Michael Moore: South Carolina is not reflective of the United States

[RandySF]

Link to tweet

?s=20

[RockRaven]

1. Neither is Iowa. Nor New Hampshire. So...... where does that leave you?

[fleabiscuit]

89. That's a good freaking question. nt

[HarlanPepper]

2. Mike's mask came off tonight.

And I'm not talking about his anti-Dem mask either.

[robbedvoter]

35. Nah. This is a repeat of 2016! There was no mask!

[King4ADay]

66. I'm curious, what do you mean by it's a repeat of 2016?

In 2016 he was one of the very few people who predicted that Trump would win and thought that Hillary's campaign should be paying much more attention to some of the upper Mid-western states that ended up being pretty important to Trump's eventual victory - Jill Stein notwithstanding.

What did he do wrong?

[fleabiscuit]

90. He's trying to make it happen again... nt

[Tarheel_Dem]

3. But it is certainly "reflective" of the Democratic Party. I despise Michael Moore.

[Cha]

4. Michael Moore just dismissed the entire state of South Carolina

Link to tweet

[AGeddy]

5. Michael Moore is Bernie Sanders' Kelly Ann Conway

[Zoonart]

53. HAHAHAH!

PERFECT.

[2naSalit]

76. +1

[fleabiscuit]

91. Ha! LOL.

[videohead5]

6. I've heard in person that

Michael Moore is an asshole. I hate it because he has my last name.

[Sloumeau]

26. In his case, Moore really is less. :) nt

[Popcorn Samurai]

47. As someone who knows Michael

He is not someone I would call an asshole but he is certainly very opinionated and very willing to share that opinion. And he really loves Bernie.

[renate]

80. I just wanted to say that it's pretty cool that you know him!

I don't agree with what he's been saying, personally, because I think that Bernie as a general-election candidate would be absolutely disastrous, but I appreciate the opportunity to learn a little more about why he's been saying it, and to learn that it's not because he's an asshole.

I think he's as sincere in his beliefs as Bernie is, which in another year would be great and even admirable, but we don't have the luxury of taking any unnecessary chances right now.

Anyway, thanks for the inside scoop!

[King4ADay]

50. My wife worked on the film he did about Hillary just before

the election in 2016 and reported just the opposite.

[marble falls]

63. Funny how that works, New Hampsire is "America" and South Carolina isn't.

[King4ADay]

67. Not sure how that relates to what I posted, but on his podcast this morning he said that

none of these early states are particularly representative of America.

They only represent small slivers of the electorate, but until many more states weigh in and a fuller picture emerges, the early states are not a great gauge of a candidates' support.

Hope that helps.

[marble falls]

68. None of the early states are "America". How does that work?

[King4ADay]

69. I wouldn't know as I never said that.

.

[marble falls]

71. This is exactly what you said ...

"none of these early states are particularly representative of America."

[King4ADay]

72. Looks like you missed the all important qualifier.

"...particularly representative of..."

But that's OK.

[marble falls]

73. You're raining on your own parade. Wouldn't you think that "American" consists of being ...

"particularly representative of" being American?

So what is it: Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada, South Carolina are "particularly representative of" of being American or not while they are or are not American?

You've totally amazed me with your logic.

[King4ADay]

74. If you mean the demographics and concerns of only the Democratic electorates

in those states, then no they are not representative of 'America', they are a tiny sliver of it.

California alone is far, far more 'representative of America' than those four states combined.

But, to go more slowly so you can follow and perhaps understand:

Iowa. And. New Hampshire. And. Nevada. And. South Carolina. Are. Part. Of. America.

[marble falls]

75. Whaaat ....

"no they are not representative of 'America', they are a tiny sliver of it" Thats a howler.


Then you are not representative because are an even tinier sliver of it. Unless you're a Californian.

"California alone is far, far more 'representative of America' than those four states combined. ." Well, hell's bells - lets just have the "American" election in California

[King4ADay]

78. Yes, that was exactly my point.

BTW, Marble Falls is a beautiful part of Texas.

[marble falls]

82. How's Michigan?

[King4ADay]

85. It's a great place, but I wouldn't drink the water.

Also, I’d really like to see the Red Wings have more success.

[FreepFryer]

7. United States: Michael Moore is not reflective of the United States

Or reflective in general, for that matter.

[progressoid]

8. He's not wrong.

[brush]

10. And I suppose nearly all-white Iowa and NH are? Please!

[RhodeIslandOne]

13. It doesn't matter....

SC never went for Obama in the General Election. Why?

Iowa and NH did. Both times. Why?

[brush]

14. This is 2020, not 2008. Check who won them in 2016.

You must know if SC was 1st Biden would have the big lead in polls, funding and delegates.

WTF?

[RhodeIslandOne]

17. South Carolina will be no help in the general election, I just think you should know.

They fucking love Trump and anyone else with an R. No matter what DEMOCRATS did for the party in the primaries, SC is still a solid red state that loves to vote against their own interest. They didn't support Joe when he was the VP and they won't this time either.

And New Hampshire voted for Hillary in the general in 2016, WTF indeed.

[brush]

19. Expand your vision. SC already helped us by boosting Biden so well...

that he now has a good shot at getting to the GE.

God!

[RhodeIslandOne]

20. I get all that.

They still suck generally and will probably be calling Biden a commie pinko when their lawd and savior Orange Tush tells them to while their lovely Senator carries water for his secret crush in the Senate. Wait'll Orange Cancer dumps Pence for Nimrod Haley.

So no, I certainly do not consider SC "a representative state" beyond last Saturday.

[brush]

21. All I care about SC is their Dem primary and Jaime Harrison maybe...

beating Graham, which I know is a longshot but I donate to him anyway.

[StarfishSaver]

45. That makes no sense whatever

How Democrats vote in a primary completely unrelated to whether a state is "reflective" of the country as a whole.

The fact that a candidate sins a Democratic primary in a blue or purple state says absolutely nothing about whether said candidate can win a majority of voters in that state in a general election. Moore's argument is just stupid.

[JustAnotherGen]

57. Moore's arguments

Normally are . . . stupid. I've had it with him.

[TwilightZone]

49. This is a primary, not a general election.

What happens in the GE is irrelevant. In the primary process, all delegates count, even those from states that you don't like and summarily dismiss.

This argument has always held an undercurrent of bigotry, though I don't think that's your intent.

[Recursion]

23. The only states that really "look like America" demographically are MI and IL

Unfortunately both of them are too big (geographically and population-wise) to be good first primaries.

[progressoid]

84. No, I didn't say that.

It's almost like all 50 states are different or something.

[Cha]

15. Did Moore come out on the tv and Go.. Iowa & NH

are not reflective of the United States?

No? Well his doing it now only means one thing.. that if the roles were reversed.. 64% to 14%.. then we would hear nothing about South Carolina not being "reflective" of the USA.

I'm sure the POC love hearing this from Michael moore.

[progressoid]

86. It's not unlike so many DU pundits saying that IA and NH didn't represent America.

[Cha]

88. We're talking about Moore here and you didn't

answer my question.

[Meadowoak]

28. I think what Michael Moore was trying to say is, the black vote in SC is not the same as the

Black vote in most other parts of the country. SC is very very conservative compared to most other parts of the country. That said SC isn't exactly the best indicator of how the rest of the country will vote. He is right.

[Rilgin]

29. Democrats in South Carolina are also older and more conservative and religions than in other states.

Its not too hard to understand that none of Iowa NH and South Carolina are really good states. Nevada is close as it is really diverse and is a state that is trending towards being a Democratic state. But the basic point that somehow South Carolina democratic voters are representative is false. Even within Black people, there are great differences between those living in South Carolina and Detroit or Oakland. It is not hard to understand if you actually are looking for truth rather than an attack point.

[StarfishSaver]

46. What does that have to do with anything?

How Democrats vote in a Democratic primary in any state tells us absolutely nothing about how a candidate would fare in that state in a general election.

Moore is trying to compare apples and oranges and, in the process, is revealing a mindset that would be better kept under wraps.

[pampango]

83. Neither are Iowa, New Hampshire and Nevada but added to South Carolina you get

a pretty good approximation of the US. The first two are predominantly white, Nevada has more Hispanics than the US in general and South Carolina has more African Americans than the country as a whole.

While all 4 states are fairly small, they are diverse when taken together.

[dalton99a]

9. Truly disgusting.

[Historic NY]

11. His fellow team mates..

Last edited Tue Mar 3, 2020, 03:58 AM - Edit history (1)

Jill Stein, Susan Sarandon, nothing but blah blah blah..........

[dawg day]

12. It is representative of the Dem voters--

Major city. Major Black vote.

[Bev54]

16. I am growing very weary

of Michael Moore, he is trying his best to stay relevant but he is becoming very annoying.

[brush]

18. Is this Naderite ever for a true Democrat? He often took shots at Obama.

[Zambero]

22. None of the other 49 are either

Does Michael Moore have a particular "bellwether" state in mind?

[Recursion]

24. IL has almost exactly the demographics of the US as a whole

And very close to the US's urban/suburban/rural mix.

Unfortunately it's too big and too expensive to be a first primary state.

[Awsi Dooger]

25. That's a great point regarding Illinois

Off the top of my head I can't think of another state that mirrors the nation so well from a demographic standpoint. There are a few differences but mostly nitpicking a few percent.

It has far fewer conservatives than the norm so it's not a swing state but from a primary standpoint it seemingly would be an ideal test.

[Celerity]

42. Here are the states in order that most mirror the makeup of the US

Ironically, Moore, to a point s correct about SC, and IA is actually closer to the US as a whole than SC is, but NH is not, although from a purely racial/ethnic standpoint, SC is closest, but still not close to the top.

Moore is still an asshole though, and a unrepentant Dem hater/basher.

https://wallethub.com/edu/electorate-representation-index/18190/

Overall Rank

Electorate Representation Index

State

Sociodemographic’ Rank

‘Economy’ Rank

‘Education’ Rank

‘Religion’ Rank

‘Public Opinion’ Rank


1 94.80% Illinois 1 1 2 5 5
2 93.71% Florida 13 10 5 1 2
3 93.37% Michigan 22 20 13 1 1
4 92.35% Arizona 9 6 10 7 12
5 92.08% Ohio 31 8 20 3 13
6 91.88% Pennsylvania 24 2 46 6 3
7 91.88% Virginia 2 31 18 12 4
8 91.61% Delaware 7 12 8 8 15
9 90.51% North Carolina 5 5 1 33 7
10 90.46% Indiana 21 23 16 4 24
11 90.36% Missouri 25 7 7 15 19
12 90.23% Wisconsin 34 25 19 8 9
13 89.79% Texas 38 3 17 16 17
14 89.50% Minnesota 30 24 26 22 6
15 89.37% Colorado 8 21 40 25 10
16 89.23% Kansas 18 16 11 20 25
17 89.05% Iowa 39 34 32 14 8
18 89.04% New Mexico 42 42 9 10 11
19 88.70% Nebraska 29 32 12 17 27
20 88.58% Georgia 26 4 3 40 14
21 88.50% Nevada 20 36 34 24 16
22 88.38% Maryland 14 49 35 11 23
23 88.13% New Jersey 6 33 30 27 20
24 88.00% Rhode Island 12 11 4 32 38
25 87.86% Washington 10 14 42 30 21
26 87.76% New York 4 26 15 31 31
27 87.72% Connecticut 3 29 23 29 34
28 87.06% Oregon 27 15 36 35 18
29 86.81% South Carolina 19 9 6 37 33
30 86.60% California 43 17 31 26 22
31 86.43% Oklahoma 17 22 21 36 30
32 86.15% South Dakota 40 37 22 18 40
33 86.06% Idaho 33 28 38 28 36
34 85.75% Montana 46 44 33 13 39
35 84.95% North Dakota 47 40 29 19 42
36 84.44% Kentucky 32 18 37 38 41
37 84.40% Hawaii 50 47 14 21 26
38 83.97% Louisiana 28 35 43 41 29
39 83.92% Alaska 35 50 27 34 28
40 83.68% Tennessee 16 13 25 43 43
41 83.38% Wyoming 37 48 44 23 49
42 83.02% Arkansas 11 39 41 42 44
43 81.97% New Hampshire 41 38 28 45 35
44 81.79% Maine 48 30 39 44 32
45 80.70% Alabama 23 19 24 47 47
46 80.19% Massachusetts 15 43 48 46 46
47 79.94% West Virginia 44 46 50 39 45
48 78.32% Utah 45 41 49 48 37
49 77.69% Mississippi 36 45 47 50 48
50 77.12% Vermont 49 27 45 49 50


Strictly off racial/ethnic demographics in terms of mirroring the US

The top 10 are

1 Illinois
2 Virginia
3 Connecticut
4 New York
5 North Carolina
6 New Jersey
7 Delaware
8 Colorado
9 Arizona
10 Washington

[Zeus69]

43. Haha Vermont #50

[Rilgin]

31. i would agree with that.

Iowa, NH and South Carolina are clearly not representative of the Democratic Party throughout the Country. There really is no reason we can not have a state like Illinois as a bellweather of a candidates support.

[honest.abe]

27. More reflective than NH or IA.

Moore is an idiot.

[IluvPitties]

30. Moore's angry at black voters, it seems.

[Enter Username Here]

32. Michael Moore doesn't speak for me. nt.

[Gothmog]

33. Moore is a racist idiot

I erased The Beat from DVR because I was warned that this fool would be on. I have no use for Moore. Moore is never right on any issue

[treestar]

34. It is a bit more so than the first three states to go

For all the argument that "momentum" comes from winning Iowa, now it seems bad that there is some from the 4th state to vote. I guess only the first 3 matter. Why is the cutoff there?

[robbedvoter]

36. Did people forget what MM - and Sanders said last election? Confederate vote

, low information, "I won't lose here, you are smart - to Minnesota" Nothing new here.

[MissMillie]

37. Well, yesterday I saw a clip of Biden

very proud of his win in SC (he should be), saying that SC was the heart of the Democratic Party.

Since when?


It's all spin. SC is an early primary and he won it. Good for him--I certainly won't take it away from him.

But it's spin. I can name quite a few other states that are more solid for the Democratic Party than SC.

[NurseJackie]

38. I think he's a little bit racist.

[PunkinPi]

65. This!

Mike reeally knows how to build a winning coalition with the base of the party.

[beachbumbob]

39. lol, and Iowa and NH are?? Moore is such a tool and always backstabbing

the democratic party and mainstream democrats. He help with giving the presidency to George Bush in 2000 with his support of Ralph Nader and constant bashing of Al Gore, he did the same in 2016 enabling trump to win.

If I never hear another word from that guy I would be very happy

[hlthe2b]

40. Michael Moore had his day and I appreciated him. Now, he's lost it.

His ideals may well remain, but he just is in that cycle that comes when one cannot see the forest for the trees.

[Kahuna7]

41. I heard that and I was pissed! Edited: a video link is attached.

a rascist statement like that slide without flinching.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/03/02/michael_moore_biden_endorsements_an_attempt_to_stop_bernies_momentum_sc_not_representative_of_us.html?fbclid=IwAR0ReXKXuevu-7Q4yTm64tUOxzxTt-OyDFgyt1NeIOEWD73XExNKDYY7kgU

[bottomofthehill]

44. Old fat white dude from Flint.

[MineralMan]

48. Neither are you, Mikey!

[PubliusEnigma]

51. Michael Moore and Bernie Sanders are not representative of the United States.

[AkFemDem]

52. I don't care what this old has-been thinks- same guy...

Who has been telling us for several years now this is all pointless anyway because Trumps getting re-elected. 🙄 Shit your pie hole Mike and stop trying to be relevant. Bush isn’t president anymore and you haven’t had anything meaningful to add since then.

[Codeine]

54. He should shower between television appearances.

He always looks like he needs to spend a bit more time with some body wash and a dollop of dandruff shampoo.

[JustAnotherGen]

55. I'll never watch another one of his movies

Problem solved for me. If black folks aren't reflective of America - then I guess he doesn't want our money.

Easy peasy. Piece of cake. Fuck that guy.

[randr]

56. The pulse Michael pretends to have his finger on

died a long time ago. Give it up Mike and go back to doing what you do well. And pay more attention.

[tblue37]

58. Does he think Iowa & New Hampshire are? nt

[King4ADay]

59. While it's certainly reflective of the Democratic Party,

it's not reflective of Wisconsin, Ohio, Michigan and Pennsylvania - the states we absolutely must win to win the Presidency.

SC will go red in the general regardless of how well we do there or who wins the state in our primary - this whole exercise is about removing Trump from office, not how a Democratic candidate does in the SC primary.

Seems like we should be focusing on an electoral college strategy and how to win it - and not arguing about stuff like this.

[COLGATE4]

60. Neither is Michael Moore.

[AGeddy]

61. Michael Moore is not reflective of the human race

A man worth $60 million is telling 150,000 black voters in SC that they are the billionaire class.

[Happy Hoosier]

62. Moore, like Sanders, believes the fantasy of...

... the convertible White Working Class.

He needs to learn more about the Southern Strategy.

As long as the GOP bangs the drum of immigration (which Bernies has too), racism, homophobia, fake patriotism, and fake religion, we will lose that demo.

[Tom Rinaldo]

64. It isn't. Nor is Iowa or New Hampshire. It isn't dissin' anyone to say the truth.

But South Carolina is still an important part of America and it's votes count, even more so than Iowa and New Hampshire because a lot more people live in South Carolina than in NH and Iowa combined.

Why is it perfectly acceptable to point out that a Democratic electorate that is 90%+ white in one state is not representative, but it isn't acceptable to point our that a Democratic electorate that is 60% Black in a different state is not representative?

I get how important it is to have SC weigh in very early in the primary process to counter the skewed returns from virtually all white states, but none of the three are "representative". Maybe some state like Maryland or New York would come closer to being "representative".

[SiliconValley_Dem]

70. Hahah. Let's see what he says about Virginia and Texas after tonight

To name just a couple.

[True Blue American]

77. That is when I hit the remote off button on

Ari Melber last night.

[underpants]

79. My team lost so I don't like that game anymore

[HarlanPepper]

81. I drink his Sprite flavored tears.

[scrabblequeen40]

87. Michael Moore: Not reflective of the electorate

He's been wrong so many times, he's no longer relevant.