Disqualifying: Biden gave paid speech supporting repuke in 2018

[wellst0nev0ter]

Biden has gotten away with so much garbage for so long, but this one is a dealbreaker in my book.

Biden got paid $200,000 to give a speech to a Republican-leaning business crowd in Michigan during which he praised GOP Congressman Fred Upton even as Democrats were clawing at his seat in the midterms, the New York Times reported Wednesday.

Though it wasn't a formal endorsement, Biden's speech praised Upton for his support of a piece of cancer research legislation (Biden's son Beau died of cancer in 2015) and called him "one of the finest guys I’ve ever worked with.” As the Times reported, that phrase quickly appeared in Republican advertising, and when Upton's Democratic challenger tried to get the former vice president to do something in response, “There was nothing but silence,” the candidate, Matt Longjohn, told the paper. (Upton ultimately won by 4.5 points, the smallest margin of his career.)

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/yw8zy7/of-course-joe-biden-supported-a-republican-in-a-dollar200k-speech

Upton is a "moderate" Republican who is antichoice and voted to repeal Obamacare, and Biden knowingly helped him win his race and ignored the Democratic challenger?

Sorry, but I support Democrats who support actual Democrats.

75 votes, 4 passes | Time left: Unlimited
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[aidbo]

1. If Sanders had done this, there would be such wailing and gnashing of teeth...

[ehrnst]

42. Well, legally speaking, a sitting rep can't do this, and he's been a career politician for decades.

So there's that.

And even if it was not a compensated appearance, it would involve someone inviting him to speak in honor of someone else, not to give his status quo stump speech.

So there's that.

[thesquanderer]

327. I don't see any issue with taking the fee. The bigger issue to me...

...is not supporting the Dem in the race, if that's indeed what happened.

Though still not something I see as "disqualifying."

[ehrnst]

330. That's an issue I have with Our Revolution

when they refused to support the winner of a Democratic primary.

Anyone who supports them is complicit in that.

[thesquanderer]

341. RE: "Anyone who supports them is complicit in that."

The problem I have with that kind of thinking is illustrated by the fact that there is no candidate (or organization) who I agree with 100%. I would not want my support for any person or group to be seen as "complicit" with every position or action taken by that person or group. But the only alternative is to support no one and nothing.

[ehrnst]

351. I don't know of anyone that I would support 100%

And I have no idea why you would think that.

Yes, there are some dealbreakers for me, but very few - unlike supporters of certain POTUS candidates, for whom one candidate has no flaws and all others are corrupt.

Bashing Democrats is one of those dealbreakers.

[thesquanderer]

355. Not necessarily bashing, but for example...

...I would not be surprised if Planned Parenthood did not support an anti-choice Democrat. That would not stop me from supporting Planned Parenthood.

[ehrnst]

417. I'm talking about POTUS candidates, not organizations. (nt)

[thesquanderer]

418. No, you were talking about "Our Revolution"

and that's what led to my reply. So candidates AND organizations.

[ehrnst]

419. I was talking about candidates, and that their support of certain orgs would be a

dealbreaker for me. Like I said, I have few one-issue "dealbreakers" concerning Democratic candidates.

Also, a candidate who dismisses Planned Parenthood in general is off my list.

I hope that clarifies things.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

43. Nonstop. 24 hrs a day.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

50. You know it!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[still_one]

80. Biden didn't endorse Upton. However, Sanders did endorse anti-abortionist Heath Mello

[aidbo]

110. So, Biden taking a $200k paid speech to help elect an anti choice Republican is better..

..than Bernie endorsing an anti choice Democrat?

Okay.

[R B Garr]

131. This is the laughable false framing that is prefacing Bernie's

drop in the polls. Biden wasn’t there to help elect anyone. He was appreciative of the cancer research.

[aidbo]

150. $200k didn't have anything to do with it? Why didn't he do it for free then?

Biden -a career politician- made this speech during the mid term election of 2018. He knew what he was doing. And Longjohn received no help from ‘Regular Ole Joe’.

Joe helped Upton win.

While we were all talking about the Blue Wave, Biden was reinforcing the Red Wall in Michigan.

[R B Garr]

161. This contrived umbrage is very obvious. Bernie's groups

Justice Democrats, et al, openly support Republicans if they support his issues.

Bernie has multiple staffers who voted against Democrats and are literally why we have Trump. They voted for Stein but are working in his campaign.

I’m glad Biden supports cancer research. I’m glad he is building a coalition to fund cancer research.

[aidbo]

251. I take no umbrage that Biden took..

..lots of money for a speech to support a republican against a democrat during the Blue Wave mid term election of 2018. I’m just shocked (shocked, I say ) at the level of hypocrisy all his supporters are displaying with regard to party support.

Was Longjohn against cancer research? Is that why Biden snubbed him? Maybe Longjohn couldn’t raise $200,000?

[R B Garr]

272. Reality is your hypocrisy is on full display. Those are Bernie talking points

and inflammatory concerns and completely self-serving. They are meant to be manipulative gotchas as if the fabricated purity standards are not met, yet Bernie’s staffers who actually did work against Democrats and directly enabled a Trump victory obviously get a pass.

Bernie’s groups have also advertised that they will support Republicans if they meet certain criteria.

I’m glad to see Biden’s cancer initiative and look forward to hearing more about it.

[thesquanderer]

325. Hiring people who supported non-dems is not the same...

...as supporting non-Dems yourself.

Not that I think this "disqualifies" either of them, I'm just pointing out a false equivalency.

[R B Garr]

328. LOL, it's worse, since you are knowingly and intentionally

working against the Democrat, the very reason we have Trump.

Biden didn’t support or endorse anyone’s campaign. He gave a speech in support of cancer research. So the false premise is yours and this entire thread.

[ehrnst]

332. +1000.

[ehrnst]

331. Supporting orgs and PACs that trash Democrats is also a deal breaker in my book.

[pnwmom]

403. Why didn't he endorse the Democrat in this hard fought race, or even take the phone calls

from the Democrat's office? Instead he took $200K to give an appreciative speech to the Republican weeks before the election.

[R B Garr]

405. What other Democrats endorsed him? Do you have proof

that Biden was contacted by that campaign? How did they find out about the cancer conference and Biden’s speech? Have you Googled the Democratic candidate? Why would Biden as a private citizen not give a speech to a cause very important to him and a great cause on a global scale?

[pnwmom]

402. He gave a speech for him weeks before the election, and refused to endorse the Des

or even speak to the Democrat's office about this.

[still_one]

406. I get it pnwmom, you don't like Biden, and I suspect you won't vote for him in the primary, and

that is cool.

[pnwmom]

409. I get it that you don't want to acknowledge that he's anything less than the perfect candidate. n/t

[still_one]

410. Not at all, Biden's made plenty of mistakes in his career, but on most issues he has

been on the right side of things, and has a solid grasp of issues internationally and domestically.

While that combination is important to me, a major factor in my support form him in the primaries is because I believe he has the best chance of winning the General Election at this time.

The smartest candidate I believe the Democrats have running is Elizabeth Warren. She has specifics, how to pay for them, and economically she is on the top of her game. I just don't think she stands a very good chance in the general election.

My top three candidates that I support, and have donated to are Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, and Elizabeth Warren.

That could change as time moves on, and we will see what happens in the debates, but I think Biden can get votes from so-called independents that the other candidates would have trouble getting.

[pnwmom]

412. Since Warren was raised in Oklahoma, I keep wondering why Biden

is considered so much stronger in the fly-over states.

People don't know her (yet) like they know him, but she has a very compelling life story. So does Kamala Harris, even if she didn't come from a fly-over state.

Also, most people don't know this about my Governor, Jay Inslee, but he was voted into elected office more than once from the red part of my state. When he took office as Governor, we still had a divided legislature (2012). He was re-elected in 2016; and in 2018, for the first time in decades, we finally went all blue. Inslee should get some credit for that. The change took place under his leadership.

[still_one]

421. Elizabeth Warren most people should know her when she was an advisor during the financial crisis,

and when she was part of President Obama's Consumer Bureau, and of course since she has been Senator of Massachusetts. But you are right, people don't really know her like Biden, and I think some of that is due to media coverage, where the focus has been on primarily on Biden and Sanders, but I think a lot of it is due to our system, where you need a lot of money to even be considered as a viable candidate, which is really sad.

I sure didn't know Jay Inslee was able to get a significant amount of cross-over votes from the red parts of Washington. I do know that Inslee one of the best in regard to the environment. Again, I think it is because of money.

I think most of the candidates will meet the minimum requirements to be in the initial debates. They need at least 1% in the polls or a minimum amount of donations, and most should meet the 1% rule, at least that is the way I think it is.

The big issue for the viability of a candidate is money.

I agree with your assessment, for whatever reason, people don't really know a lot of these candidates. Hopefully, the debates will changes that, and more money will pour into their campaigns. They need the nationwide exposure.

[George II]

271. Yes there would wailing because it's illegal.

That's why Sanders' campaigns buy a lot of his books and hand them out free at his speaking appearances to those who purchased tickets for the events. Sitting Senators can't accept speaking fees but they can receive royalties for book sales.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/128780757

His 2016 campaign spent $445,000 on books purchased from Verso Books:

https://www.fec.gov/data/disbursements/?two_year_transaction_period=2016&cycle=2016&data_type=processed&committee_id=C00577130&min_date=01%2F01%2F2015&max_date=12%2F31%2F2016&recipient_state=NY&min_amount=100000&max_amount=400000&line_number=F3P-23

[NurseJackie]

278. Sneaky or clever? I can't decide.

[katmondoo]

352. What Democrat will he bash this time around?

My guess is Biden because he is ahead

[aidbo]

381. try sticking to the topic at hand.

[Nuggets]

408. Please, we're not allowed to talk about what Sanders has fone

has done in the past without getting posts removed.
Biden bashing posts, like this one speckled with the “if Bernie had done this he’d be slaughtered “ cry of victimhood are posted daily.

[we can do it]

2. Stop, just stop.

[Thekaspervote]

117. YES YES STOP!!! Am I shouting YESSSSS!!

[Hortensis]

165. Agree! OP, honorable people don't use dishonest spin

purveyed by swiftboating specialists. Biden did nothing wrong here, and that's been well hashed over. Maintaining friendly relations with conservatives, who constitute half our nation's citizens, is a point of competence.

You must have honest reasons you could present to oppose Biden, and if you don't what the hell are you doing? Smearing Paul Wellstone, who was friendly with Republicans, like Trent Lott (!), virtually every day of his working life? Because that is how it's done.

Btw, since you're interested in Biden and cancer, how about the Biden Cancer Initiative and the Cancer Moonshot efforts to gather forces and focus their efforts "to end cancer as we know it" that VP Biden committed himself to after his elder son died? Cancer Moonshot was formed to develop vaccine-based immunotherapies for cancer, and research is on. I should warn you, I suppose, that a whole pack of pharmaceutical and biotechnology companies are involved. Please don't mistake those connections for corruption.

[Vidal]

3. Sorry, but you are going too far here.

You say "I support Democrats who support actual Democrats" as if Biden has not done that.

If you actually look at his entire record you will see that he has supported many, many Democrats.

In fact, he has done more for more Democrats than any other candidate.

This is why your post won't have much effect. You've gone too far in trying to trash Biden.

Look at his whole record, not just one event.

And oh, by the way, if we ever want to pass laws when Dems get in power we'll have to have some Republican support.
It's not a bad thing to try for bipartisan cooperation.

[wellst0nev0ter]

5. He helped a repuke win an election

A repuke who was "bipartisan" in trying to repeal Obamacare, the signature legislation of the Obama/Biden administration.

Sorry. We need to have standards, especially in this political environment.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

55. Exactly!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[lapucelle]

157. BS hired senior campaign staff who voted for Jill Stein and encouraged others to do so as well.

They helped to elect Trump.

Here's what Steiner BrieBrie had to say this week.





If a candidate cannot exercise basic good judgment in hiring those responsible for his or her messaging, that candidate has proven himself or herself to be disqualified for the responsibilities of high office.

[we can do it]

194. Thank you. The OP is dishonest swiftboating😡

[wellst0nev0ter]

196. This only makes sense

If I were supporting Bernie in the first place.

[lapucelle]

273. It makes sense no matter who you are supporting.

The truth is the truth.

It doesn't surprise me that anyone with a Wellstone handle would not be supporting BS.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/2/8/1481494/-Sierra-Blanca-Bernie-Sanders-Paul-Wellstone-a-Poor-Minority-Community-and-a-Nuclear-Waste-Dump

[whathehell]

245. What is "dishonest" about it?

I get that you don't like it, but what is specifically dishonest?

[lapucelle]

268. If BrieBrie's candidate loses again, I wouldn't be surprised to see more of the same.

In November 2016, she played the gleefully bitter Stein-voting, Trump-enabling tool for all it was worth. She disgusts me.

[shanny]

224. whataboutBernie excuses Biden?

[lapucelle]

256. Nothing excuses what BS did.

Joe Biden didn’t endorse the Republican, and what he did is not disqualifying.

[shanny]

259. "to you"

[lapucelle]

267. We all only speak for ourselves...

"including you".



Here, have a donut.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

258. For some, the "Bernie standard" applies ONLY to Bernie, not to any other candidate, including Biden.

Indeed, that's how it got its name, the "Bernie standard." Anyone else gets a pass.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[shanny]

260. +1

Indeed. For example, Not-A-Democrat! never seems to apply to folks at the right end of the spectrum, like LIEberman or Bloomberg.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

266. Good example... there are so many other examples I could cite, as I'm sure you could too.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[lapucelle]

269. BS hired Stein endorsers as campaign manager, press secretary, and senior campaign advisor.

That is the BS standard.

Biden doesn't need a pass. He hasn't hired a campaign manager, a press secretary, and a senior advisor/speech writer who worked against the Democratic Party and actively helped to put Trump in the White House.

The BS standard applies to BS alone.

[wellst0nev0ter]

279. This thread isn't about Bernie

I don't endorse Bernie, I don't plan to vote for Bernie. He is a non sequitur.

This thread is about Biden. Stay on topic.

[thesquanderer]

326. please see post #325

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287122637#post325

[lapucelle]

333. Hiring people who bitterly, gleefully & very publicly endorsed a 3rd party candidates in 2016

is certainly not the same thing as saying something nice about a Republican who worked for a bi-partisan cancer research bill.

Hiring a campaign manager, press secretary, and senior advisor/speech writer who abandoned the Party and supported a third party candidate shows a want of judgement in general and a misunderstanding of commitment to the Democratic Party, its core values, its platform, and its principles.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

54. So, why is there a different standard for Bernie?!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[George II]

78. What "different standard"? Examples please.

[ehrnst]

234. What "different standard" is there for Bernie that isn't

held by his supporters?

[Demit]

4. He supported a Republican over a member of his own party.

And that's a fact.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

68. What if it was Bernie who had done this... just imagine!! Oh boy, look out!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[BannonsLiver]

187. Push em back! Push em back!

Waaaaaaaay back!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

257. Riiiiight! Justifying different standards for Bernie... ooookay!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[BannonsLiver]

262. Rah! Rah! Sis-boom-bah!

[George II]

288. He might as well have - Sanders (not a Democrat at the time) supported a pro-life candidate....

....with a long record of anti-women's rights votes in Nebraska against a pro-choice Democrat. He also introduced several anti-abortion/women's rights bills.

Check out Heath Mello's record.

[George II]

109. He didn't support a republican. He simply thanked Upton for supporting a bipartisan bill....

.....that supported cancer research.

Yep, that's a fact.

[Demit]

158. In the middle of a campaign. In which he conspicuously declined to endorse the Democrat

running against the guy he thanked. That's a very telling fact.

[lapucelle]

275. The author of the Vice hit piece in the OP link recommended 3rd party voting in 2016.

Here Are Some People You Can Vote for Not Named Trump or Clinton

The best thing about the 2016 election is that it will be over come November. The worst thing about it is that one of the candidates will have become president.

snip===============================

But voters don't technically need to choose between the lesser of these two evils, even though it's a given that one of them will wind up in the Oval Office.

Oh, that Harry Cheadle! What a scamp!

Harry thought the Democratic nominee was "an evil".

Why would anybody take this idiot's opinion seriously?

[wellst0nev0ter]

277. You mean this satirical piece

Which lists a TOASTER as a third party candidate?

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/qbxg9x/the-people-you-can-vote-for-not-named-trump-or-clinton

Why must you reach like this?

[lapucelle]

295. The piece sings Stein's praises and links to a laudatory profile and to her campaign website,

while linking to several negative stories about the Democratic candidate.

Harry thinks that even a toaster is better voting option than either of "the two evils"!

You can trust a toaster. A toaster won't let you down. A toaster won't make paid speeches to Goldman Sachs.

[Thekaspervote]

119. Bernie openly bashes Democrats all the time including President Obama

[Demit]

151. This is whataboutism. Whatever Bernie does has nothing to do with what Biden did.

I mean, it's such a whiny argument, like kids make. "But Bernie did it too, Mom!!!" does not address what Biden did.

Which, by the way, was not bashing. It was failing to endorse a fellow Democrat because the Democrat was running against his Republican friend.

[Thekaspervote]

162. I am replying to post #68

[Demit]

172. Well, you actually replied to post #4.

[themaguffin]

232. Then why are people on this thread bringing up Bernie on his behalf in whataboutisms themselves?

[Demit]

236. Don't ask me. I'm not on either of their cheerleading squads.

[themaguffin]

239. Ok. I only asked you because you called out whataboutism.

[Demit]

242. I did. It's a stupid rebuttal no matter who it's trying to defend.

[FailureToCommunicate]

6. When your son dies of brain cancer, maybe you support someone who

supports research into that?

Just a wild guess.

Biden is more than just a calculating politician. Who knew.

[wellst0nev0ter]

7. Biden supported someone who voted to take away MY healthcare

And did it in the Year Of Our Lord 2018.

He has no excuse, and he cannot hide behind the memory of his son.

[FailureToCommunicate]

9. Okay. But I do hope you'll support in the general whomever is the nominee.

Purily tests only hurt Democrats

[wellst0nev0ter]

16. This isn't a purity test

This is a party test. Do you support the party or not? If any of us did the same thing on this forum, we would be rightfully banned.

Biden supported a Republican against a Democrat. It can't be any more black and white than that.

[Dream Girl]

61. He said something nice about him

[wellst0nev0ter]

104. During a speech in a closely contested race

Which the republicans leveraged to win.

[lapucelle]

173. BS needs to have a little chat with his press secretary

if there are going to be "party tests".

[wellst0nev0ter]

175. Do you see my signature?

"Undecided" meaning I'm not Bernie supporter.

Read it. Learn it. Live it.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

70. No doubt about that... vote blue, no matter who!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[BannonsLiver]

188. I may be wrong but it doesn't appear the OP will support the nominee

Unless it’s Bernie, or maybe Gabbard.

[FailureToCommunicate]

238. Well, that's why I said "hope"

[ehrnst]

53. He didn't endorse him for office, if that's what you're implying. (nt)

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

57. Seriously... and I spose the Democratic candidate wouldn't support cancer research?! Doubt that!!

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[emmaverybo]

303. HE isn't hiding behind his son's memory. You are acting as though he's an agent in this hit job,

a part of the argument. As far as I know he hasn’t been accused in this matter except here, and now you double down and go a step further, implying he uses his dead son when he’s attacked. Spiteful and low.

This kind of post will never change my mind about anything or anyone.

[elleng]

8. Still kicking this old story, I see.

NO thanks.

[wellst0nev0ter]

11. Actually, it hasn't been discussed

and sort of slipped under the radar. This was published back when Biden was still reportedly undecided about running, so didn't gain much traction.

Now that he is in the race, this requires an unvarnished re-examination. Do we want a candidate that coddles repukes who vote to take away Obamacare? The answer is a flat no.

[elleng]

14. Has been discussed here plenty.

[Thekaspervote]

122. Yes discussed over and over

[Demsrule86]

321. This has even discussed at least twice

[Demsrule86]

322. As I said it has been discussed...here are three...took me two minutes to find.

I like Joe Biden but - Democratic Underground. 1
https://www.democraticunderground.com/128712987. 1

Mar 04, 2019 · Upton— who touted Biden’s de facto endorsement at a debate the very next day—went on to defeat his Democratic challenger Matt Longjohn by 4.5 points in the battleground district. ... I like Joe Biden and would support him if he runs . If I were to vote in a presidential primary today, I would vote for: ... 2019 Democratic Underground…


Is Biden justified in doing this? ( I don't think so) Maybe I'm wrong. 2
Biden’s Paid Speech Buoyed the G.O.P. in Midwest Battleground
Joseph R. Biden Jr. swept into Benton Harbor, Mich., three weeks before the November elections, in the midst of his quest to reclaim the Midwest for Democrats. He took the stage at Lake Michigan College as Representative Fred Upton, a long-serving Republican from the area, faced the toughest race ...

https://www.democraticunderground.net/100211714116

[Thekaspervote]

121. Oh they just never give up ... old story indeed

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

287. That never stops old Bernie stories from being repeated over and over and over again...

But hey, it's Bernie, so, I guess he's fair game under the "Bernie Standard." (Just one of many examples I could cite.)


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[hlthe2b]

10. His affection for Upton is in part because of the Republican's work to support the cancer research

initiative Biden undertook after his son Beau’s death from brain cancer. Upton was a more moderate incumbent R, with little chance of being unseated.

I'm not saying this changes anyone's opinions on the speech or support given, but it is only HONEST to consider the explanation.

[wellst0nev0ter]

12. Upton voted to repeal Obamacare

Which makes him a hypocrite and I don't understand why Biden would undermine a FELLOW DEMOCRAT to support this guy.

[hlthe2b]

73. Never said he didn't. But one sided discussions are dishonest.

[wellst0nev0ter]

107. The way you framed it

makes it seems Biden injected his personal views in a way that harmed a fellow Democrat.

[hlthe2b]

130. Now that is disingenuous as hell and you know it.

You don’t move anyone to your side with such tactics

[wellst0nev0ter]

137. Is this not what you wrote?

His AFFECTION (emphasis mine) for Upton is in part because of the Republican's work to support the cancer research initiative Biden undertook after his son Beau’s death from brain cancer.

If that's not personal feeling taking precedence over what's good for the Democratic party, then I don't know what is.

From the Times' article:

The local Democratic Party pleaded with Mr. Biden to repair what it saw as a damaging error, to no avail. On Nov. 6, Mr. Upton defeated his Democratic challenger by four and a half percentage points.

[hlthe2b]

143. It is what has been REPORTED word for word...

" initiative Biden undertook after his son Beau’s death from brain cancer. His praise seemed to come from a genuine place."

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/1/24/18195926/joe-biden-2020-speech-fred-upton

And yes, you will not convince ANYONE by attacking other Dems so irresponsibly. 40% of us are undecided and that very likely underestimates the Democratic-leaning general public. So, keep being deceptive in your tactics and see where that gets you. Others that see you continually doing so will simply ignore you, as they should

[wellst0nev0ter]

198. His praise being genuine does not make it any better

It just shows his utter lack of judgement.

[elleng]

15. Yes, Thanks

[Demit]

26. Biden refused to endorse Upton's Democratic opponent, who went on to lose by less than 5%.

[Vidal]

13. Upton, Dingell, Brooks, & Deutch Reintroduce Gun Violence Reduction Bill: the Jake Laird Act

Upton is a good guy.

Today, during National Police Week and Mental Health Awareness Month, U.S. Representatives Fred Upton (R-MI06), Debbie Dingell (D-MI12), Susan W. Brooks (R-IN05), and Ted Deutch (D-FL22) reintroduced the Jake Laird Act, a bipartisan bill named after an Indianapolis, Indiana, police officer who was shot and killed in 2004 in the line of duty by a man who struggled with mental illness.

This bill provides grants to encourage states to adopt laws, similar to Indiana’s 2005 Jake Laird Law, that enable local law enforcement, with probable cause, to temporarily remove and retain firearms from individuals who are determined to be an imminent danger to themselves or others.

https://upton.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=401200

[wellst0nev0ter]

20. He also twice voted to repeal DC's gun laws

So, no, not quite the progressive on gun violence.

[Celerity]

97. 'Upton is a good guy.'

Really?
























Upton has changed his views to the hard right on climate change in an effort to win the committee chairmanship.

Fred Upton’s Climate Changeup

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/01/fred-upton-global-warming/

Late last week, Upton coauthored a Wall Street Journal op-ed with Tim Phillips, the president of Americans for Prosperity, a conservative group that has opposed action on climate change. In it, the pair wrote that a new EPA regulation to curb greenhouse gas emissions, which took effect on Sunday, “presumes that carbon is a problem in need of regulation. We are not convinced.” They also decried the carbon rules as “an unconstitutional power grab that will kill millions of jobs.”

Phillips’ position is not surprising. Denying climate change is an institutional priority for AFP, which has received millions from fossil fuel interests, including $5 million from the philanthropic arm of the oil and gas giant Koch Industries. AFP has even coordinated a climate change-denying “Hot Air Tour,” which made a stop in Cancun last month during the UN climate summit there.

snip

Upton claimed there is “no real science to verify” that cutting emissions would stave off climate change.

In the months since Republicans claimed the House, Upton’s taken a much harsher stance against regulating emissions. He faced stiff competition from more conservative members for the energy and commerce committee for the chairmanship, and he had to overcome complaints that he was “too moderate” for the post. (Then there’s the money factor: Koch was among Upton’s top contributors this election cycle, along with several other energy companies.)





Joe Biden’s Paid Speech Buoyed the G.O.P. in Midwest Battleground

The former vice president's address in October helped Fred Upton, a vulnerable Republican, win re-election in Michigan.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/23/us/politics/biden-speech-fred-upton.html

snip

But Mr. Biden’s appearance in Michigan plainly set his lucrative personal activities at odds with what some Democrats saw as his duty to the party, linking him with a civic group seen as tilting to the right and undermining Democrats’ effort to defeat Mr. Upton, a powerful lawmaker who in 2017 helped craft a bill to repeal the Affordable Care Act.


Finally, this Biden stance is also very problematic for me, very:


Joe Biden: "I like Dick Cheney, for real. I think he is a decent man."

[Kaleva]

17. Are you saying you won't support him if he wins the nomination?

If you will support and vote for him in the general, assuming he is the nominee, then your argument that this issue disqualifies him is hyperbole.

[wellst0nev0ter]

18. Unlike Biden, I'm a pragmatist

Of course I'll support him in the general, I don't want trump or any repuke to win. Unlike Biden.

I'll be holding my nose though.

[Kaleva]

92. So this doesn't actually disqualify him then.

[wellst0nev0ter]

125. Disqualifies him from my primary vote and yours n/t

[Kaleva]

155. None of the Dem candidates are disqualified in my opinion.

The fact they are running for the nomination qualifies them.

[Demit]

27. This is still primary season. It's not a time to assume anyone will be the nominee.

[at140]

64. Hit the nail!

Do not mix primary preferences with general!

[Kaleva]

101. The reality is no candidate this primary is disqualified.

Because how can one say a certain candidate is disqualified during the primary but then be willing to support that very same person in the general unless one sells out?

Truth is, we support all the Dem candidates. Some more then others.

[Demit]

170. I don't support all the Dem candidates. That would be weird.

"I'm rooting for ALL the contestants to win!" is not a thing.

[Kaleva]

177. I didn't say I'm rooting for all to win

I'm working for Kamala Harris to win the nomination but I have nothing against any of the other candidates and none are disqualified. I support the other candidates in as much as they have the right to fight for the nomination and I wish them all the best of luck.

[Demit]

185. I support their right to vie for the nomination too.

I think you are taking the OP too literally. He or she was using "disqualifying" as a rhetorical device, not to declare that some official body should force Biden out of the race. I have reasons that "disqualify"—in my mind—certain of the candidates too. And here's where I make the obligatory pledge that I of course will vote for the Democrat in the general election, even if it's one of them.

But I don't go so far as to wish them luck. They'll have to make their own luck.

[revmclaren]

19. Will you vote for Biden

if he is the Democratic nominee... Yes or no???



ONLY!!! 2019 and beyond.

[wellst0nev0ter]

21. See post above

Unlike Biden, I support EVERY Democrat in the general election.

[revmclaren]

29. Well, since you have such high convictions about

people who don't vote Democratic, you would of course never support a candidate that hired staff that voted against the Democratic candidate in the last election...RIGHT?



ONLY!!! 2019 and beyond.

[wellst0nev0ter]

30. Are you talking about Bernie Sanders?

I'm an agnostic about him. Hence my label "undecided."

[TCJ70]

33. Hmmm...

This does seem to be the primary strategy of Biden supporters towards undecideds:

Bring up Bernie Sanders in any context, related or not, in order to "win" and discredit whoever you're talking to.

[revmclaren]

41. I'll be looking forward to seeing your undecided status change to supporting

a candidate with anticipation as well.



Bookmarking thread.


ONLY!!! 2019 and beyond.

[Autumn]

89. Another strategy I've noticed is "Don't make the candidate talk about actual issues,

you might wash the inevitability dust off!"

[revmclaren]

37. So your answer is yes then. One must keep

His or her strict political values, RIGHT?



Good to know. I will be looking forward to seeing your undecided status change to supporting a candidate with anticipation.

ONLY!!! 2019 and beyond.

[LongtimeAZDem]

22. Blind partisan hatred is destroying this country; I hope for something better

[wellst0nev0ter]

28. Stupidly supporting repukes is destroying this country

I want a candidate who will fight to take power from the other side, not undermine his own party.

[ehrnst]

47. You mean like hiring staff that are known for opposing Democrats? (nt)

[wellst0nev0ter]

56. Why do you assume I support Bernie?

Do you literally have no other response?

Coincidentally, that is why I'm cold on Bernie, he seems to lack the capacity to engage in honest, good-faith discussion.

[ehrnst]

63. No, I didn't assume that about you.

I was making a point that there are other candidates who have the issue that you referred to.

[wellst0nev0ter]

205. But they aren't frontrunners

In my view, Joe the Biden doesn't deserve that status.

[ehrnst]

233. Maybe we're not thinking of the same other POTUS candidates. (nt)

[George II]

49. Once again, he did NOT "support" Upton, he spoke about Upton's help in getting....

....a bipartisan bill passed that would promote cancer research. Remember, Biden's son died of cancer.

Also lost in all of this is that Upton was re-elected by the SMALLEST margin ever, perhaps Biden's appearance hurt Upton?

The linked article is an outright hit piece that blatantly distorts the facts and reality.

[wellst0nev0ter]

59. Upton tried to repeal Obamacare

But apparently that doesn't concern you or Biden.

And Biden's appearance certainly didn't help Upton's DEMOCRATIC opponent win.

[LongtimeAZDem]

66. And vilifying him for doing so says more about the attacker's character than Biden's, IMO

[LakeArenal]

114. The repetitive attackers.

It’s the same cast of characters everyday all day. It almost seems like a job for some people.

[Thekaspervote]

128. Yup!

[shanny]

386. Thank you.

[wellst0nev0ter]

390. You're welcome

I can't ignore positive replies, right?

[George II]

24. This has been posted several times in the past couple of months. People should dig into.....

....the background of the organization that he addressed, what their work is, and maybe even what Biden did with the $200,000 he received.

The false implication is that it was a campaign event, which it most certainly was not. Biden did NOT "knowingly help" Upton to win.

[wellst0nev0ter]

25. It was used in Upton's campaign advertising

Biden knew what he was doing.

[George II]

34. Yes, he knew what he was doing. It wasn't a campaign event.

From a NY Times article on this:

Several people involved in planning the event said Mr. Upton, 65, had no role in arranging Mr. Biden’s appearance, and Mr. Upton said he was not involved. There is no evidence Mr. Biden was motivated to praise the lawmaker by anything other than sincere admiration, stemming from Mr. Upton’s role in crafting the 21st Century Cures Act after the death of Mr. Biden’s elder son, Beau, from cancer in 2015.

Bill Russo, a spokesman for Mr. Biden, said the research-funding legislation was the foundation of Mr. Biden’s relationship with Mr. Upton.

“It was one of the few bipartisan bills passed in an otherwise deeply divided and gridlocked Congress,” Mr. Russo said. “Vice President Biden believes to his core that you can disagree politically on a lot and still work together in good faith on issues of common cause — like funding cancer research.”

I'm sure that any time cancer research conflicts with politics, Biden will choose cancer research every time.

[wellst0nev0ter]

38. Biden supported a repuke who voted to repeal Obamacare

Why that is not a dealbreaker for Biden I just don't understand.

[cwydro]

44. So you would not vote for Biden if he is the eventual nominee?

Asking for a friend.

[Demit]

35. He didn't endorse the Democrat running against Upton. That's what's worth digging into.

Who cares about the money he made, I don't. I'm more interested in the fact a Democrat refused to support a Democrat.

[George II]

52. In that case, dig away.

[Demit]

67. I don't have to. The boosters for whom he can do no wrong should, though.

[still_one]

40. This is a intentional distortion and misrepresentation, and the OP knows it.

Biden was there to praise Upton for his support of a piece of cancer research legislation. It was NOT an endorsement of Upton in the election.

[wellst0nev0ter]

46. From the NYT article

Mr. Biden’s remarks, coming amid a wide-ranging discourse on American politics, quickly appeared in Republican advertising. The local Democratic Party pleaded with Mr. Biden to repair what it saw as a damaging error, to no avail. On Nov. 6, Mr. Upton defeated his Democratic challenger by four and a half percentage points.

Maybe it wasn't an official endorsement, but Biden is disqualified for acting so recklessly and stupidly in service of repukes.

[still_one]

69. I stand by what I said, and if you think this kind of distorted trash is helping Sanders, the polls

don't indicate it.

So you go right ahead an "disqualify" Biden. The voters will decide that thank-you

[wellst0nev0ter]

129. Why do you people assume I support Sanders?

What is something I said? Point to it.

[Thekaspervote]

134. You nailed that one!!

[ehrnst]

31. Perhaps you missed this:

"Though *it wasn't a formal endorsement, Biden's speech praised Upton for his support of a piece of cancer research legislation* (Biden's son Beau died of cancer in 2015) and called him "one of the finest guys I’ve ever worked with.”

[wellst0nev0ter]

36. It's true

And republicans made campaign flyers of the event.

[ehrnst]

45. If Republican approval of a Democrat is disqualifying...

Then there is at least one other candidate that is FAR more disqualified.

[wellst0nev0ter]

51. Republicans approved Upton's challenger?

No, they used every weapon they had at their disposal, including Biden's completely unnecessary speech.

We'll see if Upton endorses Biden in the general (spoiler: no he won't)

[ehrnst]

60. No, that wasn't what I was talking about.

I was referring to Democratic candidates that Republicans show favor to, or use for their own purposes - you mentioned that "republicans made campaign flyers of the event."

[Demit]

93. Who are you referring to, specifically?

I remember Democrats favoring Joe Lieberman, after he lost the Democratic primary to Ned Lamont then went on to form his own party to run in the general. Yeah, I thought that was pretty shitty, and a show of the power status quo protecting its members against newcomers.

But I don't know who the Republicans are who show favor to Dem candidates. Did a Republican refuse to support a Republican in some race? Who are you referring to?

[ehrnst]

98. No, I wasn't talking about Lieberman.

I was talking about Democratic candidates who have been the beneficiary of Republican corporate superpac funded ads, to help them against an opponent.

“American Crossroads and Bernie Sanders helped Nevada caucus-goers see right through Hillary Clinton’s manufactured zeal on immigration reform after spewing virulent Trump-like rhetoric—and that one-two punch shaved Clinton’s 50-point lead a year ago to a slim, single digit win,” Steven Law, Crossroads CEO and president, said in a statement.

[wellst0nev0ter]

102. Republicans use Democrats against Other Democrats

And some people here apparently approve of that.

[ehrnst]

139. GOP dark money superpacs spend lots of money doing that. (nt)

[Tipperary]

32. Nope. nt

[50 Shades Of Blue]

39. So do I.

[Raven123]

48. Regardless of The relationship Joe has(d) with Upton, the timing of the speech was questionable

Three weeks before an election in a battleground state just makes no sense. It is not as if the date of the election was a secret. While I don’t find this disqualifying in the general election, it just affirms my decision to support someone else in the primary.

Coupled with Biden’s “epiphany” statement, I wonder if he he learned anything about dealing with the GOP as VP. Why would Joe think he can work with the GOP better than Obama? If he has so much gravitas why didn’t he use it as VP? Or why wasn’t it effective?

[Demit]

254. Why he would think he can work with the GOP better than Obama is a GREAT question to ask.

Maybe it's the reason that has to stay unspoken: simply, that he's white. Maybe it's because he has signaled over the years and in so many ways that he's sympathetic to conservative ideas, more so than his former boss.

But I hope somebody asks him this question and I hope that honest ole authentic Joe will answer it.

[EveHammond13]

58. zzzzzzzzzz

does repuke mean you have to puke again? because I definitely have that feeling.

[wellst0nev0ter]

62. First of all, welcome to DU

and "repuke" is a term we have always used on this forum since it was founded. As you know, we are not very fond of repubs.

[EveHammond13]

65. zzzzzzzzz

[RelativelyJones]

71. Why did you vote "Supporting another candidate anyway" but claim you are Undecided?

[LongtimeAZDem]

72. Good catch, and good question

[wellst0nev0ter]

94. Like I said, undecided, multiple "nopes"

[lapucelle]

296. So the speech wasn't really the deal breaker then,

but the expectation is that it must be a disqualifying deal breaker for any other primary voter.

So this doesn't actually disqualify him then.

https://upload.democraticunderground.com/1287122637#post92

Disqualifies him from my primary vote and yours n/t

https://upload.democraticunderground.com/1287122637#post125

[shanny]

388. Do you think that somehow "undecided" is the same as

all candidates are equally acceptable? News Flash: it isn't...so no, not a good question or a good catch.

[LakeArenal]

81. !!!!!!

Now that’s a good investigation!!!

[wellst0nev0ter]

82. Biden was never my first choice

But this act disqualifies him completely, so I'm voting for another candidate in the Primary.

[RelativelyJones]

91. Your choice.

[Hekate]

195. You have two dozen other choices in the Primary, so big deal

If Joe Biden is our candidate in the General, what then? Continue to undercut our most qualified pick?

I'm sure you can find some other issue than cancer research and Joe Biden's dead son to pick at. I can hardly wait.

[wellst0nev0ter]

206. No, I'm not stupid

I don't give a leg up to repuke candidates, unlike Biden.

[EveHammond13]

160. LOL. busted.

[BannonsLiver]

192. The OP is a Sanders supporter

The play here is to make us think they are not by using the undecided label.

[wellst0nev0ter]

203. How am I a sander's supporter

In this year, in this primary race?

Show me.

[RelativelyJones]

235. I wondered and asked. The OP said Sanders is not in their top 3...unless they are being disingenuous

[BannonsLiver]

240. That appears to be the case.

[RelativelyJones]

241. Indeed it does.

[wellst0nev0ter]

248. Show proof or stand down

Enough with the baseless insinuations.

[BannonsLiver]

261. Stand down?

What is this, a bank robbery?

[NYMinute]

74. Another useless rant from a supporter of someone in disguise

This has been posted here dozens of times with no effect.

Ex politicians give paid speeches. (Just as water is wet, ice is cold and salt is salty). It is not "news".

But, it is your right to keep posting such garbage. It will not sway a single Biden supporter.

[wellst0nev0ter]

84. Still undecided, pal

But if there was a way to display candidates I'm NOT supporting, there would be multiple names affixed to my signature.

[RelativelyJones]

95. Enquiring minds want to know.

[wellst0nev0ter]

99. Biden's certainly at the top of the "nope" list

along with Gillibrand, Seth Moulton, Tim Ryan and the rest of the squishes.

[RelativelyJones]

112. Ok, who's on your list of preferred candidates? Have you made an argument why they are the best

choice?

[wellst0nev0ter]

120. Warren, Booker, Harris

are at the top of my list, in no particular order.

[RelativelyJones]

132. Fair enough, all great candidates. Then why not make an argument for them instead of this strangely

worded poll and distorted information?

[wellst0nev0ter]

249. I'm not fully in support of either of the candidates

But I do know Biden is out, and urge others to reconsider their support for him.

[earthshine]

179. It certainly has effect on us "undecideds."

Biden is far too cozy with republicans. To him, the Senate is a good ole boys club. Everybody is friends, here.

If Biden is elected, the republican Senate will pull him to the right instead of Biden pulling them to the left or center. This is because he will be willing to compromise, and the republicans will not.

[NYMinute]

230. By a 2:1 margin, based on the poll in the OP

People are sticking with Biden.

Only 1 person has changed his/her mind about Biden.

Democracy is so very wonderful.

[earthshine]

237. It's obvious that you didn't understand my post. Too busy typing to read, eh?

Democracy is so very wonderful.

If you can keep it. -- Ben Franklin

[flyingfysh]

75. I guess we need to look elsewhere for an absolutely perfect candidate

The problem is that I don't think Jesus is eligible to run in this election; he wasn't born in the US.

[ehrnst]

79. And he'd certainly be under attack as someone polling in the lead...

ahead of other men.

[LakeArenal]

83. Jesus is perfect because he's fictional.

[elias7]

178. Perhaps you mean his deification is fictional?

I’m pretty sure Jesus is a non-fictional character. But we’ve got to make sure he only loves the right (or left) neighbor.

[LakeArenal]

181. Yes. No such thing as divinity.

Except for fudge and frosting.

[elias7]

310. Pretty heavy. Now we're needing definitions.

Hard to believe or disbelieve in anything if no one is talking about the same thing.

I mean, what do you mean by divinity? If you're talking about an invisible man (always a man for some reason) in the sky pulling strings of humanity that he (don't they know the divine transcends gender?) created in his (again) image, you are pushing against a very concrete idea. Which may be good for Trump voters but does not really take into account more sophisticated views of the infinite, the divine, the transcendent - concepts that are more difficult to define or even think about.

[LongtimeAZDem]

191. It's a serious debate; I hold with the the "legendary" position, in that there was likely one

or more real people at the core of the story, but, like Robin Hood, the actual details have been lost, and what we have cannot be trusted to be accurate.

[wellst0nev0ter]

86. There are better candidates than Biden out there

You of all people should know that.

[Thekaspervote]

138. That maybe, but are they electable? The polls so far say no

[LakeArenal]

76. Shocking investigative info....

Biden was best friends with McCain.
Did you know McCain is a REPUBLICAN?
OMG.

Both my parents were Republicans.
I hate them so much.


(Not)

[wellst0nev0ter]

87. Unlike Upton

McCain didn't vote to repeal Obamacare.

[LakeArenal]

96. Only because he had brain cancer.

So we can only be bipartisan with the Pukes you approve of.

Good to know.

[wellst0nev0ter]

100. So McCain would have voted against Obamacare

if he was healthy and hypocritical?

Good to know. Stop giving aid and comfort to repukes.

[LakeArenal]

103. Get over the hyperbole.

Aid and comfort. Egads you are dramatic.

[Demit]

106. There's nothing wrong with being friends with members of the other party.

If you decline to endorse a fellow Democrat because he's running against your friend, though, that's when it's a problem. And that's what Biden did in Michigan last year, decline to endorse the Democrat running against Fred Upton. That's when people rightly question where your loyalties lie.

[LakeArenal]

118. OMG again. I have actually supported the Republicans locally.

Because they are friends. And the Dem running was someone new to the area.

Missed out on the purity points, I guess.

[wellst0nev0ter]

123. Hopefully their policies align with you views

Or else you're just shooting yourself in the foot, like the trumpanzees.

[LakeArenal]

133. Some don't. That's how it's supposed to work

You are just all vaporous over the fact that Biden’s lead in the real world is WAY ahead.

Way ahead. Fux News even. 18 points ahead. So ... double digits. That makes it way!!!! AHEAD.

Yippee.

[wellst0nev0ter]

142. Both Lieberman and John Edwards

Were frontrunners at this point in the 2004 and 2008 elections respectively.

Things change. Yippee.

[LakeArenal]

159. 18 points. Double digits. Since he announced.

Double digits, baby.
Yippee kyo kyay!!!

You hoping for some sex scandal? Cuz you just ain’t makin’ it on these petty attributions.

Must be driving you crazy cuz you keep posting the same ole same ole everyday.

And no one but the same ole same ole every day every day agree with you.

And we same ole same ole Biden supporters never ever say they changed one bit of their support.

And everyday Biden is double digits. That more than 10 points. Today, almost 20.

So you keep searching for your bits like it’s your job.

Bless your heart.

[wellst0nev0ter]

164. So you'd support Lieberman and Edwards if they're frontrunners?

Good to know.

[LakeArenal]

174. That's really dumb.

Is that your push poll?

That is way too hypothetical?
Not running. Never will.

That’s like saying If Susan Sarandon was ahead. Never happening.

This stuff may be your living but I actually have a real life so I’m going to have to step out of your fantasy life.

Have a good day and I’ll see you I’m sure tomorrow on this topic or one very similar.

[Demit]

176. Let me know when you're the former VP of the party contemplating a run for president

and a fellow Democrat asks for your endorsement.

[democratisphere]

77. Part of Joe Biden's success is his ability to reach across the aisle

and get support from some rethuglicons on specific key issues. Disqualifying? Quite the opposite!

[wellst0nev0ter]

90. How many repukes voted for Obamacare?

Answer: Zero. And especially not Upton.

Bipartisanship is a lie, which the repukes have proven again and again. We need someone who is capable of leading in this political moment, and that person is clearly not Biden.

[LibFarmer]

85. Another "Biden not pure" thread

[wellst0nev0ter]

88. God forbid Democrats exercise some standards

Crazy, right?

[LongtimeAZDem]

105. The standard that Biden exercised here is that of a decent human being. That you have such a

problem with that disqualifies your opinions for me.

[wellst0nev0ter]

108. Then why didn't he campaign with Upton's Democratic opponent?

Answer me that.

[LongtimeAZDem]

111. I don't know, but that doesn't change my statement

[wellst0nev0ter]

124. Do Decent Human Beings vote to repeal the ACA?

or is that not a dealbreaker for you or Biden?

[LongtimeAZDem]

126. Biden didn't do that, so your question is dishonest. That the person he was decent to

did something I dislike does not reflect on Biden.

[wellst0nev0ter]

146. It does reflect on his decisionmaking

Biden has a long history of ceding and giving the leg up to repukes.

[LongtimeAZDem]

152. Only in a positive way, unlike your own position, IMO.

[R B Garr]

144. Decent humans support cancer research. Glad to see the

coalition forming thanks to Biden to fund that endeavor.

[wellst0nev0ter]

148. Do decent people vote to repeal the ACA?

Why would Biden provide support for that "decent person" over the actual Democrat?

[R B Garr]

153. Your whole premise is contrived. Biden was appreciative

of the cancer research.

[MarcA]

135. Agreed with what you have posted but trying to present facts

and differing opinions to a Candidate X-can-do-anything-they-want-and-be-excused
crowd is ultimately useless. Democrats and DU should realize that many non-aligned
citizens have to be encouraged to vote and making endless excuses for a candidate
will not do it. BTW, their decisions can not be "alerted". Something to think about.

[wellst0nev0ter]

140. Yes, I know it can be a fruitless effort for some corners

But this information needs to be out there for the undecideds.

[Thekaspervote]

141. Yes, it is craziness if you are backing someone that is not electable

[EveHammond13]

163. standards. like booing Hillary at our Convention on national tv. #Standards

[emmaverybo]

304. I question the standards a post like this shows. To me, a lack of them.

[BannonsLiver]

263. And they're not winning many converts either.

What a surprise people here would support a good Dem.

[R B Garr]

113. LOL! Bernie's group Justice Democrats, et al, openly support Republicans

if they supposedly embrace certain issues.

Bernie has staffers who actually voted against Democrats—they voted for Stein, yet they are working on his campaign.

I’m so glad Biden supports the issue of cancer research. 👌

[wellst0nev0ter]

115. Who says I support Bernie?

For the record, I'm not, partially because of this reason.

[R B Garr]

116. lol

[TCJ70]

171. It's easier to dismiss you if they label you a Sanders supporter. N/t

[LongtimeAZDem]

182. No, it's just that such bilious attacks are ususally associated with a particular campaign; so

if incorrect, it's an honest mistake.

[wellst0nev0ter]

219. Thank you

n/t

[BannonsLiver]

200. Nah, but it is easier to see the true motivation.

[brooklynite]

127. Interesting that there's a call out for giving a paid speech...

...which every former President and Vice President does.

[R B Garr]

136. And a speech about cancer. Cancer.

smh

[wellst0nev0ter]

154. A speech for a Republican in a tight race

lending the "bipartisan" cred to an antichoice, anti-Obamacare puke.

[brooklynite]

167. Nope: a speech to a business group. That the candidate was there was incidental.

[R B Garr]

168. The speech wasn't "for a Republican". This laughable false framing

is prefacing Bernie’s drop in the polls. This isn’t the first time Democrats have been lied about and it looks like people have caught on.

[wellst0nev0ter]

193. I don't give two hoots about Bernie

Biden, however, gave a right-wing, anti-choice, anti-ACA Republican bipartisan cover to prevail in a battleground district. If that doesn't concern you, then what does?

[R B Garr]

270. Biden gave a speech appreciative of cancer funding. It wasn't

to help a Republican. I’m thrilled with Biden’s cancer initiative and look forward to hearing more about it. I’m not interested in your distractions,

If you’re not interested in Bernie’s staffers voting third party, maybe you could start a thread about how that helped Republicans, and not just in one district. It helped every single one of them, in every state, county, city, from sea to shining sea. You must be outraged. I still am.

[wellst0nev0ter]

276. No matter what you say, the Repukes think differently

And will use ANY bone Democrats throw them to win and maintain power

from the NYT article:

The greatest impact of Mr. Biden’s speech, however, was outside the lecture hall. His remarks about Mr. Upton ricocheted through Michigan’s Sixth Congressional District. Mr. Upton alluded to Mr. Biden’s praise in a debate with Mr. Longjohn the next day, and his campaign sent out a mailer stressing Mr. Upton’s bipartisan streak, including Mr. Biden’s description of him as “the reason we’re going to beat cancer.”

A business-backed Republican group, Defending Main Street, ran digital ads on Facebook showing a grinning Mr. Biden and the crucial quote — “Fred Upton is one of the finest guys I’ve ever worked with” — above a mock version of the former vice president’s signature.

Mr. Lester, the local Democratic chairman, said he strove to contain the damage. In an email to Mr. Biden’s staff, Mr. Lester implored the former vice president to back Mr. Longjohn: “Surely VP Biden did not intend to endorse Mr. Upton and slight the local Democratic candidate here,” he wrote.

Mr. Longjohn, the former national health officer of the YMCA, said in an interview that he had been disappointed to see Mr. Biden “clap Mr. Upton on the back in an establishment political way.” He said his campaign had reached out to Mr. Biden’s staff through an intermediary, seeking to discuss his involvement in the race.

“There was nothing but silence,” Mr. Longjohn said. “We had just requested a phone call and there was no response.”

This is NOT how you beat Republicans. This is how you give them ammo. And for this, he does not have my vote in the primary. The general is another matter.

[R B Garr]

300. You keep misrepresenting. The article you linked to is not NYT. It's Vice,

and I saw the anti-Hillary article by the author, among other things I would consider scoffable.

Your whole premise is overly wrought with innuendo and typical smears with no proof, just bogus connections and coincidences that are not provable.

Maybe Longjohn lost all on his own. Feel free to Google his name and see what predicament he was in with a personal claim he made about himself.

In the meantime, it's just absolutely bizarre and frankly sickening that you think people meeting to fund/discuss cancer research are to be condemned. It's sickening, actually. I'm very encouraged about Biden's cancer initiative. Let anyone and everyone who wants to contribute to that endeavor join in. Fuck cancer.

[wellst0nev0ter]

301. The repuke congressman campaigned on Biden's speech

If that's not enough to disgust you, then you are not playing to win.

The Vice article is based on the NYT article, which it linked. I decided to use Vice because there was no paywall.

I'm not aware of any anti-Hillary article.

[R B Garr]

305. Biden gave a speech about cancer research. Here are the Sanders staffers who voted third party:

Co-Chairman: Nina Turner - Jill Stein voter
National Press Secretary: Briahna Joy Gray - Jill Stein voter
Campaign Speechwriter: David Sirota - Jill Stein voter
Top campaign adviser: Cornell West - Jill Stein voter

You should start a thread condemning the facts admitted by these staffers that they did not support the Democrat. Have you started that thread yet...I'll check as I've been out doing errands. I'll look for your thread that confirms actual actions instead of over wrought innuendo and coincidences.

[George II]

302. When Biden's additional tax returns are released soon we'll see what he did with the $150,000....

....(it wasn't $200,000). I would not be surprised, but won't guarantee it, if he gave some if not all to support cancer research.

THAT was the point of the appearance, to support a foundation that contributes to cancer research. Despite their protestations, this wasn't a campaign event and it was not an endorsement of Upton.

I guess since Biden poses a threat to the other candidates (and the "undecideds", hahahaha!) anything that can be done to criticize him will be done.

[stonecutter357]

145. #fakenews !

[R B Garr]

149. Exactly! Very fack.

[Loki Liesmith]

147. Can't imagine caring

[Laelth]

156. Water under the bridge. Joe's not perfect, but neither am I.

Do I wish Joe were more principled and less of an opportunist? Yes. Will I care when he becomes President and my party controls the executive branch of the Federal Government? No.

-Laelth

[Peacetrain]

169. That is just ludicrous.. Biden heads up the Cancer Initiative..

and you think we are going to limit support only coming from our side of the ledger.. get a grip already

https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video?fr=mcsaoffblock&p=the+cancer+moon+shot#id=1&vid=9200815933dd3861d220f6c04a98244a&action=view

[BannonsLiver]

180. Oh goodie the new disqualifying meme is here.

I was worried it wouldn’t come till next week.

[LongtimeAZDem]

183. "Joe wears sunglasses! Why is he opposed to solar energy?!?"

[BannonsLiver]

184. Disqualified!1!1!!!!

[andym]

186. It's disqualifying to praise someone for sponsoring a key cancer research bill????

Actually, I am a big supporter of cancer research and didn't realize Biden did this. Reaching across the aisle to proffer praise when someone does something to benefit Americans is a good thing AFAIK. I am liking Biden even more than I did. I have to even more seriously consider supporting him in the primaries.

[wellst0nev0ter]

189. It's disqualifying to praise someone

who voted against Obamacare.

What's the point of cancer research if you can't afford the treatment?

[andym]

222. IMHO, praising someone who accomplished some good, for the good that they did

is constructive and doesn't mean that you support them in all things-- that is too simplistic and an example of tribal thinking. Basically, there is nothing wrong in praising an opponent for the good they have done. If a murderer goes out and saves people's lives in an earthquake, they certainly should be praised for the good they have done, but that doesn't excuse their wrongs. So why praise at all? To show that good individual acts are recognized as such and to encourage other good acts from such folks.

[wellst0nev0ter]

225. He didn't say anything about Upton's efforts to repeal ACA

so the praise helps Upton and hurts Matt Longjohn, the democratic challenger who actually had a chance to defeat the antichoice goop.

[andym]

297. My point goes beyond the implications for that particular election and is far more general

and dare I say more important.

[BannonsLiver]

197. Hear, hear!

[wellst0nev0ter]

199. Support Democrats, Don't Undermine Them

From the NYT article:

Eric Lester, a retired physician who chaired the Democratic Party in Berrien County, Mich., during the midterms, said he viewed Mr. Biden’s supportive remarks about Mr. Upton as a betrayal. Mr. Lester, who attended the speech, said he had confronted an aide to Mr. Biden in the hallway, telling him the former vice president had badly damaged the Democratic cause.

“It just gives Fred Upton cover and makes it possible for him to continue to pretend to be a useful, bipartisan fellow,” Mr. Lester recalled saying, adding, “I entered the hall with positive feelings about Mr. Biden and felt very frustrated.”

[Downtown Hound]

201. "Support Democrats, Don't Undermine Them"

Irony much?

[wellst0nev0ter]

202. Yeah, from the crowd who says "Vote Blue, No Matter Who"

yet is okay with providing aid and comfort to the enemy.

[samnsara]

204. for THIS we are gonna re elect trump? seriously?

[wellst0nev0ter]

207. There are better fighters than Biden n/t

[samnsara]

252. im not convinced

[BannonsLiver]

208. Some hope for that if they can't have purity.

Never mind the rest of us, apparently.

[wellst0nev0ter]

211. This goes beyond purity

This is actively helping an enemy repuke win.

[BannonsLiver]

214. Righhhhht

[wellst0nev0ter]

215. I swear, only Democrats do this to themselves

and you wonder why we have trouble winning elections.

[BannonsLiver]

217. Thank God you're here to show us the way.

[wellst0nev0ter]

218. First Rule: Always Support Democrats

[BannonsLiver]

220. Glad to see you coming around.

[wellst0nev0ter]

223. Second Rule: Shun Those That Break First Rule

[BannonsLiver]

226. Right on!

Tell me more!1!211

[sheshe2]

298. Ummhmmm

Pretty sure Biden is a Democrat.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=122637

[wellst0nev0ter]

299. And so is Matt Longjohn, the Dem challenger

The greatest impact of Mr. Biden’s speech, however, was outside the lecture hall. His remarks about Mr. Upton ricocheted through Michigan’s Sixth Congressional District. Mr. Upton alluded to Mr. Biden’s praise in a debate with Mr. Longjohn the next day, and his campaign sent out a mailer stressing Mr. Upton’s bipartisan streak, including Mr. Biden’s description of him as “the reason we’re going to beat cancer.”

A business-backed Republican group, Defending Main Street, ran digital ads on Facebook showing a grinning Mr. Biden and the crucial quote — “Fred Upton is one of the finest guys I’ve ever worked with” — above a mock version of the former vice president’s signature.

Mr. Lester, the local Democratic chairman, said he strove to contain the damage. In an email to Mr. Biden’s staff, Mr. Lester implored the former vice president to back Mr. Longjohn: “Surely VP Biden did not intend to endorse Mr. Upton and slight the local Democratic candidate here,” he wrote.

Mr. Longjohn, the former national health officer of the YMCA, said in an interview that he had been disappointed to see Mr. Biden “clap Mr. Upton on the back in an establishment political way.” He said his campaign had reached out to Mr. Biden’s staff through an intermediary, seeking to discuss his involvement in the race.

“There was nothing but silence,” Mr. Longjohn said. “We had just requested a phone call and there was no response.”

Those who don't support Democrats do not get my vote in the primary.

[TCJ70]

210. Did I miss the primary? Aren't we still choosing a general candidate? n/t

[wellst0nev0ter]

212. Haven't you heard? Joe's the presumptive candidate

So shut up and clap

[BlueTsunami2018]

209. Couldn't care less.

We’re in too much danger to nitpick our way to defeat and the end of the country as we know it. The election is too important to worry about something like this. It’s minor and irrelevant.

[wellst0nev0ter]

213. Wish Joe could've followed your advice

during the LAST ELECTION CYCLE.

[bearsfootball516]

216. Still supporting him.

[Polly Hennessey]

221. Who cares.

Joe will make a great president. I certainly will support him.

[calguy]

227. This stupid poll is Bernie supporters trying to discredit Joe

It ain't working.

[wellst0nev0ter]

228. Point to where I'm a Bernie supporter

I'll wait.

[emmaverybo]

229. I just finished replying to a Bernie post shouting "disqualifying" and found that good sense

Prevailed to hide it.
We should not solicit the disqualification of any democratic primaries candidate.
Such posts are unduly inflammatory.
Let the Republicans divide us. Let them dig dirt on the nominee.
Go ahead and present the info that is concerning, but leave the loaded language off.

[BannonsLiver]

231. But that would prevent virtue signaling and purity displays.

[emmaverybo]

246. I am suspicious. Two DISQUALIFYING posts this morning, one upon the other, against Bernie

then Biden.

[BannonsLiver]

247. The others were responses to this terrible OP.

[TCJ70]

253. You've got the order reversed...This one was posted, then a different poster...

...posted THREE "disqualifying" posts about Bernie which were promptly removed.

[emmaverybo]

264. So this was a backatcha. It probably should be removed as well. All DISQUALIFIED postings

should either drop the loaded language in the headline or be removed.
I pushed back against the Bernie post, the content of which, aside from the headline, was misleading.
A poster can say a particular action or position, to the poster’s mind, is disqualifying. That’s about it, as far as I’m concerned.

[TCJ70]

265. No. This one (about Biden) was first. N/t

[emmaverybo]

285. I was corrected on that by two other members who said Bernie post was first. So I am still

suspicious as to how and why these DISQUALIFYING alert posts showed up this morning. All should
go.

[wellst0nev0ter]

291. Mine was first

The other two "DISQUALIFYING" posts were mocking mine, under the false assumption that I'm a berniebro.

[emmaverybo]

292. Solves that. nt

[TCJ70]

306. Well...I only posted in one of the Bernie threads.

Here’s a link:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=122951

As you can see, the start time of that thread is 11am while the start time for THIS thread is 8:30am.

[PBC_Democrat]

243. Not a disqualifier in my book

Sure, I wish he wouldn't have done the speech but I worry about the future of our country.

I believe we (Ds) need to find someone that begin the process of re-uniting the American people. I have no faith that the Rs will look for a person with that ability.

The Second Civil War is a fantastic podcast that details the ideological split in our country.

I think VP Biden can win ... and I think he can pull in enough R votes to get the attention of R politicians. That being said, I think his age is a major factor.

All in all, I could happily vote for him.

[mcar]

244. What has Biden gotten away with?

Biden has gotten away with so much garbage for so long

[wellst0nev0ter]

250. He was for forced birth before he was against it, for one

And his botched Anita Hill testimony, for another.

[beaglelover]

255. This is weak sauce.

[lapucelle]

274. Harry Cheadle, the author of the Vice hit-piece in the OP link, recommended 3rd party voting in 2016

The best thing about the 2016 election is that it will be over come November. The worst thing about it is that one of the candidates will have become president.

snip===============================

But voters don't technically need to choose between the lesser of these two evils, even though it's a given that one of them will wind up in the Oval Office.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/qbxg9x/the-people-you-can-vote-for-not-named-trump-or-clinton

Dr. Jill was so proud of Harry's support that she used an excerpt from that hit piece on her 2016 campaign website.

[wellst0nev0ter]

280. The piece is clearly satirical

He mocks every single candidate in that article, including... a toaster.

This is a desperate reach, and you should be ashamed.

[lapucelle]

281. No it isn't.

If your conscience compels you to not lend your ballot to Trump or Clinton for whatever reason, or if you just want to have a "Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos" excuse later on when the country really slides into hell, you have options. Here are a few:

[wellst0nev0ter]

283. Any reasonable person who reads the quote you cited

knows the author is mocking third party voters. What you are doing is nakedly misleading, stop it.

[lapucelle]

293. Oh that Harry!

He clearly admires Dr. Stein.

Mr Cheadle links to negative stories about the Democratic candidate. Not so for Dr. Jill. There is one link to a policy page from her campaign website and another to a Counterpunch story on Dr. Jill's many virtues.



It doesn't work on me, dear.

[wellst0nev0ter]

294. This further proves you're not interested in a good faith discussion

The author was linking to a laundry list of her policy goals, not endorsing her. I am done talking to you about this.

[lapucelle]

282. Alternately, perhaps the Harry Cheadle Vice hit piece you linked to is "satitical".

Oh that Harry.

[wellst0nev0ter]

284. This is cringeworthy

stop.

[lapucelle]

289. Maybe you can add a voting option that reads:

"Wait, isn't Harry Cheadle a satirist?"

[lapucelle]

286. He doesn't mock Stein.

Since that whole Ralph Nader thing in 2000, the Green Party has faded from view, but it's still out there waiting for liberal Democrats to come around. Activist Jill Stein, the Green Party's presumptive nominee, has for years been promoting an agenda that's basically Bernie Sanders–plus: A $15 federal minimum wage! Free college! An end to the war on drugs! Single-payer healthcare! Nuclear disarmament! No more blind support of Israel! A "Green New Deal" that would give everyone a job plus end our dependence on oil! Voting Green, like voting Libertarian, has always been an exercise in imagining the world as you want it to be rather than how it is. However, for a lot of people, backing Stein over Clinton is the ethical choice, like eating local or putting solar panels on your roof. (In case you were wondering, yes, there is what-if-Bernie-teamed-up-with-the-Greens fan fiction floating around out there.)

Harry isn't mocking Stein; he's mocking the "two evils".

Even a toaster would be better than the Democrat!

You can trust a toaster. A toaster won't let you down. A toaster won't make paid speeches to Goldman Sachs.

[wellst0nev0ter]

290. ...

Voting Green, like voting Libertarian, has always been an exercise in imagining the world as you want it to be rather than how it is.

However, for a lot of people, backing Stein over Clinton is the ethical choice, like eating local or putting solar panels on your roof.

I am done talking to you on this. If you refuse to see the evidence right in front of your eyes, I can't help you.

[still_one]

307. You were done when you created the push poll

[R B Garr]

309. Brilliant, lapucelle! I was just looking up Harry and also saw he has a definite bias

in his anti-Democrat library. At least this explains why this article was linked instead of NYT and it explains how the author filled in the blanks with his own version of events.

You've nailed it again, lapucelle.

[lapucelle]

311. And the gaslighting didn't work.

Did you know that the piece is "satire" and I "should be ashamed of myself" for linking to it?

And donuts were enjoyed by all.

[BannonsLiver]

312. The OP is an epic fail.

One person said it changed their mind.

Womp Womp!

[lapucelle]

313. And that one vote was from someone who was supporting Harris (not Biden) on May 10.

[R B Garr]

314. Yes, the gaslighting and shaming didn't work.

And shaming people for cancer research is really bizarre.

This one was definitely donuts! 🍩

[wasupaloopa]

308. Attacking the candidate who has the biggest backing

and the best chance to build a base that will beat trump is supporting trump.

[betsuni]

315. "paid speech supporting rebuke"

This again?

[JonLP24]

316. It doesn't help for me especially with the rest of his record

[LongtimeAZDem]

317. You support a man who refused to get a job when his son was on Welfare

So, is giving a speech about cancer support really that bad?

[JonLP24]

318. This is new information but I looked into it I don't have any issues with it

Liberty Union “people found it difficult to support themselves while engaging in full-time political work,” Michael Parenti, one of those people, wrote in the Massachusetts Review in the summer of 1975. “Some held jobs that allowed free time for campaign activities, while others lived off unemployment insurance.”

Sanders, according to an article in 1974 in the Bennington Banner, was one of them. He was on unemployment for a few months in 1971. In subsequent Liberty Union campaigns he advocated for “the doing away with all time limitations for unemployment benefits.”

“His work was to be a politician,” Guma said. “He put everything into what he was doing.”

“I don’t know what he did for money,” Troville said. “Everything was always campaigning. Everything was always organizing. Everything was always writing.”

“He was totally involved in his attempts at running for office,” Marvin Fishman, who knew him at the time, told me on the phone.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/07/bernie-sanders-vermont-119927

I have been homeless before but it looks like he found the job he was made for.

[LongtimeAZDem]

319. Here:

Link to tweet

[JonLP24]

320. He noticed with that 4% he did well in Burlington so ran for Mayor of Burlington

I already am well aware of his run.

I'm not going to dump Sanders for Biden or if I do dump Sanders I'm not gonna go with Biden.

[loyalsister]

323. It definitely looks bad

But the vote for the partial birth abortion ban during the second Bush admin is a bigger problem to me. That slanderous description of killing an infant rather than the reality of late term abortion took root during the 90s. And that rhetoric is what Trump expounded on recently.
That is the same strategy of humanizing the fetus by calling early electronic detection a heartbeat.

[stonecutter357]

324. you change my mind about Biden ......

JK

[UniteFightBack]

335. Talk about bashing Democratic figures...complete with a poll !!! With friends like this.....nt

[wellst0nev0ter]

336. "With Friends Like These"

Indeed. From the NYT:

The greatest impact of Mr. Biden’s speech, however, was outside the lecture hall. His remarks about Mr. Upton ricocheted through Michigan’s Sixth Congressional District. Mr. Upton alluded to Mr. Biden’s praise in a debate with Mr. Longjohn the next day, and his campaign sent out a mailer stressing Mr. Upton’s bipartisan streak, including Mr. Biden’s description of him as “the reason we’re going to beat cancer.”

A business-backed Republican group, Defending Main Street, ran digital ads on Facebook showing a grinning Mr. Biden and the crucial quote — “Fred Upton is one of the finest guys I’ve ever worked with” — above a mock version of the former vice president’s signature.

Mr. Lester, the local Democratic chairman, said he strove to contain the damage. In an email to Mr. Biden’s staff, Mr. Lester implored the former vice president to back Mr. Longjohn: “Surely VP Biden did not intend to endorse Mr. Upton and slight the local Democratic candidate here,” he wrote.

Mr. Longjohn, the former national health officer of the YMCA, said in an interview that he had been disappointed to see Mr. Biden “clap Mr. Upton on the back in an establishment political way.” He said his campaign had reached out to Mr. Biden’s staff through an intermediary, seeking to discuss his involvement in the race.

“There was nothing but silence,” Mr. Longjohn said. “We had just requested a phone call and there was no response.”

Explain that, fellow Democrat.

[UniteFightBack]

338. So fucking what with this OLD NEWS. Not interested and neither are the people who don't follow

politics...remember them???

[wellst0nev0ter]

343. We'll see how irrelevant it is

when it's brought up in the debates.

"Mr. Biden, why did you fail to support a fellow Democrat?"

[UniteFightBack]

345. Oh yeah I'm sure we'll have plenty of time on the debate stage for everybody to say their piece....

[wellst0nev0ter]

347. Someone will have to say it, if they want to be the candidate

Mark my words.

[saidsimplesimon]

329. If Biden wins the primary,

I will work as hard as I can, giving as much as I can afford. This same promise applies to my two preferred candidates, Senators Warren and Harris. They can both win in a general election, and perhaps by the greatest margins.

Attacking women is fodder for those who cheer at rumpie's rallies, not so much for the majority of voters.

There are some who will sight polls and pundits as reasons to select Biden at the top of the ticket. They are mistaken. I still recall that Mrs. Clinton was guaranteed a landslide victory. She did not lose because she was woman. We need a blue wave in 2020.

imho

[wellst0nev0ter]

337. I personally want a fighter for the Democratic candidate

Biden is clearly not up to the job.

[UniteFightBack]

334. I'm so sick of people and their bullshit dealbreakers when the country is burning down around them.

[wellst0nev0ter]

339. Didn't say I'll vote against him in the general

I just don't like him in the primary. If you can't deal with the sharp elbows in primary season, then get out of the kitchen.

[UniteFightBack]

342. Yeah sharp elbows worked out great in 2016 huh? This is DIFFERENT....don't you get that? nt

[wellst0nev0ter]

346. This year will be worse. Look at the field.

True, Hillary had to waste time because a CERTAIN candidate refused to drop out when the math was against him. But that was after Super Tuesday, not well before like now.

If we can't have these debates now of all times, when can we? We're not electing Dear Leader.

[Doodley]

340. Biden: "You will not hear me speak ill of another Democrat." OP are you listening?

[UniteFightBack]

344. Me neither...I have not trashed other Dems in this forum...there is no reason for it...even

Sanders does not deserve trashing!!!!!!!!!

[wellst0nev0ter]

349. Not sure why you bring up Sanders

The guy is not in my radar.

This thread is about Biden. Stay on topic.

[wellst0nev0ter]

348. I repeat:

The greatest impact of Mr. Biden’s speech, however, was outside the lecture hall. His remarks about Mr. Upton ricocheted through Michigan’s Sixth Congressional District. Mr. Upton alluded to Mr. Biden’s praise in a debate with Mr. Longjohn the next day, and his campaign sent out a mailer stressing Mr. Upton’s bipartisan streak, including Mr. Biden’s description of him as “the reason we’re going to beat cancer.”

A business-backed Republican group, Defending Main Street, ran digital ads on Facebook showing a grinning Mr. Biden and the crucial quote — “Fred Upton is one of the finest guys I’ve ever worked with” — above a mock version of the former vice president’s signature.

Mr. Lester, the local Democratic chairman, said he strove to contain the damage. In an email to Mr. Biden’s staff, Mr. Lester implored the former vice president to back Mr. Longjohn: “Surely VP Biden did not intend to endorse Mr. Upton and slight the local Democratic candidate here,” he wrote.

Mr. Longjohn, the former national health officer of the YMCA, said in an interview that he had been disappointed to see Mr. Biden “clap Mr. Upton on the back in an establishment political way.” He said his campaign had reached out to Mr. Biden’s staff through an intermediary, seeking to discuss his involvement in the race.

“There was nothing but silence,” Mr. Longjohn said. “We had just requested a phone call and there was no response.”

[Doodley]

392. You give reasons to support Biden, because he"s happy to say when a lawmaker supports something good

regardless of party politics. Better than being one who can never reach out to the other side. We can be like Trump and call our opponents names and trade in hate, or we can try to unite.

[wellst0nev0ter]

399. And that same lawmaker uses that praise

As campaign material to beat a REAL democrat.

This is NOT how you fight repukes. We keep handing out olive branches, while they come armed with flamethrowers.

[Doodley]

400. Fine. If you prefer to divide, carry on. Biden is a unity candidate as was Obama. You are welcome to

support another candidate, one who can never praise anything an opponent does, but please don't attack Democratic candidates.

[wellst0nev0ter]

401. Yes, I won't undermine a Democrat in favor of a repuke

Now if only someone will tell Biden that.

[Doodley]

411. You already have done. By saying Biden should be disqualified, you give succor to Trump supporters.

[wellst0nev0ter]

413. So don't criticize Democrats

or you'll feed the trumpanzee boogiemen? Is that your take?

[BannonsLiver]

350. The OP loathes Biden

A lot of Sanders supporters seem to be mad he’s not doing as well as last time.

[wellst0nev0ter]

353. Final warning.

Do not describe me as a Bernie Sanders supporter. I have indicated more than once that I am undecided, and that Sanders is nowhere near my top preference.

Let's try to have a good-faith discussion, shall we?

[BannonsLiver]

354. A good faith discussion?

You should have thought that through when you posted that divisive OP. A good start might be a self delete.

[LongtimeAZDem]

356. Agreed

[wellst0nev0ter]

357. You Have Yet To Disprove The Contents

of my posts.

Tell me how I'm wrong so that we may engage in good faith.

[BannonsLiver]

358. So not interested in a "good faith" discussion then.

I’m not surprised.

[wellst0nev0ter]

359. Totally opposite of what I said

But par for the course, I guess.

[BannonsLiver]

360. What am I supposed to "disprove"?

That Biden give the speech? He clearly did. I guess what you want is poutrage over it from fellow posters? That doesn’t seem to have worked out too well.

[wellst0nev0ter]

361. Biden gave a speech

He praised the republican candidate for what appears to be apolitical reasons, but the repuke candidate campaigned on that speech anyway.

Biden did nothing to reverse the damage to the real Demcratic candidate.

Maybe Biden did not mean to give indirect support to Upton, I don't care. That episode demonstrates a mind-boggling, and frankly disqualifying lack of judgement by someone you expect to lead the Democratic Party.

Now your turn.

[BannonsLiver]

362. Okay

And...I don’t give a fuck?

I’m not sure what reaction you are looking for.

[wellst0nev0ter]

363. Why don't you give a fuck?

Explain.

[BannonsLiver]

364. Well

It starts with me not giving a fuck, and then I don’t give a fuck some more. It’s just not really that big of a deal to me. Does that make me a bad Democrat?

I like Biden a lot but I’m not sure he will be my candidate. I mean I’m sure Bernie’s done some things you don’t like so nobody is perfect.

[wellst0nev0ter]

367. Funny

you seem to give more of a fuck about me, a non-Bernie voter, than what Biden did during a close race.

Must be my imagination.

[BannonsLiver]

368. Yes, it is.

[wellst0nev0ter]

369. Think you mean this:

[BannonsLiver]

370. Why bring Killer Mike into this?

[wellst0nev0ter]

371. Try again

[BannonsLiver]

373. Try what again?

[wellst0nev0ter]

376. Try editing your post again

You'll hit the right rapper, eventually.

[BannonsLiver]

379. I see no need for that. The choice was appropriate.

[LongtimeAZDem]

365. Probably because he, like me, is not offended by people behaving as decent human beings

[wellst0nev0ter]

366. Voting to repeal ACA is not decent

[LongtimeAZDem]

372. Which he did not do. He made a speech to a business group, and praised the cancer support work of

a person who event on to vote against the ACA.

To say that Biden voted to repeal ACA is a deplorable lie, and it makes your "good faith" comment a sad, twisted joke.

[wellst0nev0ter]

374. You clearly misread what I said

I meant Upton. Biden just had nice things to say about a politician who voted to repeal his and Obama's signature legislation.

[LongtimeAZDem]

375. And that you find evil in Biden saying nice things about someone, anyone, is reprehensible

and it makes me sick.

[BannonsLiver]

377. It's really sad actually.

But be careful the poster might give you a “final warning” or order you to “stand down”.

[LongtimeAZDem]

383. I feel like I need a shower just for replying

[BannonsLiver]

384. Really ugly nasty stuff meant to divide

I take heart in the fact the OP was such an embarrassing failure (100-2 at the moment). The author also embarrassed themselves pretty badly too.

[LongtimeAZDem]

385. All they have is their hate

[wellst0nev0ter]

391. Then don't

[wellst0nev0ter]

378. Biden gave a repuke campaign material

which the repuke used to beat the Democratic opponent.

There is nice, and then there is stupid. What Biden did was so monumentally detrimental the country Democratic chair had to speak up.

[LongtimeAZDem]

380. Like Biden, I refuse to lower myself to the level of the other side.

[wellst0nev0ter]

382. Playing smart is not "lowering yourself"

He could have waited until after the election to praise a repuke congressman, instead of helping Upton win by four points.

[Peacetrain]

387. Is it by the individual response, or letter , or complete sentence?

but the op does not seem to have worked out the way you hoped.. some days just go that way..

[wellst0nev0ter]

389. I just wanted to get a pulse from the Biden backers

to see if reaching across the aisle to give repukes campaign material concerns you.

You've all resoundingly answered my question.

[lapucelle]

393. Now that your question has been answered, perhaps you can answer mine.

Why did you link to a story written by a writer who characterized the 2016 Democratic candidate as one of "two evils" and said such laudatory things about Jill Stein that she used a long quote on her on her 2016 campaign website?

[R B Garr]

396. I doubt people are worried about something that didn't happen,

such as pretending Biden was there to give “campaign material” and to endorse his campaign. Biden gave a speech appreciative of cancer research.

You’ve stepped up the embellishments, I see. Now Biden was there to hand off “campaign materials”.

[wellst0nev0ter]

398. His speech was written in repuke literature

Repukes, give them their due, know how to play the game. This is not how you play the game.

[R B Garr]

407. More things that didn't happen. Now you're fabricating about

Biden writing Republican literature...? Lots of continued fabrications. I’ve lost count, actually.

[wellst0nev0ter]

414. Try re-reading my post again

Then responding to it's actual content, not what you imagine seeing.

[R B Garr]

416. You should take your own advice and not embellish content,

but that wouldn’t keep this thread kicked....

[wellst0nev0ter]

420. You don't have to reply, you know

Yet here we are

[R B Garr]

394. Biden wasn't there for his campaign so he didn't give

him “campaign material”. You keep embellishing and fabricating, now with saying Biden handed off campaign material. This whole thread is gaslighting.

[R B Garr]

395. What a desperate fabrication. Biden didn't give him "campaign material"

Biden gave an appreciative speech about cancer research. Biden wasn’t there for his campaign.

[trueblue2007]

397. I agree wiht you. should have been self delete just as you said. (my ipinion)

[Honeycombe8]

404. This is disturbing. I know he's friends w/Repubs, but this was going too far. nt

[welivetotreadonkings]

415. Huh.

When I posted the original article the day it was published it was immediately taken down by the mods for being a right wing smear. As if the NYT is the Daily Caller or something lol. Thanks for posting this, this honestly hasn't been discussed enough and Biden should rightfully be questioned on this matter.

[wellst0nev0ter]

422. Sorry that happened to you

I really wish people wouldn't circle the wagons around their preferred candidates, but here we are.

[George II]

423. FYI:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287126057

[BannonsLiver]

424. I doubt the OP would have any problem with that.

Bernie can do no wrong in the eyes of his supporters.

[wellst0nev0ter]

425. Can you read the signature?

It clearly says "undecided," meaning I don't support Bernie Sanders, like I have said repeatedly in this thread.

How many times must I tell you the same thing before it gets through your head?

[BannonsLiver]

426. What signature?

[wellst0nev0ter]

427. It's like talking to a wall.

[BannonsLiver]

428. What is?

[melman]

429. Holy moly

That is not good. Not good at all.