Tonight on ABCworldnews BS tells me EW's MFA Plan Could Have a "Very Negative Impact on

[Cha]

Link to tweet

Tonight on @ABCWorldNews - @BernieSanders tells me Warren's MFA plan could have a “very negative impact” on creating jobs.

“I think that that would probably have a very negative impact on creating those jobs, or providing wages, increased wages and benefits for those workers”

Important to know what's being said out there in tv land.

I thought this was Sanders' MFA?

[George II]

1. "I thought this was Sanders' MFA?" - no comment.

[Fresh_Start]

2. but Bernie's MFA will be magical

and have no negative impacts.... 'cause rainbow unicorns will deliver it.

[wasupaloopa]

10. Both plans are heralded by gold unicorns farting glitter.

[beastie boy]

29. This is the most delightfully vivid description of MfA I've ever heard!

Thanks for making my evening

[George II]

57. Damn, that's a visual!

[Cha]

34. And, they wonder why

many of us are so skeptical!

lol.. Mahalo, Fresh Start

[Cha]

3. Not even a short one?

Not sure what's going on here.. ?

Bernie on releasing a plan to pay for MFA: "I don't think I have to do that right now."

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287327862

[SterlingPound]

6. Well in a way why should he

because no matter what he or any other candidate suggests as a plan
once it gets to commitee it will be different,
either by rate or what gets covered
and to pretend it wont
does the nation disservice IMO



so why bother when we never ask the GOP how they will do it.

GOP Healthcare on day 1 + 2 years, 288 days, 4 hours, 55 minutes and 54 seconds

[Cha]

8. The "gop" is a low bar.. this is the Democractic

primary.. we need to know what's going on.

[OldRed2450]

16. Perfect answer!

[Cha]

23. Mahalo, OldRed!

[SterlingPound]

40. We say that

but never seem to live up to it.

even the passing of the ACA isn't a "Upright dem thing"

it was passed by other than upright mean

just like everything else

and that is fine (I guess),

because its the only way it gets done

and it is ridiculous to pretend different

[Cha]

70. We need to know what's going on.

[George II]

28. Our candidates are not running against the republicans yet, they're running for the privilege of...

....our Presidential nomination.

We have a right to know from EACH candidate what their proposals are and how they're going to fund them.

[SterlingPound]

42. Wealth tax on billionaires is what was proposed

Sen. Elizabeth Warren says paying for "Medicare for All" would require $20.5 trillion in new federal spending over a decade. That spending includes higher taxes on the wealthy but no new taxes on the middle class.


Now that is just about as detailed as any other bill that gets talked about before it reaches commitee

why is there a higher bar for M4A when no matter what is said publicly it will change once it gets to the committee level?

I'm not saying Warren or Bernie dont need to spell out their ideals but to demand more from them on M4a then you do for anyone else on anything else just seem a way to delay and derail to me.

[George II]

45. But she also intends to raise the capital gains tax on less than billionaires, too.

Do we have to take it that "no new taxes" means no new categories of taxes but higher existing taxes? If that's the case, it's deceptive.

Plus, unfortunately her plan relies on on increased revenue as a result of comprehensive immigration reform AND cracking down on tax fraud, two nebulous areas of revenue.

[SterlingPound]

46. "her plan relies increased revinue comprehensive immigration reform AND cracking down on tax fraud"

I kind of like that she is willing to admit that nothing is a stand alone proposition

especially when it comes to a new program that will carve out a large part of the budget going forward.

[George II]

55. The big thing, though, is that she says "no new taxes on the middle class", but there WILL be...

...increased ("new"?) taxes on the middle class.

[SterlingPound]

58. Well anyone who believes that

i have a bridge, 2 space shuttles, and the queen mum to sell to them.


and it goes back to why try pinning a politicians down on specifics when

there are damn near none going into most legislation.


I bet no one knew more abortion restrictions were bargained into the deal to get the ACA passed.

[Cha]

74. If "..no new taxes on the middle class.."

is promised.. it better be true.

[Cha]

71. Yes there will.

[George II]

25. I didn't understand that comment when he made it. Does he, or anyone else, really expect people....

....to vote for them with $trilion plans with no idea of how they'll be paid?

Is he going to wait for everyone else to do so and then take the best parts of each and call them his?

[Cha]

30. Who knows what his

game plan is.

By the reactions on that twitter thread.. it's not very smart if he wants mfa to succeed.

Thanks, George!

[mcar]

4. ...

[Cha]

73. ..

[BeyondGeography]

5. Your turn on the whole cost/revenue issue, Bernie

Until then, your criticisms are gratuitous.

[George II]

26. Exactly, he's criticizing Warren's funding proposal but he doesn't have one yet?

[Cha]

78. Because of course he is..

[still_one]

7. At least Senator Warren is far more detailed where the money is coming from, Bernie MFA is far

more vague

[Cha]

17. Yeah, amazing that BS is

dragging EW's plan when I thought they were the same.

Mahalo, still_one!

[George II]

27. Vague is being nice.

[Cha]

75. +1

[underthematrix]

9. This is good news for the BIDEN campaign. I suggest we stay out the way and let them duke

it out.

[BeyondGeography]

11. Biden, Buttigieg and others have 'splainin' to do too

But in releasing her proposal, Warren has thrown down the gauntlet before the other candidates — who support Medicare for All Who Want It or some other type of public option — to be a whole lot clearer about what they mean.

Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, Pete Buttigieg, et al.: Does your public option — a government insurance policy that anyone may buy — resemble Mr. Sanders’s enhanced Medicare, or current Medicare or Medicaid, which is far more bare bones?

Voters need to know.

There’s another obvious reason the candidates have been so close lipped on specifics: To calculate how to pay for any of the plans, the candidates have to say how they intend to bring down prices — for hospital stays, drugs, procedures, devices, doctors’ visits, surgeries. Americans often pay two to 10 times what patients pay for these items in other developed countries.

Those prices will have to come down to make any plan viable without breaking the bank. To really assess any plan, we’ll need that kind of information.

Ms. Warren has courageously stepped into that fraught territory, with numbers that have very likely sent shock waves through the health care industry...

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/04/opinion/warren-medicare-for-all.html

[underthematrix]

14. I always understood the PUBLIC OPTION was just another

health insurance but the provider would be the U.S. govt. I'm guessing they'll do it through a contract with big providers like Kaier, United Health, etc.

[Demsrule86]

49. That might be true if people liked M4A...but it is not popular. And since a public option was

supposed to be part of the ACA...there is an existing plan. No need for huge money as this would not take the entire country and put them on Medicare-but only those with shitty work insurance and those who states would rather kill them than expand medicaid...after fighting with medicare to day over sis in laws broken leg...not feeling too kindly towards them.

[Cha]

19. Who knew Sanders would have

complaints about EW's Mfa plan!?

Mahalo, underthematrix!

[crazytown]

43. Me. Myself. I.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=334510

[Cha]

47. Yes, you called it!

Thank you, crazytown!

[crazytown]

54. Biden puts the screws on Bernie

so Bernie puts the screws on Elizabeth
(the next debate ought to be interesting)

[Cha]

22. There's this..

Link to tweet

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

12. Aren't they pretty much the same?

[ritapria]

15. Bernie conceded taxes for Middle Class will go up to finance MFA

Elizabeth said a couple of days ago that taxes will go up "only for billionaires" …… A quite dubious assertion …..

[BeyondGeography]

20. She misspoke

Capital gains tax for the top 1 percent is increased as well.

Bernie’s certainly not comfortable with some of her cost estimates, ie paying doctors 110 percent of the Medicare rate. But until he spells out his own estimates he’s just taking potshots.

[ritapria]

21. Thank you for the clarification

[mcar]

13. Boy, am I confused

[Cha]

35. Right.. and I don't think being

confused over mfa is a productive goal for getting converts.

Mahalo, mcar!

[peggysue2]

18. Kick and Recommend!

Because this is worthy of continuing discussion

[Cha]

33. Yes, it is.. so..

neener..

Link to tweet

Mahalo, Peggysue!

[OldRed2450]

24. Immigration reform?

I'm curious if that is the issue Bernie has with Warrens plan...

[George II]

56. He's already on record as being against increased immigration, "taking jobs from Americans."

[Tarheel_Dem]

31. WTF?

[peggysue2]

32. Think what Sanders is specifically talking about is Warren's Medicare Head Tax

as opposed to raising the payroll tax which is a more progressive approach and eliminates the ability of employers to game the system.

The clearest explanation of the unintended consequences of Elizabeth Warren's funding approach is here:

https://www.peoplespolicyproject.org/2019/11/01/warrens-perpetual-medicare-head-tax-is-unworkable-and-bad/

Hoarse Whisperer (for those of you who follow his twitter account) referenced this explanation, even though he hated to agree with Bruenig's conclusions.

In any case, I think this is what happens when you try to reverse-engineer a funding scheme primarily to eliminate middle-class tax liabilities. Those taxes are something Sanders has admitted will be critical in the funding a M4A package. In addition Warren has included numbers most people have claimed are overly optimistic to downright impossible to rely on: Immigration reform, for instance or how much money could be saved through stricter IRS enforcement rules.

But after all the hollering, I think we're beginning to see how a mandatory Medicare 4 All push will tie an anchor around the Democratic Party for 2020.

I read a tweet by Rick Wilson today who says GOP pollsters are already testing the M4A arguments--taking away private insurance and replacing it with a government run program, then comparing it (not saying this is fair) to the inefficiencies of the Post Office or the DMV or TSA. The whole idea is to invoke fear and anxiety. According to Wilson (yes he's a Republican strategist), the pollsters are in heaven with the results.

We're having an uncomfortable reality check. Anything that lessens our chances to get rid of Trump? Needs to be thrown overboard, period.

[betsuni]

36. Mirror, mirror on the wall, who's most progressive of them all?

[Cha]

39. The battle of the most

prog! Who will triumph?!

[betsuni]

53. I wonder what Warren thinks about all this.

The constant battle to be most progressive. I guess I still have SNL's Warren in my head, where she says everybody said "Cool!" when Bernie talked about Medicare for All and then turned to her and said, "Fix it, mom," because it feels like Warren indulges Bernie's need to be the most progressive of them all, like a mom. She should be careful.

[Cha]

60. I agree...

I saw a tweet today that said.. they would be a lot more impressed with EW if she wasn't whatever to BS all the time.

And, you know I would!

[betsuni]

64. It will not turn out well.

[Celerity]

41. Biden: 'I have the most progressive record of anybody running ... anybody who would run'

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/434416-biden-on-potential-candidacy-i-have-the-most-progressive-record

Link to tweet

sorry, I couldn't resist

no malice intended

[Joe941]

37. This is a blow to EW.

[Celerity]

44. and a self-inflicted fairly large wound to Bernie

most well sussed in political junkies and reporters (unless they specially are true policy wonks specialising in healthcare) couldn't explain the differences between a Warren MFA and a Sanderite MFA plan.

if they can't, imagine a basic voter who follows this all now as much as they follow the Uzbekistan national football team

[highplainsdem]

38. K&R!

[Cha]

50. Thank you,

highplainsdem !

[Peacetrain]

48. K&R!!!!!!

[Me.]

51. He Makes My Head Hurt

as it spins round trying to keep up with his positions. So he's not pushing M4A now?

[Cha]

61. Seems he's just

not pushing EW's mfa.. but his mfa is better.. whatever that is?

From the majority of twitter's response.. he's not helping mfa.



OT.. Spectrum tv, phone, and internet went out Saturday night at 6:30pm Hawaii time and was still off at 12:30am went I went to bed. I was so worried it was my computer again until I called them and they told me it was pretty much Island wide again. You can imagine my relief! Just another MercRX thing showing off.

[Me.]

62. OT: I'd Freak

after the initial trouble to be in the soup again. Can we hope that Rx is giving the traitor as much trouble as it's giving us?

[Cha]

63. LOL Thank You.. I Did!

I think it does!.. he's a Gemini

Mahalo, Me! I needed this after the last couple of weeks I've had dealing with that Planet

[TidalWave46]

52. Not sure how many times he has to show some people before it sets in.

BS is about BS first. This is a clear example of it. So many things he could say and he went with that. Won’t help him. Won’t help the cause he is fighting for. Will help Republicans.

It’s not that he doesn’t care about these things. His first instinct is simply about self.

[kcr]

66. Yep. His cause is himself.

He'd rather kill the cause of M4A than see anyone else successfully champion it. Bernie Sanders stands for Bernie Sanders. This stunt proves it.

[Cha]

68. Doesn't have to show

me.

[TidalWave46]

69. Me neither. I'm well read on his life.

[Indykatie]

59. Bernie Has Been Screaming for M4A for All These Years And Had No Clue How to Pay For It.

Shame on us Dems and the Media for letting him getting away with this. It's true that any plan to pay for M4A will have negative consequences on taxes for some and the millions that work in jobs administering the current system but don't deliver direct healthcare services. Only Warren has had to offer up a plan to pay for this version of universal healthcare and yes it will cost her support. Let's see how Bernie responds in the weeks and months ahead. Him refusing to say how he would pay for his healthcare plan won't fly.

[highplainsdem]

65. Cha, Sanders is talking about Warren's plan for FUNDING MFA -- see this article:

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bernie-sanders-calls-plan-fund-medicare-progressive-elizabeth/story?id=66715246

Sanders also told ABC News he thinks Warren's plan could have a “very negative impact” on creating jobs because of the funds it would draw from employers. Warren's plan calls for nearly $9 trillion from employers who would pay the government a slightly smaller percentage of what they currently pay to supply their employees with health insurance.

Warren's plan calls it an "employer Medicare contribution."

“I think that that would probably have a very negative impact on creating those jobs, or providing wages, increased wages and benefits for those workers,” Sanders told ABC News. “So I think we have a better way, which is a 7.5% payroll tax, which is far more I think progressive, because it’ll not impact employers of low wage workers but hit significantly employers of upper income people.”

[BlueMTexpat]

67. ...

I think that BS is jealous. JMO.

[BlueIdaho]

72. Sometimes Bernie engages in magical thinking. nt.

[PhoenixDem]

76. lol

[lostnfound]

77. Would not be shocked if he ended up endorsing tulsi gabbard

Before This thing is over 👀