If Biden is the only candidate who can truly save us from Trump, wouldn't Obama know that better

[StarfishSaver]

than anyone? And if he knows that, why hasn't he endorsed Biden by now?

Yes, I know, that's not how it's usually done. That traditionally, in normal times, former presidents don't endorse candidates in the primary.

But these aren't normal times. Aren't we often told that these times call for extraordinary measures and we can't play it safe and do things the old way? If that's the case and if Obama believes that Biden is, hands down, the best hope to beat Trump, rescue the nation and get us on the right track, shouldn't he step up and tell us that?

Or could it be that, even if President Obama thinks that Biden would make an awesome president, he doesn't necessarily believe he's the only Democratic candidate who would make a great president and that he'd also be happy with one the other candidates getting the nomination and taking on Trump? Could it be that Obama actually believes that one of the other candidates would be a better choice than Biden but he would never, ever betray his friend by saying that out loud?

[JI7]

1. Biden himself does not think that. he said others can win also and he would support

whoever is the nominee .

Obama never thought he himself was the only one that can do this/ that either.

in fact they have always been opposed to such an idea.

[StarfishSaver]

7. Interesting

[Hortensis]

80. +100. And of course Obama wouldn't endorse in the primary.

The Republicans are smashing all functional norms developed from institutionalization of principles.

We're the defenders. And not just Obama and Biden types. Democrats in general would be outraged.

[Cha]

2. Because President Obama is staying

out of the Primaries.. that's why.

[StarfishSaver]

4. Read my OP again

Why, if Trump poses such an existential threat to the country and Obama believes that Biden is the best - and possibly only - hope we have for stopping him, why is he falling back on a meaningless tradition and declining to step up and do everything he can to ensure that Biden is elected, including endorsing him in the primary?

[Cha]

9. Why don't you ask President Barack Obama?

[oasis]

36. Obama has too much class to disrespect to our party by interfering

in the process. But, 99% of Democrats such as we, already knew that.

[Thekaspervote]

37. This.. President Obama openly stated he would not support any primary candidate

That it would be unfair and wants to be fully behind whom ever wins the nomination

[oasis]

48. All Biden supporters are well aware of Obama's commendable

position on the matter. Every one of us.

I'm for letting non-supporters twist themselves into knots trying to figure it out.

[Demsrule86]

73. Your post is based on opinion...nothing more. I don't give a damn what Pres. Obama thinks

about this. Trunp poses a huge danger to this country...he will get another court pick if he wins again...I can't imagine what Trump will do to this country in four more years...so if we look at midterms...our path is clear...pick someone who can appeal to moderate voters or Trump wins. But presidents don't usually get involved in primaries...have read posts where Biden has been helpd quietly by Obama.

[StarfishSaver]

79. Yeah. People talking about their opinions happens a lot around here.

It's getting to be a thing.

[Demsrule86]

88. opinion is fine on this site...but it doesn't really prove anything and shouldn't be used to attack

a candidate.

[StarfishSaver]

99. No. It shouldn't be used to attack a candidate. And if I ever do attack a candidate, please feel fre

to call me on it.

But first, you might want to re-familiarize yourself with the definition of "attack" and learn the difference between attacking a person and declining to proclaim them to be the nation's only hope.

[Starry Messenger]

3. I think that would throw the party into turmoil

Don't see him endorsing until the Convention, or until delegate majority won by a candidate tbh

[StarfishSaver]

5. I understand that's not the way it's normally done

But Obama endorsing Biden now wouldn't cause any more turmoil than a long, protracted and potentially divisive primary race would cause.

And, as I said, isn't now the time to stop doing what we've always done just because that's what we've always done?

[Starry Messenger]

8. It's more an observation on Obama's style

I like him, but he's not really into steering outside the lanes. I'd be shocked if he did something like endorse so early, but I've been wrong before, so who knows?

[StarfishSaver]

16. I don't expect him to do that and would be surprised if he did

But the fact that he's not doing it suggests that, unlike some of the more fervent posters, he doesn't believe that Biden is the ONLY choice and that none of the other candidates could beat Trump and effectively lead the country - because if he really believed that, he wouldn't keep silent about it given the stakes we're facing.

In other words, Obama seems to think at least one and probably more of the other candidates in the race are also electable and would make great presidents.

[Starry Messenger]

52. It's just as likely Obama thinks the shitstorm from women's groups would be bad

if he put his thumb on the scale for a male candidate. It could be something else. There are a lot of subaltern groups represented by a lot of the present candidates, and coming out for one instead of the other would offend needed constituencies.

I'm sure Obama thinks most of the candidates for President are great because they are. I doubt he thinks that Biden is the only choice--although I'm sure he watches the polls just like the rest of us. (Note: Biden is about 6th in line in my own choices, so I'm not coming from a place of saying yay Biden here.)

[LanternWaste]

85. Post hoc ergo prompter hoc.

"But the fact that he's not doing it suggests that..."

Fallacies do not suggest anything other than a sloppy thought process.

[Celerity]

25. If Obama came out soon and endorsed Biden, a shedload of Sanders supporters will bolt, far more

than the already too high number who will anyway. Bernie's supporters (NOT talking DU, talking real world) this time around are far LESS a % Democratic voters now versus 2016, and are far more (again as a %) radical than last time around.

If President Obama put his thumb on the scale early, the most radical 25% (just a guess there I will admit) will go absolutely batshit and do anything to sabotage Biden, even if it means a Rump win. Hell if it was done brutally, and a tone similar to some on here have towards him has taken broadly public, Bernie might do a runner and go full Indie attempt. I would truly like to think he is not that selfish, but are we willing to roll those iron dice?

Biden, unless he has a full blown mental and/or physical breakdown (which is VERY unlikely) is already very much an odds-on favourite to win the nomination. Only way he goes down is if he collapses with African Americans, mods and cons, and the plus 55-60yo crowd. It is going to take a LOT to move those needles, especially the moderates and conservatives and the old voters. They are locked in atm. African-Americans are solid too, unless 2 things happen: He REALLY fucks up up on race, AND Harris wins Iowa and NH and NV, thus it could start a tidal wave shift to her as they will see her as viable for white voters. Obama did that to Hillary in 2008.

[MyOwnPeace]

6. The SPECIAL man that he is.........

PRESIDENT OBAMA does not press hard for issues. He allows what he believes to be the best process - the people decide.

I do not see his silence as positive or negative for Joe Biden, but rather, as allowing the "people's process" to pick who they want to lead the party.

Yeah, I'd LOVE to hear his choice, but, then again, who knows what kind of baggage that may deliver to that person. There are some people that don't hold PRESIDENT OBAMA in the greatest esteem.

[Kind of Blue]

59. +1000. "I do not see his silence as positive or negative for Joe Biden, but rather

as allowing the 'people's process' to pick who they want to lead the party."

[StarfishSaver]

67. But ...

If Trump poses an existential threat to this country and Biden is, as some are claiming the ONLY candidate who can beat him, why would Obama remain silent and run the risk that Biden won't get the nomination, instead of doing everything he can to ensure that the only person who can beat Trump is put into the position of doing that, even if it means breaking with "tradition," surely a small price to pay to save the country?

Or could it be that Obama doesn't agree that Biden is the only candidate who can beat Trump?

[Kind of Blue]

70. I couldn't agree with you more, StarfishSaver. But in this response I could not

find a reason to disagree with the response.

My core feeling is that, from reports, Pres. Obama chose the man with a long legacy as he, not me, called himself the liberal segregationist to win over moderate repubs and liberals, and old enough Not to run for the presidency due to he wanting to maintain and build upon his progressive platform. JB was useful in winning the presidency, as far as I'm concerned, and nothing more.

Further on in your OP, I reviewed some history debunking the fallacy of not endorsing before the nomination but, most important, the complicated relationship between Obama and Biden as...

Obama’s primary political focus in recent years has been on lifting up a new generation of leaders in his party, forcing Democrats beyond nostalgia for the Obama era. He has spoken frequently with friends about placing long-term hope in younger figures like Buttigieg, 37, and O’Rourke, 46, in addition to non-candidates like Stacey Abrams, 45, and Andrew Gillum, 39. The 76-year-old Biden, of course, is over twice as old as Buttigieg.

Now, said one former high-level administration and campaign official, Biden is “one of many candidates who may put forward the policies of Barack Obama. But that’s only part of the vision Barack Obama had for the country, which was younger, more diverse, moving forward. And that’s why there’s a lot of trepidation among people, like Obama, who want to stay out of this for now.”

How Does Obama Feel About Biden’s Candidacy? It’s Complicated.
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/05/joe-biden-and-barack-obamas-one-sided-embrace.html#comments

As of now and many months preceding, this is my heart and, as a kid and due to my parents' opinion about the man, I've followed and railed against JB just about as long as I can remember.

I'm so grateful that you and few others on this board will question JB's history; on a personal note that harshly impacted me, my family and so many AAs, as well as his electability. No matter the outcome, I can't tell you how grateful I am that JB is undergoing a vetting that's long overdue. I'm just sorry that I was not clear in that response.

[LanternWaste]

86. Your entire premise rests on "as some are claiming."

Yet you fail to support the existence of anyone of note, consequence or weight actually claiming as such. If it's in regards to actual posters making that claim, why not simply address them individually?

Or could it be you're simply attempting to push a narrative around on the backs of straw-men?

[StarfishSaver]

94. You need to look no further than this thread to see "some people claiming" Biden's the only candidat

who can beat Trump.

I'm not sure if anyone here saying that is of sufficient "note, consequence or weight" to merit your attention, but don't pretend I created the notion that some Biden supporters people are indeed claiming that out of whole cloth.

[treestar]

91. Just like when Bernie ran against Hillary

Bernie and the others see how the people are thinking. So they want something that would overcome that. Claims that the DNC controls it all and was handing it to Hillary was one example. Here we have the idea that President Obama not endorsing Biden can overcome that, which is pretty thin, considering that President Obama would not do that anyway. Corn Pop is already dead as a sudden death miracle to overcome what voters just want.

[yaesu]

10. Obama is very careful about influencing elections, he even held back information of russia meddling

in support of tRump because of that caution, in his own words he thought it could be viewed as political interference. I don't think he will endorse anyone until the primaries are over and may not do it at all.

[JI7]

11. he will for sure endorse whoever ends up nominee

but not until we know for sure who that will be based on math.

[MichMan]

15. Do you support him making that decision in 2016 ?

[Joe941]

68. Hindsite is 20/20 as they say.

[highplainsdem]

12. Or could it be -- despite your insinuation that Obama not endorsing Biden yet is a sign he

doesn't want Biden to be the nominee -- that Michelle Obama actually meant what she said in July, when she told CNN that she and Barack will support whoever wins the primary?

https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/07/politics/michelle-obama-barack-obama-support-democratic-primary/index.html

I see this silly no-Obama-endorsement-yet-means-Obama-doesn't-want-Biden-to-win point made a LOT on Twitter, but it's usually being made by rightwingers.

Kind of surprising to see it here, when we all know how this works, and what Michelle said.

[Cha]

13. Thank you, highplainsdem!

I knew I saw it some place that Michelle and Pres Obama were Not endorsing in the primary.

[StarfishSaver]

14. Or could it be that even if Biden is Obama's favorite, he's not the ONLY viable and acceptable

candidate in the race and that other candidates would also be likely to beat Trump and make excellent presidents were they to win the nomination and he would be perfectly happy to support them, as well, if Biden doesn't get the nomination?

[highplainsdem]

21. LOL! Enjoy your speculation. FWIW, I'm sure both Barack and Michelle will work very hard to help

elect whoever is the nominee.

But Michelle's made it clear the won't be endorsing anyone before the voters choose a nominee, so it's silly to try to paint this as somehow negative for Biden.

[Kind of Blue]

60. I'm sure as well both Barack and Michelle will work very hard to help the nominee. But I think

Last edited Tue Sep 17, 2019, 07:44 AM - Edit history (1)

the plausible reason is he's simply not stepping in because of the fallacy of tradition, but

Obama’s primary political focus in recent years has been on lifting up a new generation of leaders in his party, forcing Democrats beyond nostalgia for the Obama era. He has spoken frequently with friends about placing long-term hope in younger figures like Buttigieg, 37, and O’Rourke, 46, in addition to non-candidates like Stacey Abrams, 45, and Andrew Gillum, 39. The 76-year-old Biden, of course, is over twice as old as Buttigieg.

Now, said one former high-level administration and campaign official, Biden is “one of many candidates who may put forward the policies of Barack Obama. But that’s only part of the vision Barack Obama had for the country, which was younger, more diverse, moving forward. And that’s why there’s a lot of trepidation among people, like Obama, who want to stay out of this for now.”

How Does Obama Feel About Biden’s Candidacy? It’s Complicated.
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/05/joe-biden-and-barack-obamas-one-sided-embrace.html#comments

[qazplm135]

105. and where are they

painting that as a negative for Biden??

They aren't even addressing Biden, they are addressing those who think Biden is the only hope for winning.

[highplainsdem]

108. I guess you didn't get as far as the last sentence of the OP:

Could it be that Obama actually believes that one of the other candidates would be a better choice than Biden but he would never, ever betray his friend by saying that out loud?

[StarfishSaver]

113. Obama possibly thinking another candidate might be a better choice than Biden is a "negative"

against Biden?

Wow. The degree of Biden worship around here is even more intense than I thought.

[qazplm135]

118. how's that a negative on Biden?

Obama could easily think any one of the candidates is a better choice than Biden. So what?

You fight so hard to see attacks where none are there.

[emmaverybo]

27. It could be. Who is arguing with you? I think you are arguing with you. I do that sometimes...

[LanternWaste]

87. Could you point to, in this thread, anyone at all claiming Biden is the only viable candidate?

Or are you still working on the "some say" as a pretense?

(intentionally seeking out non-representative statements from individuals within a group and parading these as evidence of that entire group's sentiment is borderline dishonesty...)

[Thekaspervote]

38. I saw the CNN story too about Michelle saying they would not "wade" into the primary

I think this post falls into the let’s poke at Joe some more... corn pop didn’t stick

[Cha]

55. ..

[treestar]

92. +1. If President Obama wants some other candidate,

he is not endorsing them either!

[emmaverybo]

17. Kinda strange case you make for your "undecided." Guess you are thinking out loud, running

through a “what-if, then this...” scenario that does not, in fact, exist outside your imagination. Drawing a conclusion based on your imaginary hypothetical is creative!

Back to the drawing board.

Neither Biden nor any of his supporters have ever contended that Obama thinks XYZ. We don’t know what Obama thinks, but doubt he thinks what you think he does not think, and so on.

Those of us who support Biden do not express ourselves in such hyperbolic terms. No one person is going to save us from Trump, though many of us think Biden well positioned to do some clean up after, and that he might have the best EC path.

So? Many supporters believe EW has THE best plans or only Bernie can bring the Revolution. Only Harris can win a debate with Trump. Only a progressive can get out the youth vote. So it goes.

But This, your thinking, is all in your head.

Obama will endorse the primary winner and so will we all.

[Skya Rhen]

18. This is a right wing talking point - has no place here.

[Kind of Blue]

74. What?!?!? Basic right wing talking point against the right to free speech

[StarfishSaver]

81. How dare anyone post anything here that's not a big wet smooch on Biden's adorable behind

[treestar]

97. That's overwrought

You ought to expect pushback and be prepared for it. This won't alleviate it.

[DrFunkenstein]

19. He Didn't Back Biden Against Clinton

And the American people certainly didn't back him the past two times he ran.

[Thekaspervote]

39. And the reason being- he counseled his good friend not to since the death of his son came just

Months before

Why don’t you post something positive about EW? All the criticism you have of mr Biden isn’t changing the minds of voters. In fact it has just the opposite effect

[Cha]

42. Exactly, kasper.. just the opposite.

Says more about whomever is doing the insulting than anything about Joe Biden.

[treestar]

95. I agree; EW might not appreciate the idea that

she has to trash Biden to win. I haven't heard of her doing it herself.

[obnoxiousdrunk]

20. That's some

deep analysis.

[tblue37]

22. I read that Obama actually tried to talk him out of runing. nt

[Cha]

23. Link please? Thank you.

[tblue37]

26. I don't remember where I read it--either WaPo or NYT, in a long article about how their

close friendship developed out of a much cooler initial relationship. The article described Obama as trying to persuade Biden to give it a pass, and saying, "You don't have to do this."

It didn't say why, though, and I thought maybe Obama was worried about whether his friend had given himself enough time to grieve over Beau, or maybe that he could just be running because Beau had urged him to before he died, and thus Biden felt he had to fulfill a promise to Beau.

[Cha]

28. Thank you, tblue.. but because of

Charlottesville Biden does think he needs to do this.

[tblue37]

30. I suspect that, if the story is true, Obama was mainly concerned about whether Biden

would be OK with campaign pressures after losing his beloved son. I'm sure he has no doubt about Biden's values or fitness--nor should we.

[Celerity]

43. Obama Repeatedly Tried to Get Biden Not to Run for President

The former president is reportedly worried Biden will "embarrass himself."

https://www.gq.com/story/obama-to-biden-dont-run

One of Joe Biden's biggest selling points as a presidential candidate is the residual glow he enjoys from his time as vice president to Barack Obama. New Jersey senator Corey Booker even called him out for it during the first round of presidential debates, saying, "You invoke President Obama more than anybody in this campaign. You can’t do it when it’s convenient and then dodge it when it’s not."

But despite Biden and Obama's relationship being largely rosy, "Mr. Biden’s simmering ambition was a source of unease for both men," according to the New York Times, which published a deep dive into their history on Friday. The story contains some moments of Biden being characteristically odd, like one instance in 2013 when Senate majority leader Mitch McConnell said he wouldn't support any budget deal with the White House before his upcoming reelection campaign. Biden responded to the man who early on vowed to stonewall as much of Obama's agenda as possible, "Mitch, we want to see you come back."

The most surprising part of the Times story though is how Obama has on multiple occasions tried to dissuade Biden from running for president. First, in 2016, Obama pressured Biden to sit out the race because he believed Hillary Clinton was the best shot at continuing his legacy. Even though that didn't pan out for Obama, he still tried to talk Biden out of running in 2020.

Per the Times:



snip


Obama and Biden’s Relationship Looks Rosy. It Wasn’t Always That Simple.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/16/us/politics/biden-obama-history.html

WASHINGTON — Barack Obama was riding his call for generational change to the Democratic presidential nomination in the spring of 2008 when he began musing about potential running mates with aides traveling with him on the trail.

“I want somebody with gray in his hair,” Mr. Obama, then 46, told one of them. He was thinking about an “older guy,” he told another.

That older guy, people around the candidate would soon learn, was Joseph R. Biden Jr., 65, a has-been to pundits but to Mr. Obama a sweet-spot pick — a policy heavyweight with limited political horizons, assuming that would ensure loyalty and minimal drama. Mr. Obama was already phoning Mr. Biden two or three times a week to solicit advice, and to decide whether the Delaware senator’s many positive attributes outweighed his singular liability, a notoriously self-tangling tongue.

Over the next several months, Mr. Obama’s top advisers would present 30 alternatives, all of whom he respectfully considered. But his preference was clear from the start. When it came time to decide in August, Mr. Obama chose Mr. Biden over two younger finalists — Tim Kaine, the governor of Virginia, and Senator Evan Bayh of Indiana, peers in the mold of Bill Clinton’s choice of Al Gore in 1992.

“You are the pick of my heart, but Joe is the pick of my head,” Mr. Obama told Mr. Kaine after he made his choice, according to people with knowledge of the exchange.

Eleven years later, Mr. Obama’s cautions and calculations have come to roost.

snip


Joe Biden claims Barack Obama repeatedly discouraged him from running for US president

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/14/joe-biden-claims-barack-obama-repeatedly-discouraged-running/

Barack Obama repeatedly discouraged Joe Biden from running for the presidency to clear the path for Hillary Clinton, the former US vice president has claimed.

In his new memoirs published today, Mr Biden says that Mr Obama played up the appeal of leaving politics and gave little encouragement about a possible bid.

He says that Mr Obama’s pollster effectively told him he had “no real path to the nomination” and that running for the White House would “rock the boat”.

And Mr Biden even reveals suspicions that Mr Obama gave an “explicit commitment” of support to Mrs Clinton, believing she was best placed to secure his legacy.

Eventually Mr Biden declined to enter the race because of his son Beau’s death from cancer, clearing the way for Ms Clinton to clinch the Democratic nomination.

snip

[jcgoldie]

84. I'm guessing you are referring to this

The story has been reported with slight variation in multiple outlets going back to the spring. Here is the most recent google pulled up:

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/08/obama-cautioned-biden-about-running-for-president

[LiberalFighter]

24. Obama is not going to put his stamp on this.

He knows that the outcome may not turn out the way he thinks it will.

[Thekaspervote]

40. President Obama is a unifier. He wants to fully throw his support behind the nominee

To do otherwise might indeed hurt our nominee

[Politicub]

29. I think this is coming

It’s early yet, though.

When Obama does endorse, it will be a mega moment in time. It isn’t something to just put out there.

[Gothmog]

31. Right now, this is not necessary

Biden is doing well without a formal endorsement

[samnsara]

32. obama saves his support for the eventual nominee for obvious reasons

[Joe941]

33. Obama told Biden "you don't have to do this"

In reference to running for president.

[MustLoveBeagles]

34. President Obama is doing the right thing by staying out of it

Any early endorsement would seen as playing favorites.

[Thekaspervote]

41. This!!

[TomSlick]

35. At this point,

it is unreasonable to think that any of our candidates is the only one who can save us from Trump. President Obama wouldn't say such a thing because it would be wrong.

The question is which of our candidates is best positioned to save us from Trump - a decision I'm still pondering.

[StarfishSaver]

45. Ding Ding Ding!

[BlueMississippi]

44. Former and sitting presidents stay neutral -- that is the tradition

Obama would endorse only if Michelle was running.

[StarfishSaver]

46. That's a tradition, not a mamdate

[BlueMississippi]

49. And you know PBO considers presidential traditions as sacred. nt

[StarfishSaver]

51. He does?

Oh

[BlueMississippi]

53. He does

This is why he strived hard to create bipartisanship. This is why he was respected by John McCain enough to give a eulogy.

PBO is not only an extremely intelligent and erudite man, he has never tried to go outside the system because of a deep-rooted respect for the nation and its institutions - including its traditions and protocols.

[treestar]

93. +1 it is the Trumpies who don't!

[Kind of Blue]

58. As early as Dec. of '99, Pres. Clinton endorsed Al Gore 8 months

before the August convention of 2000.

Jimmy Carter endorsed Mondale in '82 for the '84 election.

Former Pres. Carter stepped in once again to endorse Barack Obama 2 months before the convention.

Truman endorsed Democrat of Montana Senator Stuart Symington 2 months before the nomination in July.

So there goes your "traditions and "protocols."

I'm sure the list would be a little longer if there weren't a ridiculous dearth of Democratic presidents - just 15 - that include the fake ones like anti-abolitionists Jackson, Van Buren, Pollack, Pierce, Buchannan and Wilson.

As far as First Lady Obama, to me, Obama knows he's a flash-point and his endorsement is like lightning in this racist country. So he's not going to chance making or breaking anyone until it counts.

[BlueMississippi]

100. Gore and Mondale were sitting VPs

of course Clinton and Carter endorsed them.

Now the situation is different -- neither Obama nor Biden are in the office.

However, please feel free to enjoy this OP which finds comfort to those who have been demoralized by the polls and Biden's seeming invincibility from repeated smears by the ultra left.

[StarfishSaver]

102. "Ultra Left"?

Interesting choice of words.

[BlueMississippi]

109. Which one would you prefer?

Far-left, extreme-left .. there are many others

It is the same way I use "ultra-right" to describe the racists, misogynists, homophobes, xenophobes -- you know -- staunch Trump supporters who ignore reality and pragmatism.

[Kind of Blue]

106. Obvious deflection, BlueMississippi.

There is nothing to explain about sitting/former Pres. Carter's endorsments as well as sitting Pres. Truman and Clinton's endorsements before the nomination.

Keep up with your own posits.

[NYMinute]

47. Another OP to weaken Biden -- incendiary by design

and with full knowledge that Obama cannot endorse until the primaries have played out.

As usual, anti-Biden posters swarm to OPs like these this like flies -- very amusing indeed.

[StarfishSaver]

50. "Obama cannot endorse until the primaries have played out" False

Obama can do whatever he pleases.

Funny how Obama and Clinton have been criticized on this board for not openly criticizing Trump and when it's pointed out that it's traditional for former presidents to refrain from criticizing the incumbent president, we are told that this is a special circumstance and they need to speak up, tradition be damned.

If Obama agrees that Biden is our only hope for defeating Trump and if any other candidate wins, we face an almost sure loss and disaster (a scenario some Biden supporters threaten) wouldn't that be a special circumstance that requires him to speak up and endorse Biden?

[NYMinute]

54. As another poster told you -- it is tradition

PBO will not break decorum and tradition just for a political win.

Being perspicacious and an astute political observer, he also knows that Biden will win anyway.

[Skya Rhen]

61. THIS: Being perspicacious and an astute political observer, he also knows that Biden will win anyway

[jcgoldie]

75. Not sure many people are buying this Biden inevitability premise any more...

[StarfishSaver]

62. "Will not break decorum because tradition" is different than "cannot endorse"

And look at DUers getting all traditionally and "he can't do it because that's just not done and it wouldn't be proper, you know" on us.

A good thing to remember the next time someone criticizes It Obama for keeping to the "tradition" of not criticizing his successor or goes after Nancy Pelosi, Jerry Nadler and other House committee chairs for following tradition and standard practice for investigations, oversight and impeachment.

[NYMinute]

98. So, are you angry that PBO has not endorsed

your favorite candidate? Thus having a vicarious glee in the fact that he has not endorsed Biden?

PBO was extremely close to and fond of HRC. He still did not endorse her until the primaries were over.

[StarfishSaver]

101. No. I'm not angry at all.

I'm just asking a question that no one seems able to answer without exposing a flaw in their argument that Biden is the ONLY candidate who can beat Trump.

If Obama, one of the two greatest politicians of the last couple of generations, believed that to be true and could with a word of endorsement make that happen, why hasn't he done it given the stakes we're facing? This isn't a time to get constrained by a "most favored nations" political tradition if a real consequence of not weighing in and allowing an unelectable candidate (i.e., according to this line of thinking, anyone but Biden) is Trump's reelection.

I think it's because while Obama has a huge regard and affection for Biden and probably thinks he'd be great president, he doesn't think he's the only candidate who can beat Trump and be a great president, so he's happy to let it all play out and let the best person win. If that's his friend Joe, great. If it's someone else, that's great, too.

It's a logical question. But instead of logical responses, the thread is full of kneejerk "Stop attacking Joe!!!" posts that follow as sure as day follows night whenever anyone asks a thought-provoking question about Biden that goes beyond asking "Isn't Joe the best? Just how awesome is he really?"

[NYMinute]

112. There is a serious flaw in your argument

A boulder is precariously situated at the edge of a cliff with its center of gravity about to go past the edge.

The bounder is sure to fall down even if Galileo, Newton and Einstein haven't said so. Their not endorsing the boulder's fall does NOT negate the laws of gravity.

[StarfishSaver]

114. What part of Biden's campaign are you equating with the Laws of Gravity?

[NYMinute]

121. The certainty of his winning :) nt

[StarfishSaver]

122. Certainty of winning the nomination or certainty of beating Trump if he gets the nomination?

[NYMinute]

124. Both

[Demsrule86]

78. That is should not...he would throw the primary into turmoil...and your post is meaningless-

nothing more than unsupported opinion and what if...trying to read Obama's mind. Obama chose Biden to be Vice President...he was given more responsibility than any VP I can remember...so that is way more meaningful than trying to determine what Obama thinks. Joe helped Obama take the rust belt...and that is why he should be the nominee...we need the rust belt more than ever and have no path to the presidency without it.

[quickesst]

56. you couldn't find this?

“President Obama has long said that selecting Joe Biden as his running mate in 2008 was one of the best decisions he ever made. He relied on the Vice President’s knowledge, insight, and judgment throughout both campaigns and the entire presidency. The two forged a special bond over the last 10 years and remain close today," the statement said.

"I asked President Obama not to endorse," he said. "Whoever wins this nomination should win it on their own merits."

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2019/04/25/barack-obama-praises-joe-biden-but-doesnt-offer-2020-endorsement/3571729002/

[StarfishSaver]

63. Yes. I'm aware of that. It doesn't change my point

If Trump poses an existential threat to this country and Biden is, as some of his supporters would have us believe, the ONLY candidate who can beat him (and you know that's exactly what some of you are telling us), why is Obama clinging to "tradition" and risking the possibility that someone else could take the nomination and room the country by losing the general. Wouldn't this be the appropriate, indeed absolutely critical, time to break with tradition and shout from the rooftops that Biden needs to be the nominee? Even if Biden says he'd rather he not since we all know Biden is a modest guy who doesn't want to look like he's bigfooting anyone but would probably actually be pretty happy if Obama gave him that kind of assist.

Or could it be that Obama knows what many of us do but some others refuse to recognize: that while Biden may be "electable" and would likely make an excellent president, he's not the only candidate in the race who could beat Trump and he's also not the only candidate who would make a superb president. And if Obama knows that and is acting accordingly, shouldn't we take heed of that in our discussions about the various candidates in the race?

[Demsrule86]

82. No it would throw the primary in disarray and do way more harm than good.

[quickesst]

110. you're right

It doesn't change your point. It completely destroys it. Biden asked Obama not to endorse him. Obama is respecting Joe Biden's wishes. Let's take this a step further. You say that if Obama thinks Joe Biden is going to be such a good president, then given the extraordinary circumstances, it is his duty to endorse him. Here's the rub. Obama has not endorsed anyone, and if you believe your choice is the best one who can beat Trump in these extraordinary times, don't you wonder why he hasn't endorsed your candidate? Maybe you should take a closer look at the person you are supporting since he's not endorsing them either. Joe Biden's campaign does not hinge on Obama's endorsement any more than any of the other candidates.

[Desert grandma]

57. President Obama never endorses in the primary.

He did not endorse Hillary until she won the nomination in 2016. The fact is that while we have a great slate of candidates, IMO only Biden can win the states of Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania. These states are crucial for a Democratic win in 2020. They all voted for Obama previously, but Orange Buffoon managed to narrowly win those states, the electoral college and the presidency. The national polls mean nothing. Hillary was ahead in those and indeed beat the Liar in Chief by almost 3 million votes. The EC college is everything and Biden is polling ahead in those states right now. I think the rust belt would find the other major candidates too far to the left for their comfort.

[StarfishSaver]

64. Thank you for perfectly making my point

If Trump poses an existential threat to this country and Biden is, as you claim, the ONLY candidate who can beat him, why would Obama cling to "tradition" and risk the possibility that someone else could take the nomination and doom the country by losing the general?

Wouldn't this be the appropriate, indeed absolutely critical, time to break with tradition and shout from the rooftops that Biden needs to be the nominee BECAUSE HE'S THE ONLY ONE WHO CAN WIN?

Or could it be that Obama doesn't believe that Biden is the only candidate who can carry Michigan, Wisconsin and Pennsylvania?

[JI7]

65. that poster is saying what they believe, not what Obama believes .

[StarfishSaver]

66. I know. But Obama's behavior suggests that their assumption is wrong

And considering how often some people embrace Obama's words and actions as support for their opinions about Biden, it's kind of hard to suddenly dismiss them with, "So, what - that's just Obama's opinion. It doesn't mean anything ..."

[Demsrule86]

72. No it doesn't. Presidents stay out of primaries...but feel free to grasp at any straw available.

[Joe941]

69. It's basically a unwritten rule that former presidents should stay out of politics...

At least for a while.

[Demsrule86]

71. More Biden bashing...I can look at an electoral map and see where the votes are...fact is Biden

is our best option. I simply don't see a path for Warren in the electoral college ...she must win specific states-moderate states and she won't...the counry is center left at best. The midterms clearly show we need moderate voters to come out for us if we want to win...also I fear we lose the house if we run Warren. The desire for a progressive, woke president has blinded some to the realities of our situation...without the blue wall (MI,PA,WI), we have no path to the presidency and neither does Trump. We win those states ....Trump is out. Thus Biden is my choice because it make political sense and make no mistake...while political calculation plays a huge role in this, I like the guy. He will be a great president.

[StarfishSaver]

76. "Biden bashing"? Seriously?

[Demsrule86]

128. Quite serious in fact.

[jcgoldie]

77. In other words...

"swallow a little bit"

[Demsrule86]

89. The electoral map combined with a analysis of the midterms and research on our best chance to

to take the senate all point to a candidate who is moderate... also Biden has ties to the Mid West states we need to win...seriously not difficult to see where and why I believe as I do.

[treestar]

96. True, who has seen a single post on how

EW, etc. will be able to win the swing states?

Where is the concern for the Senate, and figuring out which seats could possibly be turned blue? Without that, EW or BS would be progressive presidents in name only.

[Demsrule86]

129. yep...however...I think Sanders has a bit of a chance as he has ties to Wisconsin from 16...slim.

But Warren will not win there, and I believe that Wisconsin will be the decider if the election is close. And the house is in jeopardy too.

[Desert grandma]

125. I absolutely agree.

The electoral college is everything and the rust belt states are crucial to a Democratic win in 2020. I do not believe the other candidates, as good as they are, can win in those states. Biden has ties to those states as was previously mentioned. He is a very likable person and I agree with Demsrule86 that he will be a great president and someone who has the potential to unite the country.

[Demsrule86]

130. Thank you desert Grandma...if anyone can unite the country it will be Biden.

[Act_of_Reparation]

83. He'll endorse Biden if Biden wins the nomination.

He'll probably stay out of the fray until the nomination is made. He's a classy guy and that's the classy thing to do.

That being said, I think some people have a very fantastical impression of what Biden and Obama's relationship was really like.

[treestar]

90. Anyone but Biden?

Who do you think would be better and why?

[StarfishSaver]

103. Is this a response to the OP?

Because it doesn't have anything to do with what I wrote.

[treestar]

107. It's a comment on the negative approach to Biden being used

rather than a positive approach for one's own candidate.

[empedocles]

111. Obama holding back for the same reasons Pelosi holds back?

Timing for strategic impact is one reason.

[StarfishSaver]

115. That's possible

But when Pelosi is strategic and respects tradition, she's dragged for it. We keep hearing all about how the Democrats have to stop playing nice, buck tradition and do whatever it takes to stop Trump. If Obama isn't willing to put all of his muscle and clout into making sure he gets the nomination, it can only be for one of two reasons. Either he doesn't believe that Biden is the only way to stop Trump - that other candidates are also just as or even more electable - or he does believe Biden is the only way to stop Trump but he's keeping to tradition and/or being strategic, an approach that has led plenty of people here to accuse Pelosi of being weak and opportunistic when SHE keeps to tradition, plays by the rules, holds her cards close to her vest and plays the long game.

[empedocles]

123. Pelosi and Obama well know they must play the long game to maximize the likelyhood of effectively

beating trump. They know the election is a long way off politically, the left can do damage, [as LBJ knew his left, fortunately, he got his Great Society mostly done, before the left and right sabotaged him], and unforeseen things may well happen. They are 'keeping their powder dry, [unlike those who want to impeach Kavenaugh now].

'The anti trump process' is playing out how Pelosi proabably expects it to - with trump slowly weakening.

Biden seems to be the most likely, by far, to beat trump - but, there's no guarantee that Biden will politically survive.

Obama's endorsement will be louder and stronger in 2020 across the board.

Pelosi, on the other hand, - if trump hits the rocks hard, [tax returns revealed, putin billions exposed, etc., and publics and polls respond hard], seems likely to open formal Impeachment at any time in 2020].

[An aside on serious offenses and treason. LBJ knew that Nixon-Kissinger had commited treason with the Vietnamese. The Tower Commission knew and implicitly said that Reagan had committed treason in Iran-contra. In both instances experienced pols knew that there was no effective remedy available. So yes, trump has committed serious crimes and probably treason, but public awareness, anger, - and broad support, are what makes impeachment possible].

[George II]

116. Don't know if this has been mentioned before here, but Biden specifically asked Obama to NOT....

....endorse him during the primaries.

[StarfishSaver]

117. It's been mentioned several times and I'm aware of that

But if Obama really thought that Biden was the only hope to stop Trump and that his endorsement would help ensure that he got the nomination, I don't think he'd refrain from doing so, even at Bidrn's request

[George II]

119. Yes he would. Obama rightfully isn't putting himself in the middle of our Democratic candidates....

...just as he didn't do so in 2016.

Once the nominee is determined he'll be all over that person with support and heavy campaigning.

[StarfishSaver]

120. Agreed. But do you think Obama would sit out the primaries if he thought Biden was the only Democrat

who could beat Trump? Wouldn't he do everything in his power, including endorsing, to make sure that Biden got the nomination if he thought he was the only person who could prevent a second Trump term?

[empedocles]

127. Obama most wants to beat trump. If Biden was significantly threatened in the

primaries, Obama would endorse then.

Otherwise, the Obama endorsement would come when it did the most damage to trump.

[saidsimplesimon]

126. Thank you for posts that

both inform and encourage a real discussion.

I have admired former, President Barack Obama, since he gave his speech at the Convention.

If I could read "tea leaves" or "secret messages", I completely agree with your argument.

Maybe, President Obama will include his pre-election thinking in a future book?

[quickesst]

131. ok....

"Could it be that Obama actually believes that one of the other candidates would be a better choice than Biden but he would never, ever betray his friend by saying that out loud?"

But.... but if Obama believes one of the other candidates would be a better choice than Biden, and if the situation is as dire as you make it out to be, how could he possibly put a friendship in front of the fate of a nation? The premise of your argument doesn't make any sense at all. This is on top of the other post I made that you have not responded to.

[StarfishSaver]

132. There's a difference between being a better choice and being the only choice

That's the point.

[quickesst]

136. i.....

.... don't know where to go with that.

[Gothmog]

133. Why is it so hard to accept that Joe Biden is popular and electable?

Link to tweet

Biden consistently has commanded a staggering lead among black voters. Two-thirds of black voters over 65 are backing Biden, as well as 42 percent of black voters overall; Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) comes in a distant second with about 12 percent support. Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) is down at 8 percent and South Bend, Ind., Mayor Pete Buttigieg is not even registering at 1 percent.

This sounds like a pretty interesting story. Instead, “frontrunner, but …” is a common refrain. Consider the new Axios-NewsWhip 2020 tracker that found Biden has been bombarded by negative coverage. Of the 100 stories about Biden that got the most social media attention, 77 were negative. Presumably, the same is true of cable news.

Even with the magnification of Biden’s gaffe-du-jour and the flow of media admiration of Warren’s surge — both of which reflect a true story — Biden’s backers are the most committed. Nearly 65 percent of his supporters say they’ll definitely support him, as opposed to just 34 percent of those who support other candidates.....

Why is it so hard for people to grasp that Biden isn’t just the most “electable” but, rather, the candidate with positions most in line with Democrats’ preferences? His platform is made up of policies that poll incredibly well and his supporters aren’t masking their love for progressives in favor of a safe bet. They like Joe.

[StarfishSaver]

135. How does my OP in any way suggest that Biden isn't popular or electable?

[GulfCoast66]

134. Not going to opine I know President Obama's thoughts.

No one but he knows. But he made it clear he won’t endorse until we have a nominee.

But now a prediction. Worth what you paid for it.

The very minute one of our candidate has enough delegates to be the obvious winner Obama will endorse. Which will piss off some here. I think he is open to many of our candidates winning and will campaign, quietly as traditionally done, for any of them.

But will do whatever he can to prevent an obvious loser from disrupting our convention. Including weighing in heavily if it looks like that may happen.