Bernie Needs a Big Win, and He's Betting It All on Michigan

[Demsrule86]

..."But Biden might have the edge on another issue crucial to Michigan voters.. As vice president, he played a key role in the auto bailout that helped save Michigan’s economy from the brink in 2009. Sanders voted against the Wall Street bailout that included auto bailout funds (though he did vote to fund a bailout for the industry in a separate billy). Clinton slammed him for that move in 2016, and it’s likely to resurface before Tuesday.

“NAFTA is sort of a gut check-issue about how much you care about workers in the heartland, so I think that's a tough, tough, a tough one for the vice president,” said Rep. Andy Levin (D-Mich.) who had backed Elizabeth Warren in the primary.

“And Sen. Sanders voted against the auto bailout in the end. We wouldn’t be here without that, so that’s a problem for him,” Levin said in a subsequent conversation."

The rigidity that led Sanders to vote to destroy autos means that he should not be our nominee...and the fact is there would be no autos if the GOP joined by Sanders had successfully stopped the TARP money containing both emergency funds and the fund used eventually as loan to the autos after a successful bankruptcy being released. I would add this loan was paid back with considerable interest and thousands of jobs were saved...no thanks to Sen.Sanders who in the end voted against the autos.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/wxe7pz/bernie-needs-a-big-win-and-hes-betting-it-all-on-michigan

[PatSeg]

1. Also Sanders voted against

funding for Flint, Michigan during the water crisis.

[Demsrule86]

2. You should make that an OP, I forgot that.

[PatSeg]

7. Here you go!

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1287643379

[Me.]

27. I Did Not Know That

[Demsrule86]

51. I am sure I don't understand why...no Sanders supporter has ever offered an explanation...must

have had some spending that offended him somehow which is way more important then clean drinking water for kids...

[RazBerryBeret]

53. Eat the Dirt (this has been posted several time on here)

in the words of Barbara Boxer:

“You take a beautiful bill like WRDA ... and then you put a pile of dirt on top of it, which I call the McCarthy rider, and then you stick a little Maraschino cherry on top, which is Flint and a couple of other good things,” Boxer said on the floor. “And then you say, OK, eat the dirt.”

Senators from Washington state and Oregon also opposed the amendment, which in part would boost water deliveries to the San Joaquin Valley and Southern California. They said it would cost fishery jobs and ease environmental restrictions.

“Our colleagues over here were frustrated that the other side would never live up to a Flint agreement,” said Sen. Maria Cantwell, D-Washington.

“And the consequence is they’re cynical enough to put Flint in this bill as a way to get votes for something they know they should not be bringing to the floor of the United States Senate.”

FYI, Chuck Schumer, Cory Booker, and Elizabeth Warren also voted nay on the bill

[Demsrule86]

66. Well if other Democrats who did this were running for president, I wouldn't vote for them either

Sanders simply is too rigid for me in terms of ideology.

[Sloumeau]

3. Without TARP, the Great Recession...

would have become the Second Great Depression. If you let the banks collpase, the economy grinds to a halt.

[Kahuna7]

6. Exactly! Hey! I have an idea. We should let the banks and financial institutions

(not) fail!

[Demsrule86]

9. Very true.

[Eyeball_Kid]

4. IMO, the NAFTA/auto industry votes

are small potatoes this time around. The much larger issue is the candidates' overall viability, which can be interpreted as the ability to squash Trump like a bug. A narrow lead in the general WILL encourage major GOP cheating. That's how they win. We want a landslide. And the question is, who can deliver a landslide?

[Demsrule86]

10. That is your opinion...my husband kept his job because of the auto bailout...

And I have no doubt Trump would destroy Sanders with this issue...so the answer is Biden. Biden will destroy Trump. If Sanders had been successful on the last vote which contained the temporary money and the money ultimately used as a loan for the industry...the autos would be gone and millions of jobs as well...so Sander is too rigid ideologically to be our nominee.

[KPN]

16. Well, there's a saying that goes something

like statistics don’t mean anything if it’s personal.

[Demsrule86]

18. Tarp saved this country from depression and once autos were gone the wouldn't have been back.

[jmowreader]

47. TARP saved the WORLD from collapse

The US is such a huge part of the world economy, if it would have collapsed as Sanders wanted the fallout would have taken out the rest of the world economy.

And no, the world wouldn’t have become some sort of socialist paradise. It would have gone straight into thugocracy.

[Demsrule86]

48. That is true...and Sanders should never be our nomoinee...you can't let rigid ideology stop you

from saving the world if it becomes necessary .

[greatauntoftriplets]

54. The U.S. auto industry would have collapsed.

[KPN]

61. This is the same false crap people threw at Sanders

in 2016. He didn’t vote against the auto industry. Look it up. There were a number of other Democratic Senators who voted against TARP for the same reason Sanders did — the lack of accountability with the funds and for the problem that required the bailout in the first place. But go ahead and take everything out of context and misrepresent it as usual. Sanders voted in a prior separate bill to financially rescue the auto industry — earlier the same year I believe. He didn’t vote against a fund to avoid a depression — he voted against a “bail-out” of a willfully negligent industry without better accountability for the bail-out funds and the lack of accountability for the need for a tax payer bail-out in the first place.

You folks are replaying 2016 with this attack.

[DownriverDem]

14. Why then

are you undecided? You comment shows a disconnect to me.

[beachbumbob]

5. recent issue always out weighs issues from 30 years ago, so sanders has lots of

michigan vulnerability when viewed this way.

[Demsrule86]

11. I agree...no one intended harm with NAFTA...at least not Democrats...and Biden regretted the vote

and has a very good record after that...and Sanders was willing to allow the autos to go under...his final vote would have been it for this industry had the GOP and Sanders (also any other Democrat who voted against releasing the funds) gotten their way.

[KPN]

17. It's come to that? No one intended harm? That's

the meaningful metric? And regrets are a solvent? Really?

Sounds like fealty to me.

[Demsrule86]

19. I consider voting against auto in their desperate time of need way worse than any NAFTA vote...if

Sanders had his way in the last vote, the autos would be gone...and he voted with the Republicans.

[KPN]

25. You are entitled to your opinion of course. Mine

is different.

[Demsrule86]

49. I am thankful we had a president willing to expend his capital to save the world

economically...Barack Obama and give us our only healthcare...ever to have passed Congress. Bernie talked about it for years and years...President Obama got it done. He saved millions of good paying jobs in the Mid West and the South too. Joe fought to save to save the autos when some like Sanders said let them go. Fact is TARP was unpopular...so I particularly respect those who voted for it...and have serious qualms about those who didn't

[NoMoreRepugs]

30. Long term effect of NAFTA was far more difficult

to predict than allowing the auto industry to collapse immediately - I don’t think one need be a NASA level thinker to comprehend that.

[KPN]

31. No they weren't. Maybe to you ... but certainly not

to many. NAFTA was controversial for exactly that reason — it’s long term affects on American manufacturing industry/workforce/economy.

[Demsrule86]

36. Of course it was different....GM would be here today and gone some hours and days later...so

Last edited Sun Mar 8, 2020, 10:42 AM - Edit history (1)

would Chrysler and ultimately Ford because of parts issues...Sanders was willing to allow this to happen rather than to vote to release the Tarp funds...and let's just say letting banks collapse isn't smart either...we would have had a depression...and the autos would be gone forever...when Joe gets down in Michigan, and ( I will see him tomorrow in Ohio) he will set the record straight and make Sanders take responsibility for his vote which if he and the Republicans who also supported it were successful would have destroyed the autos.

[Hortensis]

8. Good points, but damn the silly clickbait headlines.

Among the things we can all agree on about Sanders is that he is not a "betting it all" type. He may desperately need a big win in MI, and I believe he won't get it, but Energizer Bernie will just churn on to the bitter end.

Sanders is has serious big money and won't be running out. He also has an enormously sophisticated database operation that even the Republicans have to respect. BUT, above all, he has the 300 delegates that is really all he needs to get his name in nomination and make trouble at the convention.

[Demsrule86]

12. All good points...the headline was the one in the article...so I left it alone.

I hope he will bow out, but you are right he probably will be his usual divisive self.

[Hortensis]

21. Lol, and you won't be betting that hope. Thanks for

the article. MI's coming up fast, and I haven't thought about it.

Did read that Fox/the Murdochs are going to try to give Sanders a boost by hosting another town hall for him. In Detroit, Monday night.

Bless all their scheming little hearts. At least MI seems to have a closed primary.

[Demsrule86]

22. He is going on Fox...really?

[Hortensis]

29. Again. They're not exactly worried that after promoting him

to Republican voters during the Democratic primaries that he might draw any of Trump's populists in the GE.

I have to amend my notion that MI's primary is closed. You just have to ask for either a Democratic or Republican ballot and vote that ballot; and that choice is just for the one primary, doesn't affect the GE.

[Demsrule86]

50. I just don't see it being a big factor this year...chaos voters. I suppose that is what Fox

is hoping to get.

[DownriverDem]

13. Trade issues are not important

here in Michigan. The Big 3 have come out and announced big investments here recentlhy. Bernie is running trade issue ads big time and they are not needed. Health care is more important. Many folks in Michigan have employer health care. They do not want Bernie to take it away for his M4A plan.

[Demsrule86]

15. My son has union healthcare...gold plated and fought for in contracts for years. I wouldn't give it

up, we have healthcare from auto's but not union...we don't use it...us hubs current job which is better...not to know we have something...if the worst happens...I believe in universal healthcare...just not forcing people on M4A.

[Turin_C3PO]

24. The problem is that union healthcare

can go away fast if a bad situation arises. That’s why there needs to be an affordable option out there that’s just as good as those gold union plans. A very strong public option or Medicare-buy in should be available that’s cheap and provides excellent benefits.

[Demsrule86]

32. That works for me but don't force unions on an inferior plan. I have to say I am unimpressed

with Medicare after dealing with my sis in law's bad fall...it is expensive and doesn't cover but 80%. She has a wrap but that only covers what Medicare covers...it doesn't expand coverage...and if you go with the advantage plan...you face pre-existing conditions issues if you want to go back to regular Medicare. My sis in law will likely spend the rest of her live in a nursing home because of the really shitty limited rehab that she received while on Medicare.

[Turin_C3PO]

37. Medicare should be better than it currently is.

i think the Democrats should increase Medicare benefits while lowering its costs and then make it available to all who want to buy in.

[Demsrule86]

40. I agree. It is expensive...I figure hubs and I will spend $500-$600 based on the current plan

when we retire...and there are deductibles and copays...and as far as I know Medicare is the only program where pre-existing still applies if you attempt to go back to regular medicare from an advantage plan.

[Peacetrain]

20. Biden has an affection in MI, that Clinton did not have.

[Demsrule86]

23. He has much good will in the Mid West which is one of the reasons Obama picked him...well

off to canvas will check back when I get home...also voting for Joe today...Go Joe (in Ohio).

[Peacetrain]

26. GO GO GO Demsrule86

[Demsrule86]

33. Had a great day...people were enthusiastic...some had already vote for Joe by mail or early voting..

Out of 80 people who answered their door, only two were undecided and one was a Republican (who knows how he ended up on our list)...there is a great deal of good will for Joe. He is coming on Tuesday and I am going to see him.

[RDavisJ1]

28. Sanders still has a Hillary problem..

There were a lot of people in the rust belt that did not like Hillary. They voted for her, with their nose pinched, but they supported Sanders in the primary. Without Hillary, Sanders is running into issues. He's underperforming 2016 numbers and the kids are not showing up.

[Demsrule86]

34. Sanders like Trump needed Hillary as a foil...Let's hope this leads to Trump underperform as well.

[SiliconValley_Dem]

35. I think a lot of black voters will go for him but also suburban voters

Of all races. I really thin this coming Tuesday could put it out of reach for Bernie.

[Demsrule86]

41. I hope so. Sanders has gone scorched earth...maybe a primary wouldn't hurt in in 2024 if he

really runs again. And the sooner we end this the better.

[BidenBacker]

38. Did some reading to refresh my memory on TARP just last night

To be fair to Bernie, he was not in favor of letting the US auto industry fail thus causing millions of auto workers and suppliers to lose their jobs. He voted against TARP because it also bailed out the crooks on Wall Street at the same time.

When Sanders hits Biden over TARP Joe needs to hit him right back. Letting our huge financial institutions go down the tubes woulda caused the Second Great Republican Depression and it was dangerously irresponsible for Sanders to have voted to allow this to happen...no better than if McCain or Romney had let the American auto industry go belly up because "hey, that's just capitalism at work". Practically nobody relished having to do this but when somebody breaks into your home and holds a knife to your kid's throat demanding ransom you pay it right then and there and then after he leaves you install security measures to prevent that from happening again.

I would much rather call this aspect of TARP a draw and instead hear what both candidates plan to do about installing security systems on Wall Street so that they can't come back during the inevitable next financial crisis and hold our economy hostage once again. I'm a big believer in the "if you're too big to fail then you're too big to exist" philosophy and to my knowledge there have been no real meaningful safeguards implemented since 2008-2009 that would preclude this from occurring again.

Which from the looks of the market recently will happen sooner than either man can take office.

[Demsrule86]

42. No, the bottom line is no matter what Bernie said he supported ...he was so rigid that in

his quest to end TARP, he was willing to allow the autos to fail...doesn't matter what he wanted, and it is fair to say in the end he voted with the Republicans to kill the autos and the banks...and that bodes ill for our economy if he is the president which thankfully won't happen...Sanders was willing to let the autos die...that is the bottom line.

[honest.abe]

39. "Sen. Sanders voted against the auto bailout in the end"

Yet another critical wrong vote.

[Demsrule86]

43. Yes and another instance where he voted with the Republicans...if Sanders had his way GM, Chrysler

and most likely Ford would be gone...and all the good paying jobs that exist because of these companies.

[honest.abe]

44. I hope voters remember this.

If they do Sanders is toast in MI.

[Demsrule86]

45. I think they will...

[LiberalFighter]

46. How big of a win does he think he needs?

He got a 4 delegate advantage in 2016.

At best, Sanders might net about 12. More likely Biden will have a net in delegates.

[Demsrule86]

57. I agree...and I don't think Sanders wins Michigan this time.

But Florida will be the end.

[RandySF]

52. The problem is he's not going to get the margin he needs to overcome Mississippi

unless he also gets huge margins in Missouri and Washington (possible bu not likely).

[Demsrule86]

60. Two ways it could go...Sanders supporters get out and vote like crazy to save him...not likely

in my view. The other way is Biden wins big even in places Sanders was thought to do well in as he has the momentum from Super Tuesday...Sanders didn't even get good news out of California...it was a close race..nothing to brag about. That is what I think happens which means the primary will be essentially over on Tuesday.

[Sunlei]

55. Has a rally on now live with the best music, I hope people turn out to vote!

Its been disappointing watching the turnout vote numbers in this primary for D party.

[Demsrule86]

62. Turnout for Biden is up...Sanders turnout is low...he never expanded his base...many Democrats

voting...for Biden.

[Sunlei]

65. I've already voted in the primary for Sanders but of course will vote for the D in GE.

guaranteed early voter here

[Demsrule86]

67. Good for you...I would vote for Sanders if he were the nominee too.

[comradebillyboy]

56. It will need to be an awfully big win to overcome

the looming disaster in Florida. That one might sink his campaign.

[Demsrule86]

63. I think the primary is essentially over on Tuesday but no doubt the final nail in the coffin

will be Florida...what Biden is up by 50 points?

[Julian English]

58. I was in Michigan to get my absentee ballot

And from what I can see Biden is going to win and possibly win big.

People just don't trust BS.

[Demsrule86]

59. Good news...and great for the general too...if he wins big.

[showblue22]

68. I live in Traverse City MI

After seeing how Trump is doing with China on trade, people I know and have spoke to.. no longer blame NAFTA and talk more about free trade.

[gollygee]

64. My vote will go to Joe!

Looking forward to Tuesday.