Joe has to debate Bernie for his, and our, own good. AFTER that we likely can turn the page.

[Tom Rinaldo]

This will happen on March 15th, less than two weeks away. The Arizona Primary is just two days after that. It isn't a long time to wait to see if it's time to start the unity dance. But more important that the timing is the debate itself. Folks, we already no the next smear against Biden coming out of Trump world, I'm not revealing anything here that isn't already politically self evident and running wild on "the Internets". We already know their latest game plan. Trump and his minions have already started to say that Biden is "well past his prime", except that they use language more derogatory than that.

I've watched Joe Biden on a debate stage one on one against Paul Ryan 8 years ago and Joe destroyed Byan. Biden is an experienced debater. I also remember the times Biden, on the campaign trail, challenged people to "a push up contest" to vividly make the point that he's robust for his age. Let America watch Joe Biden stand toe to toe for over 90 minutes in a debate with a worthy adversary like Bernie Sanders and he will demolish the latest whisper campaign against him once and for all. There is no hiding any lack of mental agility during a long one on one debate and most of the nation will be watching. Biden doesn't have to "win", he just has to show up and perform credibly and that will be that, end of story, end of smear. Assuming that happens, and that is what I assume will happen, Biden should then win Arizona easily and become our unity candidate.

[we can do it]

1. We've all heard BS's same answers to every question how many times now?

[nolabear]

6. That's okay. We should hear it again in that setting.

They both need to be seen one on one in a setting where they can be who they are and take the time to answer. I look forward to it.

[LizBeth]

9. An hour and half of the same answers. Over and over and over.

[ChubbyStar]

97. Yes joe does tend to do that, thanks for pointing it out.

[NurseJackie]

11. Every answer morphs back to his stump speech.

He'll evade and dodge and never answer directly. Or he'll "answer" an imaginary question that he wished he had been asked in the first place... again... with recycled stump speech memorized talking points. He comes across better on radio when people aren't distracted by the excessive and exaggerated gesticulations, but this is 2020, not 1920.

[zackymilly]

20. Can we stop calling Bernie 'BS'? He may be our candidate. nt

[we can do it]

22. Not going to happen.

[zackymilly]

23. I know, I know, lol nt

[we can do it]

40. 😹

[jrthin]

30. Candidate or not, his initials are BS.

[Act_of_Reparation]

24. Yes, but we've never heard Joe tell that story...

...about the time he and his best friend James Madison used Chester A. Arthur's Presidential Time Machine to travel to 1705 and then got in a fight with Blackbeard at the Jamestown Public Pool when Joe said the pirate's long hair made him look like Betty Paige.

[FoxNewsSucks]

32. Corn Pop to the rescue!!

[totodeinhere]

26. We have heard Joe's answers as well. But the DNC scheduled that debate and I think it would not

be a very good look to cancel it now. (Unless Bernie drops out which won't happen.)

[Demsrule86]

83. Biden may win Washington and Michigan and if that happens, I would say no to any debate...Joe is the

candidate at this point...and I for one don't want to see him attacked By Bernie.

[totodeinhere]

94. I don't want to see either candidate attacked although Bernie sure gets a lot of attacks on DU.

They need to train all of their fire on Trump. But as long as the nomination is not mathematically clinched then the debate should go on. The party owes that to the voters in future primary states. And I think it would be better for Joe in the long run to participate in debates as long as the nomination has not been officially settled. He does not want to be seen as ducking a debate with Sanders.

[still_one]

105. The only way i would say not to debate is if any candidate has 1991 delegates before the next debate

[George II]

2. Joe doesn't "HAVE" to do anything.

[totodeinhere]

28. Of course he doesn't have to but it would not be a good look if he were to bow out now

with less than half of the delegates selected yet. And I'm sure he knows that and he will not bow out. Myself, I would love to see them debate each other one on one.

[Just_Vote_Dem]

37. No kidding

The desperation is palpable

[elleng]

3. V.P. Biden certainly has positive attributes,

which we've seen over the years. He also still has stutter, which appears to come to the fore occasionally.

[OnDoutside]

4. Lol ! Top marks for effort though, Tom.

[msongs]

7. the winner seldom debates the loser, no reason to do so nt

[totodeinhere]

31. Less than half of the delegates have been selected. We need to allow the voters in upcoming

primary states to have their say as well. The debate was already scheduled so it should go forward.

[msongs]

49. you're correct, the already long ago scheduled event should occur. no need to create another nt

[tblue37]

56. But with just 2 of them, maybe cut it down to an hour or 90 minutes. nt

Last edited Fri Mar 6, 2020, 05:35 PM - Edit history (1)

[totodeinhere]

63. Tweaking the debate format to take into account that there are only two major candidates left

could be something to be considered. But it should not be cancelled.

[Demsrule86]

84. I say no...if Biden has an insurmountable lead ...no debate period...Sanders will to after him and

what is the point...we don't want our candidate savaged on the right and the left.

[ChubbyStar]

102. Maybe joe will bring up the thing

You know the thing! Good luck to both candidates.

[hlthe2b]

5. Debate is March 15 AFTER the next series of primaries (March 10), including Michigan...

That could have some big implications...

[hedda_foil]

36. But BEFORE Illinois, Florida, Arizona and Ohio the next week.

[hlthe2b]

39. True. But a major loss in Michigan for Sanders will have some major implcations.

He may win it. I'm just saying the reporting on his banking on MI (even cancelling his rallies in MS and the South) puts the big scope on it.

[hedda_foil]

62. He's not going to drop out after Michigan except in your dreams.

And I'm most likely voting for your candidate.

[hlthe2b]

72. Honestly, I'm among those who has tried hard to be even-handed. So to assume I "dream"

of Sanders dropping out after Michigan is not fair. I dislike some on his campaign staff (Nina Turner) but I respect Sanders, like many of his positions, and have not derided him. Please don't assume otherwise.

I merely point out that the MSM coverage is focusing on MI as a major outcome.

[hedda_foil]

76. I apologize, hitthe2b. You didn't deserve the swipe.

Forgive me? Please?

[hlthe2b]

77. Of course!

[hedda_foil]

82. Thank you.

I don't often pop off and you certainly didn't deserve it.

[Demsrule86]

85. It doesn't matter to me what he does...no debate if Biden has an insurmountable lead so Sanders

can take shots at him for no purpose...NO.

[highplainsdem]

8. Tom, I don't for one second believe that the Sanders supporters now smearing Biden will stop even if

Biden wins that debate.

Right now many of their posts on Twitter are hard to distinguish from RW smears of Biden, and I expect that to continue until Sanders concedes the primary race, and probably well after.

Sanders himself should be speaking out against the attacks on Biden.

[NCProgressive]

16. They are all one group - organized to defeat the Democratic party.

It was a big mistake to let Sanders run as a Democrat.

He reminds me of an AirBnB guest who lives in a home, dirties the dishwasher, leaves dishes in the sink, trash on the floor, a broken microwave, dog poo on the carpet, steals silverware .... and then leaves a bad review about how terrible the accommodations were.

[emmaverybo]

41. Excellent analogy.

[Demsrule86]

10. I think it is over with before March 15th at which point no point to help the right by

having a debate where Sanders revs up his supporters against Biden by attacking Biden who by then will have an insurmountable lead.

[squirecam]

17. Correct

Especially when Florida votes after that.

[democrattotheend]

12. Refusing to do so would be incredibly disrespectful

To those of us in later states, many of whom who have already been screwed out of the chance to vote for the candidates we really wanted due to the media's incessant push to narrow the field.

If Biden decides he doesn't have to debate Bernie or campaign in my state (a safe blue state where candidates usually only come for money) then Bernie's getting my vote for sure.

[NCProgressive]

18. I don't think those in later states are anxious to throw in a losing ballot.

[democrattotheend]

21. Pretty ironic coming from a supporter of a candidate left for dead a week ago

And speak for yourself. Or don't since you don't even live in a later state. I do and I am actually more likely to vote for Bernie now than I was when I thought he was running away with it. In part because I have fewer choices now and in part because I don't want either candidate locking it up until everyone gets to vote.

This has been a huge pet peeve of mine since 2004, the first election I was old enough to vote in, when Iowa and New Hampshire basically were the only voters to get a real say thanks to the media's nonsense.

[NCProgressive]

65. After March 7

It will be mathematically impossible for Bernie to win.

Why waste the party's resources that could be put to good use in the GE just so we can go through the motions?

Trump has a head start -- let's give Biden a head start too instead of dragging him through the process so that some people's egos are satisfied.

Let me give you a math exercise --

If Bernie doesn't reduce his delegate deficit by 50% on March 7, he will need 70% of the remaining delegates - which is impossible to do. It is over. To reduce the delegate deficit by 50%, he will have to win Michigan by 16 points, tie in Mississippi and win by at least 10 points in Missouri. The more states he loses, the bigger share of remaining delegates he needs to capture. Where will he get it? The entire remaining terrain except a few states is favorable to Biden.

Smart poker players know when to fold. (Unless they are playing with someone else's money)

[democrattotheend]

68. That's all based on polls, or CW even in states that haven't been polled yet

And the CW has been wrong several times this season, as it was often in 2016 and 2008.

If Bernie had gotten a big lead on Tuesday night, would you be calling for everyone else to drop out and support him now to "give him a head start?"

[NCProgressive]

69. What I wrote above is NOT based on any poll. It is simple delegate math.

[NCProgressive]

70. I would have if the lead was insurmountable.

There is one key difference. The remaining states are all Biden-friendly states and it would be easier for Biden to dig out of a hole that it is for Bernie.

However, if it became mathematically impossible, I'd wish Biden would suspend and endorse Bernie.

[democrattotheend]

74. "Biden friendly states" based on polls or conventional wisdom

Which has been wrong several times this cycle and in previous cycles.

I'm not saying Biden isn't heavily favored now. I'm just irked by the efforts to short-circuit the process when fewer than half of us have had the chance to vote yet. And FWIW, I said the same thing to Bernie supporters a week ago: https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=581753

[NCProgressive]

75. The path is well-lit, clean and without bumps now

[Demsrule86]

86. What is the purpose for the Democratic nominee to have debate when it won't change anything.

If you really didn't support Sanders, you wouldn't want it...well if Bernie had an insurmountable lead,I would be against a debate still...there is no point to allow our nominee to be attacked by our own...Do you want to beat Trump? If Biden wins Michigan, time to let it go. I live in Ohio and will be relieved to see it end whether I matter in terms of a vote or not.

[democrattotheend]

91. I haven't made up my mind yet

A debate might help me do so.

To refuse to debate when less than half the party has had the chance to vote is pretty disrespectful because it says our votes and our opinions don't matter. And it's not like Biden has a commanding lead of actual delegates thus far. It's only perceived that way because the rest of the month doesn't look good for Bernie, but I don't think it's right to blow the voters in the rest of the states off based on predictions of how states will go. Especially for a candidate who was left for dead a week ago.

I get what you are saying, but you live in a state that receives plenty of attention from candidates in the general election. If you lived in a state where politicians only came for high dollar fundraisers but never bothered to ask for your vote because they didn't have to you might feel differently. It's not the candidates' fault - they'd be crazy to campaign here in the general thanks to the f'd up system we have of treating some votes as more equal than others. Since we don't have the votes for a constitutional amendment to get rid of the electoral college, the least the DEMOCRATIC party can do is try to make sure that every state gets some attention in the primaries.

[KPN]

13. Is there a question as to whether the March 15 debate will be held?

Why would it be cancelled? We still have two viable candidates. Granted, Biden has a sizable lead, but cancelling based on that lead seems premature at this point unless the the remaining candidates (of which there are 3?) mutually agree to doing so. But I don't see that happening either.

[Demsrule86]

87. There is a question if the debate should be held if as I believe Sanders is mathematically

eliminated next week...don't want to give the GOP ammo.

[Blue_true]

100. The GOP will get ammo if the debate is not held.

The debate should happen and Joe has to hold his own against a likely desperate Sanders.

[Blue_true]

99. The debate should take place as scheduled.

Biden should have to hold his own in a one on one debate with Sanders. I honestly expect Biden to win that debate because Sanders repeats the same ole stomp phrases in every debate, people are clearly saying that they want a different vision, where the candidate provides some structure to ideas, instead of repeat stomp lines.

[frazzled]

14. Corollary

As soon (and if and when) Biden maintains an insurmountable delegate lead (meaning Sanders has no pathway to exceed him in delegates), Sanders must be compelled to suspend his campaign. No more debates after that time. No "going all the way to the convention." It's for the good of the nation.

This might mean that superdelegates have to voice their voting intentions if Biden doesn't have a path to a majority of the delegates. That's okay, it's going to happen anyway. Voters and the media will have to put enormous pressure on Sanders to suspend.

But we can't have a repeat of 2016, which was very harmful.

[Crowman]

29. He will go when he's ready....

...not one second before. It is his choice. Anyone who pushes him may be sorry.

[emmaverybo]

43. Sounds ominous.

[msongs]

51. bernie has a track record on this issue as do his supporters at the convention nt

[frazzled]

54. Is that a threat?

[Celerity]

60. you sound a bit with the old argy bargy, may I suggest a nice cold Moscow Mule to relax a wee bit?

[Blue_true]

104. That last part sounds like a threat, to me. Decidedly not a wise choice. nt

[NCProgressive]

15. No more debates

I don't want to hear Bernie's one track responses.

Q: "What is the price of okra in Vermont?"

A: The price of okra could be lower if the billionaires had not created income inequality and left the poor working class without a 15 dollar minimum wage and without health care like medicare for all. Billionaires are sucking the oxygen out of hard working people's noses and leaving them destitute without health care.

Heard it all before. No thanks.

[emmaverybo]

44. You captured his M.O. perfectly.

[squirecam]

19. If Bernie loses michigan then he has no mathematical path.

If he wins, I see some small merit to the debate.

If he loses, I see none.

[Cradle of Liberty]

25. Not so sure...

that Biden will wipe the floor with Bernie. At least Bernie is authentic - Joe, not so much or he wouldn't need to plagiarize so much. Joe Biden is NOT the future- he is the past - and I am NOT talking age - I'm talking policy.

[Tom Rinaldo]

38. At this stage it would probably take the other way around for the ultimate nominee to be in doubt

I'm not sure that Biden would wipe the floor with Sanders, but realistically he doesn't have to at this stage. But if Biden doesn't have a strong performance in him now is the time to find out. I expect Biden will do fine in a one to one debate with Sanders. Probably, given my views, I'll end up thinking that Sanders did better, but that's not the point. I want the Democratic nominee, whoever that might be and right now that looks more like Biden, to whomp on Trump in the Fall. I want to head off the expected whispering campaign against Biden that we can expect from Trump's mob at the pass. From my perspective, if Sanders becomes our nominee that's great, but if Sanders isn't, then I want those clips of Biden scoring some points throughout a 90 minute one on one debate to throw in Republican faces. If Biden and Sanders both debate well, Democrats win, period.

[emmaverybo]

53. The presidency is not about debate "performance." It is the ability to use the power of the office

to perform a number of presidential duties and carry out responsibilities that have nothing to do
with debating. Many of these involve our international community, and have global implications. They also may entail crisis preparedness and management. Certainly, judgement and knowledge
figure crucially.

No need to debate to see that Bernie lacks a sophisticated grasp of world politics, negotiating ability, coalition building experience, and that he will not have the trust and respect of our allies, while our foes will find him refreshingly gullible.

[Tom Rinaldo]

57. Debates are about "winning" the presidency. And you can't do anything in an office you don't win

Look, my honest opinion, as expressed above, is that the nomination and ultimately the presidency, is Biden's if he performs at a competent level in a one on one debate, which I expect that he will do.

No one has ever questioned the core competency of Mike Bloomberg, but terrible debate performances pretty much knocked him out of the race.

[emmaverybo]

58. Biden could win without debating Bernie although I'd love to see a debate dedicated to foreign

policy and relations.

I think debates as a measure of anything other than debating skill do not make sense. Better a town hall.

[Tom Rinaldo]

61. I would be happy with a Town Hall format debate. Unfortunately one isn't scheduled far as I know

But see my post #99 below about the importance of Biden doing the Arizona debate at this point

[happy feet]

66. This!

[emmaverybo]

46. Talk about the past! Bernie is a walking 60's campus revolutionary template. His past "achievements"

do give us an idea of what he’d accomplish in future.

[ehrnst]

79. Well, Biden certainly has the support of black voters, who are the base

of the Democratic Party voters.

Bernie is struggling with the youth vote as well...

"Have we been as successful as I would hope in bringing young people in? The answer is no."

After 14 states held primary contests on Super Tuesday, Sanders acknowledged to reporters that he'd been "disappointed" with the results.

"Have we been as successful as I would hope in bringing young people in? The answer is no," Sanders told reporters at a news conference at his Burlington, Vt., headquarters. Sanders went on to acknowledge the undeniable challenge that any candidate banking on the support of younger voters faces: They do not vote in high numbers, compared with other groups.

"I think that will change in the general election, but I will be honest with you, we have not done as well with bringing young people into the process," Sanders said. "It is not easy."

https://www.npr.org/2020/03/06/812486517/bernie-sanders-call-for-young-voters-isn-t-working-out-the-way-he-planned

[ehrnst]

80. What policy has Bernie actually implemented that compares with

The Violence Against Women Act?

The Brady Law - which Bernie voted against FIVE times?

[beachbumbob]

27. will be a big yawn as sanders argues pie in the sky issues and Joe talks reality

[Jersey Devil]

33. Debates are overrated no matter what happens

People forget that Obama was not very good as a debater and Hillary wiped the floor with Trump. Aside from giving a candidate a temporary bump, as occurred with Amy in the NH debate, I doubt they are all that important.

[IcyPeas]

34. listening to 2 guys born in the early 1940s

debating. I can't believe these are the 2 we are left with out of the entire United States of America. but yes I will vote for whoever wins the nomination. I do prefer one of these guys over the other, but my heart's not into either of them.

[democrattotheend]

92. Same here, pretty much

Except I'm not even sure I have a preference. I agree more with Bernie on most of the issues but I don't like the way he's run his campaign. I like Biden personally but he's a little too centrist for me and I have concerns about Trump being able to paint him as demented or not all there mentally. If I had to vote right now it would probably be for Bernie but like you said, my heart's not in it with either of them.

[totodeinhere]

35. Agreed. Joe will have another chance to get his message out in front of millions of voters.

And with less than half of the delegates selected already, it would be disrespectful to voters in later primaries to pull the plug on the debate now.

[Jersey Devil]

45. I hope they lob bombs at each other

Whatever they say to each other will be nothing compared to the crap Trump will toss at the winner in the fall debates for the general. It will be good practice for either of them.

I doubt that debates mean that much, however. Obama was a lousy debater and Hillary kicked the crap out of Trump and you know how that turned out.

[totodeinhere]

47. It depends. I think it's widely believed that Bloomberg's poor debate performance torpedoed

Last edited Fri Mar 6, 2020, 04:15 PM - Edit history (1)

his candidacy.

(Edited to fix typos.)

[Jersey Devil]

52. well, but that was so extremely bad, maybe the worst ever

I doubt Joe or Bernie could be that bad even if they went on a 2 day tequila drinking binge before the debate.

I am also wondering what Elizabeth Warren will do with her time now that she no longer has any reason to kick the stuffing out of Bloomberg.

[totodeinhere]

64. She will return to the Senate and continue her work on behalf of the people of her state and

this country.

[ProgRocknProgPol]

81. Gonna have to disagree with you about Obama's debating prowess

"Please proceed governor" is on par with any of the debate zingers the Reaganites worship from their idol. As for debates themselves, I think they matter much more in primaries than in the general election now, unless a Warren-level decimation happens.

[tavernier]

42. Well... I wouldn't watch because it wouldn't make any difference,

and I’m a bit surprised a network would air it because I don’t think there’s a lot of interest for the same reason.

[still_one]

48. There will be a debate. The only ones speculating there won't be are some here

[totodeinhere]

71. You are probably right IMO. Obviously some people are afraid that Joe might commit

one of more gaffs during the debate which could be harmful to his campaign. But if he refuses to debate, which he won't, the implications of that would probably be much worse. Yes, the debate will go on. I hope it's a civil discussion of the issues and I hope that nothing is said that might jeopardize party unity. They both need to concentrate their fire on Trump.

[still_one]

73. I just hope the remaining debates don't allow audience chaos to prevail

[Demsrule86]

88. There is no reason for a debate...we all know where these candidate stand and it is fodder for the

right...Sanders will attack attack and this helps the GOP...if Sanders loses Michigan...no reason to have one. Also, it may very well be he loses Washington too.

[still_one]

93. Joe will debate

[zackymilly]

50. Why debate when you're ahead? n/t

[Botany]

55. No need to because Biden is winning go away right now so why should he give Bernie a chance to ....

... back into the game.

I might be wrong but Bernie is going to lose Michigan & Mississippi on 3/10 and then
get hammered on 3/17 in Florida after which he will drop out.

[Tom Rinaldo]

59. Regardless of your opinion it would hurt Biden. and therefor most likely all of us, if he refused

to show up for a previously scheduled presidential debate when he still is far from having a majority of pledged delegates, no matter how high the odds otherwise might be that he would go on to secure them. Biden "ducking a debate" (and that is how it will be spun by Trump) is a bad look when the smear Trump is trying to lock in is that Biden isn't up to the challenge.

[NCProgressive]

67. It won't hurt him at all

Most voters will agree with him that the debates are pointless. They may even feel relieved by not having to watch more yelling, finger-pointing and hand waving.

[HotTeaBag]

78. A debate between the last two remaining Democratic candidates is in no way pointless

In fact it's vital because their points of view, experience and policies are almost diametrically opposed to one another and those of us who live in (much) later states deserve to have them debate their ideas one on one without the noise of 10 other people on the stage.

I'm for Joe right now, but barely, and I'd appreciate the opportunity to see he and Sanders one on one to see who can better defend their point of view and is more capable of thinking on their feet...especially as there will be Trump debates on the horizon for whomever wins the nomination.

I'm surprised there is so much opposition to Joe and Bernie debating, I would think that there would be more interest in seeing them without a circus atmosphere where they have plenty of time to fill in the blanks of their respective positions that they may not have been able to in previous debates. Especially Joe, as he always seemed to shy away from going over the set time limit to his answers and quite frankly I'd like to hear more from him.

[Demsrule86]

89. Oh please, there have been numerous debates and you can read about the policies online if

you want to...sick of debates ...see no need when Sanders is going to lose to give him an hour to bash our presumptive nominee.

[HotTeaBag]

96. Eh, voters deserve to see Joe and Bernie one on one

and they will thankfully, regardless of the seeming resistance of those a touch worried about the prospect.

[MyNameGoesHere]

90. There is still going to be a Democratic debate?

I know Joe Biden, life long Democratic icon qualified. Who is the other Democrat he would debate?

[IronLionZion]

95. Don't forget Tulsi Gabbard

[ucrdem]

98. He doesn't have to but I'm sure Joe will want to discuss guns for example

Will Bernie?

[still_one]

101. There will be a debate, and it won't change anyone's mind

[zackymilly]

103. Tell Bernie the debate is in Selma. He won't show. n/t

[MaryMagdaline]

106. I am always shocked at how much weight people place on debates

We know Biden. We know Bernie. What is there left to say? Neither person will be standing up and debating in the White House. They are not running for prime minister.

Debates are good for newbie candidates to display their knowledge and experience. These two guys are known quantities.