?

[pdsimdars]

42. Exactly

Greasing the skids.

[AlexSFCA]

35. and also if people don't agree with Bernie then they know nothing

about anything.

[pandr32]

38. They are using their perception of Bernie as the model for norm

...and rejecting anything and any candidates that/who deviates. No-one will satisfy this perceived "must be" model--likely not even Bernie. Anything about Bernie that does not fit the perfect candidate model is tossed aside. Not all of his voting record is wonderful, he is gaffe-prone like some others, he has not been completely transparent, and he (like others) has pulled political stunts. Often his ardent supporters defend these things as they come up as though there is some excusable reason.

I get that people can become passionate and feel that as supporters they are part of something important. We have a diverse assortment of terrific, capable candidates and should be proud of them all. Each has their own story and their own strengths as Democrats. What we shouldn't do is make any one candidate the model for perfection. It does not exist.


I am not attempting to Bernie-bash. My post is meant as a possible answer to the question posed by Vidal.

[Vidal]

43. Bernie is not always right

That is my point.

Yet, in my discussions with MY FRIENDS who are Bernie supporters, they assume that Bernie is right on every issue.

And that is my problem with them.

I'm saying it's good to discuss ISSUES. With an open mind.

[JI7]

51. did you ask them how he is going to do the things he calls for ? and why he hasn't already done it

in his many years in office ?

[aikoaiko]

44. You asked what I think. I think you're doing your best to sow discord.

Your stereotyped presentation of "Bernie Supporters" isn't particularly open-minded.

[cynatnite]

46. Having a different opinion that doesn't mean sowing discord...

It means having a different opinion.

Plus the OP was referring to his/her friends who are Bernie supporters...not all of his supporters.

[aikoaiko]

47. And I quote, "But you can't tell that to Sanders supporters."

Yes, he refers to all his Bernie supporting friends, but then he ends it with something unqualified.

I doubt his friends are all the same as he implies.

But you're right...having a difference of opinion is not sowing discord.

[Tipperary]

45. I have never cared for Bernie, but I cannot see a

problem with his supporters comparing policy stances.

It sounds like you do not like being disagreed with.

[Maru Kitteh]

48. I have one answer for anybody's Prancing Purity Pony routine:

"YOU KNOW WHO 'SHOULDN'T' BE PRESIDENT?"

THIS GUY:



Let's go ahead and let the Trump Party corner the market on slavish, cult-like devotion to a singular figure, believing that ONLY THEY have the answers that matter. None of us, backing any candidate, should feel comfortable with displaying that kind of blind obsequiousness to anyone.

[Blue_true]

49. What you should do is show them video of Bernie trying to explain

what he proposes and explain how he will get those things done. If they still back Bernie in the primary, find new friends.

[JI7]

50. he gets upset if he is asked about what he himself is calling for

[Blue_true]

52. Yep. nt

[YOHABLO]

53. Well the bottom line is that if we don't take the Senate and keep the House, it won't matter.

Personally, I would deter having these conversations with ''friends'' until we have some debates. We have a huge huge list of candidates and I think we should give them our attention.