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In reply to the discussion: ''Every seat in the theater in LA filled up so Bernie went outside to talk to the people ... '' [View all]Gothmog
(174,948 posts)536. Who cares?
Whataboutism does not work in the real world. Attempts to deflect blame are amusing. I posted two studies that show that sanders is the reason why trump is POTUS. Ignoring these facts will not make them go away nor will pointing fingers at other causes.
I am focusing on issues that can be addressed in the future
1. Voter suppression. GOP voter suppression cost Clinton Wisconsin https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/10/voter-suppression-wisconsin-election-2016/
Neil Albrecht, Milwaukees election director, believes that the voter ID law and other changes passed by the Republican Legislature contributed significantly to lower turnout. Albrecht is 55 but seems younger, with bookish tortoise-frame glasses and salt-and-pepper stubble. (I looked 12 until I became an election administrator, he joked.) At his office in City Hall with views of the Milwaukee River, Albrecht showed me a color-coded map of the citys districts, pointing out the ones where turnout had declined the most, including Anthonys. Next to his desk was a poster that listed Acceptable Forms of Photo ID.
I would estimate that 25 to 35 percent of the 41,000 decrease in voters, or somewhere between 10,000 and 15,000 voters, likely did not vote due to the photo ID requirement, he said later. It is very probable that between the photo ID law and the changes to voter registration, enough people were prevented from voting to have changed the outcome of the presidential election in Wisconsin.
A post-election study by Priorities USA, a Democratic super-PAC that supported Clinton, found that in 2016, turnout decreased by 1.7 percent in the three states that adopted stricter voter ID laws but increased by 1.3 percent in states where ID laws did not change. Wisconsins turnout dropped 3.3 percent. If Wisconsin had seen the same turnout increase as states whose laws stayed the same, we estimate that over 200,000 more voters would have voted in Wisconsin in 2016, the study said. These lost votersthose who voted in 2012 and 2014 but not 2016skewed more African American and more Democrat than the overall voting population. Some academics criticized the studys methodology, but its conclusions were consistent with a report from the Government Accountability Office, which found that strict voter ID laws in Kansas and Tennessee had decreased turnout by roughly 2 to 3 percent, with the largest drops among black, young, and new voters.
I would estimate that 25 to 35 percent of the 41,000 decrease in voters, or somewhere between 10,000 and 15,000 voters, likely did not vote due to the photo ID requirement, he said later. It is very probable that between the photo ID law and the changes to voter registration, enough people were prevented from voting to have changed the outcome of the presidential election in Wisconsin.
A post-election study by Priorities USA, a Democratic super-PAC that supported Clinton, found that in 2016, turnout decreased by 1.7 percent in the three states that adopted stricter voter ID laws but increased by 1.3 percent in states where ID laws did not change. Wisconsins turnout dropped 3.3 percent. If Wisconsin had seen the same turnout increase as states whose laws stayed the same, we estimate that over 200,000 more voters would have voted in Wisconsin in 2016, the study said. These lost votersthose who voted in 2012 and 2014 but not 2016skewed more African American and more Democrat than the overall voting population. Some academics criticized the studys methodology, but its conclusions were consistent with a report from the Government Accountability Office, which found that strict voter ID laws in Kansas and Tennessee had decreased turnout by roughly 2 to 3 percent, with the largest drops among black, young, and new voters.
I was part of the Clinton Victory Counsel program and nearly went to Wisconsin but ended up running the statewide voter protection hotline in Texas and the poll watcher program in Harris County. Harris County turned blue and one of the poll watchers who I trained in 2012 was elected to the office in charge of voter registration. This cycle we focus on getting rid on the teabagger who runs elections.
BTW, the courts are still considering the Wisconsin voter id law http://electionlawblog.org/?p=99266 In Texas we have largely gutted the voter id law but have to fight to make sure that voters get to vote.
2. Russia. I will let Mueller handle this but there is ample evidence that russia helped elect trump. http://money.cnn.com/2017/09/26/media/facebook-russia-ads/index.html
Senate Intelligence Committee chair Richard Burr, a Republican, told reporters Tuesday that the use of Facebook and other social media platforms by Russian-linked accounts appears to be about creating chaos on both ends of the political spectrum, not necessarily collusion between the Trump camp and Russian officials.
"Listen, I've said I don't think this is about collusion. Facebook is a company that most advertisers rely on Facebook's information to determine what the target is," Burr told reporters. "I think clearly there was an effort to bring some chaos to groups on the right and the left, so there's nothing that, at least preliminary, would lean toward one candidate versus the other. I think there was equal money sent trying to create some type of chaos on both sides of the political or ideological spectrum. We'll find more as we go in."
"Listen, I've said I don't think this is about collusion. Facebook is a company that most advertisers rely on Facebook's information to determine what the target is," Burr told reporters. "I think clearly there was an effort to bring some chaos to groups on the right and the left, so there's nothing that, at least preliminary, would lean toward one candidate versus the other. I think there was equal money sent trying to create some type of chaos on both sides of the political or ideological spectrum. We'll find more as we go in."
I note that the idiots on JPR fell for a ton of russian fake news. There were a ton of thread on pizzagate on JPR for a while. Sanders supporters were targeted by Russia and judging from the studies posted above with great effect
Link to tweet
Again, sanders supporters were easily fooled by russian fake news and the studies cited above show this cost the election
Link to tweet
3. Comey. Nate Silver has done some good work that shows that Comey cost Clinton the election https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-comey-letter-probably-cost-clinton-the-election/
Hillary Clinton would probably be president if FBI Director James Comey had not sent a letter to Congress on Oct. 28. The letter, which said the FBI had learned of the existence of emails that appear to be pertinent to the investigation into the private email server that Clinton used as secretary of state, upended the news cycle and soon halved Clintons lead in the polls, imperiling her position in the Electoral College.
4. Sanders and Stein voters. The studies cited above show that sanders cost the election. BTW, i was a delegate to the national convention. Sanders was not working hard for Clinton and in fact refused to try to stop his delegates from dong such things as booing Congressman John Lewis. These disruptions hurt the unity that one normally gets from a convention. For example, in 2008, Clinton conceded before the Texas state convention. In 2016 sanders waited until just before the convention and cause a ton of disruption. I was at the convention and sanders refusal to do his best to help Clinton was a factor.
I will continue working in the real world to deal with as many issues as possible. We had a full war room for both the primary and the primary run off for voter protection issues.
I am glad that ballot access laws should keep sanders from running again.
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''Every seat in the theater in LA filled up so Bernie went outside to talk to the people ... '' [View all]
Donkees
Jun 2018
OP
Congratulations George, you just won the 2018 Bernie Bashing Award in the catagory of...
InAbLuEsTaTe
Jun 2018
#210
Schumer and Gillibrand wouldn't go out to California to speak. They're too busy....
George II
Jun 2018
#513
Sanders is called "Bernie" by most of his constituents and ANY Vermonter who has the least
karynnj
Jun 2018
#574
Woohoo! Our two Senators are readily accessible too, and many of us are on a first name basis....
George II
Jun 2018
#580
If he's not concerned about the opppsition- why is he using the Dem party to help him? I'd have
bettyellen
Jun 2018
#310
But if he has no plans to run as a democrat? Isn't that rigging it? Seems so.
bettyellen
Jun 2018
#365
So running in a primary under a party banner you plan to leave is straightforward normal and honest?
bettyellen
Jun 2018
#371
I fell like it's a bait and switch thing, some people just vote Dem. I'd be pissed off.
bettyellen
Jun 2018
#527
Even an incumbent is not seen as an "official candidate" of the Democratic party
karynnj
Jun 2018
#469
Well it's progress that you can finally admit that my opinion is not going to harm your Senator.
ehrnst
Jun 2018
#506
The people of Vermont will choose the nominees in the primaries and the Senator in the general
karynnj
Jun 2018
#507
Are you saying that the Vermont Democratic establishment *didn't* select Bernie?
ehrnst
Jun 2018
#549
By simply having this arrangement, they show that they selected Bernie as the candidate.
ehrnst
Jun 2018
#568
The Vermont Democratic party is doing what is best for the Vermont Democratic party
karynnj
Jun 2018
#572
And they believe that making sure that Bernie is the official Democratic candidate
ehrnst
Jun 2018
#575
He is using the Democratic party in Vermont to exclude any Dem primary opponents.
ehrnst
Jun 2018
#461
If sanders runs in the Democratic primary and wins, then he needs to run in General election
Gothmog
Jun 2018
#501
Crowds alone can't win, but if a candidate can't draw good crowds, that's a bad sign.
Sophia4
Jun 2018
#535
In Anaheim, CA to advocate for a city ballot initiative requiring a higher minimum wage
EffieBlack
Jun 2018
#381
He was there to urge Anaheim residents to vote for a municipal ballot initiative affecting only them
EffieBlack
Jun 2018
#448
'We have one system of justice for the wealthy and another system for the poor and people of color.'
Donkees
Jun 2018
#2
Riiiight. Did he ever talk to the people who were actually inside waiting for him? And was there...
Hekate
Jun 2018
#7
The point is that everyone is talking about Medicare for All like it's Sanders'....
George II
Jun 2018
#287
Not to mention, iirc, that when LBJ got it through he intended people to love it so much for grandma
Hekate
Jun 2018
#317
No the point is someone is taking up the torch. someone with the visibility to give it a kick
LiberalLovinLug
Jun 2018
#324
No - he was voting for the crime bill and "speaking out" against things while others were doing the
EffieBlack
Jun 2018
#133
He "spoke out" - so what? He's a US senator. Did he DO anything besides promise
EffieBlack
Jun 2018
#150
Blaming Bernie for GOP obstruction of Obama's Supreme Court choice is libelous.
doxyluv13
Jun 2018
#208
Bernie, who ran for potus as a Dem, went on record SAYING he would ditch Garland if elected. WHY
Hekate
Jun 2018
#326
What's with the attacks on Obama ? He was President and many were Happy to have him there
JI7
Jun 2018
#398
Your damn right KPN, Bernie doesn't triangulate... and I, like millions of others, are
InAbLuEsTaTe
Jun 2018
#211
Wow, such venom towards Obama and Clinton. Somehow I'm not buying it's why you say though.
bettyellen
Jun 2018
#313
There are real life and death consequences when people are marginalized.
mountain grammy
Jun 2018
#375
You do realize that Sanders didn't support same sex marriage as recently as 2006, maybe even....
George II
Jun 2018
#399
The Russian trolls out a lot of energy into Bernie myths on FB and people still believe them today!
bettyellen
Jun 2018
#384
Same sex marriage is a states rights issue? Then why did the Supreme Court rule on it?
George II
Jun 2018
#402
Sanders is ok with individual, fundamental rights being upheld - or not - on a state by state basis?
EffieBlack
Jun 2018
#403
Tax returns, etc., this, that , the other. List is long, but folks ignore the long list of issues
Eliot Rosewater
Jun 2018
#467
To get onto the ballot in a number of blue states, sanders will have to file tax returns
Gothmog
Jun 2018
#477
FanFUCKINGtastic. Now EVERYBODY will start at first base. Wait, if that isnt
Eliot Rosewater
Jun 2018
#479
And yet, we don't have tuition-less public colleges and universities, universal healthcare
Sophia4
Jun 2018
#431
The LA Times reported that the rally was attended by "hundreds"! See my post #57
George II
Jun 2018
#58
Not only one of the whitest states, but a STATE with about one-quarter of the population of....
George II
Jun 2018
#120
Tammy Baldwin? Not a comparative example, she was born and grew up in Wisconsin.
George II
Jun 2018
#250
Ah, the ol' "moveable goal post" claim. The sub-discussion is that Sanders left a diverse....
George II
Jun 2018
#452
I just heard the open primary in CA might result in GOP winning, open primary
Eliot Rosewater
Jun 2018
#489
The Clintons have a long record of fighting for civil rights and strong relationships with the black
EffieBlack
Jun 2018
#318
So what? He still picked Harlem, instead of anyplace else in the state he could have gone
EffieBlack
Jun 2018
#524
Interesting that Bernie is so often held up as different and apart from other Senators because he's
EffieBlack
Jun 2018
#397
Who else is not being taken into account? When everyone but Sanders is accused of
ehrnst
Jun 2018
#442
So running in Vermont canceled all his work he did, and any cred he may have garnered before that?
LiberalLovinLug
Jun 2018
#123
I don't see how anyone is 'miliking' the time of his participation of his youth
LiberalLovinLug
Jun 2018
#330
If you don't think you are a "fan," then I probably wasn't talking about you.
EffieBlack
Jun 2018
#338
Really? How can has he "engage(d) in civil rights struggle" since the late 1960s? I've seen here..
George II
Jun 2018
#139
Not going to do much to help the poor oppressed masses and the plight of minorities...
George II
Jun 2018
#63
HAH! Near-unanimous, all 8,000 of them. There were more Blacks at the NY Mets game today!
George II
Jun 2018
#184
from a congressional seat? Really? From a senatorial seat? Those don't have reach
JCanete
Jun 2018
#201
No one said anyone's not "allowed" to do anything and no one accused anyone of racism
EffieBlack
Jun 2018
#159
Along with tax returns or the lack thereof and voting AGAINST russian sanctions I want to
Eliot Rosewater
Jun 2018
#554
No, he was a resident of NYC before he moved to Vermont. Anyone with an understanding....
George II
Jun 2018
#260
In 1970 there were 22,000 minority residents in Vermont, in NYC* there were 1,850,000.
George II
Jun 2018
#548
Wow, never thought of that before. Fits perfectly into what i KNOW though.
Eliot Rosewater
Jun 2018
#552
In all fairness, sheshe, the urge to find a simpler purer life was fairly widespread...
Hekate
Jun 2018
#344
And how did that "movement" work out? From what I can find, it died in the 1970s.
George II
Jun 2018
#92
I did read it, unless I missed it there's nothing noted since the 1970s. BTW...
George II
Jun 2018
#181
Yes, because his Democratic predecessor was a terrible person, even if his policies were better
karynnj
Jun 2018
#221
So does Maryland and Massachusetts. Ugh. For various reasons though it happens n/t
Tom Rinaldo
Jun 2018
#224
Yes, and Vermont has about one-quarter of the population of his hometown (and mine) of...
George II
Jun 2018
#112
He's had his share of votes AGAINST gun control legislation that might have stemmed the slaughter...
George II
Jun 2018
#118
If that's the case, British OR American, saying one is "mad" is saying she's "mentally disturbed".
George II
Jun 2018
#158
If a 55-year-old protest is relevant, his other choices during that time and since are also relevant
EffieBlack
Jun 2018
#285
Bernie has always been about classy... it's what makes him so damn appealing.
InAbLuEsTaTe
Jun 2018
#16
I find absolutely nothing appealing or classy about calling Democrats "ideologically bankrupt"...
NurseJackie
Jun 2018
#45
Being consistent matters to me. You can't pretend one side is taking money and the other isn't, or
JCanete
Jun 2018
#205
Thanks, and arent there a dozen or more similar attacks of the D party?
Eliot Rosewater
Jun 2018
#558
Every 1 in a while I have to take a break from seeing certain posters, but always eventually unblock
DRoseDARs
Jun 2018
#83
Oh I certainly understand. Sometimes individuals can be infuriating and it's best to block.
DRoseDARs
Jun 2018
#90
Neither Obama nor Clinton (are you refighting the primary perhaps?) would be "campaigning"....
George II
Jun 2018
#99
In a discussion about Sanders in 2018 you bring up Hillary Clinton. Me, projection? So....
George II
Jun 2018
#148
Bernie tellin' it like it is... another brillant appearance, showing why he is the most popular
InAbLuEsTaTe
Jun 2018
#11
.@SenSanders ends his speech with "no more jails, no more incarceration. Let's educate our children"
Donkees
Jun 2018
#22
That looks like it's indoors, what about your OP? Why don't you respond to questions....
George II
Jun 2018
#128
I know exactly how this works. You kick the thread, you kick my post and more people read it
EffieBlack
Jun 2018
#73
Why not? Maybe in your opinion it doesn't, but certainly in the opinion of many here...
George II
Jun 2018
#130
See it how you will. I'll take Sanders' honest critique of our economic-political system
KPN
Jun 2018
#388
Because no one knew about any of this before Bernie started talking about it ...
EffieBlack
Jun 2018
#390
He only learned about people being jailed for not affording tickets when he went to some sort of
bettyellen
Jun 2018
#320
In other words Soros is DOING something about those issues instead of just talking about them?
George II
Jun 2018
#88
He's been doing the right thing for 50+ years. No need to "evolve" like some politicians.
jalan48
Jun 2018
#80
He also criticized the nomination because he said he was too conservative and promised
EffieBlack
Jun 2018
#152
Bernie has always set an example for what it means to be a real advocate for change...
InAbLuEsTaTe
Jun 2018
#182
"Advocating" for change is great - but he's a U.S. Senator with the power to DO things
EffieBlack
Jun 2018
#185
Love what you said here grammy... you put it into words better than anyone could have
InAbLuEsTaTe
Jun 2018
#290
You got that right grammy! And cuz of your appreciation for, and defense of Bernie...
InAbLuEsTaTe
Jun 2018
#374
Don't say that to Bernie bashers, they might get upset and tell you, but Bernie is not a Democrat!
InAbLuEsTaTe
Jun 2018
#190
History shows that's what it takes to drive folks to the polls... not just buses.
InAbLuEsTaTe
Jun 2018
#192
Please name one Democratic politician who can draw the crowds that Bernie draws.
Sophia4
Jun 2018
#435
Rare indeed... why he has such a loyal following and his progressive ideals have taken hold.
InAbLuEsTaTe
Jun 2018
#84
Do you have anything other than that tweet? In fact, the LA Times has an article on the rally....
George II
Jun 2018
#57
And getting Democratic voters to the polls this coming Tuesday (primaries in California).
Sophia4
Jun 2018
#438
He has been a candidate for Congress, Senate or president for the past 30+ years
stevenleser
Jun 2018
#352
A bigger crowd than the LA Times' "hundreds". He and Jane PROMISED them by the end of April.....
George II
Jun 2018
#143
No one gave a shit about her emails because they read them AFTER SHE RELEASED THEM and saw there was
EffieBlack
Jun 2018
#170
We need "Pro-" anyone "news"? What's the definition of "Pro-xxxxx news"? News???
George II
Jun 2018
#135
Yeah, that is the purpose of this site to promote liberals and Liberalism!
LostOne4Ever
Jun 2018
#176
You know it! Bernie embodies the progressive spirit that drew me to DU many years ago.
InAbLuEsTaTe
Jun 2018
#194
I'm not sure why so many on DU talk about Bernie so much. He ditched the Democratic Party the
catbyte
Jun 2018
#147
NEWS FLASH! That photograph posted by Mr. Rabin-Havt appears to be FAKE!!! Sanders appeared...
George II
Jun 2018
#174
Lol. He spoke at the church and then at The Million Dollar Theater in LA. Back to the drawing board.
Hassin Bin Sober
Jun 2018
#207
The tweet was posted shortly after 5:00 PM local time, the Million Dollar Theater rally...
George II
Jun 2018
#464
The only distortion of reality is claiming the church rally is the theater rally.
Hassin Bin Sober
Jun 2018
#378
Sanders was also at the Million Dollar theater in L.A. at 5 PM according to what I found online
nini
Jun 2018
#355
There are reasons Bernie Sanders has a lot of supporters around the country.
democrank
Jun 2018
#214
Russian Trolls like to create conflict in the Democratic Party by attacking Bernie
LostOne4Ever
Jun 2018
#215
I'm over in Vermont about every day and can even get the lone Trumphumper I know to admit
Vinca
Jun 2018
#226
Some of his Ideas are Good for a Democracy where Social Justic Supports Social Democracy ...
Civic Justice
Jun 2018
#228
Bringing up Bernie sure seems to cause a lot of discord here - does that mean Bernie is "divisive"
EffieBlack
Jun 2018
#274
This is the Justice Reform Rally at the Million Dollar Theater. There were several events that day
Donkees
Jun 2018
#329
So, if I wanted to find a list of his major legislative accomplishments, where would I look?
NurseJackie
Jun 2018
#336
GOP voter suppression, Russia, Stein, Sanders, Comey and others bear a great deal of the blame
Gothmog
Jun 2018
#520
Clinton is not going to run again and so the attempt by sanders supporter to deflect amuse me
Gothmog
Jun 2018
#546
It cant be clearer who contributed to her loss. Yet, many so called progressives wont hear it.
Eliot Rosewater
Jun 2018
#559
I mentioned somewhere that I frequent a youtube chat for a progressive talker
Eliot Rosewater
Jun 2018
#565
Well worth his time. About twenty percent of them will vote for him in the primary.
NCTraveler
Jun 2018
#466
Oh, Sanders' "arrest story". Wow! He was held in a gymnasium with dozens of others....
George II
Jun 2018
#511