Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumO'Rourke calls America's capitalist economy 'racist'
By DAVID SIDERS 03/15/2019 01:25 PM EDT
MOUNT PLEASANT, Iowa Beto ORourke said Friday that Americas capitalist economy is racist, while he praised a proposal to give infants so-called baby bonds to address systemic inequalities.
Responding to a question at a meet-and-greet in Iowa about whether he is a socialist, ORourke reiterated that I consider myself a capitalist and said capitalism is necessary to meet myriad historic challenges facing the country.
It wont be government intervention or policy alone that makes it possible, he said.
However, ORourke added at a coffee shop here, Having said that, it is clearly an imperfect, unfair, unjust and racist capitalist economy.
more
https://www.politico.com/story/2019/03/15/beto-orourke-capitalist-economy-racist-1223475
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DRoseDARs
(6,810 posts)There has to be some kind of balance to be found between capitalism and socialism, and none of these fine candidates are advocating for purity of either system because they recognize the flaws in each.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
WeekiWater
(3,259 posts)I consider myself a capitalist
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DRoseDARs
(6,810 posts)Just don't expect further discussion. Try again?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
WeekiWater
(3,259 posts)No further discussion necessary. Thanks for the reply.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DRoseDARs
(6,810 posts)...by quoting him saying he's a capitalist, showing that's where you were asking where people came after them for claiming that as well. It was super-weird.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
WeekiWater
(3,259 posts)There isnt a similar context with the arguments against Sanders lift all boats when compared to Betos comments.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DRoseDARs
(6,810 posts)Income and personal wealth disparities have created breeding grounds for views of superiority and inferiority since time-immemorial regardless of what groups are involved, that flatly isn't in question. Sanders has been raked over the coals for his seeming tone-deafness on racism. He isn't tone-deaf, he just hears a different tone because he subscribes to the socialist theory on racism rather than how you or I might view the matter academically.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
WeekiWater
(3,259 posts)"Racism stems from economics rather than as a standalone issue."
It is Bernie Sanders position and is very limited in thought. It is not AOC's position. AOC is clearly closer to the socialist label than Sanders.
You are actually highlighting the difference I pointed out.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DRoseDARs
(6,810 posts)I mean it was really fucking gross. Thanks Google.
We're going to have to disagree on this. I was always taught otherwise, and not in a hostile anti-socialism way. I did learn from Google that Rev. MLK Jr. had some strong words on capitalism though, so there's that at least.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
WeekiWater
(3,259 posts)A lot of my thoughts have been formed by him. Truly cutting and brilliantly expressed.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Mr Tibbs
(539 posts)That's patently absurd
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
radius777
(3,635 posts)just that our current implementation of it was, and requires reform.
There's a big difference between the liberal capitalism of the Dem party (as expressed well by Beto, Warren, Kamala and others) and the democratic socialism of the DSA (as expressed by AOC, Sanders, Gabbard, etc). This difference also extends to foreign policy, where Dems adhere to the internationalist Truman Doctrine, whereas DSA are more nationalist and isolationist.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)socialists? There is a difference there. No one should use the word socialist.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DRoseDARs
(6,810 posts)And everyone should use the word socialist, properly instead of being afraid of it or using it as a pejorative. Terms and identities get wibbly-wobbly when we don't know or care to know what they actually mean or represent, or allow others with chips on their shoulders to define them for us.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
WeekiWater
(3,259 posts)She is a member of the Democratic Socialists of America. She is actually much more coherent on the topic than Sanders.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DRoseDARs
(6,810 posts)I've been thoroughly enjoying her presence and ability to do her job.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
WeekiWater
(3,259 posts)She is clear in her presentation.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Garrett78
(10,721 posts)And then you've got those who think anything publicly funded (police, fire, schools, etc.) is an example of socialism.
The Democratic Socialists, meanwhile, say they may not endorse Sanders because he's "not a real Socialist."
It would seem those who subscribe to these terms are every bit as confused as the general public.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Celerity
(43,337 posts)It drives me crazy to see people wrongly self-identify as 'socialists' (democratic or otherwise) when they clearly are not. Not Bernie, not AOC, etc etc, not one elected Democrat or Democratic caucus member advocates for the state ownership of the means of production and the dissolution of capitalism itself. Those two things are bedrock demands for true socialism in most of it's commonly understood forms.
NO idea why Bernie and the rest keep trying to re-define long settled, globally accepted, academically taught terms. It is so counter productive, and in a nation such as ours, which has tens of millions of reactionary and poorly educated RWers, opens up boilerplate social democratic (the Nordic Model is a perfect archetype) programmes and policies to moronic cries of 'Socialism!' and even (in true RWer delusional conflation) even 'Communism!.'
The DSA itself is a hot mess of many different micro-sectors of thought and ideologies, in constant conflict with each other. AOC especially (I absolutely adore her otherwise, and this association with them is her only true misstep IMHO) needs to withdraw from them altogether. She does not need them to succeed, and they hurt her cause far more than they help. The faux 'American-style' (for want of a better term) democratic socialist label that Bernie conjured up long ago is being weaponised by multiple sides to help defeat common sense (and literally completely commonplace in almost all of the rest of the advanced world as well) social democratic reforms that are so desperately needed here to re-balance our increasingly broken and dysfunctional system.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Mr Tibbs
(539 posts)It's a mixed economy based on capitalism. Nothing confusing or evil about it.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Demsrule86
(68,556 posts)call themselves anything close to socialist.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
McCamy Taylor
(19,240 posts)will become a firm part of the mainstream Democratic primary this year, just like health care for all and just say no to climate change.
Here is why. Lots of white folks feel guilty when the discussion turns to racism. They know that they have benefited economically because of our racist system but they do not feel that they are personally to blame. So they are conflicted.
Lots of minority folks feel anger towards everyone who benefits, even indirectly, by institutionalized racism. And it is easier to express that rage towards a fellow underpaid worker than towards the boss.
If the discussion becomes "wealthy capitalists create institutionalized -isms to keep all wages low" then the 99% of white folks who are not members of the 1% can say confidently "I will no longer be a dupe! I am going to support my fellow workers and join a union and stand firm against the 1%." And the 99% of minority members who are not members of the 1% can say proudly "Let's join together, my brothers and sisters and take down the Man." And suddenly, identity politics becomes a truly democratic process.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
DRoseDARs
(6,810 posts)You and I support different candidates this round (Harris has me initially and Bernie won't unless he's the candidate going into the general which, let's be honest, he won't be) just as we likely did in 2016 (I voted Bernie in the NV caucus), but your comment is a prime example of what we *should* be talking about. Each of our candidates approach subjects in different ways, some more eloquent with their words and manner than others, but they *all* want the situation better for *everyone* not just the privileged few white men. That's the Republican position, not anyone's on our side of the divide. Instead of asking if someone enough of this or did someone say too much of that, we need to ask what ideas they have to address the issues that matter. Racism and economic disparity running so rampantly it makes the Gilded Age blush. Comments like yours give context as to why these issues are important. Whether one believes that one begets the other or not, there are serious problems and we recognize them. Asking our candidates what they think we should do to address them is the correct debate to be having.
It amuses me that barely 20 years after the fall of Soviet communism (conflated with socialism), US capitalism (conflated with freedom and equality... I'm being cheeky but you know it's true ) is starting to cough and weeze as more and more people are questioning it right here at home. Millennials like myself (some old enough to be in government ie AOC), the Aughts that have started hitting voting age (and likely too the following generation whose starting year will probably be in the early 2020s) all find socialism in different shades as agreeable rather than OMG-I-SHIT-MY-PANTS-I'M-SO-SCARED. Communism is an alien concept like Sanskrit or turn-dial telephones, but socialism everyone lives with and benefits from every day. We've listened to older generations lose their damn minds over the word and we're like... lolwut? Moreover, the younger generations have been born into and further molded a culture that sees less and less color... except red. Red hot anger over bigoted hatred against all groups (Well, not Nazis... punch them right in the fucking face) and grotesque economic disparity. The old White Male power structure is in for a rough ride as the younger generations of woke white kids, oppressed minorities that have been waiting (and sadly dying) for change with the patience and stoicism of saints (I've said it before, it never cease to amaze me that we here in the US have never experienced the levels of sectarian violence other nations have had) and their forebears in the older generations all come for the Republicans saying, "Here's your coat, there's the door..."
AOC might even be nice and pour them one last drink before closing time and ask if she needs to call them a cab.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
TheRealNorth
(9,478 posts)I would have to read how this idea actually works, but it could very easily be twisted by RWNJ's as "Free money for having babies".
Questions:
Would it only be open to minorities?
Would the parents have access to the money?
I would hope people see the potential problems. This would feed into every RW'rs perception of welfare on steroids.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
McCamy Taylor
(19,240 posts)Bonds are not robbing one poor working stiff to pay another.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TheRealNorth
(9,478 posts)Bonds eventually have to be paid off, and not many are going to be moved by the claim "You don't have to pay for it today."
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Autumn
(45,066 posts)"clearly an imperfect, unfair, unjust and racist capitalist economy. That's why I don't consider myself a capitalist. Here's my question. Does Beto want to change it or continue with our unfair, unjust and racist capitalist economy system ?
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
riverine
(516 posts)successful capitalists.
I was going to change my support to Beto but this makes me hesitate.
Still Amy K or Biden.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
TwilightZone
(25,471 posts)I'd have to agree with the assertion. A chunk of the country and its economy were literally built on racism. Another chunk was stolen from the native population under the guise of economic expansion and resource exploitation.
Closer to the present, a good deal of the "economic anxiety" Trump supporters claim is a basis for their support is in reality a fear of "others" encroaching on their stuff, including jobs and other financial concerns.
We've made progress, certainly, but systemic and inherent racism still reside in the system. The private prison industry, for example, seems to be built largely on the racial inequality in the justice system.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Celerity
(43,337 posts)Also, not just the implementation, but indeed, the very outcomes all too often.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
McCamy Taylor
(19,240 posts)He was referring to immigrant groups. It is as true now as it was in the 19th century. It is on of the reason why capitalists were able to amass such fortunes in this country.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
bullwinkle428
(20,629 posts)The economic system known as SLAVERY was completely driven by capitalism! Capitalism determined that the most efficient method for putting money into the pockets of the owners of the means of production was the ownership of a class of human beings.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Mr Tibbs
(539 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
riverine
(516 posts)both which sanctioned it.
Capitalism is not to be blamed for slavery - WE THE PEOPLE were to blame for that atrocity.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
MyNameGoesHere
(7,638 posts)The poor, women, and blacks should have voted out their.. Oh wait.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
AlexSFCA
(6,137 posts)but it has to be reasonably regulated and healthcare must not be capitalized on. Democratic Party is the party of capitalism, GOP is the party of trump.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
McCamy Taylor
(19,240 posts)Beto, I am in love with you all over again! (Even though Politico's intent is probably to turn Trump's "white victimhood" supporters against the Texas white guy that they might otherwise not dislike at first sight.)
(While the source material meant this to be kneecapping) the thread here on DU is actually positive.
( )
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
tiredtoo
(2,949 posts)prior to jumping on his bandwagon.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided