General Discussion

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)

37. Can you explain to me...

Reply to Odin2005 (Reply #24)

Wed Sep 12, 2012, 07:20 AM

Sep 2012

Why DU'ers can on the one hand demand public employees have absolutely no right whatsoever to free speech, and on the other hand rally to the defense of such paragons as the KKK, Neo-nazis, and this fucking film's right to that very same "freedom of speech"?

I figure it's because a sizable number of DU'ers are, heart and soul, extreme fucking bigots who want to make their hate look progressive. I could be wrong, maybe it's just a bunch of very, VERY stupid people falling over themselves to see who can go the furthest out on a limb to defend the worst things they can possibly find.

At any rate, you're defending a film that posits one point five human beings on the planet are inherently subhuman monsters and scum, that the world would be better-off without.

So... good for you.

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Not liking an offensive movie is not an excuse to riot and kill people. [View all] Odin2005 Sep 2012 OP

No, but I think the guy who made this is also responsible for the rioting and deaths. cali Sep 2012 #1

Being offended by a movie is no excuse. Odin2005 Sep 2012 #7

True! JDPriestly Sep 2012 #43

See post #138; greiner3 Sep 2012 #143

I can understand demonstrating against a movie -- but killing someone and getting completely JDPriestly Sep 2012 #165

Define "civilised" Spider Jerusalem Sep 2012 #45

I have no use for cultural relativism, sorry. Odin2005 Sep 2012 #48

That's a nice idea, but in principle, it doesn't work that way Spider Jerusalem Sep 2012 #57

The "blasphemy" horseshit almost got a Pakistani girl with Down's Syndrome lynched. Odin2005 Sep 2012 #60

Sure, and it got one of my ancestors burned at the stake in the reign of Bloody Mary Tudor Spider Jerusalem Sep 2012 #67

+1000 (nt) ehrnst Sep 2012 #107

We'll just have to bomb them to the stone age until they modernize! Scootaloo Sep 2012 #124

So, a US female politician would bear responsibility for getting raped over there joeglow3 Sep 2012 #125

You notice, noody is blaming the victim here, right? Scootaloo Sep 2012 #132

Nobody said that treestar Sep 2012 #199

I agree. However, I was essentially called a supporter of rape for your sentiment just yesterday joeglow3 Sep 2012 #245

so MrDiaz Sep 2012 #223

Thank you, agree 100% get the red out Sep 2012 #118

Well if that's the case maybe we should just take their fucking Internet away... snooper2 Sep 2012 #108

How so? tama Sep 2012 #78

Do those same 'human rights' apply to the estimated 500,000 Iraqi children who coalition_unwilling Sep 2012 #135

Those sactions were wrong. Odin2005 Sep 2012 #227

To deliberately incite violence using cultural hotpoints is wrong. ehrnst Sep 2012 #136

There's also the fact that they have just been through intense violence loyalsister Sep 2012 #174

i think MrDiaz Sep 2012 #229

Number one priority is the safety of those associated with the embassy BanzaiBonnie Sep 2012 #252

Funny how you distort my post loyalsister Sep 2012 #268

nobody MrDiaz Sep 2012 #222

Well said. n/t Summer Hathaway Sep 2012 #271

If people rioted after MIB 3 in Illinois, then you'd have a point. ehrnst Sep 2012 #127

+1 nt. polly7 Sep 2012 #176

if i went MrDiaz Sep 2012 #272

How about "Jud Süss" - that sort of got people offended enough to kill ehrnst Sep 2012 #162

Religious fundamentalists of three religions caused this, Islamic, Christian and Jewish Cleita Sep 2012 #225

No. The fucknuts who are rioting and killing over a stupid little half-assed film Codeine Sep 2012 #8

Yup, the "what what you say" crap just plays into RW talking points... Odin2005 Sep 2012 #26

Not really. The RW should be held accountable for their hate speech too. Tigress DEM Sep 2012 #86

+1 get the red out Sep 2012 #120

So you are against laws that say you can't yell "FIRE!" in a crowded theater? Tigress DEM Sep 2012 #69

That's a really stupid analogy. JVS Sep 2012 #115

If you walk into a Jewish funeral dressed as a Nazi and yelling Heil Hitler - ehrnst Sep 2012 #119

How about finding an actual example leftynyc Sep 2012 #147

Difference between Analogy and Example.... ehrnst Sep 2012 #151

The fucknuts that made this film wanted this to happen - intended for violence to happen. ehrnst Sep 2012 #116

One doubts the synagogue attendees Codeine Sep 2012 #175

Mostly agree dbackjon Sep 2012 #149

No it's not. It's a fucking MOVIE. That made fun of some dead dude. (nt) Nye Bevan Sep 2012 #171

But whoever made the film knew that it could happen treestar Sep 2012 #200

They bear the responsibility for their own Codeine Sep 2012 #212

Nope. drm604 Sep 2012 #13

+ Infinity! Odin2005 Sep 2012 #31

I don't know... a geek named Bob Sep 2012 #63

I strongly disagree. Lizzie Poppet Sep 2012 #128

"insane, superstitious vermin" - why am I flashing back to 1930s Germany? I almost coalition_unwilling Sep 2012 #137

Sure: Lizzie Poppet Sep 2012 #168

PS: Lizzie Poppet Sep 2012 #170

PPS: In the twenties and the thirties in Germany, the Nazis routinely referred to the Jews as coalition_unwilling Sep 2012 #179

So you're saying that all of the Jews in 1920's and 1930's Germany... eqfan592 Sep 2012 #187

You know who compared Jews to murderers? Dr. Strange Sep 2012 #202

PPPS: Lizzie Poppet Sep 2012 #195

PPPPS: Dehumanizing people by calling them 'vermin' is but one step on the road to exterminating coalition_unwilling Sep 2012 #215

Ah, not content to call me a Nazi, you do a little doubling down of you own... Lizzie Poppet Sep 2012 #246

Little history lesson for you: during the Tet offensive of January 1968, forces coalition_unwilling Sep 2012 #253

You should quit while you're behind. Lizzie Poppet Sep 2012 #254

You keep erecting straw men out of my words, and then knocking them down. I nowhere coalition_unwilling Sep 2012 #257

Oh God, the irony! Lizzie Poppet Sep 2012 #260

I tend to think the people responsible are responsible 4th law of robotics Sep 2012 #139

This is so wrong.... WeRQ4U Sep 2012 #155

I did - the movie was fucked up, but that's no excuse for murder. n/t backscatter712 Sep 2012 #194

I think he's responsible Dorian Gray Sep 2012 #274

And commenting about a provocative, hateful film is not giving an excuse..it's making an observation nanabugg Sep 2012 #2

Much of the world does not understand freedom of speech like we do. liberal N proud Sep 2012 #3

wrong analogy graham4anything Sep 2012 #4

Human rights, including freedom of speech, are universal. Odin2005 Sep 2012 #9

makes me wonder if a repubteapartylibertarian sympathizer set this up graham4anything Sep 2012 #15

also, are you saying in the name of human rights we should bomb them in revenge? graham4anything Sep 2012 #17

Where the fuck did I say I wanted to bomb them in revenge? Odin2005 Sep 2012 #29

apologies, you didn't I was attempting a corrolation aand i self edited the above graham4anything Sep 2012 #110

Apology accepted. Odin2005 Sep 2012 #231

You fucking know better than that. Codeine Sep 2012 #71

What a nasty thing to say to another DUer Marrah_G Sep 2012 #82

but I didn't say it as a personal, I said it as a corrolation (a leads to b is c) graham4anything Sep 2012 #89

You absolutely did make it personal to that poster. Marrah_G Sep 2012 #97

no problem don't sweat the small stuff graham4anything Sep 2012 #101

That's a non-apology apology Marrah_G Sep 2012 #105

I edited the post, to delete it would make the five other posts weird graham4anything Sep 2012 #117

I am glad you editted it Marrah_G Sep 2012 #123

Not in Libya for the last few decades jberryhill Sep 2012 #205

Is there anyone, ANYONE on DU who is saying otherwise? That doesn't mean those stoking the violence hlthe2b Sep 2012 #5

Remember the rioting over the offensive Mohammed cartoons? Odin2005 Sep 2012 #11

The Middle East is not the United States. We might like to asert our views and philosophy on them... hlthe2b Sep 2012 #16

That is a dangerous slope you are rolling on. Odin2005 Sep 2012 #24

Can you explain to me... Scootaloo Sep 2012 #37

When did I say public employees have no right to free speech? Odin2005 Sep 2012 #44

It's a question about DU in general, sorry if there's a misunderstanding. Scootaloo Sep 2012 #93

It's a law restricting our GOVERNMENT. The entire GOVERNMENT. cleanhippie Sep 2012 #185

I agree, the film is tasteless, but Biafran Sep 2012 #51

Nobody's said it's justified. Ever. Scootaloo Sep 2012 #94

What do you mean by "demand public employees have absolutely no right whatsoever to free speech"? cleanhippie Sep 2012 #184

Hate speech that incites violence NOT protected. Try calling for harming the President, if you doubt hlthe2b Sep 2012 #40

Make a similar film attacking Christianity and there would not be riots. Odin2005 Sep 2012 #46

We have a Republican official calling for acid attacks on female DNC Senators today... hlthe2b Sep 2012 #50

This is different. Biafran Sep 2012 #56

Question Violet_Crumble Sep 2012 #83

The worst reaction I remember The Last Temptation of Christ getting deutsey Sep 2012 #62

Please tell that to Dr. Tiller's family mountain grammy Sep 2012 #146

Also our OWN protests against a film like this say, "NOT IN OUR NAME" Tigress DEM Sep 2012 #95

"Universal rights" tama Sep 2012 #84

Although I wouldn't label it as either necessarily religious nor dangerous, I do agree that LanternWaste Sep 2012 #159

Actually it is not a dangerous slope! It's understanding nadinbrzezinski Sep 2012 #173

I stopped reading when you mentioned "Black Athena". Odin2005 Sep 2012 #240

Your prerrogative to ignore how the rest of the world lives nadinbrzezinski Sep 2012 #249

Frteeedom of speech is a universal human right AS WEE SEE IT. It is not international law. at all. robinlynne Sep 2012 #235

People do not have a right not to be offended in a free society thankyou.ive been saying this 4ever leftyohiolib Sep 2012 #21

we often cite Darwin's Law, yes?. LanternWaste Sep 2012 #152

We all have a right not to be murdered treestar Sep 2012 #203

Exactly. Tigress DEM Sep 2012 #96

Isn't censoring ourselves in response to irrational violence 4th law of robotics Sep 2012 #141

Held to account for what? bighart Sep 2012 #156

Are you fluent in English? "Held to account" does not refer only to legal ramifications... hlthe2b Sep 2012 #161

In what way would you "hold them to account" for practicing bighart Sep 2012 #163

Denunciation is the first step. Not defend under the guise of a 'free speech' argument... hlthe2b Sep 2012 #164

I have not seen the film in question so I have no point of reference for judgement on it. bighart Sep 2012 #166

It is possible to both denouce the message AND support free speech, at the same time. cleanhippie Sep 2012 #186

Unless you mean to acuse those who are denouncing this ugly, bigoted, inciting filmaker of NOT hlthe2b Sep 2012 #193

Will you apply the same standard to Salman Rushdie? Or the Danish cartoonist? cleanhippie Sep 2012 #197

Have you even bothered to see the promotional video? Give me a break. Hate DOES incite. hlthe2b Sep 2012 #206

It didn't incite me. cleanhippie Sep 2012 #210

I would hope not. But, I can not deal with your defending hate speech and bigotry hlthe2b Sep 2012 #219

"I can not deal with your defending hate speech and bigotry, so I am done." You dropped this... cleanhippie Sep 2012 #220

And you have taken every opportunity afforded by a so-called "free speech" argument to hlthe2b Sep 2012 #224

When your argument fails, resort to personal attacks. cleanhippie Sep 2012 #228

In the same way that tea partiers will see these riots CJCRANE Sep 2012 #6

So you missed the past 10 years of Middle East occupation? Earth_First Sep 2012 #10

So you are saying Libyans and Egyptians are too stupid to see the difference... Odin2005 Sep 2012 #12

this was a few people graham4anything Sep 2012 #18

Actually it was one guy, who fired a rocket Scootaloo Sep 2012 #32

Do you seriously think that the Muslims who rioted saw the film? JDPriestly Sep 2012 #52

"No excuse at all" Scootaloo Sep 2012 #76

Nearly everyone on DU agrees that there is no excuse for murder. Iraq was, for example, JDPriestly Sep 2012 #167

Well in Egypt choice sections of it were on major news channels nadinbrzezinski Sep 2012 #217

Just like we're too stupid to see the difference ... JustABozoOnThisBus Sep 2012 #23

This might help to explain this to you nadinbrzezinski Sep 2012 #211

this was not libya govt, but people reacting. so we can no more place the blame on libya govt than seabeyond Sep 2012 #14

And it is likely that this is a phoney incident ginned up by some intelligence agency... rfranklin Sep 2012 #20

i never go into making it something i do not know.... but, yes. there are people that backed this seabeyond Sep 2012 #33

Its like the morons in the repubteapartylibertarians taking guns to town hall graham4anything Sep 2012 #19

right. intentionally lighting a powder keg isn't right either. this is why piratefish08 Sep 2012 #22

That statement is true as seen from within our culture HereSince1628 Sep 2012 #25

Cultural relativism can go fuck itself. Odin2005 Sep 2012 #27

This. Brickbat Sep 2012 #28

LOL, HereSince1628 Sep 2012 #70

YES IT CAN! get the red out Sep 2012 #121

Except that it does not and people work witihn the values nadinbrzezinski Sep 2012 #214

Either human rights are universal or else slavery and female genital mutilation is OK. Odin2005 Sep 2012 #234

Logic? tama Sep 2012 #247

Yup, more extensive response nadinbrzezinski Sep 2012 #251

That declaration would look very different if drafted by the Cherokee nation! For example nadinbrzezinski Sep 2012 #250

"Cultural relativism" or "localism" tama Sep 2012 #256

Exactly, but the teaching in American schools that cultural relativism is bunk nadinbrzezinski Sep 2012 #258

I've heard tama Sep 2012 #259

All empires before they die do that nadinbrzezinski Sep 2012 #262

Why did Americans think Iraq had anything to do with 9/11? Scootaloo Sep 2012 #30

Propanganda. Richard Engel just reported that people in the Middle East were told that... polichick Sep 2012 #34

And the truth is that the film will be ignored by most. It isn't the sort of thing that would JDPriestly Sep 2012 #58

You have to ask who was behind the big lie that it was a major film... polichick Sep 2012 #61

And then there were the revelations in the New York Times about the memos prior to 9/11. JDPriestly Sep 2012 #169

one can NOT yell fire in a theatre or incite a riot graham4anything Sep 2012 #35

In a reasonable society this would not incite a riot. Odin2005 Sep 2012 #53

The film maker allegedly wanted this outcome graham4anything Sep 2012 #65

Doesn't matter what outcome he wanted Marrah_G Sep 2012 #75

so you agree we apologize and don't start bombing them, right? graham4anything Sep 2012 #87

No we do not apologize and no we don't bomb them Marrah_G Sep 2012 #98

and apology like a hug is good graham4anything Sep 2012 #100

In this case our country has not done anything to apologize for Marrah_G Sep 2012 #112

an apology never hurt anyone and its free graham4anything Sep 2012 #126

Are you saying the USA is a reasonable society? malokvale77 Sep 2012 #109

Have you seen the movie? JDPriestly Sep 2012 #64

The film maker did not murder anyone Marrah_G Sep 2012 #74

Of course you can "yell fire" in a theatre. NYC Liberal Sep 2012 #160

I killed four people myself after I saw Leonard Part 6. Ian David Sep 2012 #36

I LOL'd. Brickbat Sep 2012 #41

This is more an issue of Fox-like manipulation of the masses... MANative Sep 2012 #38

Now there will be a whole lot of people who are going to see it to figure out what this is about. dkf Sep 2012 #88

no, it's not. But there is such a thing as recognizing the predictable consequences of one's actions Douglas Carpenter Sep 2012 #39

+1000 nt bunnies Sep 2012 #47

We all hear speech we don't like Marrah_G Sep 2012 #79

Apparently there was a rumor spread that the movie sufrommich Sep 2012 #42

What if it isn't about the movie? eridani Sep 2012 #49

Yep - this didn't happen in a vacuum. Much like the Rodney King riots were not about Rodney ehrnst Sep 2012 #103

When you toss a can of gasoline into a bed of hot coals ehrnst Sep 2012 #54

Should americans give up their right to free speech? Marrah_G Sep 2012 #81

Yelling fire in a crowded theatre will get you in trouble ehrnst Sep 2012 #90

So which part of your freedom of speech are you willing to give up? Marrah_G Sep 2012 #92

hateful speech IS bad. robinlynne Sep 2012 #237

It is bad- it is not illegal Marrah_G Sep 2012 #248

I don't know that you would have a fire..pretty much need an open flame for gasoline to ignite snooper2 Sep 2012 #114

It's not about religion or the movie. It's about INCITING A RIOT on purpose. Tigress DEM Sep 2012 #55

Those who purposely incited should have been arrested after the last... polichick Sep 2012 #66

YES. It's been a known deterrant for the misuse of freedom of speech. Tigress DEM Sep 2012 #91

Because... Javaman Sep 2012 #59

I tend not to take much stock in the reasons that the MSM gives for these things KurtNYC Sep 2012 #68

Obviously it is, because that's what happens. tama Sep 2012 #72

Terry Jones Dove World Outreach Center, Gainesville FL marions ghost Sep 2012 #73

Yes, but it was a completely predictable outcome. Iggo Sep 2012 #77

the people who riot & caused death BigD_95 Sep 2012 #80

No one is making excuses ehrnst Sep 2012 #102

I completely agree. bklyncowgirl Sep 2012 #85

As I understand it they, the mob, was lied to by their jp11 Sep 2012 #99

because that is what mobs do. Also, who are "these folks". Is it the entire populous? I doubt it, still_one Sep 2012 #104

The audacity of some people to... 99Forever Sep 2012 #106

What is their worldview? Alduin Sep 2012 #183

As if... 99Forever Sep 2012 #192

I can agree with you but riverbendviewgal Sep 2012 #111

Yes get the red out Sep 2012 #129

Amazing what a short memory we have citizen blues Sep 2012 #113

While I agree with what you say... Javaman Sep 2012 #122

employs terrorist by proxy to do their dirty work as a means to an end Corgigal Sep 2012 #243

You think they care if you think there's an excuse? Anthony McCarthy Sep 2012 #130

Just catching up with all this between meetings this morning. woodsprite Sep 2012 #131

Some Neo-Con, I would guess. Odin2005 Sep 2012 #238

Not an excuse Proud Liberal Dem Sep 2012 #133

This is about power relationships -- not hurt feelings starroute Sep 2012 #134

Your OP is so offensive; greiner3 Sep 2012 #138

What, pray tell, is so offensive about it? LAGC Sep 2012 #145

How is the OP offensive? Alduin Sep 2012 #181

So you think the Danish cartoonist who made those Mohammed cartoons... Odin2005 Sep 2012 #236

Believe it or not pecwae Sep 2012 #273

My whole point has been the creator needs to answer for it instead of hide... Blue_Tires Sep 2012 #140

Is there an excuse for deliberately provoking dangerous fanatics? 6000eliot Sep 2012 #142

It is no excuse, however when you KNOW THIS WILL HAPPEN WHY DO IT? NotThisTime Sep 2012 #144

I don't know what motivates them Enrique Sep 2012 #148

my understanding is barbtries Sep 2012 #150

Yeah, these Islamist fanatics weren't even a major part of the Arab Spring. LAGC Sep 2012 #158

of course. barbtries Sep 2012 #172

Oh it won't -- I have faith in Obama to offer a measured response. LAGC Sep 2012 #178

not "could" be barbtries Sep 2012 #198

WTF?!?!? citizen blues Sep 2012 #213

Wow, whoa, easy there tiger!! LAGC Sep 2012 #216

Because maybe they don't have the same access to information that we do.(nt) ehrnst Sep 2012 #153

Because that's what they were told jberryhill Sep 2012 #154

Interesting point. Odin2005 Sep 2012 #239

In the long run, yes jberryhill Sep 2012 #241

Maybe they saw Michelle Bachmann on one of her rants about Muslim conspiracies? ehrnst Sep 2012 #157

Uh, maybe because the films says certain kinds do violence & then certain kinds do violence . . . ? patrice Sep 2012 #177

K&R Alduin Sep 2012 #180

agreed. religious crazies who murder people rollin74 Sep 2012 #182

. . . on cue, perhaps. nt patrice Sep 2012 #189

Why do folks in the USA think Iraq had anything to do with 9/11? nt raccoon Sep 2012 #188

There are bloody hands on BOTH SIDES. Not just one. (nt) ehrnst Sep 2012 #190

Make that ALL sides: recall why bin Laden went to Afghanistan & why, for decades, the U.S. patrice Sep 2012 #207

True - I'm addressing the filmmakers and the rioters in this thread ehrnst Sep 2012 #218

I'm suggesting that the filmmakers & the rioters could be in collusion. How was the film financed? patrice Sep 2012 #221

I'm thinking that Terry Jones wouldn't involve himself with any Muslims ehrnst Sep 2012 #226

Maybe not he, but who would benefit from making Muslims or Islam look bad? patrice Sep 2012 #232

i.e. there're more than 2 sides & at least some of those sides change back-and-forth with others. nt patrice Sep 2012 #208

To answer your question: Because they see no difference between the US Government and Israel 1-Old-Man Sep 2012 #191

No one said it is treestar Sep 2012 #196

So if I draw satirical cartoons bighart Sep 2012 #209

Don't forget... SoapBox Sep 2012 #201

Because state-sponsored media is all they know jberryhill Sep 2012 #204

The film had nothing to do with it. former9thward Sep 2012 #230

why? for thousands of reasons, historical and actual. robinlynne Sep 2012 #233

libya was not a reaction to the movie, it was a deliberate strike, not reactionary. Egypt was. larkrake Sep 2012 #242

There is an obvious clear difference between us the them. L0oniX Sep 2012 #244

Inciting violence in such a volatile part of the world felix_numinous Sep 2012 #255

Because IT MADE MY INVISIBLE FRIEND IN THE SKY MAD! Warren DeMontague Sep 2012 #261

Why? SoCalDem Sep 2012 #263

True, and calling another culture's prophet a child molester quaker bill Sep 2012 #264

He is a Christian, and the trailor starts with a woman opening her legs. robinlynne Sep 2012 #265

who is saying it is? fascisthunter Sep 2012 #266

If folks can't deal with freedom of speech or believe they have the right not to be offended TheKentuckian Sep 2012 #267

What if your team wins a Championship? progressoid Sep 2012 #269

We roundly condemn them, while wearing comfortable shoes. U4ikLefty Sep 2012 #270