Elizabeth Warren's exit interview is a warning for the dirtbag left

[wyldwolf]

Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders supporters, and how online meanness backfires.

One of the big questions in the debate over Sen. Bernie Sanders’s angry online fans is whether they’re worth talking about at all. They don’t speak for the campaign, so it’s unfair to blame Sanders for their antics. And the vast bulk of the American public isn’t on Twitter — why would you expect them to base their vote on what happens on that site?

Sen. Elizabeth Warren’s campaign exit interview with Rachel Maddow, aired Thursday night, is a clarifying moment in this conversation. In the interview, Warren showed palpable anger with the online Sanders army’s treatment of her and other progressives.

“I think there’s a real problem with online bullying and online nastiness. I’m not just talking about who said mean things; I’m talking about some really ugly stuff that went on,” she said. She expressed particular concerned about threats, citing the publication of phone numbers and home addresses belonging to two women who worked for the Nevada Culinary Union after it produced a fact sheet critical of Sanders’s health care plan.

Warren’s reaction illustrates that these tactics make it at least somewhat harder for Sanders to build allies in the Democratic Party. And this failure of elite backing has real repercussions.

Maddow asked about Sanders’s disavowal of his supporters’ attacks on her, and Warren seemed not to find it very persuasive. “We are responsible for the people who claim to be our supporters and do really dangerous, threatening things to other candidates,” Warren said. Then when asked if “it’s a particular problem with Sanders supporters,” the senator replies bluntly: “It is. And it just is. It’s just a factual question.”

The purported aim of all the pro-Sanders trolling, the snake emojis directed at Warren on Twitter, and the vitriolic attacks on the Nevada Culinary Union is to shame or bully the targets into getting behind Sanders. Judging by this interview, it seems to have had the opposite effect on Warren.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2020/3/6/21167830/elizabeth-warren-bernie-sanders-rachel-maddow-bernie-bros?fbclid=IwAR3kuFnv1bCEqzUxxtY7Q3IiT2HDGjhVb1oiTL4m2Xq8vJsqqve_K7gvvRw

[msongs]

1. self proclaimed revolutionaires are usually quite nasty to those who free themselves nt

[Kingofalldems]

2. I bet there are some right wing infiltrators involved.

They badly want Bernie to get the nomination.

[PatrickforO]

7. Russians too.

[Chainfire]

36. I agree

Any number of false flag instigators could represent part of the problem. However, there will also be a fruitcake fringe hanging around anyone's campaign.

One of the problems we have is that we know the Russians are working to disrupt our process and to support Trump, but it is nearly impossible to distinguish a nut from an agent. These guys are really slick. On another (international) forum, I suggested that some of the posters there may have been agents and the main body of the forum thought I was the nut. They could not fathom that some of them may not be sincere.

It is as if we think it is always happening somewhere else.

I am with Dr. Carl Sagan when he said that every proposition must pass the BS sniff test.

[OhNo-Really]

48. Maybe evil Bernie Broa work for Eric Prince

[LisaM]

3. She actually got farther working with Scott Brown than with Sanders.

That really stuck out for me - she said when she ran against Scott Brown in 2012, they mutually were able to establish ground rules for their campaigns - in that case, not taking money from Super PACs, by having a productive conversation to find, as she put it, creative solutions.

She also reiterated that if you try a solution to a problem and it doesn't work, try something else. If that doesn't work, try again - basically, hack away at the problem until it's solved.

It shouldn't be that she got more cooperation from Scott Brown than from Bernie Sanders. It just shouldn't be that way.

[squirecam]

5. The self described #dirtbag left

Isn’t interested in cooperation.

[Hav]

33. That's interesting, not only concerning treating each other with respect

but also in regards to problem solving. Not every problem requires a hammer.

Tells you all you need to know about Warren and BS and why one of those is seen as effective and pragmatic while the other earned his label massive failure.

[TwilightZone]

4. The anti-establishment stuff attracts those people by its very nature.

If your campaign strategy is to paint the world as us vs. them in stark terms, you're going to get some of that.

I don't think that Sanders actively encourages that behavior, but he's also a bit reluctant to be too critical of it, and there's no doubt that his strategy and rhetoric attracts a certain kind of supporter. They're a subset of his overall support, of course, but it's pretty obvious they exist and aren't just a bunch of Russian trolls. Unless Russian trolls are running organizations like the East Bay DSA in Oakland.

[squirecam]

6. Oh come on.

Today he had his one liners ready. He stopped between each one, so that his supporters could “Boooo” Joe. He actively encourages it.

Obama never put up with that crap. “Don’t boo. Vote.”

https://m.

[TwilightZone]

9. What I meant was that I don't think he encourages the worst of it.

I think he has to be somewhat disturbed by the threats of violence, calling her the "C" word, the snake nonsense, that kind of thing. It's reinforcing every stereotype in the Bernie Bros. playbook that he and his supporters insist doesn't exist.

I could be wrong, but I can't imagine that he sees the worst of the harassment as positive for his campaign. Maybe he does.

But, then, that's part of the problem, of course. If you encourage boorish behavior, you have to take some degree of responsibility if your supporters take it too far. And that's where I think he often fails, as Warren noted.

See also: Trump, Donald J.

[showblue22]

39. Briahanna Joy of Bernie's camapain and also Sirota...

Have engaged in targeted harassment and openly encouraged supporters to doxx people.

[TwilightZone]

42. Yeah, his staff is another matter entirely.

That's an area where he has significantly more control, but basically gives them free reign. They also seem to give him terrible advice and don't always keep him in the loop. He apparently didn't know for hours that BB had dropped out and endorsed Biden. He found out when a reporter asked him about it.

I don't know if he openly encourages their behavior or he pays so little attention to what they do that he doesn't even know they're doing it. The latter would be a little hard to believe, which leaves the former.

[Cha]

47. And, Obama is a Winner.

[empedocles]

8. BS a 'bit reluctant to b too critical . . . ' ???

Despite BS's very dubious high level hires, repeated 'dirtbag' behaviors - all over years spans; BS supporters keep on trying to give BS the person a pass. Hasn't worked well at election time.

[TwilightZone]

11. I was being a bit facetious.

It doesn't really come across in print, of course. He does make the occasional effort to reign it in, but for the most part, he doesn't get in their way as much as he should. He also should have dealt with this five years ago when it first became an issue.

I agree completely that Sanders supporters give it a pass. We have several on DU that insist there's nothing wrong with it, up to and including the online harassment and sexist slurs.

[empedocles]

13. You fooled me. Thanks.

[TwilightZone]

14. Yeah, I just wasn't clear enough.

We're all on the same page.

[BeyondGeography]

10. Standards are old-fashioned

They also keep everything from turning to shit.

I'm glad she's taking this stand.

[Triloon]

12. go forth and multiply

In other words.. go get screwed.

[TwilightZone]

15. We should all reject threats, doxxing, online harassment, sexist slurs, and the like.

You disagree?

[Triloon]

16. I reject purging the left from the Democratic Party

[TwilightZone]

17. Is that a yes?

We can do without people who think that doxxing, sexism, harassment, and threats are a good thing.

No big loss. Ironically, they're probably doing more to undermine Sanders than anyone else is.

[squirecam]

18. I endorse purging the dirtbag left

Nt

[Hav]

34. Seconded

The Dems are better off without the equivalent to the maggat crowd. Taking a stand against these deplorables is also taking a stand for those harassed and threatened by them.

[wyldwolf]

19. Do you think that's happening? And why?

Failure to win elections isn’t a purge.

[Triloon]

20. left dems have bit the bullet and voted for every 'moderate'

dem prez candidate in history, even as the party drifts further to the right every year. Now we're called 'dirtbags' as a group, and traitors and commies, losers and morons. We hear it from Limbaugh and we hear it from you. We hear it from Trump and we hear it from Pelosi, and we hear it from Biden too. Yes, the dem party as a whole wants to purge its Left.
Too bad. We're stuck with you and you're stuck with us.

[wyldwolf]

21. And moderates owe you nothing for your votes.

It's called Democracy.

Losing elections isn't a purge.

[Triloon]

24. Are we supposed to owe moderates something?

For what? For taking our passions and policies, diluting them, and failing to execute again and again?
Nah.
Enjoy your Super Tuesday giggles, but Biden's vetting has just begun. He's a good man and it's going to make me sad and angry. Again.

[wyldwolf]

25. only your vote

consider it your membership dues for the Democratic party.

[Triloon]

32. I pay my dues every day.

The democratic party is not your private club, though you might wish it were. I have voted a straight dem ticket for 50 years, as has my whole family since the 1920's. But go ahead, call me a freeloader, dirtbag, commie. Why should I mind?

[wyldwolf]

37. No you don't

[wyldwolf]

44. you're part of the "burn it to the ground if I can't have my way" crowd.

Pretending to have some rich Democratic party heritage.

[W_HAMILTON]

40. The "dirtbag left" is what these people call themselves.

Educate yourself on the topic before getting so offended.

[rzemanfl]

27. ....

[Celerity]

30. +100

[treestar]

35. Don't you owe yourself something, like not having

another Dotard term? It is not about the moderates. Just what you want from what you can have. Others create that pressure. I would rather there were no Republicans, but there are, and they get worse and worse.

[Doremus]

26. This +1000 Nobody says anything about the attacks made on Sanders' staffers either.

Edit to add:

BTW, I'm an unapologetic progressive. I believe in M4A, student loan foregiveness, free college, climate change programs, taxing the rich, and more. I was for Elizabeth and now I'm for Bernie because he espouses my beliefs.

I and probably 99% of my fellow progressives have never attacked anyone. We've held our noses and voted for moderates for the last 40 years. I'm getting fed up with being painted as a communist, radical rabblerouser or any number of other epithets commonly spouted on DU.

There are a lot of us. Nearly as many as there are moderates. You might want to think about it before you kick us out.

[mathematic]

29. "dirtbag left" is what they call themselves

I get it, you don't think Chapo Trap House exists. But they do. They're leftists, they hate and harass liberals, and bernie's team does interviews with them.

[Turin_C3PO]

31. Dirtbag left

is not talking about most lefties. It’s that small group on social media who are toxic and harass innocent people.

[Doremus]

38. Which are probably mostly Russian operatives trying to divide us. Look who's falling for it. And

And alienating genuine leftists in the process. Great going!

[TwilightZone]

46. Nope, they're a podcast who are an unofficial platform for the Sanders campaign.

They named themselves the dirtbag left. It's not a name others made up to mock progressives.

I replied to one of your comments in the other thread with more info. You should check it out. You might find it a little enlightening and understand why some of us take issue with it.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1287&pid=642337

[LizBeth]

22. Sanders himself has been divisive, angry, accusatory. Sanders hires people that vote third party

and are angry, divisive and accusatory. Sanders holds up endorsers that are angry, divisive and accusatory.

I am tired of people saying Sanders is not responsible when Sanders created this environment and nurtured and fed this environment for five years.

[showblue22]

41. He sure did! It's actually his strategy.

[LizBeth]

45. Yes, it is his strategy so people need to quit telling us it is not Sanders fault. He OWNs it!

[Cha]

23. The DL seem to think they're so

clever but they're only hurting themselves.

Thank you, Elizabeth!

[LakeArenal]

28. Bernie's squad throws down gauntlets

Then get all self-righteous when the glove is picked up.

[NCProgressive]

49. This is precisely why one should not run an anger driven campaign

and fuel the anger with a talk of "revolution" which makes supporters do untoward things.

A campaign of hope results in calm and just as passionate supporters who really work to move one's agenda forward rather than try to see any opposition as an enemy.

Sanders has always played coy about his vile supporters and given lukewarm rebukes which were seen as a wink and a nod. It is similar to "there were very fine people on both sides."

Sanders also chose his campaign leadership with the same mindset. What David Sirota, Jeff Weaver, Nina Turner or Brihana Joy Grey do on conventional media is not all that different from the twitter-based supporters except that they cannot use swear words on conventional media. However, every time I see Nina Turner or David Sirota on TV, I know deep down in my heart that they'd use swear words if they could -- they are just under the surface.

Sanders would have had a far better chance running a positive campaign. At the outset, he should have had a press conference telling his supporters that they shouldn't cease all bullying and angry posts and unfriend/unfollow any supporter who doesn't help Bernie run a decent campaign. By not doing this, Sanders' message was lost.

[Cha]

50. Kick

[betsuni]

51. K&R