Some of us know Muhammad Ali is my hero.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

He was my north star, my idol even though idolatry is wrong. When he fought Larry Holmes he was well past it and was taking an awful beating. He was game but he was basically a punching bag. His manager Herbert Muhammad who cared about him sent a message to his ring manager Angelo Dundee to throw in the towel and stop the fight. It was the first fight in sixty six fights he didn't end on his feet. Herbert Muhammad did it because he cared about him.

Is there somebody that cares that much about Bernie? His wife? His son? Jeff Weaver?

[elleng]

1. No comparison.

Sorry

[frazzled]

3. Why? I'm curious to know.

It seems like an apt parable to me.

[elleng]

4. Physical v. political.

'When he fought Larry Holmes he was well past it and was taking an awful beating. He was game but he was basically a punching bag. . . It was the first fight in sixty six fights he didn't end on his feet.'

[frazzled]

18. It's a metaphor

politically past it and taking an awful beating in the primaries.

[IluvPitties]

2. Ali had nothing that night, and still stayed up until it was stopped.

Ali was a walking example of grit!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

7. It was stopped in the tenth round and he lost every round.

He was already showing symptoms of Parkinson's Disease and was taking diuretics for weight loss. The irony is he looked like a million bucks. His alter ego Bundini Brown wanted him to go on but Herbert Muhammad had seen enough. After the fight Larry Holmes was literally crying because he was one of Ali's sparring partners and loved him like so many. Ali asked him if you loved me why did you beat me up.

[DonaldsRump]

5. Rope-a-Dope in 1974 was the greatest ever

Great for the wonderful Ali, the best there ever was.

Not so great for George Foreman, but I think he was just right behind Ali in what he accomplished.

Two wonderful people.

[IluvPitties]

6. Too bad George is a Republican!

Great fighter, though!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8. I don't think it's so much he's a Republican.

It's that he has a reflexive loyalty to the man in office.


He learned how to box in the Job Corps. He was in a gang beating people up in Houston's infamous 4th Ward.

[IluvPitties]

10. Could be. Let's call him patriotic then.

[DonaldsRump]

9. Wow, I didn't know that

Surely (don't call me Shirley), he can't support Trump??? If so, my image of George is blown forever!

(But 1994 was a great match too. Brings tears to my eyes when I saw an "old" George take out Michael Moorer.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

11. I believe he knocked Moorer's tooth out

[IluvPitties]

12. He's friends with Sean Hannity.

I used to be a Republican and listen to that blowhard on radio, and George would be a frequent guest.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. Hannity, yikes.

[DonaldsRump]

14. Wow. One of my heroes may be a non-hero n/t

[DemocratSinceBirth]

15. My favorite boxers are Ali, Lennox Lewis, and Sugar Ray Leonard.

Lennox Lewis because he donated a million dollars to the Ali Center and Sugar Ray Leonard because he was a pint sized Ali. Lewis was also one of the few champs to go out on top with all of his senses.

[DonaldsRump]

16. This world is a diminished place without Ali

I remember in the '70s that more people around the world knew his name than the US President.

It's funny that two of the greatest icons ever, Ali and the Beatles, both became huge in the US in February 1964 and they actually met each other that month. Ali's brilliant line: "They are the greatest, but I'm the prettiest."

He SHOOK UP THE WORLD!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

17. There wasn't a world figure of that era that Ali didn't meet

From Gerald Ford to Jimmy Carter to Anwar Sadat to Indira Gandhi to Leonid Brezhnev. It's sad that the Parkinson's Disease robbed him of middle age.

[grantcart]

19. Weaver? Sanders is his money ticket, no one will hire him

It's like those who wanted MA to continue so they could make money off of him

[Awsi Dooger]

20. I walked from USC campus to Olympic Auditorium to watch closed circuit of that fight

My friends thought I was nuts. It was walking on a Thursday night from one unsafe area to another. I didn't care at all. No way I was missing that fight.

Fight should be in parentheses. One of the downer moments of my life. That event was anticipated for months and all the reports out of Ali's camp were positive. As mentioned by the OP, Ali looked great physically but it was like a cupcake...glitzy on the outside but nothing of substance -- anymore -- underneath.

I remember I brought I notepad and pen to score the fight and take notes. I gave up during the third round. Instead I wrote, "Ali just an old man," and never wrote another word for the remainder as I watched in numbed silence.

Along with Ali my favorite boxer was Roy Jones Jr. That's another example of hanging far too long. Speed fighters decline more rapidly and fully than the brawler types. Jones could have been an all-time legend if he quit after the Ruiz fight. Instead he sadly kept going and now his reputation is below his actual ability.

I believe Roy Jones still holds the all-time record in terms of percentage of scored rounds won. If not, he did for a long time and it was a huge drop off to second place. But admittedly I haven't followed things like that in the past decade or so with some of the recent guys who fight maybe once every two years.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

21. Reflex fighters have a short shelf life.

The time for Ali to get out was after the Foreman fight. He was the world champ and had avenged his defeats to Frazier and Norton. There's an adage that old boxers don't paint great canvases, they end up on them.

Ahhh, he belongs to the ages.

[Awsi Dooger]

22. I thought Ali should have quit after Norton III or especially the Shavers fight

Norton III was a very controversial decision. I remember they had an hour-long primetime show on ABC a week or so later solely to analyze round by round. Many prominent panelists. They were split.

Then the Shavers fight Ali really got tagged by a looping right. I think that was second round. It seemed impossible he could hold on. Then he rebounded to win comfortably but I didn't like the looks of it. You could see the ominous potential. It wasn't an accumulation like the later rounds of Frazier I but normally Ali could always avoid punches like that.

I agree that ideally he would have quit after Foreman but it wasn't realistic. That elaborate Deer Lake training camp in Pennsylvania was only 2 years old. Ali had made a commitment to keep going and I think he viewed the Foreman fight as signal that he was a smarter fighter who could adapt to anything despite declining reflexes.

BTW, here is a photo from the Ali Museum in Louisville. Very extensive and impressive. I'm glad I visited before Ali died. I spent a full afternoon there in fall 2015:

https://imgur.com/a/y07RT26