Bernie Sanders's Support for F-35 Jets in Vermont Angers Some Backers

[TomCADem]

Bernie Sanders is all for cutting military spendings, except when comes to building expensive military hardware in Vermont as is the case with the F-35, a jet that even war hawk John McCain has said, "It has been an incredible waste of the taxpayers' dollar and it hurts the credibility of our acquisition process, our defense industry."

To put this into perspective, the Obama administration itself tried to cut or kill the F-35, yet you have Bernie Sanders of all people insisting that we buy more military hardware.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/bernie-sanderss-support-for-f-35-jets-in-vermont-angers-some-supporters-11566310652

BURLINGTON, Vt.—Bernie Sanders’s support for a plan to base military jets in his home state has put him at odds with some progressives who otherwise approve of his platforms.

Mr. Sanders has joined with Democratic and Republican officials in Vermont to support the plan, which is set to start sending F-35 jets to the Burlington International Airport next month and base 20 aircraft there by the summer of 2020.

Mr. Sanders, in an interview with The Wall Street Journal last week, said the jets would provide an economic boost that he would prefer go to Vermont, rather than another state, and that the purchase of the jets—which will replace older ones that the state’s Air National Guard squadron used—had already been approved.

* * *
If the program doesn’t come to Vermont, Mr. Sanders said, it would be “a major blow” that would shrink the state’s Air National Guard. “If they don’t have planes to fly, there ain’t going to be too much for them to do,” he said.

[TomCADem]

2. F-35 jet a waste of taxpayers' dollars, say McCain, Gates

Bernie is often given a free pass with respect to his actions, words and votes. The F-35 is a great example of perception being far different then reality. While Bernie's campaign likes to portray as as person who looks to cut back military spending, at the end of the day, Bernie was out there looking for military pork. Sure, he is happy to cut programs that are not based in Vermont, but if it is built in Vermont, Bernie could out McCain, John McCain when it comes to military spending.

https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Latest-News-Wires/2011/0217/F-35-jet-a-waste-of-taxpayers-dollars-say-McCain-Gates

Defense Secretary Robert Gates urged U.S. senators on Thursday to join the U.S. House of Representatives in eliminating funding for a second engine for the Lockheed Martin Corp (LMT.N) F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.

The Pentagon scored a victory on Wednesday in its five-year battle to kill that program when the House voted 233 to 198 to eliminate $450 million in fiscal 2011 funding for the engine being developed by General Electric Co (GE.N) and Britain's Rolls-Royce Plc (RR.L) as an alternate to an engine built by United Technologies Corp (UTX.N) unit Pratt & Whitney.

Gates welcomed the vote on the amendment and said he hoped the Senate would support the move by House lawmakers.

"I also would express the hope that the Senate will continue to reject the unnecessary extra engine for the F-35 as it did the last time the Senate spoke to this issue, in 2009," Gates told the Senate Armed Services Committee.

[hack89]

12. Re-read your post

They don’t say the F35 is a waste of money just the second engine option.

[Buzz cook]

3. A list of Vermont based military contractors

https://www.governmentcontractswon.com/department/defense/vermont_counties.asp

State Vermont (VT)
Dollar Amount of Defense Contracts Awarded to Contractors in this State from 2000 to 2018 $10,264,659,394
Number of Defense Contracts Awarded to Contractors in this State from 2000 to 2018 26,980
Number of Defense Contractors in this State 821
Number of Counties in this State 14

I once showed this page to a Sanders supporter and asked which local contract Sanders had opposed. He's responce was it didn't matter because Bernie was pure.

I think this is going to be the base response from many Sanders supporters when his voting record is questioned.
Its also the response from the supporters of other candidates or variations on a theme. We have blind spots for the people we support.

I think you need more than a single fact to change minds, you need a narrative. A single instance can be justified or rationalized.

[Blue_true]

35. I had one Senator Sanders supporter claim that the F35 wasn't a Vermont

jobs program. It turns out that is is all about jobs, as two key contractors are based there and the planes for the air reserves would have a large economic impact.

The F35 is an instrument of war, but when you talk to a Senator Sanders supporter, he is the most pacifist candidate in history.

[ritapria]

4. Elizabeth supported Trump's Massive Defense Spending Bills

Until she ran for President .. From Politico : "Elizabeth Warren takes care of Defense Business" (February 13, 2015 )

[sheshe2]

7. Where is the link to the article?

You state she said something posted by Political and do not provide a link, just a date.

[Cha]

8. here you are Again.. trying to Distract.. Still

Not working and Not helping your candidate.

[TidalWave46]

13. What does that have to do with keeping these fat cats happy?

https://www.governmentcontractswon.com/department/defense/vermont_counties.asp

[SidDithers]

15. Whataboutism. Standard response...nt

Sid

[ehrnst]

19. From Politifact:

https://www.politifact.com/vermont/statements/2019/dec/20/bernie-sanders/bernie-sanders-wrong-twice-claim-about-defense-bud/

[ArtTownsend]

20. Yup.

[TomCADem]

34. Do You Deny That Bernie Was Supportive of the F-35?

For all of his rhetoric, Bernie was happy to push for military pork for Vermont just like he voted against the Brady bill and for immunity for gun makers.

[Blue_true]

36. At least she is open about it. Defense and Biotech are massive employers in her state. nt

[betsuni]

5. K&R

[James48]

6. You don't seem to get it.

The F-35 purchase has already been made. The decision was done years ago.

Vermont currently has F-16’s. They are being phased out and replaced with F-35’s.

If Vermont Air Guard doesn’t get them, someone else will. They require manpower to fly, maintain, operate. Those are national defense jobs which have been approved by Congress.

Either those jobs go to Vermont, and existing people in the Air Guard retain their jobs; or else the jobs go to another state, and hundreds in Vermont lose their jobs.

Bernie is correct in his decision to ask for the F-35 in Vermont.

[Cha]

9. Maybe you don't get it..

BURLINGTON, Vt.—Bernie Sanders’s support for a plan to base military jets in his home state has put him at odds with some progressives who otherwise approve of his platforms.

To put this into perspective, the Obama administration itself tried to cut or kill the F-35, yet you have Bernie Sanders of all people insisting that we buy more military hardware.

[James48]

11. You definitely don't get it.

Last edited Mon Jan 13, 2020, 03:49 PM - Edit history (1)

Bernie isn’t saying to buy more hardware. The hardware is already bought.

Bernie is simply saying- Hey- the hardware that is already bought, bring it to his locality, so that people who already have Fighter-jet related jobs, are able to maintain their jobs, rather than sending the hardware- and jobs-elsewhere.

That is not a contradiction in any form whatsoever.

[ehrnst]

21. So wanting Amazon jobs to come to your state is wrong, because Amazon, but

wanting to base military jets in one's home state is OK, because jobs.

[James48]

26. No- wanting Amazon

that already decided to put jobs in your general area, wanting them to put them in your state, because in your state you have and recognize Union labor, is ok- because if they go to another state, with no existing Union.

[ehrnst]

28. Right. Totally makes sense....COMPLETELY different...

[ehrnst]

30. Well, as long as it's not Amazon, anyway...

https://www.amazon.com/Bernie-Sanders/e/B01NAJEW2P?ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_3&qid=1578951143&sr=8-3

[Blue_true]

37. The jets have not been purchased. The purchases will stretch on for another 15 years.

So, very few of the planes have been "purchased".

[TexasTowelie]

10. K&R! nt

[ehrnst]

14. Profiting off the military industrial complex.

[ArtTownsend]

16. It seems a lot of people are scared of a Sanders nomination...or Presidency.

I understand, change can be uncomfortable...even if it’s positive change.

[ehrnst]

17. You mean "change" like profiting from the military industrial complex?

"Scared?"

I don't think that's really the right word. That would imply that the people who think that he's not really suitable think that he's got a chance of winning the election, let alone the primary.

I think that many Sanders supporters would like to think that it's "fear" that's behind lack of support for Senator Sanders. It's more comforting that the alternatives.

[ArtTownsend]

18. Sorry, but this thread is a bad-faith attack by supporters of Establishment Democrats

I seem to recall another Democratic primary candidate voting for the War in Iraq....hmmm...

[ehrnst]

22. Hmm... some candidates voted for military action in Iraq twice...

In 1998 Sanders voted in favor of the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998, which said: "It should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq and to promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime."

Later that same year, Sanders also backed a resolution that stated: "Congress reaffirms that it should be the policy of the United States to support efforts to remove the regime headed by Saddam Hussein from power in Iraq and to promote the emergence of a democratic government to replace that regime."

Sanders also voted for the 2001 Authorization Unilateral Military Force Against Terrorists (AUMF), which pretty much allowed Bush to wage war wherever he wanted.

Authorization for Use of Military Force - Authorizes the President to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons, in order to prevent any future acts of international terrorism against the United States by such nations, organizations, or persons.
States that this Act is intended to constitute specific statutory authorization within the meaning of the War Powers Resolution.

[ArtTownsend]

23. Yes, not good votes. But who has the better voting record overall?

That is a legitimate question that can be respectfully debated...

[ehrnst]

24. Goalpost moved....

But since we're talking voting records...

https://www.texasmonthly.com/the-daily-post/what-you-should-know-about-bernie-sanders-controversial-vote-for-a-project-that-would-have-brought-toxic-waste-to-sierra-blanca/

[ArtTownsend]

25. If you say so...

[ehrnst]

29. Sorry, it's not me - history says so. I see you have no response concerning that particular vote.

Completely understandable.

Paul Wellstone called the legislation "environmental racism."

How does any real progressive defend a vote for it after that? One would hope that one would acknowledge that it was a mistake.

Or at least not make make money off it.

[ehrnst]

33. Perhaps you need a history lesson in what progressive votes look like

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287420048

[Blue_true]

38. The thing that I like about Senator Sanders supporters is they go to

the mat for him, even after their arguments have been pummeled.

[Cha]

31. "Established" Dems have brought us Everything that's

Good about America.

No amount of your trying to insult with your buzzwords is going to change that.

the Majority of Moderates brought us the Midterm BLUE WAVE! That's why we have #45IMPEACHED NOW

[ehrnst]

32. ....

[Hortensis]

39. He supports because doing so keeps his extremely elite job.

Since he grabbed the congressional gold ring almost 30 years ago, his ideals have been set aside to do what he has to to get reelected. He doesn't live his claimed principles.

Instead, he's always done what all the others he denounces as massively corrupt do to continue as Senator Sanders, with limousines, cameras flashing, no standing in lines, and really great retirement bennies. He doesn't see himself that way, though. It's different when he does it.

Well, U.S. senator IS a really nice job and, in spite of things like this, he's still not even a fraction so corrupt as he claims all the Democrats who do as he does are.

However, it IS a job, but as a self-exiled independent, his "principles" have always allowed him to do far less work than his Democratic colleagues. The cost of that, and inability to be a leader among his colleagues, has always been great ineffectiveness and virtually no real achievement, no legacy.

Outside congress, of course, he leave a legacy for the history books: his role in 2016 as leader of one of the populist movements symptomatic of a bad period in American history.