Two examples of why you should take any David Axelrod critiques of Biden with a shaker of salt

[highplainsdem]

I've mentioned one of these here before. That was a few weeks ago, when Axelrod temporarily abandoned his usual sniping at Biden to praise him for the AC360 interview he did.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287230695

In a subthread there responding to what another DUer said about the "mean undertone" of some of Axelrod's criticisms of Biden, I mentioned that Axelrod had even sniped at Biden for the photo he'd posted on Twitter on Best Friend's Day:

https://thehill.com/homenews/media/447691-axelrod-mocks-bidens-best-friends-day-tweet-to-obama-this-is-a-joke-right


These YouTube videos explain the background of the photo and how President Obama had started the "joke" Axelrod was complaiing about:

As I said then, Axelrod was pushed out of the Obama White House

https://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/Felsenthal-Files/September-2013/Obama-Axelrod/

and I wondered if he was envious of Biden's friendship with Obama.


Axelrod has continued to snipe at Biden, occasionally interspersing the criticism with some praise, but an anecdote he contributed to Glenn Thrush's hit piece on Biden in the NY Times last week showed just how far Axelrod will go in his animus toward the former VP.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/16/us/politics/biden-obama-history.html

Part of what Axelrod contributed to that hit piece was his account of the meeting he and fellow Obama aide David Plouffe had with Biden when he was among Obama's top choice for his running mate.

Before I quote what Axelrod told Glenn Thrush for the NY Times story, I want to quote what Plouffe wrote about that meeting in his book The Audacity to Win:

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/david-plouffe-book-the-au_n_338273

The [first] meeting started with Biden launching into a nearly 20-minute monologue that ranged from the strength of our campaign in Iowa (“I literally wouldn’t have run if I knew the steamroller you guys would put together”); to his evolving views of Obama (“I wasn’t sure about him in the beginning of the campaign, but I am now”); why he didn’t want to be VP (“The last thing I should do is VP; after 36 years of being the top dog, it will be hard to be No. 2”); why he was a good choice (“But I would be a good soldier and could provide real value, domestically and internationally”); and everything else under the sun. Ax and I couldn’t get a word in edgewise.

I'm not surprised that Biden would have had a lot to say, given that their meeting would almost certainly have started with a question like, "Would you be interested in being VP, and what do you think you could bring to the campaign and an Obama presdiency?" That would be the logical start of such a meeting. And even if that exact question hadn't been asked, the reason for the meeting would have been clear earlier, and Biden would have been thinking about what to say.

This is Axelrod's account, in the NY Times this month:

In late July, Mr. Plouffe and Mr. Axelrod embarked on a one-day trip from the campaign’s Chicago headquarters to audition all three, starting with Mr. Biden in Delaware.

“Basically I said, ‘Forgive me for being so blunt, but how do we know you know how to shut up?’” Mr. Axelrod recalled asking. “An hour later, he finished answering. So I asked him another question.”

I don't believe Axelrod's account. Not only is the length of time Biden was speaking contradicted by Plouffe, but I don't for a second believe Axelrod would have dared ask that question of the highly admired politician Obama wanted as his VP. The only appropriate response to the snarky question Axelrod claims he asked would have been for Biden to throw them out and call Obama, and Axelrod would have been fired before he made it back to Chicago.

Axelrod's anecdote for that NY Times hit piece was petty, childish, and dishonest. The sort of snark you might expect from a badly behaved middle-schooler trying to show he's cool compared to someone he's actually envious of.

Axelrod should be above this sort of behavior, which I find incredibly disappointing.

But the fact that he isn't is a reminder that just because someone was once an Obama aide, it doesn't mean their comments about Biden are accurate, let alone well-intentioned.

And I want to add something else, re Axelrod and other former Obama aides.

I've seen suggestions on Twitter that any criticism of Biden by a former Obama aide should be viewed as Obama's own opinion -- that Obama is using his former aides to send messages to Biden.

If anyone here believes Obama would do anything so nasty, so machiavellian, so coldblooded and cruel to his friend Joe, then you have a much, much lower opinion of Obama than anyone in their right mind should have.

[hedda_foil]

1. You really are a bit of a political innocent, aren't you?

Politics is a tough business whoever you are. That includes Biden and Obama, even though they are both admirable men.

[highplainsdem]

3. ??? I'm not a political innocent, and I know politics can be a tough business.

But I don't believe Obama is sending his former aides out like malicious elves to try to make Bden's campaign die from a thousand media cuts. Popular as that theory seems to be on Twitter with Biden critics who want to believe Obama is on their side.

If you're referring to my being disappointed by Axelrod's behavior -- I'm disappointed because it's petty and childish.

Axelrod isn't being "tough." There's nothing "tough" about childish snark.

[Cha]

4. Excellent post.. Thank you!

[Thekaspervote]

7. Nailed it... thx!!

[True Blue American]

11. I agree with you.

Obama helped Joe through really bad times and I do not believe Axelrod for a minute.

His envy is showing through.

[Cha]

12. Poignant point about Obama helping

Biden through really bad times.

Mahalo, True Blue American.

[still_one]

27. Your assessment is correct highplains. This isn't from President Obama. This is from the

political opponents

Axelrod, just like Carville, Brazille, Devine, and most political operatives, are looking for their next gig and paycheck once they have left the campaigns they were associated with, and the more petty controversy they can create, the more they are in demand

[emmaverybo]

8. If Obama were that kind of politician we would know it by now. From the day Obama entered the 2008

race he ran an above-board campaign in which bashing his opposition was not allowed. Those were
the orders from the top. And no one has ever told stories about Biden being cut-throat, under-handed, devious in any way. That stuff gets known and becomes part of a political profile. The public will also see slick tricks in a politician’s behavior.

I’d say highplainsdem has it right about Obama. Axelrod? Well, like I said, back-stabbers, do or say anything to enhance oneself folks, are easy to spot.

[still_one]

28. You are right, though I wouldn't necessarily say Axelrod is a "backstabber"

Last edited Sun Aug 25, 2019, 02:48 PM - Edit history (1)

More like an opportunist looking for ways to generate a paycheck

[emmaverybo]

34. Yes. I think you have it right. And as another poster on the thread has said he's attempting to

stay relevant. No, not a back-stabber.

[Cha]

2. Wow! Thanks for all this backstory on

Axelrod, highplains!

No, I do not believe Axe speaks for President Obama in any way, shape, or form.

Axe can be insulting from those quotes and Obama would not be that way.

[Thekaspervote]

5. Agree. Posted just today here by myself, also highplainsdem that he was more than a bit snarky

To Hillary on numerous occasions.

Also, the last paragraph of the op, strongly agree there as well. All the nonsense about how president Obama sent his aides to make sure mr. Biden didn’t “sully” his legacy. Wow... who would believe that??!!

Just MHO, but wonder if Alexlrod wanted a larger role, more control over the Obama presidency ... feeling it was his right after what he did for Obama’s campaign, and Obama wasn’t having any of it

[emmaverybo]

10. There it is. Your humble opinion makes great sense.

Fix the damage, Joe (busterbrown), the world needs you.

[Thekaspervote]

14. Glad somebody likes my opinion...thx

[True Blue American]

22. Neither Do I!

Not for a minute do I believe Obama is a back stabber. Quite the opposite.

I do not pretend he was not hard nosed in his decisions as both a campaigner, Senator and President. You have to make tough decisions and protect yourself.

As I read the many articles about Axelrod he seems to have always felt slighted, even in his reporter days.

[Cha]

35. Too bad about Axelrod.. I know

I remember things he said about Hillary I didn't like, either.

President Obama was about Teamwork and truth.. not tearing anyone down. It's not the Aloha way.

TBA

[onetexan]

6. Axelrod should take lessons from James Carville on how to remain

Loyal to the master you once served. Even now he still speaks well of the Clintons.

Axelrod OTOH, is trying to stay relevant, is embittered by the fact he was forced to resign from Obama's administration, and is trying (almost desperately) to insert his 2 cents into the current political arena. I once thought well of him. Now not so much. Havent seen any other Obama aid speak critically of him or Biden. Axelrod seems to be the only one with an axe to grind.

[Thekaspervote]

9. Indeed... the truth always has a way of bubbling to the surface. Even for powerful men like axel

[True Blue American]

13. Question

Why was Axelrod forced to resign? That would explain a lot.

[onetexan]

17. Google it, but heres a link

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/08/david-kochs-monstrous-legacy.html

Sour grapes is one reason. There are others.

[True Blue American]

19. I know all that about the Koch's

Have seen many documentaries of the pollution and damage they have caused.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/barackobama/9309372/War-in-the-White-House-attorney-general-Eric-Holder-and-top-Obama-adviser-David-Axelrod-had-to-be-separated.html

https://newrepublic.com/article/77880/whats-eating-david-axelrod-noam-scheiber

[highplainsdem]

25. Axelrod lost favor because of conflict with other staffers, and money demands.

From what I remember of what I've read, the main conflicts were with Plouffe and Messina, who were being given more responsibility because the messaging during the first two years of Obama's first term, when the Tea Party was getting its message across too well, hadn't been successful.

The money dispute was due to Axelrod trying to make up for having made very little during the campaign before Obama's first term, and during his first years in the WH, when other aides were making large amounts of money off books and paid speeches.

Which Axelrod could also have done.

But what he wanted instead was a percentage of the total TV advertising budget for Obama's re-election campaign, which was expected to spend record amounts (they ended up spending hundreds of millions on TV ads). And he hired a lawyer to negotiate a deal for him.

Other staffers viewed this as trying to make too much money directly off the campaign and refused Axelrod's lawyer's demands.

There were also some disputes with other staffers as Axelrod began to make money from TV gigs and get more and more attention as a pundit. One dispute was with Stephanie Cutter.

It's ironic that some former aides, named and unnamed, helped Glenn Thrush write a hit piece a week or so ago saying Obama and Biden's relationship wasn't "always rosy." If there was anything that wasn't rosy, it was the infighting among Obama aides.

[True Blue American]

33. From my links

AXelrod and Holder actually had to be restrained by Cutkler. They were arguing over the Justice Department.

But none of that matters now. I have yet to find anything about Joe and David. For now,he sould lay off his petty remarks.

[still_one]

29. Not sure if Carville is the best example to use

[calimary]

15. Bookmarking this.

[quickesst]

16. I have gotten to a point....

....where I take any critique of Joe Biden with two grains of salt. I figure I'm about at 195 grains so far. I think there was one that I took with only one grain of salt.

K&R for highplainsdem! Always on it, and always on point.

[Cha]

18. lol.. some I've

taken boulders of salt.

highplainsdem(absolutely!) & quickesst(your name speaks for itself).

[True Blue American]

20. I seldom pay

Much attention to what any one person says but thanks to a poster I googled and read about the divisions in the Obama WhiteHouse. There were many disagreements between Axelrod, Holderman Rahm and others. But nothing about Biden and Axelrod. They clashed on how things should work.

I never listen to Axelrods show so not sure why he would say anything about Joe.

[quickesst]

30. "boulders of salt"

Yep! I've definitely been too easy on some of them.

But then again, maybe they were just misinformed. Perhaps they were just too naive. I've asked myself a couple of times, was I too hard on them?

[Cha]

36. ..

[Princetonian]

21. Ax has an axe to grind. But he won't get between brothers.

[True Blue American]

23. Talk about

Wishing for the good old days.

Obama has seen Joe go through so much. There is no way he would send Axelrod out. David needs to shut up. I guess he needs publicity for his show.

[Princetonian]

24. Joe is loyal as the day is long. Notice that Joe speaks off the cuff but never about President Obama

President Obama advised Joe as recently as last month:

Mr. Obama has said he will not make an endorsement in the primary, and has offered every candidate his counsel. But he has taken an active interest in the inner workings of his friend’s campaign, to an extent beyond anything offered to other candidates.

In his interactions with Mr. Biden — the pair had a quiet lunch in Washington last month — Mr. Obama has hammered away at the need for his campaign to expand his aging inner circle.

He has communicated his frustration that Mr. Biden’s closest advisers are too old and out of touch with the current political climate — urging him to include more younger aides, according to three Democrats with direct knowledge of the discussion.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/16/us/politics/biden-obama-history.html

to Skya Rhen

[Peacetrain]

26. Highplainsdem.. this story is such incredible bull hockey..

I live in Iowa.. and well I just posted about it in another thread and will copy in here.. (hand problems)..


" I live in Iowa.. and this is absolute bullsh*t.. "ONE VOTER SAYS" honestly..

the activists in Iowa, are possibly the farthest left progressives that are in the United States.. no kidding.. but the general Democratic party is center left and plain old Liberals.. so if all you are talking to is the activists.. Bernie Sanders would be President now and not the Trump.. I have nothing against the far far left.. they are out there working their butts off.. but they reflect their views.. and we have issues because the rest of the state is so much more pragmatic.. so I do not think for a moment anyones honeymoon is over.. David A will work his heart out for a Biden presidency if VP Biden gets the nod."

Edit to add: this was not against what your op is..I wrote this against those who are trying to make hay that somehow Axelrod is turning against Biden.. if Axelrod were doing that, he would lose so much influence in the party I think..

[FloridaBlues]

31. Axe needs to fade away, he's not helping the Dem party anymore

[comradebillyboy]

32. It's been a long time since I've taken Axlerod seriously

about anything.