What The Sanders vs. Warren Battle Is Really About

[Uncle Joe]

(snip)

Sanders is not wrong in pointing out that Warren’s populism — and make no mistake, it is that; she does her fair share of billionaire-bashing — has resonated with a different audience than his. In part, it’s because her packaging of populism is meant to extend an ideological hand to the establishment Democratic voters who cottoned to Clinton in 2016 but regretted, perhaps, their inability to see that the country was ravenous for system-busting talk. She scratches the itch of big ’ole change but understands that the Democratic Party is filled with people who are still comfortable within the system, even if they have intellectual critiques of it.

Sanders’s selling of populism is conscious of its place in the sweep of progressive history. In Iowa, he talked about how not so long ago, public education was seen as a radical idea and cited the aphorism, “It always seems impossible until it’s done,” to explain the mental block the country could overcome to accept Medicare for All.

On Saturday evening, Sanders held a rally in Davenport that opened with performances by a collegiate singer-songwriter — “This one is about my babysitter and how as you get older your relationships change” — and Rep. Rashida Tlaib of Michigan. Tlaib’s voice rose in emotional peaks and cracks as she spoke of her childhood in Detroit, which in her memory is perfumed with the rotten-egg smell of hydrogen sulfide. She bemoaned the building of “bougie” condos in her city. “We need somebody that’s courageous, that won’t sell us out,” she said. “I’m exhausted about the broken promises, these polished speeches — I don’t care if you said the same thing.” With Sanders, she said, “you see this person and he’s real.” It was as succinct an endorsement as a 2020 Democratic candidate could ask for; though, as we all well know by now, what’s “real” is ambiguous and mutable and very much according to one’s taste.

But of course, the crowd cheered; there was no higher praise.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-the-sanders-vs-warren-battle-is-really-about/

[lapfog_1]

1. throughout history, very few populists hae been good leaders

and they tend to have outsized egos.

[The Valley Below]

6. Look at the very bleak history of when populists have actually gained power around the world.

A very (very) ugly legacy indeed.

The antithesis of liberalism as a political philosophy in my estimation.

[Thekaspervote]

11. +1000

[Act_of_Reparation]

15. A curious proposition.

Populism isn't an end, it's a means. And while lots of authoritarians have used populism to appeal to the lower and middle classes, that does not imply that populism is and of itself an authoritarian system.

[The Valley Below]

16. Where has a populist gained power and not been an authoritarian or totalitarian?

Has that ever happened?

[Act_of_Reparation]

20. Here.

Populism is an electoral strategy employed in varying degrees by lots of different people. Both parties use populist messaging all the damn time.

[58Sunliner]

2. Disagree. It's about a male candidate disowning and denying what he said to a woman.

It's about his campaign surrogates using misleading memes and tropes to malign others and then claim ignorance as well as not taking responsibility for his campaign. It's classic passive-aggressive. It stinks.His behavior towards Steyer's overture after the debate was another classic passive-aggressive move.

[relayerbob]

3. THIS

[BuffaloJackalope]

12. THIS

[oasis]

18. +1,000,000

[betsuni]

25. Yes, passive-aggressive.

[TexasTowelie]

31. +1

[apcalc]

4. What I do know is that

Russian Trolls are here continually stirring this up. They want a rift, they want anger.

I encourage everyone to DROP IT.

Let’s get rid of Trump.

[Uncle Joe]

5. I viewed this article as evenhanded analysis of both candidates. n/t

[blm]

27. Lol. Hardly, UJ. It was heavily skewed

and blatantly so.

[Uncle Joe]

28. In what manner do you believe

it was "heavily skewed and blatantly so," blm?

[lapfog_1]

7. and Amy is my second choice to do just that!

go Amy!

[Scotch-Irish]

9. There are so many foreign trolls on DU these days, you can barely breathe.

They are really stirring this Bernie/Warren problem.

[ancianita]

8. I'm with what Samantha Bee said about this arguable fight:

"The things that are happening every day off that debate stage (with all the mass shootings, the attacks on reproductive rights, etc.) — these are way more terrifying than anything that happened during that debate.

If we make enemies of each other now, the fight won’t be about ‘if a woman can ever be president’ — it will be if ANYONE else will ever be president again."

[Sloumeau]

10. Good golly, that first sentence is terrible.

Folks, if you are not 100% sure how to use a semicolon, then please consider not using it at all. I, myself, avoid the semicolon like the plague. Most people could go their whole life without using one. There are only two real uses for a semicolon: 1) use it for a complicated list of items, and 2) use it to join two closely related independent clauses together. You could easily go your whole life and never have to use one. When in doubt, leave the semicolon out.

Also, when writing a parenthetical expression, such as when she writes "and make no mistake, it is that" in the middle of a sentence, one should put the same type of punctuation mark on both sides of the expression.

Even with better punctuation, her sentence is still pretty bad. It would be better as the following...

Sanders is not wrong in pointing out that Warren’s populism — and make no mistake, it is that — she does her fair share of billionaire-bashing — has resonated with a different audience than his.

or this...

Sanders is not wrong in pointing out that Warren’s populism (and make no mistake, it is that — she does her fair share of billionaire-bashing) has resonated with a different audience than his.

or this...

Sanders is not wrong in pointing out that Warren’s populism, and make no mistake, it is that, she does her fair share of billionaire-bashing, has resonated with a different audience than his.

This has been an episode of "Cleaning Up Atrocious Grammar" by TheGrammarNazi.

[The Valley Below]

17. I strongly prefer example #2.

[ehrnst]

24. I agree. (nt)

[58Sunliner]

32. NT

[Bummfuzzle]

13. This difference is Warrens is smart, well thought out plans.

[Uncle Joe]

14. "Thought" n/t

[ehrnst]

21. And actual, tangible progressive results like the Consumer Protection Bureau.

Not to mention the high regard of her peers, and her ability to work with people to get things accomplished:

Unlike most members of her class, Warren is a staple on the campaign trail, a frequent feature of headlines and talk shows, and the recipient of an avid campaign to draft her into the presidential campaign—regardless of how many of her bills have become law.

And for Warren, that was never the point. She didn't run for office to sign onto a slew of legislation naming post offices and making insignificant changes to U.S. policy. Her goal wasn't exactly to pass dozens of big bills either; she's too much of a realist for that, allies say.

Warren's real power lies in her outsized influence, not just for a freshman senator, but for virtually any elected official in Washington. Her pen may not have touched many pieces of legislation that made their way to Obama's desk since her election in 2012, but her fingerprints are all over them.

Warren would be a strong spokeswoman for the party in Congress or outside of it; she spurred creation of a federal agency—the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau— without the title of "senator" in front of her name. But allies say Warren's best tool is her seat at the committee table in the Senate. Through hearings on the Senate Banking Committee in particular, Warren's questioning and persistence has lead to rules changes at various federal agencies without needing to get legislation through a Republican-controlled Congress. Most notably, Warren successfully pushed the SEC to require banks to admit wrongdoing in negotiating many settlements.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/05/is-elizabeth-warren-an-effective-senator/449349/

[Happy Hoosier]

19. This just confirms for me....

... how much of Sanders' support is feel like a cult of personality to me.

So much of it seems to be about personal devotion to Sanders, and that won;t end well.

[ehrnst]

22. That's something Trump has cultivated for sure.

[ehrnst]

23. The latest from 538:

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/democratic-debate-january-poll/

In terms of raw debate grades — respondents graded candidates on a four-point scale (higher scores are better) — Warren got the highest average score, closely followed by Sanders, Buttigeg and Biden.

.........................................

Unsurprisingly, given her strong debate performance, Warren was also the biggest winner in terms of attracting potential voters. She gained a little over 3 points in the share of respondents who said they were considering voting for her. Buttigieg and Klobuchar also gained roughly 2 points each in potential support. Gains were pretty small for the other candidates, though — less than a point each for Biden and Sanders, and a little over 1 point for Steyer.

.......................................

We also asked likely Democratic primary voters how favorably they felt about each candidate both before and after the debate. And perhaps unsurprisingly, it was the less-well-known candidates who gained the most: Klobuchar and Steyer saw the largest jumps in net favorability (favorable rating minus unfavorable rating) — 5.8 points and 5 points, respectively. Buttigieg and Warren also did well on this metric, however, with Buttigieg picking up 4.7 points and Warren 3.9 points. Sanders and Biden’s net favorability, on the other hand, actually fell a bit — Biden’s dropped by 1.6 points, and Sanders took the biggest hit in this metric, falling by 3.6 points.

[saidsimplesimon]

26. "But of course, the crowd cheered; there was no higher praise."

"Beware the Ides of March. I came to bury Caesar, not to praise him (her)."

[ehrnst]

33. +10000

[getagrip_already]

29. did nobody read the whole article?

Cuz that was a very select set of quotes. The actual article praised warren on several points, and bashed bernie on others. Yet, the quotes above only seem to praise bernie.

It was actually a pretty balanced piece.

Definitely NOT the tome of the quotes posted above..

[Uncle Joe]

30. I pointed out the balance of the article on post #5. n/t

[ehrnst]

34. You can also edit the OP so that it accurately represents the article, & the statements on Sanders

rather than implying that it's taking a side.

[ehrnst]

35. Yep. You'd think it was the Intercept judging from what pertinent facts are omitted

in the name of promoting the Independen Jr. Senator from Vermont.