Harris allies now accusing Biden of sexism to go along with racism and homophobia?

[wyldwolf]

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/07/01/kamala-harris-sexism-joe-biden-1394035

[jalan48]

1. Looks like she's going for the trifecta.

[mcar]

25. She? Where?

This is ratfcking meant to divide Democrats. Don't fall for it.

[EffieBlack]

34. I've clearly overestimated the political sophistication of some of the folks on this board

It’s rather sad to see so many of them falling for the okey-doke

[Lisa0825]

39. +1

[mcar]

90. Yep

One would think people learned something from the 2016 election, namely, not to fall for gaslighting.

[emmaverybo]

88. She did not imply Biden was homophobic, nor have her supporters. NT

[mcar]

91. That's right

[Eliot Rosewater]

101. KGB at work and if they are successful again we DESERVE to be destroyed

[mcar]

102. Sad to say, hi you are right

[Kaleva]

2. The article appears to be more of a critique of Biden and his campaign then of Harris

[ucrdem]

6. They're complaining about Carol Moseley Braun now.

It doesn't look good.

[Mr.Bill]

10. Isn't that pretty much what the thread title says? n/t

[Kaleva]

12. Yes, yes it does but I don't think that was the OPs intent.

[emmaverybo]

35. I am not responding to what the article's angle is. I am responding to specific posts about some

comments reported in the article. All articles we discuss are not promos for a candidate or
arguments against.

[Kaleva]

38. Did you mean to reply to me?

[emmaverybo]

51. Yes. The article does not argue Harris's candidacy in part or in whole. It does not take s position

on her debate strategy. It reports on recent comments supporters have made and quotes Mosley-Braun.

It does characterize Harris’s supporters’ claims against those who have criticized her. They claim that negative comments are racist and/or sexist. The article could certainly be used to launch a thread critical of Biden.

[Kaleva]

60. The only person quoted is Watson Coleman who is a Corey Booker supporter

"But Watson Coleman and others took aim at what they considered to be a tone-deaf critique of Harris. She said the dismissal of Harris’ argument stems in large part from a focus on her gender and race: Though the Democratic primary features a record number of women, they noted that two white men in their 70s are leading so far.

“It’s disingenuous for people to say she doesn’t have a right to speak to those experiences,” added Watson Coleman. “And it’s very interesting that as a black woman, how she speaking out on these issues becomes a louder issue for response than if a white man or someone else had spoken about their particular experiences and what impassions and motivates them to run.”"

"Watson Coleman is backing Cory Booker but said she felt compelled to speak out. "

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/07/01/kamala-harris-sexism-joe-biden-1394035

[emmaverybo]

73. Fair enough. "They" then are just two people, but they do reflect some of the push-back I find to

criticism of Harris. And then, there is push back making no charge of critics being motivated by sexism and racism.

At the same time, if your point is that the headline is click-bait inflammatory, sure. I don’t think the discussion here is restricted to or by the article though.

[Kaleva]

93. My opinion of Politico is that their headlines are often 'embellished'.

They are written to attract attention but may not be all that accurate either.

[emulatorloo]

3. Ok. Best of luck. What will her team do when the half-truth attacks start on her?

Sadly they will be coming as she rises in the polls, and they won’t be coming from team Biden.

I’ll push back against them as I will do with all of our Democratic candidates.

[wyldwolf]

5. accuse Biden of kicking puppies?

[ucrdem]

4. He called her out on her busing claims.

Cue plan B.

[emulatorloo]

7. Apparently a need to project Trump's real flaws on a fellow Democratic candidate who doesn't have

those flaws. I still like her though, hope she starts focusing on her strengths.

[ucrdem]

16. Yes.

Having a plan is one thing but a plan to character assassinate a fellow Dem is another. And tell me that isn't Gillibrand standing next to her in the Politico photo.

[EffieBlack]

8. It makes me sick to see Democrats being played like this

The last time, we had the excuse that we didn’t know any better.

What will be the excuse this time?

[emulatorloo]

17. ...

[mcar]

26. Anyone who falls for this ratfcking doesn't have an excuse

[elleng]

53. Ditto.

NO DAMNED EXCUSE!

[tishaLA]

9. Mosely Braun going after Sen Harris for ambition

was stupid. Any presidential candidate is ambitious. I presume Moseley Braun was ambitious when she ran for president, too, so I have no idea why she, as a campaign surrogate, would find it troubling.

And yes, criticizing a woman's ambition is sexist even when it comes from another woman.

[emmaverybo]

14. Hard to believe Mosley-Braun would make "stupid" or sexist comments on serious political

matters. You miss the point. She is not calling out Harris’s ambition.

[emulatorloo]

19. Well said.

I like Harris. Hope she focuses on her own strengths soon.

[tishaLA]

21. Sure she was. It was right in the quote

and that's what the current representatives who support Sen Harris noticed according to the article

[emulatorloo]

18. Mosely Brown fought fair.

[tishaLA]

27. Her presidential campaign went swimmingly

[emulatorloo]

29. Aw

[emmaverybo]

11. Ironically, she used the very tactics women have been accused of using for centuries--

over-personalizing, emotionalism, trying to evoke sympathy. And she would not have used these
unorthodox debate strategies against a woman.

She definitely played old school sexual politics.

Nothing good to model here for women entering professions in which male culture is dominant.

This trifecta, as Jaylan48 posts—homophobia, racism, and sexism—are difficult claims to argue against without more backlash. It’s the trifecta to bring because it turns Biden’s strong record fighting against all three on its head.

Those mounting such a duplicitous and reputation-destroying campaign should not be rewarded.
They do know exactly what they do.

[ucrdem]

13. Yes it was the strangest thing to watch.

And no one said a word about any of that, at least not in the press. It was all "she got 'im, yeah!"

[EffieBlack]

15. This is an interesting observation made about a woman in the same debate

in the same debate in which one of the male candidates referenced his late son’s terminal cancer.

Are you woman talking about her personal experiences isn’t “old-school sexual politics.” But lodging such an accusation against a woman - especially when one doesn’t apply the same standard to a man who behaves similarly - is.

[emulatorloo]

22. Did the male candidate make a half-truth attack on a fellow Democrat over his son's terminal cancer?

No, he correctly attacked Trump.

[EffieBlack]

30. The poster wasn't talking about whether she was telling the truth (which she was) or base theirsmear

on who her perceived target was. They just flat out accused her of “over-personalizing, emotionalism, trying to evoke sympathy. And she would not have used these unorthodox debate strategies against a woman. She definitely played old school sexual politics.”

That is the very essence of a sexist smear against a female candidate.

[ucrdem]

31. No it's exactly what she did. "Your words were hurtful" ?

When is the last time a male candidate said that to a fellow Democrat on a stage? It was a shock.

[tishaLA]

47. why put quotation marks around false quotes?

she said what she said; there's no need to embellish.

[ucrdem]

50. Her actual words were "very hurtful." I shortened it. nt

[tishaLA]

54. Also an inaccurate quote with quotation marks around it.

Third time's the charm, perhaps?

[ucrdem]

56. Here's a link to the transcript. See for yourself:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/06/27/kamala_harris_vs_joe_biden_for_opposing_federal_bussing_that_little_girl_was_me.html

[tishaLA]

59. NBC has a correct transcript

that can be verified by video https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/full-transcript-2019-democratic-debate-night-two-sortable-topic-n1023601

"Very hurtful" is not a quote. And I have no idea how the false quote "your words were very hurtful" is somehow shorter than "very hurtful"

[ucrdem]

61. NBC: "I was actually very -- it was hurtful" nt

[tishaLA]

65. Right. So your corrected "quote"

isn't even a correct quote. Thanks for that.

[ucrdem]

77. I'm glad we cleared that up .

[R B Garr]

85. *1, She also shows she knows where she is going low by

acknowledging the need to find common ground. Everything after that is about selling her t-shirts...

Thanks for posting the transcript.

Edit: “and I agree with you when you commit yourself to finding common ground...”

[emulatorloo]

32. I said nothing of the sort. Stop putting words in my mouth I didn't say.

I never wrote anything remotely like “over-personalized, emotionalim, trying to evoke evoke sympathy.”

I’m actually surprised you would do that. It would never occur to me to do anything like that to another DU’er, especially you.

I’ve supported your OP’s and defended you against false attacks. When we disagree it has been over ideas and it has been civil. I would never fabricate a quote you allegedly said the way you just did to me.

[EffieBlack]

36. I mixed you up with Emmaverybo - very similar handles - my apologies

[emulatorloo]

41. Thanks. Consider self-deleting.

[Celerity]

84. when I had a wee bit too much vino I almost did the same thing (mix you and Emmaverybo up) too

a couple days back

[emulatorloo]

89. Yeah the vino is great but can play tricks on us!

[emmaverybo]

37. You are saddling another poster with my comment. NT

[emmaverybo]

40. I stand by my comment. Call sexism all you want. NT

[58Sunliner]

68. Kamala isn't stupid. She knew what she was doing. It's not sexist to call someone on it.

Remember-that's politics. If it had been a guy I would have called him a ham.

[emmaverybo]

28. Did he use his son's cancer to attack another candidate? Did he make that candidate responsible

for it and thousands of others’? He was not shaming, accusing, attacking, putting anyone on the hot seat using his son’s cancer.

He referenced his son’s cancer to show that he understood people, less fortunate than he, dealing with serious healthcare issues, and he wanted to help these people.

World of difference.

[highplainsdem]

33. Harris used a hyper-emotional tone of voice that I now feel was fake to make a "you hurt me"

speech and try to paint Biden as a racist.

As I said elsewhere, I'd give her an A for acting and a much lower grade for sincerity.

And I'm saying that as a woman who supported Hillary Clinton in both 2008 and 2016.

HRC, like Harris, is a strong woman. She rarely sounded very emotional.

But when she did, it always struck me as genuine.

I don't know if I'll ever again automatically believe any emotion Harris shows is genuine.

That was my reaction to discovering her little "you hurt me" speech was pre-planned, set up to roll out with a tweet of a childhood photo, and then peddling a t-shirt.

I don't think Biden's ever resorted to peddling t-shirts designed to exploit sympathy.

And I believe Biden's displays of emotion are genuine. If anything, he wears his heart on his sleeve too much.

But that's who he is.

At the moment I don't know who the hell Kamala Harris is -- especially after seeing some of what's been posted here recently about what she did as DA -- but I've lost much of the respect I had for her, and the overwhelming sympathy I felt for her during that moment of the debate, before I realized that this was planned and rehearsed, and that she was acting.

[EffieBlack]

42. Lol

Some people said she was angry and speaking loudly. Others, like you, claim she was using a “hyper-emotional voice.”

Ratfucking is real, people

[highplainsdem]

43. I never said she was angry and speaking loudly. I don't remember seeing anyone say that. And I

resent your silly accusation that this is "ratfucking."

I've been a Democrat all my life, first worked for the party before I was old enough to vote, and I intend to vote for the Democratic nominee in 2020, as always.

But that does not mean I have to be gullible about Harris.

[EffieBlack]

44. I didn't say you said that.

And I didn’t say you were engaging in ratfucking. You just don’t seem to realize you’re falling for it.

[highplainsdem]

45. I'm not "falling for" anything. My opinion of Harris's pre-planned attack was based

solely on my reaction to what she said in the debate, how she said it, and what her campaign followed up with to exploit that attack.

In general, I tend to have a very low opinion of people who make emotional "you hurt me" speeches that turn out to be planned and rehearsed.

[ucrdem]

46. She was, in fact, visibly angry.

And she raised her voice. And she jabbed her finger at him. This was right after Biden pointed out that she was not bused in a court-ordered desegregation program. Of course, he was also somewhat angry. But it's entirely accurate to point out that she appeared to lose her temper.

----------
ETA link to video: https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/06/27/kamala_harris_vs_joe_biden_for_opposing_federal_bussing_that_little_girl_was_me.html

[EffieBlack]

48. Yes, of course she was

She was a black woman speaking her mind, so, of course, she was obviously angry.

You might want to do some self-reflection about unconscious bias. The “Angry Black Woman” applied to strong black women is really a thing:

“Serena Williams and the trope of the 'angry black woman'” https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45476500

“Aggressive Encounters & White Fragility: Deconstructing the Trope of
the Angry Black Woman” https://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=6453&context=faculty_scholarship

[ucrdem]

49. Did you watch the debate?

[EffieBlack]

52. I did. Did you?

[ucrdem]

57. Yes, and you can review the exchange if you'd like to here:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/06/27/kamala_harris_vs_joe_biden_for_opposing_federal_bussing_that_little_girl_was_me.html

[EffieBlack]

62. And while you saw an angry black woman, I saw a woman speaking eloquently, firmly and calmly

about something important to her. No anger at all.

But as a black woman who has regularly been called “angry” when I speak my mind, I get it. You’re sure you saw what you think you saw. It’s all about prisms and paradigms ...

[ucrdem]

63. Fine, you saw what you saw. I saw the debate. nt

[tonedevil]

100. Are you suggesting...

that EffieBlack didn't see the debate?

[betsuni]

78. There was no anger.

People saying she was over prepared on the one hand, on the other emotional in a weepy or angry way. Did they forget what her job was before she ran for president?

It's like when you see a movie and read other people's comments and they get things so wrong you think, did we all see the same movie?

[brush]

75. Amazing isn't it? Some people...

Biden makes an unforced error, Harris calls him on it and she's vilified.

[ucrdem]

76. Actually Biden called Harris on her error, and it wasn't unforced.

It was planned for months.

[brush]

94. Well that's one way of looking at it, but the fact remains that had Biden...

not used long-forgotten segregationists and "boy" to show how he can work with those of opposing views, no one would even be talking about it. Of all the innumerable ways during a long career to demonstate working with some you disagree with he picks old racists and an insulting term to African Americans.

Sorry, that's the definition of an unforced error.

I hope there are no more of these as he can mop the floor with trump on a debate stage. I still fondly remember how he demolished Paul Ryan in 2012.

[ucrdem]

95. Boy was not the issue at all. It was busing and he won that point. Harris was wrong. nt

[brush]

96. It was in the original incident, which is the unforced error that led to it all.

[ucrdem]

97. The original incident was last millennium. This was an ambush and it failed. nt

[brush]

98. I'm talking about the incident 3 or so weeks ago when Biden evoked...

the segregationist story most recent recently and put it in the public consciousness. You have to be kidding to say "it failed" as Harris poll numbers and fund raising spiked upwards dramatically.

Don't blame her for being good at politics, and remember, politics ain't bean bags.

And I hope there are no more missteps from the Biden camp as he can wipe the floor with trump on a debate stage.

[ucrdem]

99. We'll see.

[Thekaspervote]

23. +1000

[customerserviceguy]

80. It will be interesting

to see when Sens. Warren and Harris get on the same debate stage together.

[Andy823]

81. I want to see Warren

and Biden on the same stage!

[customerserviceguy]

83. Eventually

it will be only the top tier. And there's a limited amount of time to get on board with that group.

[R B Garr]

86. Her voice breaking was also yet another sign that defending

oneself was forfeited.

[SunsetDreams2]

20. Hmm..I see nothing about homophobia and

I also don’t see her campaign being quoted other than

“I think they believe that their victory hinges upon the establishment believing he’s the only candidate that can beat Trump,” a Harris adviser said of Biden’s camp. “If that starts to unravel then the game is up.”

I do see Watson Coleman from Corey Bookers campaign being quoted a lot.

[emmaverybo]

64. Homophobia alleged in another thread re: a comment Biden made praising social progress using

idea that gay mocking once acceptable could now ostracize the mocker among presumably otherwise liberal people. Some interpreted Biden to be praising gay mocking until the re-read. Then the discussion turned to Seattle culture and whether or not Biden was hip to it.

[SunsetDreams2]

66. I saw that and it's silly IMO

I didn’t see it in this article for politico.

I think Biden was just making a comparison as to how attitudes have improved in the last few years and people are more apt to speak up in those situations.

[emmaverybo]

69. Well wow. You cut through a mountain of misunderstanding. Yeah, that was what he was saying. NT

[SunsetDreams2]

72. There will be more silly stuff for sure nt

[emmaverybo]

74. It is silly season after all. 😊

[mcar]

24. Another Politico hit piece. Pure ratfcking

This is sheer tabloid journalism. Anyone who attacks Harris for this crap didn't bother to read the article and is calling for the ratfcking.

[Lordquinton]

55. Harris has surged in polls since she called out Biden during last week's debate

Interesting article, shows Biden losing support all over, particularly with POC voters.

Biden’s support from non-white voters fell to 25 from 30 percent, while Harris’ backing with the group surged to 19 from just 4 percent.

According to this article, things are not looking good for Camp Biden.

While Biden’s supporters tried to turn the tables on Harris, Marguerite Willis, a recent Democratic candidate for governor in South Carolina, said she was stung by the way his camp has handled the fallout. Willis sees it as a cry for help from a campaign that’s slowly coming apart in an era it simply wasn’t built for.

“As a woman,” she said, “I hear that as ‘who do you think you are? You need to wait your turn.’ As a politician, I hear that as ‘Houston, we have a problem.’”

[EffieBlack]

58. I wouldn't be surprised if this falloff has lless to do with the exchange during the debate and

is more the result of the over-the-top and often ugly reaction from the some of Biden folks

[emmaverybo]

67. Where's the fall off? On DU? We are not "Biden folks" if you mean campaigners. In the polls?

Harris has surged.

Carol Mosley-Braun? I don’t think she is spear-heading an ugly, anti-Harris movement.

The fall off is thus far immeasurable. Some folks didn’t like the manner in which she challenged Biden, and many others applaud her. News cycles were extremely complimentary to her and every
guest I saw took Biden to task.

On the record, very very little pushback and much more acclaim.

If “Biden folks” are orchestrating an anti-Harris campaign and mobilizing support, they are doing
a piss-poor job.

Yes, with a rise in the polls, she will draw attention. Biden was quick to renounce, as many others did, the garbage.

[stonecutter357]

104. what ugly reaction from the some of Biden folks ?

[Tiggeroshii]

70. Why does that sound so familiar?

Supporters of the female candidate calling the male candidate sexist?

Hmmm...

[SunsetDreams2]

71. It was Watson Coleman from Corey Bookers

Campaign, she is the only one quoted in this article regarding sexism and race. It did not come from a Harris ally as alleged in this article.

[IluvPitties]

79. It's politics. People talk shit about each other all the time.

It will get worse before it gets any better. Harris is going for the KO early against Biden. He's a veteran, so I am hoping he is able to hold his own. If he doesn't, then he was not as ready for the battle as we, his supporters, hoped for.

It is what it is. Also, Harris is going to get some serious scrutiny soon, so get ready.

[BootinUp]

82. I'm gonna take back the nice things

I’ve said about her.

[betsuni]

87. I saw the strangest thing today.

I'm used to arguments where one person repeats anti-Democratic propaganda and the other one counters it with facts. In this one both use propaganda, supposedly to defend their choice of Democrat. Blows my mind, man.

A: Profiting from calling Biden a racist, this is pathetic. She's the real racist. (Proceeds to repeat fake news about Harris): Keeping innocent people in prison to exploit as prison labor, throwing parents in jail for truancy, helping Steve Mnuchin who paid her off, keeping an innocent man in prison for two years...

B: (Proceeds to accuse Biden of corruption): Whatabout the 1994 crime bill and the bankruptcy bill! The Mnuchin stuff was nothing compared to what Biden did to be best friends with the big banks.

A: 1994 was a long time ago, Harris did all these terrible things recently.

B: 2005 was when Biden coddled the big banks and passed the bankruptcy bill. Which impacted the most people?

A: Harris is fundraising with the Well Fargo CEO!!! Talk about corruption.

B: No, it was a former executive, unlike the executives Biden coddled when he did their work for them shepherding bill after bill to the industry, not just the bankruptcy bill. And whatabout his son Hunter? MBNA hired him, corruption runs in the family.

Battling ratfuckers!

[mcar]

92. Politico living up to their reputation as

Tiger Beat on the Potomac. Charlie Pierce

[Midnightwalk]

103. Squirrel!!!

Why fall for this crap? It isn’t even a squirrel just a rat fucker.

I only care about who makes the case for the broadest part of general election voters. I want someone with bill clinton’s gift of gab and Obama’s brain.

I don’t really care about fine grained policy differences. No policy is going to be enacted unmodified and then only if we win. I’m happy to argue outside the primary group.

But falling for this bullshit media driven crap is just insane. Some rag like politico says that someone who likes harris says that biden is a doody head and people go nuts. Fuck politico.

And to anyone who wants to tell me how I’m minimizing some hugely important cat fight you should be able to figure out what my reponse would be if I didn’t hold my tongue.

[stonecutter357]

105. wow

[Kahuna7]

106. Oh, because some called her,"ambitious...."