Joe Biden.. I have looked at the articles and pictures of Biden hugging people!

[Peacetrain]

and I believe Flores was uncomfortable..I know one of my best friends is like that.. does not like people hugging or touching her.. it creeps her out.. she does not even like shaking hands.. but this was not a sexual overture.. I have been hugged and kissed on top of the head.. ( a little short here) for reassurance by men and women.. does not bother me.. but that is me..

So to all the people who are wanting Biden to step down for this like Franken did.. you better shield up.. because if you support someone else.. there are going to be demands for them to step down because there is NO PERFECT PERSON! and if the primary opponents do not expose their flaws.. take it to the bank the republican oppo research have it ready to go..

[vlyons]

1. Touching someone on the shoulder is not "inappropriate."

We tap people on the shoulder to get their attention. If she felt uncomfortable, she should have said something. I'm sure Joe would have apologized and taken a step back. Joe is an old-fashioned grandfatherly kind of guy. Never in a million years would he touch a woman's breast or squeeze her butt. Certainly not kiss a woman full on the mouth.

[we can do it]

2. I agree.

[Merlot]

27. But "if she felt uncomfortable, she should have said something"

doesn't really work. For one thing, she was standing on a stage about to give a speech, not really time to turn around and interact. And secondly, Joe Biden was there working for democrats. It would just be difficult to turn around and say "cut it out" to someone of his stature.

My opinion is that feeing uncomfortable is a part of life, people make each other uncomfortable without meaning to. In her shoes I probably wouldn't have liked what he did either, but I wouldn't see it as the worst thing that could happen.

I've had a feeling this stuff was going to come up about Joe Biden.

[vlyons]

56. I completely disagree

Of course it works. She could have taken as much time as she wanted to turn around and quietly say, "Excuse me, but I don't like being touched. Please step back a bit." How long would that take? Less than 1 minute.

[Merlot]

70. Well of course she could say that. She could risk alienating the VP.

If she were perfect, she would know exactly what to say and when to say it. In fact, if we were all perfect, we would all know exactly what to say and how to say it. We'd save ourselves and each other a lot of frustration, anxiety and misunderstanding. Life would be so much better if we were all perfect and not subject to things like emotions.

[vlyons]

76. What makes you assume that he would be "alienated?"

If she's "afraid" to tell a guy that she doesn't like being touched, I would conclude that maybe she's not brave enough to get my vote for any office. I think that there's more than enough Rep men, who wouldn't think twice about bullying and trying to intimidate any Dem woman in any elected office. It seems to never end. I want to see brave strong women as my elected officials.

[pnwmom]

78. Exactly. He has this power over her because people like YOU might conclude

the wrong thing if they happen to see her reacting negatively to his "being Biden." People like YOU expect her to respond bravely. Or maybe not. Maybe they expect her to laugh it off.

And meanwhile, she's frozen, because that's what our bodies do when people suddenly find themselves in an alarming situation.

[LakeArenal]

75. Not even a second.

You turn and say, stop.

No please stop, not I don’t like touches,
No you are important so I won’t say anything

You don’t have to be mean. Just “stop”.

Say it.

I have done it. It works. Especially in a crowd.

[pnwmom]

77. You don't sound like someone who has ever been in a position like that.

She was nervously waiting to go onstage, and suddenly he's behind her, grabbing her by the shoulders and putting his face into her hair.

What do most women instantly do in that kind of situation?

FREEZE. Their bodies react with alarm as their minds try to figure out what is going on. Meanwhile, he's planting this kiss on her. Then its time for her to go on stage, and she goes.

[LakeArenal]

72. Of course it appears here.

Folks, not necessarily Democratically motivated posters want to divide us on the candidates. They are also on Pete,too.
Klobuchar is mean, Harris has some small crap in her past.

I for one would love Biden, Obama, Franken to flat out grab me and kiss me full on the lips. It would be a memory of a lifetime.

Same if Pelosi, Hillary, RBG grabbed me and kissed me.

If any of the above did, I’m sure it would be in front of cameras in an atmosphere of celebration and comraderie.

Quit letting folks lead us to eating our own.

[Peacetrain]

74. Good Post!!

[liberalmuse]

53. I agree.

Jesus, if touching someone on the shoulder is going to get someone accused of being a creeper, most of us are done. Games up, shoulder toucher! Obama touches shoulders and backs. I just don’t know anymore. In the meantime, people are being sexually assaulted and rape kits pile up, untested. The human race is mad.

[Tipperary]

82. He did not just touch her on the shoulder.

Interesting how many posters are leaving that part out.

[LongtimeAZDem]

83. If you believe her. I don't.

[Cha]

3. So there's a picture of

Biden and Florez, Peacetrain?

[Peacetrain]

5. No no Cha.. of Biden hugging people

He is a hugger..that is no denying... I better change that in the headline.. it does look like I am saying that..Thanks!! Flores described it in one article I read.. Mediate I think..that he touched her on the shoulder.. reading another article.. they were waiting in line to go on stage.. I have literally been in that exact position.. standing with people to go on stage to make a speech.. and been hugged for reassurance and kissed by acquaintances and friends on the head..

[Cha]

9. Mahalo, Peacetrain!.. I just read this.. seems

like a pretty good description of Biden.. What do you think?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=42857

[Peacetrain]

10. Oh yeah... that is exactly my feelings too..

gotta go over there and rec. that post

[Cha]

11. Hug and a peck!

[DURHAM D]

7. Hi Cha,

Have you been to youtube and put "Biden children" in the search box? I am afraid that these videos will be circulated over and over again if he gets in.

They are creepy and I just don't want to deal with it for the next year and a half. Biden should retire from political life with dignity, he has earned it.

[GemDigger]

13. They are there but how many of them have been edited to look the worst?

I am not agreeing or disagreeing, I am just saying beware of trolls, Russians, Jacob Wohls, Lara Loomers, alex jones fans who are really good at making things look exactly like they want them to look.

[oldsoftie]

31. And its only going to get worse with the advent of "Deepfakes" coming on the scene.

The ability to place someones face on another body in a video.
Google "Jennifer Buscemi" and you'll see what i mean

[GemDigger]

39. Exactly that!

[stonecutter357]

4. K&R

[Bleacher Creature]

6. There's an easy solution to not nominating someone with a history of making women uncomfortable.

It's called "nominate a woman."

[Peacetrain]

8. Actually my second choice is Elizabeth Warren..

My husband went to see her,and I will catch her next time she is in town.. he is so impressed with her knowledge base.. Warren is an asset that whatever Democratic administration comes up next, hers or Joes, or any of the other primary people.. one of them will be the next President if we do not blow it on kneecapping our people.. and she is totally one of the best

[Demsrule86]

16. I like EW. but she is not going to win a general. We need three states to

stop Trump...PA,WI and MI. She will be portrayed as a socialist. 18 should show folks the path to victory is by running a moderate. We must stop Trump.

[oldsoftie]

33. I predict you'll catch hell for this statement, but i totally agree with you.

[Demsrule86]

34. Yeah I will and thanks.

[Kurt V.]

38. Didn't 18 show that women can win lots of elections?

[Demsrule86]

42. In congressional districts. That is not statewide... so no.

Women are accepted in Congress but as president , I have my doubts,

[Demsrule86]

14. No Bernie supporters will not get away with this. Biden also supported her

opponent...this reeks.

[Demsrule86]

17. Do you think any woman can get Elected? I have doubts and not sure it is

Worth the risk of losing, I am a woman and want to see a woman president but Trump must go. That is my only priority.

[bigtree]

24. can you imagine a more vulnerable opponent than a president openly conspiring against America?

...if not now, when?

[Demsrule86]

44. You think of it as a patriot does so do I...but I think he

has a good chance. He has an incumbent's advantage. He only has to pick off enough votes to win PA,MI AND WI. The choice of candidate must be one who can stop him in those states.

[Celerity]

20. or a gay man! lolol

[Bleacher Creature]

45. Absolutely!!!

I go back and forth between Harris, Warren, and Buttigieg so often I really need to switch my preference to "Undecided."

[treestar]

81. Each of which already has right wing attacks

easy not to nominate someone who made a claim about her heritage that everyone makes fun of. See how easy that is?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

12. It doesn't have to be sexual to make someone uncomfortable.

It's a well-known fact that many people don't like to be touched, for a wide variety of reasons. You say it does not bother you, yet you know it bothers other people and creeps them out.

Expecting people to respect others by not touching them affectionately without consent is not expecting them to be perfect. No one is asking Biden to "step down" -- he holds no office. But with the greater awareness around interpersonal relationships -- especially those between colleagues -- his behavior needs a reckoning.

[Demsrule86]

15. Yes it does. And I have seen Biden work a room fist hand and I say this

Person is full of it, so now merely making someone 'uncomfortable' is disqualifying. We will lose in 20 if this shit continues. And women who do this make it harder for those who truly face the real thing.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

18. When you say "this shit," do you mean women talking about their lived experiences about men

touching them in unwanted ways? When you say "the real thing," are you saying that discomfort with physical touch without overt sexual overtones isn't real?

If a woman has faced "the real thing," might it affect how she feels about unsolicited nonsexual touch from other people? If we don't know what a person has experienced, what would be the best way to interact with them in a professional or collegiate atmosphere?

[Demsrule86]

21. She is a Sanders supporter and this is the same old same old. We need to put a stop to this,

Now. Or Trump wins. I don't believe her shitty story . And as victim of sexual assault which required hospitalization, I despise women who tell these lies. They make it hard to get people to believe my (and others)account of both sexual harassment and sexual assault.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

26. Do you not believe her story simply because of who she has supported in the past? Do you not

believe that she felt uncomfortable? Do you not believe that men who make women feel uncomfortable should get a little scrutiny?

[Demsrule86]

30. That is correct and her story sucks too...sounds made up to me.

Also, she was not supported by Biden during her run. I resent like hell as a survivor her story which I dont believe (my opinion).

[WhiskeyGrinder]

36. Thanks for sticking with my questions.

[Demsrule86]

40. If I failed to make my point- let me point out how often this has been used

by some against us. At some point we have to stop or our candidates will be picked off one by one, and we lose 20.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

48. No, I get it, and we disagree.

It happens.

[Demsrule86]

59. Fair enough!

[MelissaB]

19. k&R!

I knew this would be coming with Joe... The Republicans have been using pics/memes for years with "creepy" Joe. Fuck that.

[Demsrule86]

23. That only works in a primary if people allow the GOP to screw with us...not

In a general against a 'p####you grabber.

[oldsoftie]

35. Trump cannot mention ANYTHING Biden has done, because Trump has done SO MUCH worse.

Of course, his minions can

[Demsrule86]

37. Exactly. This is a Sanders supporter trying to get rid of Biden.

[robbedvoter]

22. Make you a deal: Bring Franken back and Joe can run!

Otherwise, it stinks. And Gillibrand needs to be asked at every opportunity.

[SFnomad]

25. Franken didn't resign because of Gillibrand ... Franken resigned because of Franken

I'm getting tired of hearing so many people hang this around her as if she was the reason, as if she hadn't said anything, that Franken would still be around ... he wouldn't. DOZENS of people, numerous Democratic Presidential Candidates called for his resignation. To continue to make Gillibrand the boogeyman for all of this is just weak.

[tonedevil]

54. Even if you think...

it isn't fair Senator Gillibrand is the face of the push Al Franken out of the Senate movement. I know that a majority of the Democrats in the Senate made the same call. It would seem like they should get some of the questions and the vitriol, but it didn't work out like that.
It is ridiculous to pretend that Senator Franken had any choice in the matter his colleagues pushed him out and they were cowardly to do so. Unfortunately for Senator Gillibrand she is the only one who is remembered for it.

[SFnomad]

57. Re: Unfortunately for Senator Gillibrand she is the only one who is remembered for it.

That's a joke. Many others are remembered for it. Many bring up the fact that dozens of Democrats called for his resignation and numerous Presidential candidates did too. But the mob around here (and "real progressives" in general) have convenient excuses why those other people are not going to pay for it. They're angry and they want their pound of flesh and they're going to take it out on Gillibrand, even if she doesn't deserve the bulk of it. In a way, this mob is treating her no differently than they're crying about how Franken was treated.

When there were only a couple of accusations, I thought Franken could make it through ... then there were 5 .... 6 .... 8 accusers. Anyone with any commons sense knew that he was toast at that point. Who knows how many more accusers there would have been if he hadn't resigned, because nobody does know. Maybe it would have been zero ... but maybe not.

[tonedevil]

60. There are several Senators...

who are running for the Democratic Presidential nomination that also called for Senator Franken to step down. I have not heard Senator Harris, Senator Booker, Senator Warren, nor Senator Sanders asked once about their role in pushing Senator Franken out of the Senate. For Senator Gillibrand it is a standard topic. Losing Senator Franken was a dark day for the Democratic party and really the entire US. It really should be something all the Senators who pushed him out have to answer for, but at this point it is only Senator Gillibrand.

[SFnomad]

63. Excuses, excuses, excuses ...

But I have to say, this one is unique and I've never heard anyone blame the focus on Gillibrand being the people asking the questions before.

[tonedevil]

64. You don't think it is significant...

that she is asked about the Franken "event" while none of the other Senators who did the same as her get asked? Do you think it is helping her in her bid to become President?

[SFnomad]

65. Do you think the others should be asked?

Do you think it should be asked why she is the only one being asked?
Why is she talking the fall for it?
Why hasn't Franken cleared his name from the majority of the accusations? And don't try to tell me he has ... because he hasn't.

The focus on Senator Gillibrand to the exclusion of anyone else is a steaming pile. But that's what people around here want ... so nobody is going to question it.

[tonedevil]

67. I would have thought it obvious...

as long as she is getting asked I think the others should as well. In fact I'd like to hear what they have to say perhaps not all are still as committed to the idea of having forced Senator Franken out. It doesn't matter because I am not a reporter and I don't get to ask the questions. I don't know why she has taken the fall, but she has and that doesn't look to be changing. If the focus on Senator Gillibrand was only happening here she might have a chance at the nomination. She doesn't seem to be getting much traction and I think her perceived role is a big part of that.

[Luvapottamus]

28. This has legs with republicans

I converse with trumpies on other fora, and there are a lot more of these touchy-feely pictures, so it's not going to go away.

[Demsrule86]

32. Let them try...with rapist Trump.

[Jarqui]

47. Has legs only because that's what they'll need to run away from the pussy grabber

The real key is we need a good candidate to beat any Republican because there's still a decent chance the GOP or circumstances will end Trump.

I'm partial to Mayor Pete right now, realizing he has challenges, but would heartily support any of them: Joe, Bernie, Beto, Kamala, Liz, etc

Like the top post, I'm one of those people who do not like to be touched. If Biden touched me or whispered in my ear or kissed the top of my head, I wouldn't like it yet like everyone else who have done that to me, I wouldn't say a word. Because the vast majority who do that, don't mean anything bad by it. It's a gesture of affection that I would rather not receive (kind of violates my space) but I'd rather tolerate it than hurt their feelings. Some folks might disagree with that - too bad for them. That's the way I am.

[mr_lebowski]

79. My thoughts are very similar ...

And I'll tell you what, Trump and the GOP are probably laughing their asses off at us as we speak, going 'Man, this is SO EASY, we don't even have to do anything or spend a DIME, and Democrats will eat their own, and take out the guy we're the MOST afraid of come 2020! This is AWESOME!'

[LibDemAlways]

29. There are YouTube videos of Biden

Last edited Sun Mar 31, 2019, 12:28 AM - Edit history (1)

touching young girls at Congressional swearing in ceremonies and, in a few, the girls are clearly uncomfortable. I am willing to give him every benefit of the doubt that these gestures are entirely innocent, but those videos would be a huge distraction in a campaign. The teflon orange shitstain can get away with anything. A Democrat, any Democrat, cannot.

[CTyankee]

46. Esp. up against the Trump team. They will make it out to be a huge stain on Biden and the press

will lap it up. It will be their defense against Trump's sexist shit. It could kill our chances.

Let's nominate a woman, fer god's sake!

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

51. This is a fair point... at least worth considering. Perhaps, it's better to go with someone safe.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[aeromanKC]

41. There IS a difference!!!

Bush rubbed Merkel's shoulder's. It creeped her out, he didn't do it again. It has been common practice in the past thought as appropriate behavior. We are learning as a society to learn from the past and grow while realizing that NO this has not been appropriate behavior all along. Meanwhile, Trump brags about grabbing woman by the pussy and brags about it. "They just let you do it!!" He fucking brags about it meanwhile, Biden has stepped back and acknowledged his poor behavior and realizes that his past behavior was not appropriate.

Biden is a great candidate. Is he perfect, No. Has he he been perfect, No. BUT, he would be an outstanding President!! (Who by the way hasn't or doesn't brag and is proud about committing sex assault like the GOP's Trump!!)

There IS a difference!!

[democratisphere]

43. There is enough proof throughout this site to vindicate Joe Biden from

the scurrilous attacks on his integrity and intentions with hugging and innocent other forms of support, comfort, reassurance, empathy and sympathy. To be attacking such an iconic Democrat will only lead to our ruination in the 2020 elections. Let's not have a 2016 repeat of the kind of attacks and snubbing that HRC had to endure.

[IndianaDave]

71. Joe is just a very friendly, affectionate guy

I'm kind of surprised to see all the consternation over this. I believe he's innocently trying to show support, or help people to overcome nervousness. But some people always jump to the worst conclusions. It's certainly true that if he notices that someone is uncomfortable, he should back off. But I don't doubt his intentions. He's a really good guy, and I like and respect him. I hope this nonsense passes quickly.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

49. Have at it... I know at least Bernie can stand up to that kind of scrutiny.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[liberalmuse]

50. Biden does that all the time.

I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, but he’s a serial hugger and one of the more affectionate human beings, while others prefer their space. I hope people can use some common sense and look at context and intent. I don’t believe it is Biden’s intent to molest anyone. Nor was it Franken’s.

Funny, Trump hugs, ogles and slobbers all over women and claims to “grab ‘em by the pussy”, but it’s our guys who are being thrown out and besmirched. Trump’s intent is to humiliate, degrade, molest and get his rocks off.

[CTyankee]

52. I don't believe it either but, like Franken, there will be a shitstorm and we'll stand the chance of

losing, not a senator, but a presidency and be stuck again with Trump.

I just don't think we should take a chance...

[Mario Luigi]

55. Longtime Clinton advisor Nick Merrill responds to Buttigieg's criticism of Hillary Clinton

Link to tweet

[EveHammond13]

58. if the polls show Biden can beat trump, then it's Biden for me. trump raped his own wife.

[Mario Luigi]

61. And touches his own daughter

as pictures have shown.

[Otto Lidenbrock]

84. And wanted to abort the other

As he told Howard Stern

[Demsrule86]

62. This is completely meaninless

And Flores is on the board of our revolution. What a coincidence (sarcasm).

[George II]

66. I wonder if Obama will file a formal complaint? Is he "sniffing his hair" here?

%3Fw%3D435&w=450&c=sc&poi=face&q=85

[BlueFlorida]

68. Someone saw Biden beating a certain candidate

in every poll and Biden hasn't even announced yet.

This whole thing is a dirty trick in my opinion orchestrated by Consigliere Sirota.

[flamingdem]

69. Sadly I agree

Wish the dems could refrain from starting a war within the party.

Our enemy = GOP

[Oppaloopa]

73. I like people who call me hon.

[Lazy Daisy]

80. Thank you

For me, and I suspect many others, it's not about Joe it's about how we as democrats are reacting to this.

I read Joe's response a bit ago and was quite happy with it. He too acknowledges his affectionate ways may be uncomfortable for some people and he's listening. He himself said he may be surprised at what he hears. Kudos Joe kudos!

We need to support him in his statement if we as democrats are going to support women, not make personal attacks on his accuser or continue to support intrusive actions.

The responses here on the other hand.......