It serves the Party for Sanders to stay in the race.

[Laelth]

In one way, at least ... it gives the illusion of choice to those who have not yet voted.

I voted in TX on Super Tuesday. My vote mattered. At the very least, it felt like my vote mattered. While the truth is that our nominating process is effectively over, lots of people in lots of states haven’t gotten a chance to participate in the process. Joe Biden will almost certainly be our nominee, but Bernie’s staying in the race gives these excluded Democratic voters something to vote for ... either Joe or Bernie. It’s some choice, at least, and it will allow a lot of Democrats to feel like they participated this year.

Thoughts?



-Laelth

[Sloumeau]

1. I have no problem with Sanders staying in the race if...

he pressures his surrogates to stop the dishonest "Biden has dementia" type attacks. Otherwise, the sooner he is gone, the better.

[Laelth]

4. I agree with you on that.

Even if the accusation were true, and I am not saying that it is, it’s seriously counterproductive to be tearing down our presumptive nominee at this time.

-Laelth

[ehrnst]

9. Would Sanders supporters be agreeing with this if the inverse were true?

Many were calling for Warren to drop out and endorse Sanders from the moment Sanders announced.

Would they be saying "Sanders needs to reach out to Biden, Klobuchar and Buttigieg supporters in an effort to unify the party" or would they be saying "The voters have spoken, and our candidate needs to continue with their messaging, despite who disagrees."

[Laelth]

13. I can't speak for them. n/t

-Laelth

[zackymilly]

14. Yes you can. You said you voted for Sanders. Correct?

[Laelth]

17. I did. I voted for Bernie.

That makes me one, former Bernie supporter (and it only lasted for about 48 hours—between Pete’s dropping out and the day after Super Tuesday).



I voted for Hillary in the 2016 primary. Trust me. I am not representative of any Bernie supporter other than myself. That said, I still want THE WHOLE CHICKEN that Bernie has promised to fight for.



-Laelth

[zackymilly]

19. It's down to a chicken. Last time Bernie promised me a pony! n/t

[ehrnst]

26. But the promise of a total health care system overhaul went from 8 years down to 2....

[Laelth]

30. Now that you mention it ...

WHERE’S MY PONY?

I want that too.



-Laelth

[Gothmog]

85. How do you demand concessions when you're getting the brake beat off of you?

Link to tweet

[emmaverybo]

11. That's the crucial issue. But unfortunately even if he bows out now, supporters will keep up

the lies and distortions about Biden’s mental condition and his record on social security. I am talking about bad faith supporters, not all who endorse Sander’s ideas.

And MSM is only too happy to keep giving them a voice. They would do better to continue to lobby for Bernie’s policies instead of lobbing vicious and unfounded attacks on Biden,

Cutting them out of the process though could be like shaking a stick at a hornet’s nest. I think
Bernie probably needs more time.

[Laelth]

54. Hear! Hear! n/t

-Laelth

[HarlanPepper]

51. He'll say he is publicly

But will continue to direct it behind the scenes. That has been his MO.

[Claustrum]

2. If Bernie changes his message, I would agree.

If Bernie changes his message, I would agree. However, I can't see that happening. His whole message is based upon the establishment or the old way of doing thing left them behind. And the way of achieving his goal is to give out free m4a, free college for all, etc. That contradicts what Biden believes when he (and most realistic people know) that we can't get them all for free, thus, we can't have them all. If Bernie were to stay in, he needs to change his message about how the democratic party is helping everyone, but that runs counter to what he has been saying for years.

[Laelth]

31. My argument, here, is of the "silver lining" variety.

I thought Bernie should have dropped out after Super Tuesday, but it looks like he’s in the race for much longer.

In the OP, I am trying to say that there’s at least one benefit to Bernie’s remaining in the race ...

perhaps only one.



-Laelth

[Demsrule86]

55. He won't change his message and Trump has begun the general...Sanders needs to drop out now.

He lost Michigan in every country ...it is over.

[k8conant]

61. How many countries have a Michigan?

[Demsrule86]

65. You got me...my ADHD is kicking up bigtime...counties...hehe

[Laelth]

64. Yes. It's over. It was over on Super Tuesday.

But Bernie’s not dropping out. Now what?

The only silver lining that I can see is that a prolonged primary season gives a lot of Democrats a good excuse to go to the polls and vote.

-Laelth

[Demsrule86]

66. There is no silver lining. Voting in a primary and not being to turn to the general, having our

candidate beat up by the right and the Sanders campaign who echo the GOP attacks is a recipe for disaster. I hope Sen.Sanders will do the right thing today and drop out...I guess we will see how badly he wants to beat Trump at 1:00 pm today.

[Laelth]

68. Fair enough. We shall see what we see. n/t

-Laelth

[TwilightZone]

3. Nope.

We are better served by it ending now so we can (all) start targeting Trump, providing voters with a unified message, registering voters, and developing infrastructure to get out the vote in November.

An illusion of choice isn't a choice, and everyone knows that this race is over.

[Laelth]

46. Perhaps.

But since neither of us can control Bernie Sanders, I was simply pointing out the one advantage that I could see from his continued fight for the nomination, despite how Quixotic his fight may be.

-Laelth

[Dem2]

5. Doesn't bother me

So long as he backs off on the Biden attacks - both Bernie and his surrogates.

[ehrnst]

7. Why would the campaign and the surrogates change? (nt)

[Laelth]

8. I agree.

It serves no useful purpose to be tearing down our presumptive nominee at this time.

-Laelth

[TwilightZone]

16. He's not going to change his strategy.

Sirota is already doubling-down on the bullshit this morning. They're under the woefully-misguided belief that going hard negative was going to change the race in Sanders' favor and aren't about to change that now. It did change the race, but straight toward Biden.

At this point, they're not even trying to win, which probably means that Sanders is in for the duration just to plug his "message" (that we've all heard for five years), though I really thought he might withdraw this week.

[Laelth]

21. Sigh. I am disappointed to hear that.

I would prefer for Bernie to keep hammering his liberal policy agenda. I don’t want to see him hammering Joe Biden.

-Laelth

[ehrnst]

25. Withdraw? I don't see Sanders doing that until the very last possible moment

Unless.... it would be a way to bow out due to worsening health issues.

[TwilightZone]

29. I don't think his health is an issue.

At least not an imminent one. I think this is no longer about winning and all about message, which serves no purpose because everyone knows the message by now. Everyone knew the message four years ago.

I also think his campaign might have bought their own crap with the "dementia" nonsense and are holding out hope that just one more debate will wildly swing the race. I wouldn't have thought they were that dumb, but his staff proves the opposite just about every time they tweet.

Pushing the knowingly-false dementia nonsense was bad enough. If they actually *believe* it, they're idiots who shouldn't be running a campaign for anything.

[ehrnst]

33. I have to wonder.

I expected him to release his full medical records just to say that he released more than the other candidates, especially after he stated he would.

There was clearly something in those records that wasn't good for his campaign.

[TwilightZone]

37. Even if there wasn't, it's not a good look.

Refusing to release them makes everyone assume he's hiding something, even if he isn't. It was also dumb to promise to release them if there was even a small chance he wouldn't, for exactly this reason.

It could be like the tax returns - I think he didn't want to release those because he's now a multi-millionaire and that makes his "millionaires and billionaires" talking point look kind of silly and a little embarrassing. So, of course, he dropped the millionaires. It could be something similar - not the end of the world, but something he thinks would be an issue. As if the heart attack wasn't already serious.

[Demsrule86]

56. Sanders needs to pay a political price if he stays in and helps Trump...primary him in Vermont... I

am serious. Trump is going to be hard to beat. We need to build on our momentum not have someone who is bitter about losing hurting our nominee for no purpose...he can't win now...all the other candidates dropped out for the good of the country. Sanders should do the same thing.

[ehrnst]

6. Or it promotes false, unrealistic expectations, and disbelief at the inevitable reality. (nt)

[Laelth]

10. Viable argument.

On the other hand, it may get a lot of first-time voters to the polls to practice voting, learn where their polling station is, make sure that they are properly registered, and dramatically increase the chances that they will show up at that poll in November.



-Laelth

[ehrnst]

18. Why do you think that first time voters aren't turning out to vote for anyone else?

Even Sanders admitted young voters aren't turning out for him.

[Laelth]

28. That's not what I meant.

ANY first time voters, whether they vote for Joe, Bernie, or even Tulsi, are good for the party, and keeping the primary going gives these people a reason to get out and vote. No primary choice = no reason to vote and a lower likelihood that these voters will show up in November.

-Laelth

[ehrnst]

35. No one is guaranteed their primary choice will still be in the race when their primary comes.

Why do you think some are entitled to it?

[Laelth]

36. Under our current rules, they're not. I agree.

Our process is whacked. It discourages participation. The one silver lining to Bernie’s staying in the race is that his doing so gives lots of voters a reason to participate in the process.

-Laelth

[ehrnst]

38. So you think that if Sanders isn't on the ballot, his supporters won't "participate in the process?"

If that's the case, they're not concerned with a "process," which isn't something that's going to bode well for them going forward.

[Laelth]

40. On the ballot?

He’ll be on all the ballots. So will Elizabeth Warren and Amy Klobuchar, for that matter. No. That’s not my point.

If everyone drops out now and endorses Joe, there’s no reason for anyone else to show up at the polls and vote. The only silver lining that I can find for Bernie’s remaining in this race is that it might make a lot of Democrats actually feel involved in the process. It will also help them practice voting and will increase the chances that they show up and vote in November. That’s all I am saying.

-Laelth

[ehrnst]

45. Well, isn't that what supporters of Warren, Harris, Klobuchar and Buttigieg have been dealing with?

Yet they showed up and voted, and therefore "got the practice" to vote...

As if voting is so difficult or distasteful if one's favorite candidate didn't last to the end of the primary that it requires "practice..."

That's all I'm saying.

[berksdem]

12. This is why I get frustrated living in PA.

I feel like everything is decided by the time we actually get to vote. As for Bernie, I do not expect him to drop out just yet. Next Tuesday will most likely be the nail in the coffin. He needs to stop the smear campaign against the "establishment" and stop the attacks on Biden. We need unity in the party and Bernie needs to get on board.

[Laelth]

32. This year is no different, from my perspective.

I want Pennsylvanians to have a reason to get out and vote in the primaries. Our nomination process is whacked, obviously.

-Laelth

[berksdem]

43. 100% agree...

I am working on trying to GOTV locally. Right now I am happy to vote for Joe!

[Laelth]

67. I will be thrilled to vote for Joe in November.

He wasn’t my first choice of a nominee, but he’s still a very good choice. With the right Senate, I am convinced that Joe can be a transformative, liberal President. And anything would be better than the orangutan currently occupying the White House.



-Laelth

[pampango]

47. I know the feeling. Ohio moved it primary date up to March 17 and it is already effectively over.

Some states just never really have much impact on the primary process.

[berksdem]

62. yep... it absolutely stinks

but no matter who wins I am voting for blue.

[Evergreen Emerald]

15. No. He is toxic and divisive.

His goal is not to win, but to cause division. It is not time to continue to give Bernie the platform to tear down the party. It is time to unit.

He needs to end it now.

[Laelth]

34. I said I thought he should concede immediately after Super Tuesday.

It appears that isn’t going to happen. The one silver lining, here, is that a contested primary gives people the opportunity to be heard. It gives the illusion of some choice and gives people a reason to go out to the polls.

-Laelth

[Happy Hoosier]

20. I'd be fine IF Bernie shifted fire to Trump.

Attacks on Biden must stop.

[Laelth]

41. I agree.

It is counterproductive to attack the presumptive nominee at this point.

-Laelth

[Demsrule86]

82. The attacks were non-stop today,

[NurseJackie]

22. How do you feel about his top campaign advisors continued efforts to kneecap and hobble Biden...

How do you feel about his top campaign advisors continued efforts to kneecap and hobble Biden by spreading and retweeting the lies that he has dementia (or Alzheimer's disease)? Do you believe that "serves the party"??

What good purpose does it serve for his top campaign staff to spread and repeat rightwing talking points... and doing Trump's work FOR the Republicans and Russia? Why would they want to do anything to convince the American people to NOT vote for Biden?

Is that worth the trade-off? Is giving voters in late primary states the "illusion of choice" so that they "feel like they participated this year" worth the risk of giving people like Cenk, Moore, West, Sirota, Gray, Turner (et al) even MORE time to continue to spread fear and doubt about Biden?

Please respond.

[redstatebluegirl]

27. The crazy people I work with her support BS are saying it was "stolen by the establishment".

They are not going to stop, and he needs the attention so he won't either.

[Laelth]

44. I was just looking for the silver lining.

I argued, here, that I thought Bernie should have dropped out the day after Super Tuesday. He didn’t. The OP describes the one good thing that I can see coming out of Bernie’s intransigence. That’s it.

I am certainly not going to defend either Bernie’s strategy or his surrogates. I will say that I think it is seriously counterproductive to be attacking our presumptive nominee at this time.

-Laelth

[Drunken Irishman]

23. It depends on how he conducts himself.

If he spends the next week attacking Biden, and his surrogates do as well, then no it does not serve the party well.

[world wide wally]

24. This is exactly what they did in 2016

Bernie stayed in the race and bad mouthed Hillary right up to the convention, long after it she had secured the nomination. Back then they harped about superdelegates to diminish Hillary. Now they are after Joe and they won't quit unless Bernie tells them to and he himself begins to campaign for ByeDon.
It's up to you, Bernie. Your groupies are incapable of rational thought, just like Trump's MAGAts.

[Scurrilous]

72. Yes it is.

One reason he gave then is the same as the OP's. Plus voting would engage blah blah much excitement blah blah create big turnout in GE and beat Trump because he stayed in. I think he needed more chapters for his book.

[boston bean]

39. No it does NOT.

History tells us so! Not buying it.

[Laelth]

58. Silver Lining

None of us can control Bernie Sanders. All the OP does is to highlight the one way in which his remaining in the race is useful to us.

-Laelth

[Gothmog]

42. From the Hoarse Whisperer

Link to tweet

[fishwax]

48. i don't think it matters whether he stays in the race or not. what matters

is how his supporters handle themselves and how the supporters of his opponents handle themselves.

If he stays in, I hope his supporters focus on an affirmative case for his priorities, and stay clear of any attacks on biden. Biden is no longer an opponent, because for all intents and purposes that battle is lost. So continue to fight for priorities, but don't fight against the presumptive nominee. That only sows division and dampens our chances.

At the same time, I hope supporters of all our great candidates will focus on Biden's clear and vast advantages over trump. And I hope we will avoid attacks on sanders or his supporters; they are no longer opponents, because for Biden that battle is won. Attacking Sanders and his supporters does no good, and only sows division.

I have no doubt that russians are working to interfere again in our election, and it seems only natural that attacks on biden will be part of the programme, as will attacks on sanders and his supporters.

During the hotly contested 2008 primary, Obama supporters on DU adopted a simple mantra: let it sink. Rather thab taking the bait on such attacks, they just didn't respond, and let the threads sink. It was effective in two ways: it lessened the impact of negative threads, and it allowed Clinton supporters to process their grief and frustration in a long and hard-fought primary so that (as the vast majority did in 2008 and 2016 and will in 2020) they could get back on board behind the nominee after their cadidate lost.

The segment of Sanders supporters who may talk about not supporting the nominee or attacking Biden as more of the same or whatever simply aren't relevant right now. And that's fine. Let 'em be irrelevant. The reality of defeat inspires all sorts of emotions, etc. But most are rational, and will come around. The ones that don't still aren't relevant, and we have mich more to gain by fighting the real opponents--the one over there, playing golf--and the ones cheering while nero plays golf and the country burns.

[Laelth]

49. +1

Great post.



-Laelth

[Demsrule86]

59. It fucking matters and his supporter and campaign people spreading ani-Biden rhetoric on twitter

and elsewhere only help Trump...so is that what he wants to do...I hope not.

[fishwax]

60. i think energies are better spent focusing on trump and the general, but

if people (on either side) want to keep fighting this battle then I'm probably not going to be able to stop them.

When someone supposedly on our side seriously questions whether biden is better than trump, i find it hard to take anything they say seriously. When someone seriously questions whether sanders may intentionally help trump, i also find it reduces their credibility. I understand some of it may come from an emotional place of a long and hard fought battle, but as i said befire i think energoes are better spent elsewhere now.

[HarlanPepper]

50. No thanks

It’s time for Sanders supporters to start accepting reality. Give it a whirl.

[Laelth]

71. I switched my preference to Biden immediately after Super Tuesday.

I could see which way the wind was blowing, and I am a team player. I am not sure that your average Democratic primary voter is convinced that the race is over, despite the fact that you and I know that it is.

If there’s any silver lining to Bernie’s remaining in the race, it is that he might generate increased voter participation (both for him and against him).

-Laelth

[Demsrule86]

52. No it does not...we need to come together and heal...the primary is over. Sanders needs to bow out

months before the convention and before the voting begins.

[Laelth]

74. OK. But it looks like he's not going to do that.

The only silver lining that I can see is that a protracted primary generates higher voter participation.



-Laelth

[Demsrule86]

80. Then we ignore him, let him make a fool of himself if he chooses.

[Me.]

53. No It Doesn't

We'll be stuck with the negativity his people produce and a massive amiunt of sore-loserism

[stopbush]

57. Nope. Sanders needs to suspend, today, before he starts making comments

that will end up in tRump’s commercials.

[tavernier]

69. Yes

[k8conant]

63. What's the rush?

West Virginia Primary is on May 12th.


It seems to me the time has come to have a nationwide primary election all on one day probably in May or June.

[Drunken Irishman]

70. It only matters if Bernie continues to attack Biden...

If there's no viable pathway to the nomination, continued attacks on Biden serve no purpose beyond just creating division. I have no problem with Bernie staying in this race to push his message but when he starts attacking Biden, and his surrogates start pushing conspiracy theories that Biden suffers from dementia, yes, then it's time for Bernie to go.

[RealityChik]

73. Bernie is toxic, but voters DO deserve a primary choice.

At least until at least half the primaries are done, even if the results are obvious. If Bernie could just refrain from alienating other democrats who didn't vote for him.

I'm not confident that he could unite the Democratic Party. If he can't even control his own vicious supporters, how can he keep from discouraging Democrats from not voting at all rather than vote for him. And, if he continues to drive African Americans away, we're dead. Simple as that.

I'm very much the progressive, but to beat trump we need a united front.. I don't believe Bernie is capable of delivering that. Regretfully, my first choice dropped out, so if not Bernie, then Biden.

Let's win the election first, THEN worry about fighting for the progressive agenda. We, the people, have to remain engaged in the "body-politic" in order to get the government we need. So, let's unite and get this done.

[democrattotheend]

75. I agree. There are other benefits too

If Bernie drops out now, it could just add to the feeling by some of his supporters that the process was stacked against him. A few days ago, I thought that if he dropped out of his own accord, it might avoid that, but that was before you had Carville and Clyburn go on TV and call for an end to the primaries when only half the country has had the chance to vote.

Additionally, it will help the Democrats build ground game and infrastructure that will help in November.

Also, several of the later states have special elections scheduled to coincide with the presidential primary. In New York, for example, Governor Cuomo scheduled five special elections, including to replace Republican Rep. Collins, who was convicted of insider trading, for the same day as the presidential primary. Republicans cried fowl, accusing him of doing that to increase Democratic turnout. https://www.wrvo.org/post/cuomo-sets-april-28-special-election-vacant-cny-senate-other-seats. In Wisconsin, there's an important judicial election scheduled the same day as the presidential primaries. If the presidential primaries are completely over Democratic turnout will be lower in those elections, which will only benefit Republicans.

[SoCalNative]

76. And this just adds to the reason

to have one, and only one, primary vote nationwide. No long, drawn out primary season.

[emmaverybo]

77. Agree. Voters deserve to feel they are all part of the process. Sanders supporters will continue

to attack Biden out of sheer vindictiveness and be even more agitated if they feel Sanders has been forced out. I mean the extremist minority within the base of course.

[Laelth]

78. Thank you. n/t

-Laelth

[Demsrule86]

81. It doesnt matter what we do with this guy or his supporters. He and his campaign are going

scorched earth.

[guillaumeb]

79. There is no reason for the process to run this long.

Most voters never have the chance to have their vote count.

[Iggo]

83. Down. Ballot. Matters.

[Gothmog]

84. Watching sanders lose primary races by large margins will be amusing

sanders not dropping out may help Biden. sanders keeps on losing primaries by large margins nnly strenghten's Joe's position https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/11/no-surprise-bernie-sanders-is-still-all-about-himself-never-party/

Sanders’s remaining in the race should serve several salutary purposes for the party and the country. First, seeing him lose overwhelmingly week after week will dispel the notion that the Democratic Party has moved left, or that he is in a dominant position to negotiate with the overwhelming winner. It’s not clear why the Biden camp should “give” Sanders anything.

Second, it is good to keep Biden in fighting form, continuing to boost turnout and showing, as he did in Philadelphia, how presidential he is. Biden can pivot to the general election, essentially ignoring Sanders. (His planned speech on the coronavirus is the perfect opportunity to leave Sanders out of the discussion entirely.)....

Whoever is to replace Sanders as the standard-bearer for the left — hopefully someone as smart and wonky as Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) — will need to learn how to win elections. (Hint: It is not by scaring voters or attaching oneself to the socialist label.) When in office, a new generation of leaders on the left will need to learn the art of deal-making rather than waste years, as Sanders has, rabble-rousing but accomplishing nothing. Unlike Sanders, Warren (or whoever else takes the reins) will not be burdened by a record of reflexively praising dictators nor be driven to attack fellow Democrats.

Sanders will end the race at some point, a diminished figure. In retrospect, his wins in 2016 will be seen more as an anti-Hillary Clinton vote than a pro-Sanders vote. How he behaves at Sunday’s debate will determine whether he leaves a bad taste in the mouths of Democrats.

[iwannaknow]

86. Bernie should stay in as long as Biden has less than 1991 delegates

Let as many people as possible vote! Yes, that is good for the party.