Bernie Sanders asks supporters to join protest against Scott Walker in Burlington

[Uncle Joe]

(snip)

“Scott Walker made his name busting unions, cutting health care, and gutting funding for public education,” the statement said.

“Scott Walker’s brand of divide-and-conquer politics has no place in Burlington — the city that sparked out political revolution by election Bernie Sanders as mayor in 1981,” it added. “Can you join us in Burlington tomorrow to protest Scott Walker’s event?”

During his 2016 campaign for president, Sanders railed against Walker’s positions on corporate spending in politics, unions, education and abortion.

(snip)

“I think it’s going to be a fairly large crowd. My guess is that it will rival the number of people inside the event — you know he’s a pretty polarizing force,” Howard said. “I think it’s fair to say that every union in the Vermont labor movement is participating in some way.”

(snip)

https://vtdigger.org/2019/05/29/bernie-sanders-asks-supporters-join-protest-scott-walker-burlington/

[lapucelle]

1. "Unions have been planning for weeks to protest outside the event."

Scott faces criticism for appearing with Scott Walker at GOP event
By Xander Landen

May 8 2019

Democrats have blasted Scott for agreeing to attend the fundraiser with the former governor, whose politics lean far to the right of the moderate Republican governor.

https://vtdigger.org/2019/05/08/scott-faces-criticism-for-appearing-with-scott-walker-at-gop-event/

Better late than never.

[Uncle Joe]

2. Have any other candidates

asked their supporters to protest along side the unions?

[rpannier]

3. Good Question

Be interested if there is any response

[lapucelle]

5. Was BS actually asked to do this?

[lapucelle]

4. Was BS actually asked to do this?

It's a shame that VT re-elected the Republican governor who is hosting Walker. The governor refused to consider a paid family leave proposal, vetoed an increase in the minimum wage, and contracted with for-profit prisons to send VT's incarcerated to a Mississippi hellhole to work off their sentences.

If only we had someone to do outreach in VT to do what it takes to put a Democrat in the state house.

Somebody with local influence would be ideal, but it takes very hard work mostly done with the TV cameras off. That takes true commitment.

[Hortensis]

7. "Outreach" into VT to help awaken and reconnect its liberal

ideals and traditions to action? Before they just disappear? Apparently that governor has been posing as a moderate Repub but will be showing up to glad-hand Walker...

'I am not now, nor have I ever been, a liberal Democrat' ~ Bernie Sanders

We know. More Vermont liberals perhaps need to lose their complacency and start protecting what they thought they had. And take a good look at their state party leadership.

[Uncle Joe]

8. So your answer to my question

is no, I take it.

[lapucelle]

13. You take it wrongly then.

I don’t know whether any other politician is promoting his or her presidential ambitions by inviting rally-goers to protests organized by others. Frankly, I doubt it, even though it will generate publicity.

[Uncle Joe]

14. I believe publicity is important to this issue, having said that

I also believe it adds strength to the protests as their numbers swell.

[lapucelle]

15. Publicity for a cause is good, but appropriation for self promotion can be problematic.

Will BS's unionized campaign workers be marching?

I applaud their step in trying to put an end to the predatory culture that marked BS's previous campaign.

Unionizing to protect current workers from the discrimination, harassment, and sexual violence experienced by women who worked for him last time around may have been unprecedented, but it was necessary.

Thank goodness for whistle blowers, and thank goodness for unions that shield employees from workplace abuse!

[Uncle Joe]

16. 1. It can only be appropriated if the candidate is not sincere in regards to their support of unions

and only one candidate encourages their supporters to protest along with the workers.

If every candidate did it, there would be no appropriation.

2. The problems of sexual harassment is not "unprecedented" nor exclusively tied to Bernie's 2016 campaign or even just Presidential campaigns period.

(snip)

Welcome to campaigning in the #MeToo era. In 2016, Donald Trump’s presidential hopes were nearly derailed by a video in which he bragged about sexually assaulting women—and by accusations from more than 20 women that Trump had indeed engaged in sexual misconduct. Since then, dozens of politicians from both parties have faced allegations related to their own actions or their failure to adequately address misconduct by members of their staff.

A number of the Democrats seeking to take on Trump have dealt with controversies. A female aide in Gillibrand’s Senate office accused the senator’s team of ignoring her allegations about a senior staffer’s unwelcome advances. Sen. Kamala Harris weathered criticism after it was revealed that California had settled a sexual harassment lawsuit filed against a longtime staffer who worked for Harris in the state attorney general’s office and the US Senate. Sanders, meanwhile, has been plagued by complaints that his 2016 campaign failed to adequately address staffers’ reports of workplace misconduct. And just last week, Lucy Flores accused former Vice President Joe Biden of inappropriately touching her shoulders, smelling her hair, and kissing the back of her head at a campaign event during Flores’ 2014 run for lieutenant governor of Nevada.

Stung by the negative headlines, and facing pressure from Democratic activists and women’s groups, the 2020 campaigns say they’re taking unprecedented steps to establish safe working environments in the notoriously chaotic world of electoral politics. Mother Jones reached out to 12 Democratic campaigns to ask about the issue; five of them provided at least some details about their efforts to prevent misconduct. While the end result of these practices is yet to be seen, operatives say they’re optimistic that a new approach has emerged—one that will help ensure the values spelled out in candidates’ platforms will also be reflected in their own organizations.

A presidential campaign is a veritable HR nightmare. The successful nominee will flip from a dozen-person startup to a billion-dollar corporation operating in all 50 states in less than a year, a timeline that outpaces even the most ambitious Silicon Valley ventures. That rapid growth is largely predicated on hiring a workforce so young that it collectively can barely drink, let alone rent a car. Issues that arise span from the mundane—like bailing out an organizer who gets too many speeding tickets—to the grave: During President Barack Obama’s 2012 reelection bid, a staffer collapsed and died at the Chicago headquarters.

(snip)

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/04/metoo-2020-biden-harris-gillibrand-sanders-booker/

This is a good read on the subject.

Kudos to the whistle blowers.

[lapucelle]

17. TWENTY-FOUR whistle blowers "leaking" their letter detailing workplace abuse to journalists

is indeed unprecedented and horrifying as well. It's denial to think otherwise.

Isolated incidences of sexual harassment in various workplaces is not the same thing as an organization fueled by a pervasive, predatory culture that enabled sexual discrimination, sexual harassment, and sexual violence. Claiming "I was too busy to notice" just makes it worse.

Insincerity is not a necessary condition for appropriation. (Only if statements are tricky for some.)

There are plenty of sincere privileged people sincere in their belief that they are sincerely entitled to take, take over, or encroach upon what is not theirs because their intentions are sincere, and "Hey, it's ME!"

Hopefully what was meant to be a union protest will not be overshadowed by unfortunate grandstanding that detracts from the original purpose. Actual union leaders and members should take the lead, rather than career politicians/management. It's about Them, not HIM.

appropriate
to take (something) for one's own use, typically without the owner's or originator's permission.

[Uncle Joe]

18. You would have to be in denial

to believe that sexual harassment was exclusive to Bernie's 2016 campaign.

The article I just supplied to you is a balanced argument against your narrow supposition and no campaign to date has went further to protect and reward its' workers than Bernie's.

Sexual harassment is an institutional malady and a much more common problem than you want to want to believe, or at least willing to admit.

As I stated if every candidate running for President were to ask their supporters to join the protest lines in support of the workers, none of them could appropriate anything whether real or symbolic.

If you have any evidence of a union or protesting workers having objection to Bernie's supporters swelling their numbers and strengthening their movement on the picket line please present it because on every occasion that I have seen, this not being the first, the protesters are quite happy about it.

Bernie is not taking anything that he hasn't already argued for over 30 years, his actions are merely matching his words.

Your argument is illogical.

[lapucelle]

19. Sex discrimination, sexual harassment, sexual violence,

and a pervasive predatory culture of this scale is unprecedented.

Two dozen whistle blowers finally went to the press to have the problem addressed in the fear that it would happen again in 2020. Campaign workers unionized to ensure legal protections.

Time will tell whether or not and the degree to which the moment and the message are co-opted in the pursuit of personal ambition.

As for my argument being illogical, study up on necessary and sufficient conditions, equivocation, and the fallacy of negative proof, and then get back to me. All three logical flaws appear in your two most recent responses.

A trifecta!

[Uncle Joe]

20. Are the sufficient conditions, met by this standard

or do you have a problem just because Bernie is the one doing it?

When working-class Wisconsinites took to the streets in February of 2011, as part of what would become a historic mass mobilization against the anti-labor policies of Governor Scott Walker, they had with little support from national political figures. Republicans were with Walker and Democrats, shaken by the party’s dismal showing in the 2010 midterm elections and the rise of the right-wing Tea Party movement, were even more cautious than usual.

But Bernie Sanders spoke up. “On Wisconsin!” declared the senator from Vermont, who immediately identified Walker’s assault on public employees and their unions as “part of the concerted attack on the middle class and working families of this country by the very wealthiest people in America.”

“These guys want to return us to the 1920s when working people had virtually no rights to organize or to earn a decent living,” explained Sanders, who argued that “There are a lot of folks out there who say, ‘It doesn’t impact me, I’m not a union guy, I’m not a teacher, I’m not a civil servant.’ Let me tell you how it does matter to you. Wages are going down in this country for everybody. When you destroy unions there will be no standard at all, nobody left to negotiate decent jobs for the middle class.”

(snip)

This year, as a leading contender for the Democratic presidential nomination, he has supported critical strikes (such as the walkout by 1,700 members of United Electrical, Radio & Machine Workers of America union locals at the sprawling Wabtec locomotive plant in Erie, Pennsylvania), appeared before mass rallies of workers as “not as a candidate for president but as somebody who has spent the last 40 years of his life walking the picket lines for unionized workers” (as he did in March with members of the University Professional and Technical Employees [CWA] and AFSCME on the University of California–Los Angeles campus) and welcomed unionization of his campaign staff (by United Food and Commercial Workers Local 400, in a first for a presidential contender).

(snip)


https://www.thenation.com/article/bernie-sanders-labor-union-speech-2020/

(snip)

It’s not uncommon for a presidential candidate to get out on a picket line to show support for workers. Julián Castro, another Democratic presidential hopeful, rallied with the California workers on Thursday. And when grocery store employees went on strike in New England, several candidates either visited pickets or gave speeches to the crowds.

But it’s far more novel to use a campaign’s infrastructure in an effort to help workers in a dispute with their boss. Fervent Sanders supporters point to this type of maneuver when they claim they are trying to build a movement, not just a candidacy.

It’s not unlike what another Democratic presidential candidate, Sen. Kamala Harris (Calif.), did earlier this week, when her campaign sent out email blasts to supporters and raised $160,000 for abortion rights after Alabama passed legislation aimed at effectively barring the practice.

The Sanders camp’s collaboration with California strikers was apparently weeks in the making. The candidate delivered a speech to some of the workers during an earlier one-day strike in March. The campaign told representatives from the union to keep in touch and let them know if they could help further.

(snip)

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-campaign-strike-picket-lines_n_5cdecf96e4b09e057802f44c

The premise of your argument that protesting or striking workers would not welcome additional political support to their cause is illogical at best if not ridiculous.

[lapucelle]

21. "It's appropriation only if it's insincere". That's your necessary condition statement.

The correlative sufficient condition statement would be:

If it's appropriation then it's insincere.

If you'd rather do a syllogism, you can articulate the sufficient condition as

All appropriation is insincere.

If you're a visual learner, you might want to use a Venn diagram.

No I do not see that sufficient condition in the text you quoted.

[Uncle Joe]

22. If it's not sincere there is only appropriation

Bernie is sincere as his long history and actions are a testament to.

You can't appropriate that which you already stand for.

Now if Trump were to try it, this would be appropriation because he obviously by his actions does not care about labor.

I suspect because of your enmity toward Bernie, you simply don't want to or can't see it and any positive action by him, you view through the most negative prism.

[lapucelle]

23. That's not standard form. You originally said, "It's appropriation only if insincere".

The appropriation I originally referred to (and explicitly articulated) was of the event itself, not the issue.

I respect the work horse much more so than the show horse. Keep your head down, do the hard work, engage in quiet, consistent service whether or not anyone is watching. Win or lose, do it graciously.

That is the prism through which I evaluate candidates for high office.

[Uncle Joe]

24. The event is intricately tied to the issue of labor, you can't separate the two.

Walker is totally anti-labor and he's coming to Bernie's home state.

It would almost be malpractice for Bernie; to not support the protesters for which he has spent his entire political career supporting.

Bernie is doing the hard work and he has most definitely been a work horse for over 30 years, not just during election seasons but throughout his career.

It's just bringing more attention now because it is election season but Bernie has been consistently fighting the good fight no matter the year.

[LanternWaste]

9. Better to pretend a sincere question than to research on our own...

Better to pretend a sincere question than to research on our own only to find out the easily-found answers do not support our narrative.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

10. Better to look up the definition of a rhetorical question.

[Uncle Joe]

11. It was a sincere question.

The post I responded to said "better late than never" of course this isn't the first time that Bernie has asked his supporters to go on the picket line with protesting/striking workers but I didn't know if other candidates had done the same.

It was just a question.

[Hortensis]

6. Yes, use Walker's obscure Pity Pot tour of bitterness for attention.

Those phrases for Walker's current activities are from a Madison, WI article. Another journal called him WI's "ill will ambassador." Apparently he's going around describing Madison as now being "left of Stalingrad" and blaming evil Madison and a marijuana measure for WI voters kicking him out of office.

Any budding fascists in the VT Republican group who invited Walker to Burlington for their big fundraising dinner will have a real treat in him. And those who want more can join Walker on a cruise around the Hawaiian islands. Events will include a karaoke night. (“Tonette and I met for the first time on karaoke night at Saz’s (in Milwaukee) and we love it!”) Maybe Bernie will show up there too.

This is Walker’s second attempt at putting on a cruise. (Is that the proper term?). Back in 2017, while still in office, he and his wife planned an “inspirational” Christian cruise to Alaska. It was canceled two weeks later due to “scheduling issues,” but he has a lot more free time now.

https://www.thebozho.com/scott-walker-hawaii-cruise-vacation/