When Did Everyone Become a Socialist?

[applegrove]

When Did Everyone Become a Socialist?

March 4, 2019 at 10:57 am EST By Taegan Goddard 289 Comments

https://politicalwire.com/2019/03/04/when-did-everyone-become-a-socialist/

"SNIP.....

New York magazine: “Coolheaded Obaman technocracy is out; strident left-wing moral clarity is in. And while this atmospheric shift is felt most acutely among the left-literary crowd, it’s also bled into the general discourse, such that Teen Vogue is constantly flacking against capitalism and one of the most devastating insults in certain corners of the internet is to call someone a neoliberal.”

Steve Gardner argues that liberals should drop the term “Democratic socialism” and adopt “Progressive capitalism” instead.

.....SNIP"

[Kurt V.]

1. Socialism isn't becoming more popular. Capitalism is becoming less popular and

we don't know what the middle ground is.

[comradebillyboy]

2. Now that's an interesting perspective.

[FBaggins]

27. It's actually what recent polling indicates nt

[TheRealNorth]

3. Failures of the libertarian Free Market & Neoliberal economic policies

When people started to realize that neoliberal economic policies didn't work for main street America.

[denverbill]

4. When a Democratic candidate for President finally showed Democrats they don't have to run from it.

But 'everyone' is not a socialist. You will still find large numbers of establishment Democrats who are nearly as opposed to 'socialism' as Rush Limbaugh.

[TwilightZone]

6. Bernie's run did little to change minds where socialism is concerned nationally.

The disapproval numbers are similar to what they were in 2015. Running as a socialist nationally is going to be a serious uphill climb.

Recent WSJ/NBC poll showed 50% view socialism negatively and only 18% view it positively. 72% had reservations about a candidate identified as socialist.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-the-press/nbc-news-wsj-poll-2020-race-will-be-uphill-trump-n978331

Gallup poll in 2015 noted that 50% said they wouldn't vote for a socialist candidate.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/183713/socialist-presidential-candidates-least-appealing.aspx

[BannonsLiver]

48. Lol

Oh lort it’s getting thick.

[mia]

5. Who's everyone?

Last edited Mon Mar 4, 2019, 09:58 PM - Edit history (1)

I like the term "Progressive capitalism" a lot more than "Democratic socialism". With capitalism there is hope for those who strive to create a better life for themselves and their families. Most of our ancestors came to the United States with that hope in mind.
Our country was built by the entrepreneurial spirit.

The New Colossus

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

[Thomas Hurt]

7. Socialist is the new "N" word, that way conservatives can hate people of all skin tones.

[mia]

10. Kamala Harris: "I'm A Progressive Democrat... I'm Not A Socialist"

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/02/24/kamala_harris_im_a_progressive_democrat_im_not_a_socialist.html

[comradebillyboy]

33. Yes and I'm glad she said it.

[shanny]

8. Same day Obama did---according to goopers. Some people missed it, it was so extreme.

[hedda_foil]

12. So Sweden, Denmark , Norway and Finland are all about insalubrious anger? Interesting.

😱

[CrossingTheRubicon]

13. None of those are socialist countries. They are all liberal democracies with capitalist economic...

systems and generous social programs. They are "Social Democracies" and NOT "Democratic Socialist" states.

[hedda_foil]

15. And that's exactly what the Democratic Socialists are advocating.

[OilemFirchen]

18. No one is accusing them of being intelligent.

Just FTR.

[CrossingTheRubicon]

21. No. Democratic Socialism and Social Democracy are very different ideologies.

[earthshine]

23. Says you! Actual Democratic Socialists say they are the same.

[CrossingTheRubicon]

24. LOL. Sure. Not remotely similar ideologies.

[CrossingTheRubicon]

28. Here are two links to two good Wikipedia articles.

One on Social Democracy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_democracy

The other on Democratic Socialism:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_socialism

The two articles do a pretty admirable job elucidating the values of the two ideologies and highlighting the differences.

Let me know if you have any difficulties grasping the concepts.

[earthshine]

29. LOL. It boils down to this ...

There is much historical context in both articles. However, in the 21st century, according to the second link ...

"The Labour Party is a democratic socialist party. It believes that, by the strength of our common endeavour we achieve more than we achieve alone, so as to create, for each of us, the means to realise our true potential, and, for all of us, a community in which power, wealth, and opportunity are in the hands of the many, not the few".

21st century

:

The term also became a synonym in American politics more recently for social democracy and has remained despite being a misnomer.[113]

Ergo, where it is relevant, the two terms are the same in modern political vernacular.

Perhaps you didn't actually read the articles.

Bernie Sanders does not advocate doing away with capitalism, but in making it work for the people at large. Just like FDR.

Your opinions about him on other posts consist of laughable straw-man arguments.

[CrossingTheRubicon]

30. Under Jeremy Corbyn part of the UK Labour Party is comprised of Democratic Socialists. For sure.

This development has left Social Democrats in the party feeling like they are without a home.

You clearly did not read the article, as the differences between pro-capitalist liberal democracy (Social Democracy) and anti-capitalist pro-socialist "Democratic Socialism" that seeks to end private enterprise could not be made more clear.

Try again.

[BannonsLiver]

49. Like a lot of people who throw the term out there

That poster has almost no idea what it means.

[CrossingTheRubicon]

25. No it is not.

[Autumn]

14. Interesting? Do you not care that their people are being crushed under the heel of socialism??

All that heath care and happiness can't be good for them. Some of those countries even have affordable child care. The nerve of them





Only if needed.

[CrossingTheRubicon]

22. Not socialism.

[LanternWaste]

44. There is no 100% pure economic philosophy.

Even the freest markets posses regulation to one degree or another, while yet even the most controlled markets posses diversity to one degree or another.

Hence, while there is no pure Socialism, the is no pure Capitalism either.

When you realize each borrows from the others, you'll save yourself from writing the same irrelevancy over and over again...

[CrossingTheRubicon]

45. It isn't a matter of "purity," those things are not socialism.

[denverbill]

17. So you want to dismantle Medicare and Social Security then just like the Republicans?

You think poor children should starve rather than get food stamps and poor people should die in the streets rather than get Medicaid.

Medicare, Social Security, Food stamps and Medicaid are all SOCIALIST policies. Socialism does not mean everyone wears the same grey clothes and shops at the government store. Learn the difference.

[CrossingTheRubicon]

46. Social Security isn't socialism. Why use right-wing talking points for great liberal achievements?

Medicare, Social Security, Food stamps and Medicaid are NOT SOCIALIST policies.

They are traditional liberal Democratic programs that are paid for with the fruits of a capitalist economic system.

This BS is getting old.

[BannonsLiver]

50. "Why use right wing talking points for great liberal achievements"

Because the argument they’re making is intellectually dishonest and flawed. You know that by the fact the poster reached for these extreme examples cited in the post.

“Well if you don’t agree with me you must hate children and old people and want them dead.”

Stuff like that is when you know they are beaten, have no defense etc.

[denverbill]

53. What private entity owns Medicare and Social Security?

None. They are government owned and government run. They are socialist programs.

And they aren't paid for with 'fruits from the capitalist economic system'. They are paid with taxes. That's the first time I've ever heard taxes called the 'fruits from the capitalist economic system'.

[CrossingTheRubicon]

54. Taxes that are generaled from wealth created by an advanced capitalist economy.

If you haven't heard that before, perhaps you are moving in the wrong circles?

[denverbill]

55. Maybe it works that way in the circles on the other side of the Rubicon.

In real life, taxes are generated by enforced laws under threat of jail. They don't miraculously appear by virtue of having an advanced capitalist economy. They are paid under dictators, kings, communists, republics, socialists and oligarchies, and every other form of government, except anarchy or maybe the imaginary libertarian utopia.

[CrossingTheRubicon]

56. All civilizations have taxes, if that's your point.

So the things that taxes pay for are not "socialism."

See how that works?

[OilemFirchen]

16. What the fuck is this? Why the SNIP?

Your OP is the entirety of this mote of "journalism", consisting of two hyperlinks and cited text.

Ahhh... to be a "digital media entrepreneur". Click, click, kaching!

[TwilightZone]

19. Political Wire is a news aggregator.

It's a blog that aggregates political stories. If you look at their home page, that's the usual format. They're all like that.

From what I can see, they don't pretend to be anything else. But, your mileage may vary.

[applegrove]

31. I like the articles political wire aggregates. So I give them the traffic

since I post about 3 articles from their site a day on the DU. I can't afford a membership with them right now. I find their take on what is salient in the news really good. Sometimes they have stuff nobody else does.

[betsuni]

32. "Socialism was appealing not because it promised equality but because it looked like liberation."

Searching for identity. "It's playing the role of a place where they seek a sense of fulfillment and rootedness that they otherwise lack in their lives."

"DSA can feel like a never-ending Brown University reunion." Like the upper class, they all know each other because they go to the same schools and parties. Education is the new class. The next generation of Bobos.

[demosincebirth]

34. I'm a FDR - JFK, Democrat, plain and simple.

[demosincebirth]

35. I'm a FDR - JFK, Democrat, plain and simple. And both

Were wealthy.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

36. Socialism is the new communism. It's a universal boogeyman that engenders fear

in low-information people. When I was growing up we were taught to be afraid of communists. Since they aren't around (well, the Soviet Union isn't) the Right is banging on the "Be afraid of socialists! They're going to take your cows!" Huh?

When surveyed on individual issues -- education, medicine, environment, etc. -- 70% of the population favors the Democratic Party's positions. (There's always that 30% that thinks there were "good" Nazis, or that Fat Donnie is the Greatest President Ever.)

Now, if you tack on the label "socialist" to any one of those positions its favorability drops to 40%. The same thing happened during the 2016 election. People agreed with Hillary's positions when they were presented anonymously, but if her name was attached, watch out!

Not sure what to do here. You can't educate people who don't want to learn. In three years working as a substitute teacher at a middle school, I have some experience with this. The only thing that can be done is to present the facts to people who are still open to learning about the issues and hope they make good choices.

[stevil]

38. Totally agree

I was a fan of Hill but she had some baggage. I flipped out on election night. What a horrible morning. Weather in PS is great the last couple of days.

[stevil]

37. Fuck that

Bring back the Iron Front. I don't like violence. But if Nazis walked into my town they would be very sorry they did. The Iron Front. Not a fan of Nazis or communists.

[Voltaire2]

39. We were always here. Waiting for the collapse

of our party’s surrender to neoliberalism.

[betsuni]

40. "We were always here. Waiting for the collapse of our party's surrender to neoliberalism."

[Voltaire2]

41. Lulzd.

[betsuni]

42. "I know also, said Candide, that we must cultivate our garden.

... The whole little group entered into this laudable scheme; each one began to exercise his talent. The little plot yielded fine crops. Cunegonde was, to tell the truth, remarkably ugly; but she became an excellent pastry cook. Paquette took up embroidery; the old woman did the laundry. Everyone, down even to Brother Giroflee, did something useful; he became a very adequate carpenter, and even an honest man; and Pangloss sometimes used to say to Candide -- All events are linked together in the best of possible worlds; for, after all, if you had not been driven from a fine castle by being kicked in the backside for love of Miss Cunegonde, if you hadn't been sent before the Inquisition, if you hadn't traveled across America on foot, if you hadn't given a good sword thrust to the Barron, if you hadn't lost all your sheep from the good land of Eldorado, you wouldn't be sitting here eating candied citron and pistachios. -- That is very well put, said Candide, but we must cultivate our garden."

[Gothmog]

43. The socialist label still does not test well and would hurt the Democratic nominee if he embraces it

[GatoGordo]

47. exactly

Some of us have been quite active in Democrat politics since the 1980's. I've lived through the Cold War, the collapse of Communism and now the "rebirth" of Socialism. The vast majority of this "new guard" that present themselves for consideration at various meetings and caucuses don't know FUCK ALL about the Democratic Party, only that we "should" embrace them because we more closely conform to THEIR ideals and ideas than the Republican Party.

Carpetbaggers. Including the "Socialist" candidate for President who communes with us in a marriage of convenience.

We don't change for them. They come to the Democratic Party and "demand" we take a hard left turn and abandon the Great Middle for Hard Leftist party purity? THEY DON'T KNOW WHERE THE LOCAL DEMOCRATIC PARTY OFFICES ARE, but insist that all of our resources and infrastructure remodel itself on their world view? Fuck that! They don't offer their time, talents or treasure to the Democratic Party.

When they start caring about the Democratic Party and less about failed ideology (and offering NO ANSWERS), then we can start fawning all over them.

I'm sorry, but after the last election, when these young zealots showed up, created a ruckus, and then disappeared into the ether after THEIR CANDIDATES didn't make the cut can kiss my ass.

[SummerSnow]

51. When Americans started using this...

public education

Public transportation

Fire departments

Police departments

Public libraries

Every branch of the US military

Roads & highways

Social Security

Medicare/medicaid

Public, not private prisons & jails

Public hospitals

The Veterans Affairs Administration

Public universities

Public parks

Public toilets

Public drinking fountains

Public parking


guess we are ALL socialist ....lol


and here is a bigger list...

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2012/3/29/1078852/-75-Ways-Socialism-Has-Improved-America

[David__77]

52. "The left" and "socialism" are intimately connected throughout the world.

It's a set of worldviews and political programs. Tony Blair may be a socialist, in addition to the president of Cuba. This is not surprising, as Augusto Pinochet may have been a capitalist, along with many progressive-minded people. It's not all black and white.

[IronLionZion]

57. People like social programs and regulated competitive markets

and have problems with crony capitalism and monopoly price gouging.

Nobody here seems to want to seize the means of production.