So about that Operation Chaos...

[ibegurpard]

Can we finally put to bed the fiction that opposite party sympathizers can swing a primary? Unless you want to suggest it was key to a Biden win...
I'm glad he did as well as he did because it will blunt Bloomberg momentum. I have lots of problems with Biden but will have no problem voting for AND advocating for him in a GE.

[handmade34]

1. they could have

handed Bernie delegates... 3-4% less and he would get no delegates

[tarheelsunc]

3. This. Just because Biden dominated doesn't mean Bernie didn't receive help. Eom

[ibegurpard]

4. Yeah OK

[Cha]

19. Yeah..

Link to tweet

[MontanaMama]

28. Jeezus. What an asshole.

At least keep it a secret dumbass...

[Cha]

32. John in SC.. Proudly Stupid. I read their registration

cut off was the end of January... so maybe many didn't get the call in time?

MontanaMama!

[MontanaMama]

40. Apparently not.

Probably thought he looked like some American hero doing what he did and then advertising it. What a great night we had tonight Cha! It’s nice to breathe deeply once in a while...

[Baked Potato]

49. Operation "Desperate Dickhead"

[Cha]

50. lol

trump must be furious his pleas in SC didn't work out so well for him.

Biden scares him so much he got himself Impeached

[Hermit-The-Prog]

53. Looks like a Sweaty Teddy Cruz wannabe.

[NurseJackie]

5. This ... Yes.

[thesquanderer]

36. For the past three months, Sanders has almost never polled below 15%. Usually over 20.

So it is unlikely that Trump voters put him over the edge.

Poll results at: https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2020/president/sc/south_carolina_democratic_presidential_primary-6824.html#polls

[ibegurpard]

39. Its just people who were ready to pounce with that excuse

If Sanders did well and can't admit they were wrong. These crossover schemes have never worked and never will.

[OhZone]

2. I wouldn't be surprised if it cost him -

a point or two. If it had been really close, it would have mattered.

Oh well.

[DanTex]

6. It should have been obvious given that it has never made any difference before.

And given that, I doubt that any new evidence is going change anyone's mind. It's not really an evidence-based belief.

[ibegurpard]

8. Nope

Completely anecdotal and complete garbage and now you actually have people claiming it's the only reason he got any traction at all. Bernie hate is a powerful drug.
Congrats to Biden. He needed a big win.

[ehrnst]

37. Because you say so?

[Gothmog]

7. Without trump voters, sanders would not have broken 15%

Link to tweet

?s=20

[paleotn]

9. Republicans have been batting that around for years...

They were all about Howard Dean in 2004. It's tough getting Americans to go the polls and vote for someone who appeals to them. Much less to coordinating enough votes to cause some kind of primary mischief. It's silly. Personally, I don't think Republicans are smart enough to pull it off.

[ibegurpard]

12. Yup its always anecdotal

And never makes a difference

[LizBeth]

52. They do not have a primary to vote in 2020. Not the same as the past.

[paleotn]

55. Doesn't matter.

Americans vote in ridiculously low numbers compared to other western democracies. We struggle to get people to the polls to vote FOR something. Some complex scheme they don't fully understand isn't going to get them off their asses, away from their TeeVees, and out to the polls. Certainly not enough to swing Dem primaries.

[AGeddy]

10. 8% of the vote in SC was by Republicans.

Without it, Bernie would've been under the 15% threshold.

So it mattered, just not to the ultimate winner.

[ibegurpard]

14. Yeah OK

[Gravitycollapse]

16. But is that 8% disproportionate to previous elections?

Or is there generally a little bit of cross over?

[Celerity]

17. link for 8% claim, and link where it shows who they voted for

MSNBC had a lot of Repugs interviewed who said they hated Trump and voted for Biden or Steyer.

[Gravitycollapse]

22. I saw the 6-8% Republican stat in exit polling on MSNBC.

[Mariana]

42. Are you sure it didn't say 6-8% Conservative?

We've seen that number in the exit polls, for example:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287599915

Conservative does not equal Republican.

[Gravitycollapse]

44. It was definitely Republican.

It showed party affiliation (Democratic, Independent, Republican).

[AGeddy]

25. MSNBC's exit polling

Can't find the link right now, it was on their broadcast.


As for who they voted for.... well, they told us who they were voting for. If even 4% of that 8% was for Sanders, it pulled him over the 15% threshold.

[Celerity]

29. then find me the link, it must be out there, and you made the claim, so back it up

And not every Rethug will have voted Bernie, that is just ludicrous, as one of Biden's big targets is to pull in Rethugs who hate Trump.

[AGeddy]

31. I will find the link. It was on TV broadcast, hopefully MSNBC provides a link.

As for the other point... of course they *ALL* didn't vote for Sanders. But if half of them did, and that's reasonable to assume, then it was enough to push Bernie over 15%.

[lapucelle]

11. So then it's not a fiction that Operation Chaos can impact a primary. N/T

[ibegurpard]

13. Of course it is

It never has and it never will

[greyl]

20. "Impact" and "swing" have different meanings. nt

[lapucelle]

35. I am aware of what both words mean.

Definition of swing

1. : to cause to move vigorously through a wide arc or circle swing an ax

2. : to cause to sway to and fro

3. : to cause to face or move in another direction

If Operation Chaos was a factor in BS going from zero delegates to some delegates, then Operation Chaos caused BS's delegate result to move in another direction.

[greyl]

45. I thought so, wasn't replying to you. ;) nt

[lapucelle]

21. No it isn't. If it swung BS from the zero delegates to some delegates in SC, then it had an impact.

[ibegurpard]

24. Just stop

This "argument" is grasping at straws

[AGeddy]

27. Why is basic math "grasping at straws"?

Bernie got 19%

8% of the vote was by registered Republicans

if half of that vote went to Sanders, then it is the reason he cleared the magical 15% threshold.



As Andrew Yang would say: MATH

[LakeArenal]

34. You started it!!! Greez

[lapucelle]

38. No it isn't. And don't tell me what to do. N/T

[lees1975]

15. The Democratic turnout was too big to have much, if any effect on the outcome.

Look, it's really not going to matter much who the Democrats nominate. They'll be elected. Why would Republicans turn out to support a guy who has a better chance of beating Trump than Biden does? And how would you know? Surely Republicans who hate the media and don't trust the polls wouldn't take a risk like that and wind up accidentally voting for a guy who will beat Trump in November

[ibegurpard]

23. Some of the candidates worry me

Some more than others. I think we can win with Biden but people will to get over their butthurt if they didnt support him and the core supporters need to stop with the insults and the bullshit that they don't need other constituencies. Republicans will be united and will turn out. And defectors won't be enough to swing it for him. We need the center AND the left.

[Cha]

18. No.. we're Not "putting that to bed"..

Link to tweet

[oasis]

30. Convention Super delegates will more than erase the impact of GOP Chaos.

So we win in spite of their efforts.

[tblue37]

33. It can have an impact:

Link to tweet

[Skya Rhen]

41. The Republicans helped Bernie get as high as 19% - he should have gotten much lower than that.

[ibegurpard]

43. Yeah OK

Not enough that Biden got the blowout he needed... gotta cast aspersions on any support for Bernie at all. Some of you are absolutely determined to burn bridges aren't you?

[Blue_true]

48. It seems that you are the person wanting to burn bridges.

I believe Operation Chaos helped Bernie get some delegates instead of zero. It also reduced the size of Biden's win.

[Blue_true]

46. Look likeOperation Chaos got Bernie 8 delegate tonight,

instead of him getting shut out. It may keep Biden from taking the overall delegate lead.

[NCProgressive]

47. Biden would have had a bigger win without operation chaos

[lunasun]

51. Yes . I hope this puts Bloomberg to bed now. Looks like it'll be Bernie vs Biden not also along

with someone who dropped in to the primaries like Mary Poppins with a handbag full of cash
unless something else happens on ST

[customerserviceguy]

54. I have a feeling

that Operation Chaos would have worked better in states outside the South.