Klobuchar: Woman with Buttigieg's record wouldn't be in debate

[TexasTowelie]

CHICAGO (AP) — The 2020 Democratic presidential primary campaign drew a record six female candidates to the field. But with just less than three months until voting starts, only one has risen to the top tier.

Is it sexism or just politics?

That's the debate that erupted Monday as one of those candidates, Sen. Amy Klobuchar, publicly complained about gender bias in the race, saying voters and the media were giving rival Pete Buttigieg, a small-town mayor, more support and attention because he's a man. A woman with a similar resume, Klobuchar argued, wouldn't be taken seriously enough to make the debate stage.

The comment seemed to touch a nerve in an election where gender politics is never far from the surface. Many in the party believe Hillary Clinton was a victim of sexism and voters who hold women to a different standard when she lost to Donald Trump in 2016.

They're still hungry to elect the first female president and vigilantly working to combat signs of bias.

Read more: https://www.sctimes.com/story/news/local/2019/11/12/klobuchar-woman-buttigiegs-record-wouldnt-debate/2573099001/
(St. Cloud Times)

[Arkansas Granny]

1. I've been under the impression that being on the debate stage was decided

by the amount of money that a candidate had raised. Are there other criteria?

[JonLP24]

3. The criteria is unique donations + qualifying polls

There are some candidates that would qualify for every debate based on unique contributions alone but they struggle in polling.

[pnwmom]

9. The amount of media attention is directly related to how many individual donations

and the number of dollars raised.

[Chemisse]

2. Crying sexism when it is not warranted is disgusting.

There is plenty of sexism in presidential politics and it was on full display in 2016. But Mayor Pete has not advanced over Klobuchar because he is a man and she knows it. We are not voting on resumes. He is strikingly impressive and she is mediocre.

Using accusations of sexism to move the needle in her direction is demeaning, desperate, and should disqualify her in the minds of voters, imo.

[pnwmom]

8. She is absolutely right. A 37 year old woman mayor of a town of 100K would be laughed off the stage.

This has nothing to do with Amy in particular. This is just one more example of how women are held to different standards than men. And it's why in 2019 there STILL hasn't been a single female President of the US.

[Funtatlaguy]

10. What if that woman was openly gay/Christian/Vet?

Those things are more interesting than the small mayor thing.
Pete is very different than anyone we’ve ever had.
An openly gay married person that served in Afghanistan and openly talks about his religion.
Add in speaking seven languages and being extremely smart and well spoken.

[BeyondGeography]

11. She wouldn't run not least because virtually no one would encourage her to

She’d be told to go get more credentials. And once that was accomplished she would be called elitist.

[Funtatlaguy]

14. Quite possibly. Sexism certainly exists and I will never

fully understand the men (and some women) that dismiss a woman in authority completely out of hand. Maybe it’s their Mommy issues.
We are Sooooo Overdue for a female President.
I hope and pray that Warren will be the first.

[StarfishSaver]

27. Exactly

Women and minorities are always told we're not ready. They when we pile up the credentials so that our qualifications are unquestionable (and far superior to everyone else's), we're suddenly elitist and establishment and we're then told the guy with no credentials is fresh and unencumbered and should get ahead of us in line.

[dsc]

38. actually lesbians have been far more sucessful than gay men

lately in terms of political runs. Chicago, Houston for example have had lesbian mayors. Both US Sentators who are LGBT are women. One of the two governors, and our first one, is a woman.

[Quackers]

53. "She'd be told to go get more credentials." Isn't that exactly what many have said about Pete?

Even many here have dismissed him from having a chance because he’s not a big name, is only a mayor, and comes from fly-over country. I’m not saying there is no sexism in the elections, I’m simply stating that Pete has had to overcome his own hurdles and prejudices many in the country still hold toward LGBT people.

[BeyondGeography]

54. Pete was promptly and enthusiastically embraced by the donor class and its attendant chatterers

which laid the foundation for his rise. He got to where he is on talent but also with a helping hand from the establishment which is quicker to invest in men with potential than women.

[pnwmom]

15. No. A 37 year old lesbian mayor wouldn't be taken seriously either,

even with military service and a bunch of languages.

[StarfishSaver]

43. A 70+ year old female small state senator in rumpled clothes and unkempt hair

wagging her finger and railing against "the Establishment" wouldn't be taken seriously as a candidate and future president, either.

[pnwmom]

44. No? I thought they'd love a 70 year old female socialist!

[thesquanderer]

22. re:"A 37 year old woman mayor of a town of 100K would be laughed off the stage."

Those credentials aren't so wildy off from Sarah Palin's in 2008, who was not laughed off the stage nearly quickly enough. Though she had graduated from being mayor of a town of 6500 (uh huh!) to being governor of a state of 700k, but even then, only for a very short period of time (like a year and a half before she became VP nominee).

Buittigieg certainly has gotten plenty of critiques of being young and inexperienced. But he is exceptional in many ways. And to the extent that his maleness gives him an edge, I'm not sure that isn't countered by his gayness.

[StarfishSaver]

28. She actually was laughed off the stage

The only reason she was there at all was that McCain anchored her to him as his running mate, which is very different than running on her own, as Mayor Pete is doing. Otherwise, she wouldn't have gotten anywhere near the stage. Had Palin decided to run for president on her own with those credentials, she wouldn't have been taken seriously at all.

[thesquanderer]

33. It doesn't take "credentials" to get onto the debate stage.

It takes money and organization.

So the question becomes whether it takes "credentials" to stay there, or to get significant support... and I think the answer is still No.

Buttigieg has generally been reasonably impressive in the debates. More so than Klobuchar, though she finally seemed to find some more solid footing at the last one. But heck, Williamson, Steyer, and Yang arguably have less credentials than Buttigieg, and they got onto the stage. Once you're there, it's things other than "credentials" that determine whether you stay there. If Klobuchar trails the less credentialled Buttigieg, I think their genders have little to do with it.

Honestly, Obama's credentials weren't so strong either. And I don't think sexism is any more of a burden than racism.

[BeyondGeography]

34. How do you get money to build the organization?

You think the cash spigot would have been opened up for a woman with Pete’s credentials and ID the way it was for him? You need to dig a little deeper here.

[thesquanderer]

35. I don't know how Pete raised the money. But...

...I suspect that very few 37 year old mayors could do it, and his ability to do it was not because he was male, as most male young mayors probably couldn't have done it either. Maleness may help, gayness may hurt, but in the end, I really think it was about the individual.

I think it's a bad line for Klobuchar, but if it helps her shore up some "feminist" support, maybe it's smart strategically, I don't know. Similarly, I thought the Gabbard attack on HRC was a bad idea, but it probably ended up helping her make the debate (it certainly got her a lot of publicity), so maybe that was smart strategically.

[BeyondGeography]

37. It doesn't help politically but she made a point that everyone here should grasp

Warren has faced the same crap too, with Biden accusing her of elitism. A guy who had an extremely thin resume before he ran for Senate in 1971 compared with what Warren had achieved before 2012. Women simply don’t get the benefit of the doubt the way men do, and when they address those doubts by building their resume then comes the snickering about aggression and elitism. We need to be conscious of that.

I’m not a real fan of Klobuchar but this is the basic point she was making and I’m glad she did.

[StarfishSaver]

41. Aggression, elitism ... But don't forget "ambition"

How often are women criticized for being "too ambitious" while similar ambition in men is treated as an attribute?

Hillary was consistently attacked as some kind of Lady Macbeth for supposedly developing the ambition to one day be president when she was First Lady. While her husband was praised for achieving an ambition to be president first triggered when he shook JFK's hand in 1963.

[BeyondGeography]

48. It's nuts

and not only does it hold us back, it opens the door to some really sorry outcomes (ie Trump).

[pnwmom]

46. If sexism isn't a burden for women, then how come no woman has ever been President,

despite being more than half the population?

[thesquanderer]

49. I did not dismiss sexism. But...

...there is also racism and "gayism."

Of course there is sexism. Why has no woman ever been president? Sexism may not be the only reason, but it certainly plays a part... quite obviously, as women didn't even have the right to VOTE until almost 100 years ago. That was surely sexism, and if women couldn't even vote, they were certainly unlikely to be elected president!

And for a long time, candidates were chosen in the proverbial smoke-filled rooms. Essentially, it was the men in power who were selecting the candidates in the first place.

There was also sexism built into the entire culture. It wasn't long ago when so many women were told by their parents that they didn't need to go to college, and their ambition didn't need to consist of anything more than finding a mate and raising children. These women were not kept out of politics by a sexist political establishment, they were kept out because they were brought up even by their mothers to believe it was not their place. A woman president requires not just a political establishment willing to support the candidate AND people willing to vote for her, but also women who want to run, and as a society, for a long time, we were not cultivating that, either.

[StarfishSaver]

59. Sexism isn't the only reason we've had no women presidents?

What are the other reasons?

[thesquanderer]

62. There are tons of presidents we "haven't had"...

...after all, we only get to pick one every 4 or 8 years, so there are limited opportunities. Are you likewise going to say that anti-semitism is the only reason we haven't had a Jewish president? Bias against Asians is the only reason we haven't had an Asian president?

And as I pointed out, the sexism ingrained into society has only more recently become less pervasive (i.e. right to vote, women being brought up to believe they had more opportunities, as well as actually having more opportunities). So while sexism alone in some way or another is sufficient explanation for having no women presidents for probably our first 200 years or so, I think it is only one among numerous factors more recently. Heck, if it wasn't for James Comey, we'd probably have a woman president now. (Or pick your preferred reason, among the numerous reasons we lost, any one of which might have made the difference.)

Honestly, having had a black president (which I think was a greater hurdle, from a group who didn't even have the right to vote until 1964) makes me feel that there is no "anti-something" bias that can keep anyone out of the white house. Except maybe an atheist (or at least someone who admits they are one).

[StarfishSaver]

64. As a black woman who has often been a "first," I can tell you, without equivocation

the fact that I managed to break through barriers of racism and sexism does not mean that those barriers don't continue to exist for the vast majority of black women - and even for me.

Barack Obama's election as president is not proof that there is not still substantial bias against minorities in politics.

The fact that one extraordinary black person managed to overcome the obstacles to achieve what no other black person was able to achieve, while all manner of white men - even very mediocre ones - have been able to do it, in no way demonstrates that anti-minority bias doesn't operate to block most other minorities from getting in the door.

[thesquanderer]

65. Except I never said there was no sexism (or no racism). Only that it was not the ONLY factor.

Maybe the confusion came from my line,

no "anti-something" bias that can keep anyone out of the white house

- I didn't mean there were no anti-something biases, only that I feel that they are not so overwhelming that, all by themselves, they would be sufficient to keep someone out of the WH.

[pnwmom]

45. She was by DEMOCRATS. nt

[thesquanderer]

50. Smart vs. stupid, and sexist vs. not, do not split along party lines. (n/t)

[pnwmom]

51. My opinion is that Democrats are smarter and also less sexist. n/t

[thesquanderer]

55. Even if your opinion is true...

...it might be true on the whole, but I am quite sure there are some Republicans who are smarter than some Dems, and that there are some sexist Dems and some non-sexist Republicans.

[Cartaphelius]

24. And yet he wasn't.

Might it be because he was so well spoken? Organized? Well read?

[obamanut2012]

12. Except she is absolutely right

Lori E. Lightfoot or Vi Lyles would be snarked at for running, even though I believe Lightfoot is much more qualified to run, and Lyles is just as qualified and maybe even more so. And, they run Chicago and Charlotte. No way either would make it.

[MrsCoffee]

20. Well good thing she isn't doing that.

She is 100% correct.

[BeyondGeography]

4. Her main point isn't that he's unqualified

Last edited Wed Nov 20, 2019, 08:01 AM - Edit history (1)

She agrees that he has the potential to be President, but all other things being equal a woman wouldn’t be given the same opportunity as Pete right now. IOW, women are held to a higher standard and need to have much more than potential going for themselves to be taken as seriously as men.

She’s right, and it’s a point well made and worth making, but it’s not going to make a difference for her in this race.

[kevink077]

5. Records..

Amy Klobucher’s record of mistreating staff goes back 2 decades. She needs to look in the mirror to see the reason she cannot get traction, and it has nothing to do with gender. You are not a victim, Amy.

[obamanut2012]

13. lol

[pnwmom]

16. This is not about Amy. There hasn't been a single woman President ever, even though

women are more than 50% of the electorate. And a 37 year old lesbian woman mayor of a town of 100K would be considered a joke.

[judeling]

19. Ahh the Boss from Hell again

There is so much less to that story then perception allows.
First tell is the absolute dearth of staff stories out of her campaign. With this being such an early story where is the follow up.
As county attorney she had very low turn over.

To get back to the point of the post, it is interesting that for the first years of the turnover metric that the stories are based on 7 of the top 10 Senate turn over staffs were women. Were all the women in the Senate at the time abusing their staff or was gender perceptions playing a role, I have my opinion.

Senior staff turns over slowly. Which leads to the next problem.
She has one of the most poached staffs, Out of a staff of about 30 the Obama administration for example pulled something like 36 out of her shop. She has former staffers littering Washington poached out by promotion.
Her pace is relentless, her staff carries more bills and she has one of the most expansive travel schedules of anyone in the Senate and has had for years. She has basically replaced her Farm, Commerce, and Democratic fund raising schedule with a presidential campaign while still doing her day job by missing fewer vote and committee and subcommittee meetings of any of the candidates while maintaining close to the same output. In a high stress environment hers is one of the highest simply do to workload.

Are the stories true, yes. She has a temper that she lets out mainly in the family of her staff. Does her big law style of management fit everyone, no. Does her attention to detail come off as nit-picky, sometimes. But in a President are those attributes a downside?

If that is all they have Amy will be fine.

[StarfishSaver]

29. Ummm.

Oh, never mind. Everyone can see what you did there.

[Kurt V.]

6. I'm glad she said this. and of course Clinton was a victim of sexism.

[whistler162]

7. So Senator don't vote for him in the Primary!

[MrsCoffee]

21. Whoosh......

Her point appears to have flown right over some heads

[whistler162]

67. At least you know you missed the point!

This is a popularity contest with three requirements

"No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."


Just because the Senator needed to attack the Mayor, well that is her problem. Also a point against her in my book.

[IronLionZion]

17. What's Trump's qualifications?

The argument could be made that if an unqualified toxic pile of shit can be president, anyone can.

Sure Pete is the mayor of a small town. He's also gay, a veteran, and Rhodes scholar who speaks well and gets a lot of support in the Midwest.

Are Democratic voters sexist? Elizabeth Warren is in the top tier and gets lots of support.

[Tarc]

18. She ain't wrong

White, male privilege throws aside many doors.

[LongtimeAZDem]

23. As was pointed out the last time this was posted, Marianne Williamson debunked that idea

[The Valley Below]

58. You beat me to it.

I greatly admire Sen. Klobuchar and strongly agree that lingering sexism is a big problem in our politics and in society at large--but the specific charge against Mayor Pete is unjustified in my estimation.

He is a super-star in the making. He has got "it."

And at this moment--to make my biases clear--I'm leaning Biden/Klobuchar 2020.

[StarfishSaver]

60. How has Williamson debunked this idea?

[LongtimeAZDem]

68. She made it to the debates with no political record at all. None. Zip. Nada.

[Gothmog]

25. I agree with Amy

Mayor Pete is the mayor of a small town

[StarfishSaver]

26. This is true.

It's also likely that a minority candidate wouldn't be either. And definitely not a female minority.

Just look at the contrast between the post-election reception/expectations of Beto O'Rourke and Stacey Abrams. O'Rourke, who lost his race, was treated like the Second Coming and immediately elevated to national status with presidential buzz. Abrams was treated as an also-ran. When people noted that O'Rourke had lost his race and was getting ahead of himself, the response often was, "Yes, but Texas is a red state and he came sooo close!" When people suggested Abrams run for president, the response was usually, "She couldn't even win Georgia!"

There is definitely a double standard.

And discussing this double standard is not an attack on Mayor Pete (any more than calling out white privilege is an attack on white people), so nobody come at me with that. Klobuchar just stated a plain fact, as uncomfortable as it may be to some people.

[pnwmom]

47. +1000. nt

[zaj]

30. Uh, Tulsi Gabbard says "Hi"... from the debate stage

[zaj]

31. It's also not a good look for any Dems to bash everyday people...

...

[zaj]

32. In day all of this while agreeing...

... that women have the biggest hurdles to clear.

[redqueen]

36. Marianne Williamson. nt

[aikoaiko]

39. I don't know how Klobuchar can make this claim with Williamson having made the debates

[redqueen]

40. Well it's getting her some attention.

Not sure how much she's raised this quarter but her burn rate last quarter was not sustainable.

[pnwmom]

57. She's a pop media person with a large preexisting platform. nt

[aikoaiko]

61. Right, people, men and women, with lesser credentials have to do things to gain attention

In Williamson's case it was beforehand.

I would agree with her larger point that it's more difficult for women to get attention, but I don't think it's impossible for a woman with mayor experience to breakthrough.

[Jarqui]

52. I'm uncomfortable with Amy's position some - the way it came across maybe and partly

Like most of the Dem candidates, I think Pete has a lot of appealing characteristics beyond his resume. Elizabeth, Amy & Kamala appeal to me because of who they are and what they represent.
For me, it has nothing to do with male or female.

Having said that, does some form of misogyny go on with the electorate.
No doubt in my mind that it does. Even some women are guilty of that.
I wish that wasn't so

[Bettie]

56. She's not wrong

a woman who had the same resume as Mayor Pete would never have got this far, she'd have been dismissed long ago.

[jalan48]

63. Sounds like Amy is getting ready to fold up her tent.

[MarcA]

71. It does look like a hail mary, but we'll see. n/t

[dsc]

66. I have to say it is beyond irritating as a gay male

to see that the minority status of gay males is just erased. Had Buttigieg come out in the military he would have a dishonorable discharge. His husband, a teacher in Indiana, could be fired tomorrow with no recourse whatsoever. Realtors, store owners, doctors, and others can refuse them service simply for being gay. None of that can happen to Klobuchar for being a woman

[BuffaloJackalope]

69. Grover Cleveland had less.

[Act_of_Reparation]

70. She's absolutely right.

He is mayor of a small city where maybe 10% of the eligible population actually participates. The man won reelection in 2014 with less than 9,000 votes.

He doesn't have nearly the same experience or political capital that his closest competitors all have. Dude needs to win a statewide office somewhere and then get back to us.