Is it still possible to either defend Joe Biden or point out inconsistencies in Ms Flores account

[Atticus]

of how she was allegedly touched without being classified as just another insensitive sexist pig?

Is ANY touching under ANY circumstances that was not previously consented to now a "MeToo!" moment?

Is it relevant at all that no objection or complaint was made for several years after the alleged incident?

Is an "invasion of personal space" the equivalent of a sexual assault?

I realize this post will likely draw criticism, but aren't these just some of the legitimate questions raised by the Flores "accusation"?

[Agschmid]

1. Yes it's possible.

[bigtree]

2. lol

...just jump in there with whatever you've got and see how you come out (or not).

God knows what you're planning to add to the cacophony.

I'll be looking for something nice to post about my candidate while you folks play in the mud (if you give a damn about Biden, you'll just let it sizzle out and not fan the flames)

[matt819]

3. Also

Last edited Mon Apr 1, 2019, 12:29 PM - Edit history (1)

Why go public as your first step? Why not reach out to Biden privately. Discuss what happened and how you felt at the time and how you feel now. It’s not as if he has a reputation as an abuser. He’s a decent man. You may not have agreed with his politics at every step of the way. And he does sometimes put his foot in his mouth. But, like Al Franken, he is a good person. So, talk to Biden, air your concerns, give him a chance to learn, grow, apologize.

There is s huge difference between the likes of Kavanaugh and men like Biden and Franken.

[Tipperary]

12. Frankenstein?

[Kentonio]

35. Sounds like an autocorrect

My phone does stuff like that all the time.

[BlueFlorida]

13. That is not what Sirota ordered her to do

Perhaps someone higher up than Sirota was also involved.

[Perrenial Voter]

53. Any evidence for this assertion, or is it just a smear? n/t

[BlueFlorida]

56. Circumstantial evidence

I have posted the facts elsewhere. Please look them up under my posts.

[Autumn]

67. Why? It's easier for you to find your posts and link to them. You make an assertion

you should be able to back them up. It's the last tab on the top that says My Posts

Easy peasy.

[BlueFlorida]

68. Here you go

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=43529

[democratisphere]

4. Joe Biden did nothing wrong but will likely adopt a self preservation policy

of giving women a wide berth while no longer looking directly at them.
Flores has changed and embellished her story with each new interview and imo no longer has any credibility.

[tiredtoo]

5. As of this date i am still undecided

i am not enthusiastic about either Biden or Sanders.
This attack from Ms Flores is stupid at best and not good for any Democrat.

[onetexan]

6. Please, cut this crap

The woman is twisting her words left & right.just google what she's now saying (MSNBC). Joe's response is absolutely credible. This smear woman has got to go. Stop giving her a platofrm.

[BlueFlorida]

14. She ended up harming Bernie

There will always be suspicion that this was well-orchestrated by Sirota. How many others were involved including any higher ups shall remain a speculation.

[True Blue American]

7. After seeing the picture

Of Flores hand on Joe’s shoulder and the pictures of her posing happliy after with Joe the subject is over for me.

[WheelWalker]

55. This

[katmondoo]

8. I am totally sick of Ms Flores

Get over it Ms Flores, I have had enough of your whining

[katmondoo]

9. Usually I side with the women, not with this one

[WeekiWater]

10. I think it's possible to all of the above in a thoughtful manner.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=44185

[Demsrule86]

11. I think so. Her story reeks.

[OregonBlue]

17. I might have agreed with you until I saw the pictures of her

With her hands on his shoulders happily hanging on him and looking over his shoulder. She's not being honest.

[George II]

19. Plus, between Friday and yesterday morning the story changed, possibly when she realized...

...that he's a lot taller than her. First it was "the back of my head", which would have been obvious to everyone, he would have had to stoop down to do that. So yesterday it was "the top of my head".

[ehrnst]

23. Ever heard of "False equivalence?"

Such hyperbole doesn't lend one's statements credibility.

[Tipperary]

24. Interesting. You just joined this morning and already scolding duers?

People are not “treating” her any way at all. It is a discussion board. Posters are discussing the issue. Biden is well-known and well-liked. He might well be our best bet to beat rump.

I have said I do not find her credible. That is not “treating” her any specific way. Funny how she never mentioned this incident until just this week. Funny how she is a Sanders’ supporter. Lots of red flags with this woman.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

31. Beyond disgusting... the worst criticism of Flores is her waiting to come forward with her charges.

I mean, REALLY?! With that argument, why not just declare the #MeToo movement officially dead!! Anyone remember Dr. Christine Blasey Ford?!?! That sure went down the memory hole!!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Kentonio]

36. Apparently for some it's now fine to demonize women who speak out

If they happen to be speaking out against a popular liberal.

I’m getting tired of the double standards.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

37. You said it!! And, not only are they demonizing Flores, but they're also doing the same to Bernie...

claiming he must have put her up to this because she once supported him & this could help Bernie in his primary fight against Joe. Well, apparently, we've learned that Flores attended a recent Beto rally... so, are we now to assume BETO is the one behind this so-called "political hit job"?! hmmmm.... yes, of course, it would be ridiculous to assume that, but, using their logic, the argument could be made. Oh wait, that logic applies only to Bernie... nevermind, what was I thinkin?!?!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[treestar]

40. The 1980s are different from 2016

At this point, it is reasonable to expect immediate reaction. If he was not outpolling Bernie would she have said anything?

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

46. Riiiight...Joe has such a HUGE lead over Bernie! You do know Flores attended a recent Beto rally...

so by your logic, Joe's lead over Beto is COMMANDING, making HIM the prime motivator and suspect. I know that sounds ridiculous... it's MEANT to be. So, why doesn't that apply to Bernie?! Oh, sorry, I forgot, how silly of me... he's BERNIE!! Nevermind!!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[treestar]

48. Since you are sure Bernie will be the nominee

What of when the Right Wing Attack Machines starts? How will poor Bernie deal with that? You know they are going to find the worst and Faux and the MSM will harp on it all.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

49. That's right, don't respond... it's easy to see why you would want to change the subject.

Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[treestar]

65. It is you who didn't respond

How will Bernie deal with the dirt once he is the nominee?

[BannonsLiver]

64. Are you frustrated because it's not working?

[Trenzalore]

41. It smells

She isn't alleging any kind of sexual harassment, she was on the board of a Bernie group, and photos taken later from the same rally show her touching him.

What was done to Franken was a crime and what was attempted here should be a crime.

[brooklynite]

16. You were doing fine until you put "accusation" in airquotes...

As for me, I don't believe for a minute that Joe Biden intended to "assert" his masculine privilege; he's a touchy-feely sort of person, and broadly speaking, it isn't an issue.

Where I draw the line is with those asserting that BECAUSE she supports Bernie Sanders or was a member of Our Revolution (neither of which I care much for), it's reasonable to assume that she OVERTLY LIED about what happened and how she felt about it.

[LongtimeAZDem]

27. I don't see her associations as proof that she lied, but as proof that it is a political attack.

I see her changing story, the fact that others who were there have come forward to question it, the pictures of her interaction with Biden at the event, and her attempt to use the false Stephanie Carter narrative as evidence that she overtly lied.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

47. Ding, ding, ding!! We have a winner!! But, hey, where Bernie is somehow involved...

there has to be something nefarious going on, right? No, wrong! I'm with you on this one brooklynite... why deep-six the whole #MeToo modern movement just because whatever Joe did - innocent (I hope) or malicious - he did it to someone who had a connection to Bernie. That seems a bit extreme if you ask me.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[Atticus]

54. Perhaps the quote Mark's are saying something I did not intend. All I meant by them was that

despite the salacious implications being thrown around on (mostly) social media, Ms Flores did not accuse Mr. Biden of sexual assault or "groping" or anything of that nature. Indeed, she has specifically termed his actions "not sexual".

I did not intend to imply that her accusation was not genuine; only that it was not as widely portrayed. I regret my lack of clarity.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

18. If being affectionate is the worst they can come up

with...he must be a pretty perfect candidate. The more we entertain this garbage the happy MF45 is. Playing right into his hands. And coming from our side is helping them.

[MineralMan]

20. Sure it's possible. Go right ahead.

I just did in another thread.

[Peace06]

22. Changing story

Now she has changed her story that it is not sexual harassment, but invasion of personal space. I think it is complete BS. How many times has everyone's personal space been invaded? And like the commentor said, why NOW? Ridiculous.

[samnsara]

25. hell yes!!!!!!

...even more so than ever

[Brainstormy]

28. Of course it is.

and your questions are legitimate. And I HATE the way repugs have weaponized the ME TOO movement against us!

[jalan48]

29. I think it should be but the story is taking on a life of its own. I believe Biden will stay out of

the race because of it.

[LongtimeAZDem]

30. That would be a obscene travesty, and I hope that you are wrong.

[jalan48]

32. Biden seems like too nice a guy to put his family through this stuff.

[LongtimeAZDem]

33. His family, like most of us here, knows better

[jalan48]

34. I agree, it feels a lot like the Franken take down and we know what Franken decided to do.

I hope Biden chooses to run but I doubt he will at this point.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

50. If Joe doesn't run, that would make him seem guilty of something. So, I hope he does publicly

splain himself to people's satisfaction and that he then DOES decide to run.


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[jalan48]

52. He may not want to go through all the muck. As VP he was able to ride Obama's coattails.

[Otto Lidenbrock]

38. Yes I believe so as well

He is a family man and he was all set to go knowing Trump would stoop to new lows, but Trump has his own dirty baggage. To be smeared by people on his own wing is different. Joe has always spoken positively on Bernie while respectfully disagreeing on certain means of policy but the Bernie supporters will not reciprocate with showing respect to our former Vice President.

Bernie supporters digging out barely visible links from the 70s to attack Joe but ignoring it was Joe who went after Reagan's SOS on going easy on the oppressive Apartheid regime in South Africa. Reagan's buddy Thatcher thought of Mandela as a terrorist. Reagan vetoed sanctions, the senate overturned - the only time in the 20th century a presidential veto was overturned. Joe was involved in that.

[jalan48]

39. I haven't seen or heard about the links from the early 70's. Is this something recent?

[Otto Lidenbrock]

42. A right wing blog found an old tape from 1974 to look through

And Joe was quoted saying in his first senate race he "prostituted himself to big donors" but was rejected. So he got elected on small contributions instead. He also denounced the experience and necessity of big money in politics.

Bernie supporters jumped on it because a week or two ago there were reports Joe was not getting assurances of donors from his last two campaigns giving to him for 2020.

https://freebeacon.com/politics/biden-i-tried-to-prostitute-myself-to-big-donors-during-first-senate-run/

[jalan48]

43. Thanks for the info. I'm sure the Republicans will be digging up as much as they can once our

nominee is chosen.

[Otto Lidenbrock]

44. yep but going back to 1974 when

Richard Nixon was still President, the Vietnam War was still ongoing and Donald Trump was discriminating against African-Americans is a bit of a reach!

[jalan48]

45. Its politics unfortunately.

[InAbLuEsTaTe]

51. That would be a bad look... Joe needs to fight to air his side of the story and then let the

chips fall where they may. He shouldn't let himself be Frankened, that's for sure!!


Bernie & Elizabeth 2020!!!
Welcome to the revolution!!!

[WheelWalker]

58. In this context Joseph Robinette Biden is a soldier.

Duty calls and he will answer the call.

[Honeycombe8]

57. I think people have made up their minds on this.

I thought this was a cheap "me, too" trick as soon as I found out she worked for Bernie Sanders in a key position, either past or present, and this was such a non-event, and it happened five years ago.

That's my decision on this.

As another poster said, this is more about "you, too" than "me, too." A repeat of what had been done to Franken was being attempted, but didn't work.

The accuser doesn't have personal space, since there's a pic with Bernie Sanders leaning in over her head but behind her, with both of his hands folded on her shoulders.

[tonedevil]

60. Having a picture with someone's...

hands on your shoulder surrenders all right to personal space?

[Honeycombe8]

61. One of her complaints was that Biden "invaded her personal space."

It seems it was a personal space because it wasn't Bernie. That's my take on that.

This is really such a transparent attempt to try to knock Biden out. So transparent.

[tonedevil]

62. She hasn't commented one way or the other...

so we don't have anything to go on, but she might be uncomfortable with the Senator Sanders situation and just be going along to get along. Assuming she was comfortable with Senator Sanders and was uncomfortable with VP Biden under similar circumstances that is still legitimately her call. I

[Honeycombe8]

66. ??? She's made the talk show rounds. Catch up. nt

[Nevermypresident]

59. Yes, after reviewing all info and pix available, I will defend Joe Biden.

[onecaliberal]

63. She was very clearly coached. Her answers to questions are not her own.