A Clinton-era centrist Democrat explains why it's time to give democratic socialists a chance

[Uncle Joe]

(snip)

The core reason, DeLong argues, is political. The policies he supports depend on a responsible center-right partner to succeed. They’re premised on the understanding that at least a faction of the Republican Party would be willing to support market-friendly ideas like Obamacare or a cap-and-trade system for climate change. This is no longer the case, if it ever were.

“Barack Obama rolls into office with Mitt Romney’s health care policy, with John McCain’s climate policy, with Bill Clinton’s tax policy, and George H.W. Bush’s foreign policy,” DeLong notes. “And did George H.W. Bush, did Mitt Romney, did John McCain say a single good word about anything Barack Obama ever did over the course of eight solid years? No, they fucking did not.”

The result, he argues, is the nature of the Democratic Party needs to shift. Rather than being a center-left coalition dominated by market-friendly ideas designed to attract conservative support, the energy of the coalition should come from the left and its broad, sweeping ideas. Market-friendly neoliberals, rather than pushing their own ideology, should work to improve ideas on the left. This, he believes, is the most effective and sustainable basis for Democratic politics and policy for the foreseeable future.

What follows is a transcript of our conversation, edited for length and clarity.

(snip)

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/3/4/18246381/democrats-clinton-sanders-left-brad-delong

This is an excellent read.

[Faux pas]

1. Kickin'

[Squinch]

2. Support whatever policies you want, and I'll probably be right there with you. But call them

"socialism" and you lose voters unnecessarily over a semantic argument, and that is really, really stupid.

Also, the notion that Democrats need to do anything in response to the fact that republicans didn't give Obama credit for things is ridiculous too.

[Uncle Joe]

4. The article is well worth reading Squinch,

it's more than just being about "credit."

[Squinch]

8. Seems to me like it was a scary bedtime story with "neo-liberals" as the monster.

And gleefully discussing the dissssaaaaraaaaayy!!!!!1! in the Democratic party. No thank you.

I have respect for center and left leaning Democrats. I know we need both and don't care to throw either group under the bus.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

3. Excellent read.

[empedocles]

5. An important factor in 'deciding' on a Dem candidate is who matches up

well against where trump is most vulnerable [if he is still around], and if trump is not around, who his replacement is. Matchups are key to winning a given game.

Too soon, imho, to lock in to a given /policycandidate, or exclude much, now. Dems need to win, and win big in 2020.

[zipplewrath]

6. This would get removed

“Barack Obama rolls into office with Mitt Romney’s health care policy, with John McCain’s climate policy, with Bill Clinton’s tax policy, and George H.W. Bush’s foreign policy,”

It occurs to me that if this was an OP instead of a quote within an article, it would get removed. I do wonder if any of our current candidates will be willing to run on "Clinton's tax policy".

[Uncle Joe]

7. It's a quote from Brad Delong in the interview.

On Edit I misread your post.

[CrossingTheRubicon]

12. Spot on. It is a slur on the Democratic Party and a slur towards President Obama.

More BS.

[BannonsLiver]

37. You'll find that a lot in the purity ranks.

[Kablooie]

9. Anything that is labeled "socialist" is likely to fail in an election.

Too much baggage with that word.
It's a shame Bernie burdens himself with that label.

[CrossingTheRubicon]

13. He's authentic.

[comradebillyboy]

21. A highly overrated virtue IMHO.

[stevesinpa]

14. no it's not a shame Bernie Sanders "burdens" himself with the socialist label,

the shame is that so many Americans are so ignorant about socialism and refuse to actually educate themselves.

[Squinch]

17. SO you go ahead and insist they educate themselves so they like the label. Get back to us

and tell us how that works out.

I'll support candidates that support the policies and don't insist on semantic purity when it works against our goals.

[Kablooie]

18. Most Americans think Communism when they hear "socialism"

And it also has associations with "National Socialist German Workers' Party" or NAZI, rightly or wrongly.

Yes the word also has more benign meanings but the emotional connotations from it's historical use are the most pervasive and won't be eliminated.

To use this word is to give ammunition to the opposition with no commensurate advantage for yourself.

[onit2day]

30. "Most Americans"? How do you know that? How about 'Some' Americans

Truthfully, I've yet to find anyone who thinks communism when the term 'socialism' is used yet some have a negative connotation to it at least till I mention our socialist programs already functioning and they admit they wouldn't end any of them. I suggest anytime the term comes up we make a point of calling it DEMOCRATIC Socialism where the voters decide where when and how we use it. Democratic Socialism removes the power of the state to own the means of production because the people, the voters do.

[The Polack MSgt]

28. Millions of Americans are "wrong on teh internet"...

And refuse to educate themselves. Ok. That's the pitch to get folks to vote with us?

That is a losing argument and a silly fight to have. No one over 45 has warm fuzzy feeling about "Socialism" other than old commune dwellers or inveterate hippies.

Not a large voting bloc for us to tap into.

From the late 40s until the 90s we were locked into a existential struggle with Socialism. Especially the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and its proxies. America fought them directly in Korea and Vietnam in shadows across the globe and in standing up an armed might unmatched in history.

3 generations grew up with "Duck and Cover" drills. Trillions of dollars were spent to defeat the anti-capitalist autocratic regimes opposed to us who all claimed the label - SOCIALIST.

It's beyond insulting that you cavalierly dismiss the visceral distaste for this label as lazy ignorance that can just be ignored.

Fuck Socialism in the liver - we should never allow the GOP to tack that insult on us and we should never kick in an own goal by adopting for ourselves.

Democrats are capitalists who believe that labor should reap that system's benefits along with owners - rather than all benefits accruing to the owner class.

I am not now nor have I ever been a Socialist

[onit2day]

32. Yes you are.But you mostly want to be right.You must hate FDR.

You enjoyed socialist programs if you used our hiways, public schools or police and fire departments. Ever use a library? Do you worry about foods and drugs poisoning you? Do you support the military or use the VA.? Believe in SS or Medicare? Do you accept that Capitalism is only an economic system whereas Democratic Socialism is a way of life that ensures both our freedom AND our survival. Capitalism remains intact with Democratic Socialism as we already are functioning with both but this repub cult wants to privatize all our social programs to profiteer from them. Most of the industrialized nations of the world have a socialist national healthcare system except for us. I only hear republicans demonizing Socialism, but it won't work. The times have changed and people (including 57% of republican voters) want Medicare for all. We want our socialist programs expanded. You can deny calling yourself a socialist but you still enjoy our socialist programs.

[onit2day]

33. I grew up hating China, Russia and Germany, not Socialism

[The Polack MSgt]

38. But mostly I want to win the damn elections and naming ourselves as

Socialists is fucking stoooopid.

Risk losing votes over semantics?

Sure! Why not?

After all our hearts are pure ands our cause is just. So we can ignore the proles who refuse to see our divine wisdom...

In the minds of Millions of Americans socialism = Dictatorships and failed Soviet policies.

BTW, what's up with this insulting bullshit? Anger bait doesn't change minds it just solidifies opposition:
Yes you are.But you mostly want to be right.You must hate FDR.

[Kurt V.]

15. the word socialist is not used one time in the article.

[onit2day]

25. I disagree. Time for change. We already are socialist. Don't bother to define

the term just point to the socialist programs already operating. SS, Medicare, libraries, public education, police and fire departments, VA, military, hiways, FDA, EPA, FPA, etc... which republicans all want to privatize to profiteer from them. Educate and inform your brothers. Obama bent over backwards to work across the isle, compromised on Obamacare like crazy with republicans to get their support yet not one republican voted for it. Any candidate who talks about working across the isle has blinded themselves to this republican cult that used to be a political party. There is no longer a good faith party to work with and all we succeed in doing is conceding to their demands. They don't know how to work across the isle, not since their most important issue was making Obama a one term president. Republicans will demonize any term we use about our policies or ourselves. If you hated FDR then you'll hate democratic socialism and vice-versa. Majorities want single payer, free higher ed, expand SS benefits, money out of elections, so I believe it's the issues we all want...which defines the process of democratic socialism.

[Kurt V.]

10. K&R

[DirtEdonE]

11. The gop feeds their lunatic base

We starve our rational base.

[bigtree]

16. I think this hits on something describing the mix of influences in Obama policy

...I'd like to see policy which doesn't rely on appeasing discredited conservative mores and traditions.

There are more than enough positive, productive influences among Democrats to generate policy and initiatives. So much of the republican party has proven itself a fraud and criminal in their support of Trump. There's really nothing left of that party to reach out to, so I don't want to hear any serious talk of 'working with' people who intend to end me.

[KPN]

23. [phone] re last sentence -- exactly.

[LiberalLovinLug]

19. K & R highly

This is from an invisible hand of the market will solve everything, kind of Democrat. Misnamed "moderate". I'd call him right of center. It is an honest look back and evaluation.

It may have been an honest attempt at pushing progress forward, the neo-liberal third way approach. An attempt at least to move forward, even if incremental. Write laws that have something for Republicans to at least partly agree with, allow the R's to further butcher them before passing. But at least you got something done, however minuscule. And at least it was somewhat bi-partisan, so that whatever you did get, it would have a chance to last. That approach could be interpreted by some, (not myself though) as working at least somewhat.

But we are living in a new era, made clear during Obama's term, and highlighted in the text that was bolded in this OP. If we can't even get ANY bi-partisan support for even market driven solutions, (even ones they first came up with!) then what is the freakin point? Its time to lead from the left, with ideas, and then use those 'third way' Dems and their experience, and contacts, to adapt a market friendly structure onto those goals, or at least make it more palatable to those institutions, or provide a path towards conversion from private over to public that they can live with.

[KPN]

22. I agree. It's not about economics or capitalism

so much for the lever pullers in the GOP as it is about power and control to sustain a white supremacist, misogynistic and bigotry enabled greed.

It’s not the ideas they object to. It’s the sharing, let alone relinquishment, of control.

[watoos]

20. We had a blue wave in 2018

because the majority of our candidates supported a Socialist platform.

I don't cower from a word that fascists have made into a bad talking point.

The right also made just the mention of the names Pelosi and Hillary into something negative. Hmm, I wonder if Pelosi and Hillary should have changed their names? Just asking.

[Awsi Dooger]

26. We had a blue wave because independent voters shifted away from Trump

If we don't adequately deflect the socialism tag then many of those independents will shift back.

That is the reality of the matter. I saw how effectively socialism was used here in Florida against Andrew Gillum. Rick Scott also applied it against Bill Nelson. Those two races should not have been possible to lose, given the national tilt of 2018. We won't enjoy nearly that much of a national slant in 2020. Mistaking 2020 landscape for 2018 landscape is not wise.

[onit2day]

27. Exactly watoos.Your last sentence IS the point.Well said

[KPN]

24. K&R

[marylandblue]

29. The next President will need to be a transformative one

It can't be about the old battles of center vs. left, but about redefining what it means to be a Democrat. Certain key issues will redefine the party - income inequality, immigration, climate change to name three of them. The candidate best positioned to lead thus transformation will be then next President.

[pecosbob]

31. Get on the wave or get out of the pool

[workinclasszero]

34. Great article

[seaglass]

35. Sure, Romney Healthcare that would not have passed without Ted Kennedy or the overwhelming

Democratic legislature.

[allgood33]

36. Yes, but not until they grab control of the "socialist" framing. We need to frame it for ourselves.

AOC has a pretty good handle on this...as opposed to Bernie. Our Moderates can take a lesson from her and few others among the newbies in Congress. The new women seem to have a better grasp on policy and framing the discussion.

[Uncle Joe]

39. Alexandria is most impressive, she gave an outstanding answer to Cuomo's question.