Democratic Primaries
Related: About this forumIn 1987, Sanders said JFK made him nauseous.
Presidential hopeful Bernie Sanders has launched a new ad praising John Fitzgerald Kennedy on Monday, despite in the past he had very harsh words about the former US president, to the point of saying that he "nauseated" him.
America chose to go to the moon not because it was easy, but because it was hard, Kennedy argued in footage included in the 30-second clip, where Sanders states that the slain leader knew that the US gives its best before significant challenges and not small ones.
However, Sanders did not always seem so impressed with the leader's record. In an interview with a university newspaper a little over 30 years ago, on the contrary, the Democratic Vermont Senator even said that Kennedy's position about the Cuban Revolution appalled him.
"President Kennedy was elected while I was at the University of Chicago, that was 1960. I remember being physically nauseated by his speech and that doesn't happen very often. He debated Nixon on Cuba. And their hatred for the Cuban revolution, both of them, was so strong," Sanders said in a 1987 interview to Gadfly, a student newspaper at the University of Vermont.
The interview is reproduced in a 2015 BuzzFeed article that includes an image of the original paper's relevant pages.
"Kennedy was young and appealing and ostensibly liberal, but I think at that point, seeing through Kennedy, and what liberalism was, was probably a significant step for me to understand that conventional politics or liberalism was not what was relevant," the Democratic hopeful added.
https://www.jpost.com/American-Politics/In-1987-Sanders-said-JFK-made-him-nauseous-now-he-praises-him-in-new-ad-614335
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mr_lebowski
(33,643 posts)It's not entirely clear but it sounds like said 'speech' actually happened during his debate with Nixon, as they both bashed the Cuban Revolution in harsh terms.
I guess that's just splitting hairs though.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Gothmog
(145,321 posts)I can see trump using this info against sanders as an attack ad
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
booley
(3,855 posts)That Sanders didn't like how JFK handled the Cuban Nuke crisis? Thats the attack?
That will fly like a dead fish.
Most won't even remember the Cuban Missile Crisis. Probably because they weren't born yet. Maybe if they saw that X Men movie?
And those of us that do remember won't have a problem with what Sanders said since that almost destroyed us in a nuclear war over brinksmanship.
Seriously, Trump will get a lot more mileage over Biden's vote and later comments on Iraq.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Gothmog
(145,321 posts)This is a very easy quote to turn into an attack ad. trump's base hates communism and socialism and so this ad would be very effective
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
booley
(3,855 posts)Seriously, what would that attack look like?
Oh, Gods Sanders didn't want Nuclear war?! He was ahead of the curve on History?!! AGAIN?! The Monster!
How many think the Cuban Missile Crisis was a good thing? (Assuming they remember it at all)
Putting aside that most of Trumps base are unlikleyt obe big JFK fans, Trump's base doesn't know what communism nor socialism is. It is an attack used on every Democrat who has ever run since FDR. Remember when Obama was both a Communist and a Fascist at the same time? The socialism attack isn't based on reason so thinking reason would counter it is just.. silly
If however, we are worried about giving Trump an attack. Voters still remember the Iraq war. They still remember the bankruptcy bill. They still remember NAFTA. They still remember how Wal Street almost destroyed the economy. Those things are bit more relevant to peoples lives. They are probably thinking more about those things than an event that happened before many were born.
Seriously, it's not the 60s
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Gothmog
(145,321 posts)sanders has a ton of material in his history that will be easy to use in negative or attack ads. In the real world these ads work and work effectively. John Kerry got swift boated and lost to Bush.
sanders is a very weak general election candidate. trump would destroy sanders with ads on Fidel Castro, the old Soviet Union, Central American socialists who sanders supported and even now Maduro in Venezuela.
Russia was very successful in suppressing the African American vote last cycle with some really weak attacks on Clinton. Here Russia has a ton of great material to use to suppress the vote. sanders delegates booed John Lewis, Elijah Cummings, Stacy Abrams and other African American leaders. These stunts were planned in advance. I was at the National Convention I was warned about these stunts 20 to 30 minutes in advance by my whip. Russia would use the booing of these true civil rights leaders to suppress the vote of African American voters if sanders is the nominee
We cannot afford four more years of trump. If sanders is the nominee, trump will win 45+ states
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)Castro, long before had tried to ensure some type of good relationship with the U.S., but the Republicans and some Dems weren't having it. Especially the ex Cubans who hated Castro, and wanted U.S. help to invade Cuba to oust him. I don't suppose Trump would know anything about U.S. Cuban relations before or after Castro. I remember the Cuban Missile Crisis quite well, I was young but very much aware of the danger and threat.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Bernie is finally being vetted.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Response to Skittles (Reply #7)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Skittles
(153,169 posts)if something true about you is SMEARING, *WELL* then
better to get this crap out now than later
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Response to Skittles (Reply #11)
Name removed Message auto-removed
betsuni
(25,538 posts)LOL HILLARY CONSPIRACY
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Skittles
(153,169 posts)yes indeed
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Cha
(297,323 posts)It was bound to happen
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
RandySF
(58,911 posts)That's why I never pay attention to remarks like "Candidate (X) would have won" because there's no harsher spotlight than a presidential general election.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
BannonsLiver
(16,396 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)as so frequently unflattering that they start seeming like hit pieces, instead of attacking the messenger reporting documented facts, perhaps you should consider finding a candidate whose background doesn't distress so often. Otherwise, you're in for a pretty rough ride. We're not in 2015-16 any more.
Btw, when I seriously wondered if Sanders could replace Warren in my support, I did my homework up front by learning all I could about him. Same for others so that "revelations" about someone I'm supporting aren't able to surprise or distress me.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
YOHABLO
(7,358 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Last edited Sat Jan 18, 2020, 05:54 AM - Edit history (1)
literally years now, that many of those who passionately admire Sanders still do not know, or choose not to know, what HE believes, or even simple, well known details of his past.
We should be able to agree that doing our homework is informing ourselves of the truth about candidates. What every one of the trumpsters should have done but passionately refuse to. After all, we all spent one to two decades of our lives doing homework. We and they all know what that really is.
What's better, or at least longest documented than his lifelong, zealous commitment to communal ideology? It's not as if he kept it secret. He used to stand on street corners handing out his political screeds to all who would take them. And even after experience taught him to soft pedal his beliefs dramatically, he's still too passionate a believer not to proudly identify himself as a democratic socialist -- just waffles about what that is.
There's a peculiar refusal among many who admire him most to understand what he believes. That's actually intensely disrespectful of him, even if it is what he has learned to try for. Clarity and honesty don't move "the people," but obfuscation is working: socialism is really anything government provides that we want, we've been living socialism, it's schools and roads, as American as apple pie.
Not exactly. These misrepresentations are so absurd that they can only cause cool-eyed people to to focus on why. But the answer is the old one that some people find deliveries of charismatic political leaders transporting -- as long as nothing causes them to be alarmed about where. So those leaders tell them what they need to hear; and if information from others conflicts, those who are strongly drawn to them quickly learn to just not listen. We've all witnessed this in tens of millions on the right. But charismatic leaders and believers sure they alone have the answers, if not sure just what those are, are not just a conservative phenomenon.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
betsuni
(25,538 posts)Last edited Thu Jan 16, 2020, 05:27 AM - Edit history (1)
He has not changed his opinion since then. Didn't vote until he voted for himself.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
mahina
(17,669 posts)Saying JFK disgusted him While leaving out the same effect from Nixon overhypes and drama dances the 60 year old feeling.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,321 posts)There is a ton of great oppo out there that trump would be able to use against sanders. It would be easy to make this quote into a very effective attack ad
If sanders is the nominee, trump will win 45+ states
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to Gothmog (Reply #5)
Name removed Message auto-removed
2016 didn't exist.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ritapria
(1,812 posts)around 30 Times . Can anyone be supportive of such a policy ? We worked with the Mafia to try to unseat Castro . This anti- Castro obsession was the part of the bipartisan consensus of that era .No one questioned this obsession without facing banishment from the so called political mainstream ...Today , no one ( except Bernard) questions the apparent US role in removing Bolivian President Evo Morales from power in a military coup Morales lifted the poor from grinding poverty... He enfranchised the indigenous people ..But he was bad for Western business- and thusly had to go .As for Bernie. he is on the shit list of the Establishment . .Digging up the contents of a 2015 Buzzfeed article quoting what Bernie said about US Policy towards Cuba 33 years ago is about par for the course We knew this "Bernie is a Commie " stuff was coming .He has won the battle of issues...So let the process of demonization begin .. Don't be distracted .We need Universal Health care, and a dramatic reduction in the price we pay for pharmaceuticals ..We need to end The Endless Wars ..We need jobs that pay a living wage - at least 15 dollars an hour We need to double the amount of workers joining unions . They're going to try to demoralize us, so we, once again, vote for the status quo - and against our own economic self- interest ...That's Good for Big Business
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
BannonsLiver
(16,396 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)Backing democratic socialist dictators like Morales, Chavez/Maduro, and the Castros is political suicide.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)What was done to Cuba is what the US did to many other countries. Some can ignore history, but other countries will not do so.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Sloumeau
(2,657 posts)So, if I understand this correctly:
1. Kennedy's hatred for the Cuban revolution nauseated Sanders.
2. Sanders could "see through" Kennedy and what liberalism was.
3. Sanders decided that conventional politics or liberalism was not relevant.
Yeah, I am not sure how well this would play in a General Election campaign. Running a pro-Communist Revolution, anti-Democratic American Liberal Icon candidate might not be the wisest move that the Democratic Party would ever make. Also, putting Kennedy in a commercial when Kennedy nauseated Sanders might seem a bit hypocritical.
I've now seen Sanders and his fans compare Sanders to establishment Democrats like FDR and JFK, while other Sanders fans have said that Establishment Democrats are losers. It is all a bit confusing.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Response to Sloumeau (Reply #16)
RandySF This message was self-deleted by its author.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
peggysue2
(10,832 posts)Every wrong-headed, myopic, ideologically-driven stance the Senator from Vermont ever took will be exposed and exploited. Jack Kennedy made him nauseous. Castro, I guess, was just a great, misunderstood guy.
The opposition ads write themselves. And they will be brutal.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
guillaumeb
(42,641 posts)What happened to Cuba was an invasion by the US to overthrow the Government. Similar to what happened in Chile, and many other countries in the Americas.
The predictably toxic result of the Monroe Doctrine.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Eyeball_Kid
(7,432 posts)Critics are going fishing with a very long pole.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Cha
(297,323 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
boomer_wv
(673 posts)Bernie Sanders would make JFK pretty nauseous too.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
ritapria
(1,812 posts)From Business Insider " Biden worried in 1977 that Certain Desegregation Policies Would Cause his Children to Grow Up in a Racial Jungle "
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)If Joe is going to rely on the Corn Pop story from his past, then this is also highly relevant in deciding whether Joe should be our nominee!! We need a full vetting... what if this is just the "tip of the iceberg" as some have speculated?
Imagine how tRumpy will use this and other oppo research that's out there if Joe somehow does manage to become our nominee. Better to get all of Joe's past controversial views out in the open, now, BEFORE the votes are cast. Joe needs to be fully vetted, just as the corporate media has done to Bernie.
Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Bradshaw3
(7,522 posts)Every time someone brings up a Biden vote from 20 or 30 years ago like on busing or his vote on the Iraq war or comments from 10 years ago or even more recent we are told by Biden supporters that it it isn't relevant because it was so long ago. Now this about Bernie, taken out of context. So which is it? Ok for Bernie, but not Joe?
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
The Valley Below
(1,701 posts)of human rights were well known at the time. And ignoring the slam on JFK. What's more disturbing (and relevant) is Sanders antipathy towards "liberalism" as an ideology that he "saw through" and deemed irrelevant.
His clear rejection of liberalism (and our party--"I am not now, nor have I ever been, a liberal Democrat) makes me cringe every time he's called a "liberal" or "most liberal" in the press.
This statement makes his rejection of liberalism quite plain, and does so in his own words.
Read them.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Thank you!
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
kacekwl
(7,017 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
NYMinute
(3,256 posts)Even most republicans revere JFK. Democrats universally do.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Polybius
(15,437 posts)It was 33 years ago.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
David__77
(23,421 posts)The Cold War policies were terrible. Some progressive forces coming out of the New Deal coalition were opposed to that turn of affairs. Sanders means what he says and I like that.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
ehrnst
(32,640 posts)What is it that he means, exactly, taking into consideration the two points of view?
Does a need to appeal to Democrats now a part of why he has done a reversal of his veiw of JFK?
Certainly JFK hasn't changed since the 2015 Buzzfeed article came out.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
InAbLuEsTaTe
(24,122 posts)Bernie/Elizabeth or Elizabeth/Bernie 2020!!
Either way, they're stronger together & can't be bought!!
Jump on the Bernie Bandwagon & join the revolution!!
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
Gothmog
(145,321 posts)In the real world, trump would destroy a weak candidate like sanders. It would be really sad to see trump destroy sanders and I agree that sanders chance of being the nominee or being elected is nil
Link to tweet
The chances of Sanders actually becoming president, however, are also close to nil. I say this because in 2016 I got a glimpse of the Republican partys opposition research book on Sanders, which was so massive it had to be transported on a cart. The Newsweek reporter Kurt Eichenwald, who got to see some of its contents, declared that it was brutal. The Republicans would have torn [Sanders] apart.
According to Eichenwald, the book includes damning material such as the fact that Sanders was on unemployment until his mid-30s, that he co-sponsored a bill to ship Vermonts nuclear waste to Texas where it would be dumped in a poor Hispanic community, that he honeymooned in the Soviet Union, and that he appeared at a 1985 rally in Nicaragua at which Sandinista supporters chanted Here, there / the Yankee will die. And then theres Sanders fictitious essay in which he described a woman enjoying being raped by three men
After the Trump campaign and Fox News got through weaponizing this research, the usual conservative charges against Sanders that his domestic program would cost nearly $100tn over the next decade, that he would ban individual health insurance, send taxes into the stratosphere, and sympathize with terrorists and leftwing regimes would seem almost benign. The Republican campaign against any Democratic presidential candidate is guaranteed to be ugly, but against Sanders it would be gruesome. The result most likely would be a Democratic wipeout on the scale of Labours under Jeremy Corbyn.
Thats why Sanders is the preferred Democratic nominee of Trump and his aides. It explains otherwise puzzling stories such as Trump coming to Sanders defense against Warrens no-female-president claim, saying sexism is not his deal. And while living in Washington has made me cynical in some ways, I would not be in the least surprised if conservative dollars are swelling the coffers of Our Revolution, Sanders dark-money Super Pac which doesnt have to disclose its donors.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,321 posts)primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
Gothmog
(145,321 posts)Trump had a two foot thick book of oppo research on Sanders http://www.newsweek.com/myths-cost-democrats-presidential-election-521044
So what would have happened when Sanders hit a real opponent, someone who did not care about alienating the young college voters in his base? I have seen the opposition book assembled by Republicans for Sanders, and it was brutal. The Republicans would have torn him apart. And while Sanders supporters might delude themselves into believing that they could have defended him against all of this, there is a name for politicians who play defense all the time: losers....
The Republicans had at least four other damning Sanders videos (I dont know what they showed), and the opposition research folder was almost 2-feet thick. (The section calling him a communist with connections to Castro alone would have cost him Florida.) In other words, the belief that Sanders would have walked into the White House based on polls taken before anyone really attacked him is a delusion built on a scaffolding of political ignorance.
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden