I don't agree that Biden is the most electable Democrat

[Goodheart]

I like him, as do most people. He's affable, he's experienced, he's steady, BUT....

He's just not exciting.

We need excitement for a very obvious reason. Republicans have ALWAYS, ALWAYS turned out in greater numbers at the polls than their true share of the population because they're driven by hatred and fear. It makes perfect sense that we other folks... who live and let live, adhere to tolerance, are driven by inclusion, etc.... are never as motivated to impose our wills upon others at the ballot box... unless we're EXCITED to do it.

Sorry, Joe, I love you, I appreciate your Obama years, but I just can't pull the lever for you in a primary. We need a Warren, a Harris, or a Buttegieg.

[rusty quoin]

1. I know what you mean

[DENVERPOPS]

40. People, People, People

Realistically, it will be interesting to see if ANY democrat can win an election that has been rigged, esp with the Russians with their expertise in hacking. We saw them do it in 2000, and even more so in 2004. And the voting machines and Software are still being used in addition to all the gerrymandering etc etc etc. They are going to do absolutely EVERYTHING to throw the election to Trump.

IF, and that is a mighty big IF, a democrat wins, I don't want to watch what happens the next day, and for the next period of time.
Trump, His DOJ, The Supreme Court will all declare a fraudulent election and cancel the election results "until they can figure out what happened" Judging from the Mueller fiasco, it may go on endlessly with no new president allowed to take the office, and Trump will remain in Power.......And the nation will become a total nightmare with an all out rebellion across the entire U.S.
I fear all the Trumpites will flock to the streets in every community, armed to their teeth to quiet any one who doesn't agree with them.

I still believe every democrat should go out, Buy Orwell's book ANIMAL FARM for what has been going on the past 2+ years and might forecast how it will all end. If you think for one nano-second that the United Corporations of America are going to give back any of their new found wealth and profits, or any ground they have won against any and all regulations, you are in for a very rude surprise........

[rusty quoin]

44. It's just like always for decades. We have to come out in overwhelming numbers.

We gotta do what we did in 2018. That’s the fight we are up against, and that is what we gotta do.

[Politicub]

76. Well aren't you a ray of sunshine?

Welcome to DU.

[MarvinGardens]

103. Nonsense.

Did they rig 2008, 2012, and 2018?

What does your post have to do with the Democratic Primary?

In my opinion, posts like this will serve only to suppress Democratic turnout, in the primaries and the general.

[IcyPeas]

2. I feel the same

Warren or Harris

[Hoyt]

3. Quite critical of Biden right now; but if he still is best bet to beat trump in March,

I’ll likely vote for him. But, not sure he will be.

[Goodheart]

7. Of course, if after a few primaries Biden builds a delegate lead

I will be crowing to all my trumpian acquaintances about how very exciting he is! LOL.

[Chitown Kev]

4. I've never thought that Biden was electable for POTUS

At all...

[bearsfootball516]

54. Polls show him completely slaughtering Trump

I know, polls this, polls that, etc. But that’s all we have to go off right now and if they show him walloping Trump in every single swing state, that’s the definition of electable.

[qazplm135]

92. oh he's electable

but he's not necessarily the best person we can put up either.

But he guaranteed wins PA, and if he does that, holds Hillary states and wins MI and WI, then we win. I certainly think he can do all of those things, thus, he is electable.

But he's not the only person that can do that...Warren and Harris can too.


Buttigieg maybe. Bernie maybe. I have more doubts about Bernie than Buttigieg though.

[LanternWaste]

96. And you'll provide objective evidence supporting that "thought", yes?

People have also never thought that 2+2=4. "At all..." And of course, they have both the right to that thoroughly unsupported opinion, and to allege it to anyone who stands nearby.

Yet unless they provide evidence to support it, it's nothing more than a meaningless bumper-sticker.

[Demsrule86]

109. But you think Harris can win MI, Wi and PA...maybe FL...really.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

5. Different people are excited by different attributes.

A candidate who might excite you might not excite others, and vice-versa, and what "excitement" even means isn't going to be the same for everyone. Judging by the current polls, a lot of people do seem to think Biden is exciting in some way. I haven't decided whom I'm supporting, but I don't find Biden unexciting at all. All of the candidates have different styles and presentations. Most of them are exciting in their own ways, whatever that means.

[PatSeg]

10. Personally I never found Joe Biden

to be unexciting either.

I agree with you that most of our candidates are exciting in their own ways. Maybe Gillibrand not so much.

[JI7]

50. the thought of any of the democratic candidates winning in November 2020 and getting rid of Trump

excites me.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

74. Me too. I'm not looking for a rock star, I want someone who can beat Trump.

It does worry me a bit that some people think a candidate has to be a rock star in order to do that. But I believe the excitement in this election will be the prospect of de-Trumpification. Maybe people will be motivated enough by fear of another four years of that to put down their cell phones, get off their dead asses and vote.

[Demsrule86]

59. This is not a base election...oh sure we need to turn out but this election will be won in

the blue wall states...if you look at the electoral map and I plan to post it today at some point...you will see that our most likely victory and Trump's most likely victory lie in three states...blue wall states...MI,WI and PA...he wins those states and he gets four more years. If we win there, we send him packing. I would add that this is a problem going forward...we won't just lose 20 if we don't win back the blue wall states, we will lose 24 and beyond as we have no current path to the presidency without these states.

Biden is way ahead in those states and the most likely candidate to win' it is possible he could win Florida and maybe other states as well but we can't count on this....the blue wall states are where our victory andTrump's defeat lie. All this angst about the perfect candidate and wanting this time to finally have a progressive candidate who excites you etc, will cause us to lose the general...and that would be horrible and deal a death blow to the progressive movement and and the progressive agenda. We won't even recognized this country if and when he finally leaves. It is that serious. No one has ever been able to tell me how candidates other than Biden win blue wall states. He has better numbers and it doesn't make sense to pick weaker (in those states) candidates.

I would add the the adoption of reparations, busing and MFA etc. have made some candidates unlikely to win a general...We have always won with a big tent and the more pure we become...the less likely we are to win.

[emmaverybo]

105. MFA, busing, reparations, Green Energy program, cancel student debt, healthcare all undocumented,

Last edited Wed Jul 3, 2019, 02:28 PM - Edit history (1)

universal childcare, affordable housing. free tuition community college and four year, 200 billion
opiate crisis, 50 billion Black colleges, military family housing...

All worthy. All I could personally support. All all together a recipe for disaster for getting us in.

Need to prioritize a few big ticket programs, suggest reform/ make a difference in many other areas, but not tie ourselves to several investment-intense plans for which there is not not consensus even among all Dems, and which will kill us in rust belt.

Taxing ultra rich to afford all these does not actually add up to affording them. Further, in many voters minds, they translate to substantial higher taxes on middle class.

Midterm campaigning showed us that voters are not as concerned about Trump’s threat to democracy and his crimes against humanity as they are to tax hikes, their own communities’ needs, healthcare affordability, daily bread and butter on THEIR table.

Get in first.
Get in. Who can get the message out about Trump and company’s clear and present danger without
getting plowed under in Republican fear-mongering and division as they exploit these plans. Jeeze, I have outstanding student debt and I am not for canceling 95% to 100% across the boards. Lower my interest half to one percent and I’d be dancing.

I want universal health coverage, but don’t want to give up my own cost-free retirement health plan to get there, or ask millions of others to give up theirs—Americans like choice in all matters. I am worried about the impact on hospitals and care quality. I see so many other ways to cover everyone and then include healthcare for undocumented immigrants as a part of a comprehensive immigration reform package.

I can also think of many existing social safety net programs desperately in need of more funding and expansion. And what about the millions of foreclosures and gentrification pushing out whole communities? What about true supportive, rather than punitive welfare reform? What about cuts in Federal summer youth jobs programs, unemployment job training. States need help to continue helping many different populations, those in temporary crisis, struggling, the underserved, disenfranchised, those disadvantaged socio-economically by race, age, illness, disability —on all fronts.

Child protective services in so many cities do not have the funding to hire enough folks to monitor foster homes, investigate and follow through on child abuse complaints. In some areas EMS and Fire departments are running short or running on all volunteer crews.

And the list of needs goes on. Some of the listed programs will help, not all. Nonetheless, all and so many together could lose us this election. Then we won’t be helping anyone.

Get the presidency first and then look at policies that will take years of high investment, political capital, legislation, systemic overhaul of existing infrastructure, sensible decision making about how to implement, and real consensus, not just the backing of progressives. Love our growing progressive
voice, its impact on the whole party and on America, but where we need to win, progressive ideas and the progressive agenda for change, has not not yet taken root. In fact, left to center and centrist
thinking prevails at such a deeply entrenched level that it simply can not be uprooted in the course of one election cycle.

Get in first.

[Demsrule86]

108. Exactly right...get the presidency and then work on issues...run on the popular ones and try to

bring people along once you are in.

[eilen]

132. 1,000,000,000,000 X's Agree.

I know, I think running on normalcy can't be underestimated.
But I do know that some of the proposed plans/policies are raising some alarm among the average moderate democrat and independent and making me wonder if some of our candidates are losing perspective.

[emmaverybo]

136. Must be a sincere effort towards greater income equality, social justice, help for young people

who went to college and help for black people attending black colleges and...I mean I don’t know
how one chooses exactly where the dollars go. Alcoholism is still our leading drug problem. Medicare and Medicaid cover opiate addiction. More needs to be done, but we have a framework.

I am shaking my head. As you say this long wish list of extensive political and fiscal commitments
is not enticing to many moderate democrats and center or center left independents. Could
prove downright scary.

We need to shore up and expand existing social safety nets while investing more in health, education, and welfare. Then start getting expansive.

Any new president will have her hands full undoing what Trump has done. Also, I want some input, not just from a candidate and a few consultants.

Sorry. I really think this give away through takeaway, cause there will be the inevitable taking away, is a recipe for for more years.

[The Mouth]

91. it would be exciting to have a sane president at all!!

[BlueStater]

6. Why do people constantly feel the need to mention they like Biden before they criticize him?

This seems to be a phenomenon that's exclusive to him.

[Goodheart]

8. So we don't get attacked here? LOL.

[gldstwmn]

32. Biden is being shoved down our throats big time.

Can we please have a discussion of some of the other candidates without being beaten over the head with the meme that Biden is the only one who can win? Beto did a pretty good job on Colbert tonight btw. Can we talk about him for a minute without being clubbed over the head by Biden supporters telling us that no, he can't win? I mean Jesus, we can't even talk about it without five people showing up to tell us forget it, he cant win. BTFO for a minute please and let us talk amongst ourselves. You do realize that is alienating people? Or is that the objective? Does DU have a plan not to be shut down on Election Day 2020? Becuase honestly I think we've already been infiltrated.

[potone]

49. I agree that Biden is being pushed.

I’m tired of it. It is too early to be settling on a choice, and I am getting the strong impression that the press, and perhaps the DNC, want Biden to be chosen as the Democratic nominee.

[LovingA2andMI]

79. Been Tired of the Pushing....

Thank you for saying such and totally AGREE.

[Demsrule86]

61. I would say Harris is being shoved down our throats by the media and supporters. I do not believe

she can win a general-sure I would vote for her but we need other voters; we won't win without independents. She has taken positions that won't play welll in the general like busing and taking away private health care...also, I have researched it and there are issues that will pop up that go back to her time as DA and AG in California. The idea that if 'we' show up in sufficient numbers in the general,we will win. We don't have the numbers...again we will need independents.

[katmondoo]

73. I agree, the same thought crossed my mind. Harris is being shoved down our throats

I liked her before the debates, but not after.

[Demsrule86]

75. I agree and for the record. I have always like Warren and still do.

[treestar]

85. +1

[treestar]

83. She certainly was for her debate actions!

[backscatter712]

66. Agreed. There's a gang here that alerts on anyone critical of Saint Joe.

How dare we suggest he's vulnerable. How dare we suggest he's not connecting with the voters. How dare we suggest he's said and done things that are clueless?

[LovingA2andMI]

81. Sounds a bit like....

Deja Vu. Like we been here before....

[Celerity]

98. +1

[treestar]

82. That's campaigning, that's life

"Shoved down your throat?" People are allowed to support and criticize whoever they want.

[redstateblues]

131. You obviously don't watch MSNBC. They are shoving Harris down our throats 24-7

[obamanut2012]

68. +1

[LanternWaste]

97. I too pretend oppression when I hold a minority opinion.

Otherwise, I'd have to refer to it as "a minority opinion" and that doesn't validate the narrative quite as effectively as our fictitious oppression.

[gldstwmn]

107. Yup. That's the Soviet way.

[Skya Rhen]

9. Because most people are quite aware that Joe is greatly loved and respected by others.

[pnwmom]

11. Probably because they know they'll get jumped on when they criticize Biden. n/t

[CentralMass]

12. I know most people here just come right out and hate Sanders from the get go.

[jberryhill]

15. Naw. I used to like him

Nowadays not so much.

[CentralMass]

20. Apparently it's contagious. .

[MrsCoffee]

71. Or consequential.

[aidbo]

19. You must not remember the 'I like Bernie, but...' phenomena of the past couple years.

[BeyondGeography]

51. That's funny

[MBS]

56. Because he is a good and likeable man

Who has served the country honorably, particularly as VP. And that’s appropriate to mention. I really am fond of him. I hope that he will continue his life of public service.
I just don’t think he’s electable as president.
Or, more fundamentally, he doesn’t seem to me the best candidate with the energy and vision and fresh perspective necessary to move the country forward (NB: not back).
And, yes, age has something to do with it,too. That’s why 3-4 other candidates are off my list as well. Among other reasons,we will have a big mess to clean up, and we need someone who can serve two full terms at full tilt.

[RandiFan1290]

60. afraid of being hidden by the jury. nt

[MarcA]

123. This. And Skinner and the Mods let it happen. n/t

[treestar]

84. That is itself might prove he is electable

We keep being told the candidate has to be liked, excite people, etc.

If he's liked that much, that would satisfy that model on who could win.

[Kind of Blue]

13. He never was and is questionable now.

[IluvPitties]

14. Joe is an excellent candidate and human being.

Our party is luck to have him.

[Chitown Kev]

21. Biden has already run for the nomination twice

he never made it past Iowa...now perhaps he's an excellent candidate for 2020...time will tell.

[IluvPitties]

64. His record as a public servant speaks for itself.

[Chitown Kev]

112. Let me be clear...I don't dislike Joe Biden

and on paper...certainly he is the most qualified to be President of the United States...probabmy more qualified than anyone who ever ran.

But part of qualifying for that position is that you have to win the party primaries...and Joe hasn't done so well historically in that sense...

In the same sense, for years, I would never bet on Peyton Manning (0-4 against Florida in college, e.g.) winning a big game...because he didn't...he had to show me.

The same thing applies to Biden now, as far as I am concerned

[watoos]

16. I preface my comment by saying

I voted for Joe in the 2008 primary. I also voted for Bernie in the primary. Today I feel that both of them had their chance.

If it's true that Joe is the most electable it's also true that he has the most baggage. He has been in politics a long time and naturally he has a lot that Republicans can pick apart.

Joe can still do it, but he needs to pick it up, his debate performance was.......fill in the blank.

[AlexSFCA]

17. I feel exact same way. He is much less exciting than Hillary was

and I see no difference in his policies vs Clinton. Never mind he voted for the war in iraq which indicates lack of independent thinking. Like most dems, I adore Biden. But I do not believe he can beat trump. Maybe only with a clever choice of VP. Primarily because he has no appeal to independent voters. He’ll get some moderate never trumpers instead. Media is not interested in him. Trump will get 24/7 coverage. He is not appealing to young voters. IMO, Warren has better shot at exciting the base and strong appeal to independents. I think Warren would get the most out of dem base in the general and a huge chunk of registered voters with no party affiliation. She’ll get zero never trumpers votes. Harris and Buttigieg are in question but can be useful tools for VP if they don’t win the primary.
If Biden wins the nomination, he should choose Stacey Abrams as VP. Harris is reserved for AG - we need to to prosecute everyone one of GOP crimes.

[ucrdem]

18. In the GE he is, absolutely, no question.

In the primaries, or at least the primary debates, maybe not, but as it stands, the three other front-runners are going to excite one lane of the primary electorate, and Joe will take the other. That leaves Joe with the most delegates at the end of the day.

[Mme. Defarge]

22. You and a minority of others.

[highplainsdem]

27. Exactly. A minority view, according to the polls.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

23. It has nothing to do with liking or disliking him or finding him exciting or dull.

His debate performance demonstrated he is clearly the not the Joe we remember. For sports fan he's Muhammad Ali circa 1980, Michael Jordan circa 2001, Shaquille O'Neal circa 2011, Willie Mays circa 1973, and Johnny Unitas circa 1973.

Father Time is undefeated. The Joe Biden who pantsed Paul Ryan and Sarah Palin belongs to history.

[ucrdem]

24. That crossed my mind too until he got mad. Then he delivered a right hook she didn't see coming

to extend the boxing metaphor. Then he stepped back into his humble crouch so as not to be called a bully. But if you watch the tape, he delivers a blow, and it registers.

[highplainsdem]

26. Not necessarily. Obama had a dismal first debate against Romney. I don't think

Biden was expecting an attack as nasty as the one Harris hit him with, with the "you hurt me" emotional plea. That attack cost her some fans as well as winning her some (as Dan Rather had expected), and it also let Biden know what to expect from her.

If he has as many problems in his next debate, then he's in more trouble.

But that's a ways off, and he won't be the only target in the meantime, now that other candidates think they have to worry about Harris, too.

[Chitown Kev]

48. A better sports analogy...or one that I have been using, in any event

Biden kinda reminds me of Norm Chow, the offensive coordinator of USC during their glory years with Pete Carroll.

Chow was a great offensive coordinator not only under Carroll but also in his previous job as OC at BYU.

He left USC to become an OC in the pros and then as a college head coach and he absolutely flopped.

I would still say that Chow is one of the greatest offensive coordinators in the history of college football and it was the role best suited for him...he wasn't cut out to be a head coach

There are probably other examples like Chow but he's the one that comes to mind.

Biden was a great Senator from Delaware and as VP for President Obama...but some empirical evidence (in the form of 2 previous runs for the presidency) indicates that being the head person...just might not be for him...for a host of reasons.

At least the primary allows us to actually test that hypothesis...yet again... so that we don't have to go down the road that the University of Hawaii did with Chow.

[True Dough]

63. I loved all those guys too

And I agree with your analogy. At that point in their careers you're watching them perform and, while you still admire them for all that they've accomplished, you know their best days are behind them. They just can't pull the trigger like they used to anymore. Same with Joe.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

90. The athletes I cited were ghosts of their former selves.

[treestar]

87. that was just one debate

even Obama had a weak debate perforrmance. He was going to lose to Rmoney per this very board for a week, until another debate or news item came up.

[Celerity]

101. far from just the debate buttressing that poster's positings

this being but one example

[Celerity]

99. until he proves otherwise, those would be valid comparisons IMHO nt

[DemocratSinceBirth]

100. He like they became ghosts of themselves.

They ignored the adage that there is no shame in quitting on top. My third rail is electability. I was pretty bullish on Joe until I watched him on the stump and in the debates.


Can his partisans really say with a straight face that the Joe we are seeing now is the Joe that pantsed Paul Ryan and Sarah Palin?

[gulliver]

139. His performance with Cuomo on CNN was essentially brilliant.

It was better than I have seen from any of the other candidates to date. He was witty and engaging stylistically. His knowledge of foreign policy and America's political history for the past several decades was brought to bear full force and was impressive. He handled the criticisms he has been receiving with grace and unity preserving style.

Sure, Biden's last debate wasn't all that great, but I remember Obama had what the media conclusion jumpers called a "lackluster" debate one time too. A whole lot of people around here panicked. It ended up being nothing. Biden's debate performance was actually pretty good. He just got ambushed by Kamala Harris's highly personalized ("that little girl was me" ) race-oriented attack. That gave the TV audience a "moment" but the substance of the attack later proved to be less than substantial.

If Biden does in the next debate what he did in the Cuomo interview, he's not only easily the most electable and the most Obama "sympatico" certified. He's the best candidate period. I like Warren's plans quite a bit, for example, but my feeling is that if we want Warren's plans to pan out as much as possible, we should nominate Biden.

I'm looking for someone who will be a great president and who will win. Biden's both.

[LovingA2andMI]

25. Fact:Biden in his last two POTUS runs....

Never got beyond the 3% mark before being the VPOTUS of Barack Obama.

There is a huge reason for that if one thinks about it.

This post is totally on point.

[Thekaspervote]

28. these are different times, and at least right now the polls do not reflect the op comments

[LovingA2andMI]

41. Both....

Kamala Harris and Elizabeth Warren are in a Dead Heat to 8 Points striking distance of placing Joe in Second, Third or Fourth Place. And on DU, Joe is in 2nd place with Elizabeth First and Kamala a close 3rd.

[highplainsdem]

30. Did it occur to you that the fact he's been the frontrunner for months during THIS run shows how

completely irrelevant those earlier runs are?

You're like someone saying that if an athlete scores a high number of points in a game currently going on, that should be ignored because he didn't do as well in earlier games.

[PunkinPi]

58. One reason he's been the frontrunner for months is he has the highest name ID, followed by Sanders.

[gldstwmn]

29. The only way the other side can steal is if it's close.

We must get our 12 million Democrat advantage off the couch. If we excite them, they will come.

[highplainsdem]

31. If we convince them the candidate is electable, they'll come. Every single poll I've seen that

asked voters what they considered more important -- electability or having a nominee that agrees with them on policies -- found Democratic voters putting more emphasis on electabllity.

And our Democratic advantage has to become an advantage in the electoral college as well, not just more votes piling up in states that are reliably Democratic while we lose the electoral vote again. For that we need candidates that can win in those swing states.

[gldstwmn]

34. Mmmmhmmm...

[highplainsdem]

38. If you don't believe me, I suggest you go back through the polls that have been posted here. The

pollsters consistently found that voters consider ability to beat Trump more important than whether a candidate agreed with them on the issues. Ans rhe pollsters also consistently found that more voters thought the candidate most likely to beat Trump was Biden than believed the same of any other candidate.

[gldstwmn]

39. Do you really want me to go back through the polls?

The polls show an impending implosion by your candidate and a breakout by one of our wonderful, new, progressive candidates. Sorry, I don't want a president who is 80 years old around the time of inauguration and unable to fulfill a second term.

[highplainsdem]

42. No, the polls show what I said they did, over a period of months. We're a long way from any

real evidence that Harris can become the front-runner, let alone maintain that lead for months.

One of the newest polls showing her almost tied with Biden also showed her far behind him when people were asked who was the best leader, and who was most electable.

When she starts showing up as the most electable, she'll be getting closer to the dominance in the polls Biden has had so far.

Over the last couple of months, we've seen people announcing that Warren was surging, or Buttigieg was surging. Harris didn't really get a bounce until the debate, and I'll be surprised if that bounce lasts, especially if Biden does better in his next debate.

[Skya Rhen]

43. Only Joe can win the swing states and he will be our next President - facts support this.

[emmaverybo]

113. You don't rebut then what what the polls show mentioned in the post you are responding to? NT

[Kind of Blue]

37. +1000.

[comradebillyboy]

33. If Joe is to be our nominee he needs to up his game a bit.

His own staff warned him about even bringing up Eastland and the other old segregationist Senators he had to work with back in the day. Kamala did herself a lot of good by poking Joe in the eye over this. If the others sense weakness they will start attacking the front runner as well, like Corey Booker is doing.

[Gothmog]

35. Joe Biden is the most electable candidate that the Democratic Party has available

[watoos]

53. That's Joe's best talking point,

and I don't really know what that means?

Policy wise Joe is Hillary 2.0. Granted, we should have learned from what Russia did to Hillary, but to me Joe hasn't shown me that he is the most electable. The best quality in our candidate is that he/she needs to be tough as nails. Joe used to be that guy, he needs to show it. He isn't going to win riding on Obama's coattails.

Joe did a lot in his time in Congress and that's a positive. Joe did a lot in his time in Congress and that's a negative.

[Gothmog]

125. Joe Biden is the only Democratic candidate with a wide lead over President Trump

Link to tweet

[58Sunliner]

36. Sorry, heart-felt personal opinions add little to the dialogue-especially when they are

the equivalent of "I'm just not into you". You know who they are going to rip to shreds if she makes the nomination? Harris. And the reasons will be valid, even if we think it's unfair. And it is not something I am happy about either, as she was my number 2. I heard an interesting program today on my local alternative/community station. It was several AAs of different ages talking about Harris/Biden/Buttigeig etc., and that they will not support someone who they do not see as electable, and they see Harris having insurmountable drawbacks. Their goal is to beat DT.
I find it interesting/disgusting that there is this common drum beat on this site by a number of people to misrepresent Biden, negate him through whatever slights such as this post. I'm not even a Biden supporter and I find it unpalatable. The funny thing is, you could find valid criticisms with his record and some of his gaffes. Instead people just make shit up.

[Skya Rhen]

45. +1000

[rusty quoin]

46. It's very early, but I'm still making a prediction of an election.

John McCain had no chance back then and he was the one I worried about the most, and I was right until he picked Palin.

Now, Biden will lose more and more, Sanders is already gone, and then there will be Harris and Warren.

I don’t see either of them making mistakes, nor there be anything bad about them coming out other than what Republicans pull out of their collective ass.

The two of them, Harris and Warren will keep going up as Sanders and Biden go down.

I think I’m right.

[Demsrule86]

62. I don't see either of them winning a general in the states we need...sure I vote for whoever emerges

but we will lose a general election we could have won and give Trump four more years. The country is center left. Both have taken positions that will cost us a general. Trump is throwing himself a dictator's parade that should scare the hell out of all of us.

[eilen]

133. I would like to know what evidence you base that judgement on

- that the country is center left. I don't even think the Democratic Party as a whole is center left. It is my understanding that moderates are under-represented by at least 75% on social media. And that does not take into account independents, unaffiliateds, and of course, small r republican/conservatives.

[Demsrule86]

134. How about the Senate map? How about the midterms...we can't even get 51 votes in the Senate in 20...

It will be a damn miracle if we do...also people self identify as moderate and/ sadly conservative.

[LovingA2andMI]

86. Great Prediction...

And think you're right, also about Warren and Harris.

[Demsrule86]

135. New polls show Biden beating Trump...and not Warren or Harris. As I want Trump gone as do most

Democrats...my prediction is Biden wll be the nominee and beat Trump.

[Skya Rhen]

137. Every single poll out there shows Biden leading all the other candidates in head-to-head

matchups against Trump.

Only one logical conclusion can be drawn from this - Biden needs to drop out, now! He can't win in the General. Why can't anybody else see this?

[stonecutter357]

47. let's go Joe !

[wyldwolf]

52. wait. what?

"I don't agree that Biden is the most electable Democrats because... he's just not exciting."

We're not electing a pop star.

"Republicans have ALWAYS, ALWAYS turned out in greater numbers at the polls than their true share of the population."

Explain that with Math.

[oasis]

55. CNN interview w/Joe on Friday, June 5th. nt

[LovingA2andMI]

88. Not a Good sign....

As he's bringing Jill. This is the "I know I'm beginning to lose this so, I'll do an soft interview with the Wife to try and gain anything back" interview.

[oasis]

102. I've got a hunch Joe will do himself a lot of good.

Shall we tune in and see?

[Demsrule86]

57. No we need to win three states...MI, WI and PA...excitement might be feel good...

but the policies most of our candidates have taken on reparations, busing, MFA etc...will make it very difficult to compete in those states and win a general...and some have pretty serious baggage that will be exploited.

[Act_of_Reparation]

77. I'm having some difficulty with this train of thought.

You're saying we need to run a centrist to win Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania, but we ran a centrist in 2016 and lost Wisconsin, Michigan, and Pennsylvania.

[Demsrule86]

89. She was despised because of NAFTA first of all...and we barely lost

I would also add that moderate / liberal had nothing to do with the loss...but a rebellion by the left left against Clinton who was not the candidate they supported... they voted for Stein or stayed home. This cost us 16. Rustbelt states tend to be more conservative than say New York or California...and they respond to issues like manufacturing, jobs and health care(ACwith public option)...not busing, reparations and MFA etc. Some of our leading candidates have run on issues in the primary that will cause us to lose these states in a general...I have included the electoral college map showing the importance of building the blue wall once more.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287187315

[jcgoldie]

110. despised because of NAFTA?!?

LOL I'm from the midwest in a very red area and I think its more accurate to say she was despised because she doesn't have a penis.

Edit to add: Joe Biden voted for NAFTA.

[Demsrule86]

111. Her husband was president so she was blamed more than Biden...and Biden redeemed himself after

for NAFTA...

[emmaverybo]

114. Contrary to what she said, and borne out by fact, she was a major cheerleader for NAFTA. Nt

[jcgoldie]

120. Oh a cheerleader!

How appropriate!

[Demsrule86]

122. Biden also supported NAFTA but regretted it and his votes are almost perfect years later.

[jcgoldie]

119. bullshit

NAFTA had nothing to do with anti-Clinton bias and do tell how Biden "redeemed" himself... by supporting Obamas TPP?

[Demsrule86]

121. Yes it did...but we can agree to disagree that and the attacks from the right and th left.

[delisen]

93. As long as Dems do not acknowledge Russia's role in 2016, and want to

just believe we are going to have a fair election in 2020 and therefore just need to get 100,000 more votes in 3 states, we stand to lose.

[Act_of_Reparation]

95. Yeah, I think it's slightly more complicated than that.

Even if we could somehow magically eliminate Russian meddling in our elections, 2020 would nevertheless remain incredibly unfair to us.

[Skya Rhen]

65. New Washington Post/ABC Poll ** Biden 29%, Sanders 23%, Harris 11%, Warren 11%

This was conducted many more days, post-debate, than the other newly-released polls (June 28 to July 1).

The bubble has burst!

And the most electable is...…….


https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/harris-scores-debate-performance-electability-biden-front/story?id=64092090

[emmaverybo]

115. Thanks for posting this. NT

[obamanut2012]

67. Me either -- I actually think it's Warren, and I didn't think that until recently

I had Harris as my DU Choice until very recently, and I still really like her. I personally don't think Buttegieg should get the nomination, but he is actually more appealing to folks than I thought he would be. He is my Boomer parents' #2 choice after Warren.

My mom is very liberal, my Dad is pretty conservadem on many issues, but liberal on LGBT+ issues.

On edit: Both would vote for Biden in the GE, but neither want him as the nominee.

[Autumn]

69. IMO he's the most unelectable Democrat we have running.

I also think he will drop out by August. It will be Warren and possibly Harris.

[SouthernProgressive]

70. You are spot on that hate and fear are great motivators.

But I think you go a bit off track when applying it. Trump has generated a considerable amount of hate and fear on our side. Fear of what else he will do if given four more years and hate because of the person he is at his core.

I see us benefiting from that motivator. Trump is generating it for us.

I still don't dispute how they have historically used hate and fear and how it moves them to action(voting).

[Peacetrain]

72. Seriously Goodheart.. I will pass on excitement and entertaining

and embrace competent and boring.. and by the way.. I do not think the Veep is a bit boring

[LovingA2andMI]

78. He's Not.....

n/t....

[treestar]

80. No one else is, either

There's so many of them and none stand out.

[peggysue2]

94. Exciting, really?

How about fear of another 4 years under a wanna-be dictator? How about losing the country and the rights we frequently take for granted or giving murders and mobsters a pass?

If you want excitement go to a frigging amusement park!

If you want to win in 2020, you vote for the candidate who can best kick Trump and his fascist friends to the curb.

Never again do I want to see people caged, kids kidnapped or our 4th of July celebration turned into a sickening display of ego and crass ignorance.

Donald Trump's unfitness is way beyond excitement. We're staring into the abyss. That should be enough even for dedicated thrill seekers.

[emmaverybo]

116. 👏 👏 👏 👏 👏

[sweetroxie]

104. He looks totally old to me. Very beige and frail.

That doesn't get MY juices going. I'm older that he is so I'm not judging, just observing

[emmaverybo]

118. Beige? Do you think his beige-privilege will be an issue or that he should get a fake tan? Agree

he looked less than the energized self he showed in speech when he rolled out.

[IronLionZion]

106. Plenty of Dems thought Gore was electable in 2000

after being VP to a popular president. Probably the same with GOP and George HW Bush.

[emmaverybo]

117. And he was. Rigged balloting. Voter suppression. Stolen election. NT

[JI7]

124. he was, it was stolen from him.too bad the so called green party didn't think the environment

was an imporant issue and did all they could to defeat him.

[Gothmog]

127. Joe Biden Is The Only Democrat With A Clear Advantage Over Trump In New Poll

Link to tweet

[ucrdem]

138. No question. Harris, good grief.

That didn't take long.

[emmaverybo]

128. American electorate disagrees with you. NT

[doc03]

129. Back in 2008 I said over and over America wouldn't elect a black president

but to my surprise we did. I never thought a women could win but Hillary got more votes. (I think she did win) Here we are again
I still can't see a women and especially a black women winning and sure not a gay guy. But Biden does not
excite me at all. So far I like Harris best but she is a black women who knows maybe she could win. I like Joe Biden but I just think he may be our Bob Dole in the end. I think Harris would eviscerate Trump in a debate but who knows maybe a women couldn't get away with that.

[redstateblues]

130. I like Mayor Pete but honestly, Mayor Pete has 0% of African Americans in SC

Can you show me a pathway to victory for him? I didn’t think so. Of the three you mentioned Harris has a possible chance but right now she is even with Trump. That’s not a risk I’m willing to take when Joe is up on Trump by 10%. Eye on the ball people

[Gothmog]

140. Biden is out polling the other democrats

Link to tweet