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Celerity

(53,669 posts)

123. strawmen, AOC is not running in WV, she did not campaign on 'defund the police', and she is

Fri Nov 13, 2020, 12:58 AM

Nov 2020

not the one who is starting a foodfight in public. That would be the centrists. Manchin, instead of attacking by using RW MEMES, should instead be pointing out that NONE of what ANY Dem campaigned on is 'socialism', and should stop trying to tie our elected officials to platforms they did not run on, which is yet another RW meme he is giving life to.

I love how it is always a one-way street when talking about geographical areas. WV is nationalised as somehow the model all the party has to doff the cap to, and NYC/California, etc are shit on. Running off the left quarter to third of the party via these constant centrist attacks on anything to the left of Klobuchar (for example, I am not picking on her, just using her as a baseline) will result in electoral disaster for the Party as a whole.

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AOC giving Joe Manchin the death stare over "defund the police" [View all] True Dough Nov 2020 OP

The Democratic Party is a "Big Tent!" MyOwnPeace Nov 2020 #1

On the other hand some Democrats think our tent is "too big".... George II Nov 2020 #58

He wants what done to his butt? johnp3907 Nov 2020 #2

Rip it's WA-03 Democrat Nov 2020 #63

Manchin is not helping us ... at all. Laelth Nov 2020 #3

Sure he is. AOC would get eaten alive in West Virginia. And the slogan "defund the police" pnwmom Nov 2020 #13

That's why republicans laid it in us. CincyDem Nov 2020 #24

I don't think "defund the police" began as a Republican slogan, though. pnwmom Nov 2020 #76

How do you propose to control Bettie Nov 2020 #177

AOC and other politicians can control their own mouths and tweets. You can support BLM pnwmom Nov 2020 #182

He's the best we can do in WV. Laelth Nov 2020 #29

Yes, people on the left did come up with that slogan. pnwmom Nov 2020 #79

it actually goes back long before that, W. E. B. Du Bois, Black Reconstruction in America (1935) Celerity Nov 2020 #139

Well, to that end New York City has already "defunded the police", i.e., remove the white... George II Nov 2020 #163

Number of Black Patrol Cops Falls as NYPD Upper Ranks Remain Majority White Celerity Nov 2020 #164

Correct. And that will change over time, too. The upper ranks are the people who have been there... George II Nov 2020 #165

Love your comments, Laelth. SophieJean Nov 2020 #100

Thank you. n/t Laelth Nov 2020 #175

perfectly stated Celerity Nov 2020 #126

Well said Laelth! Bettie Nov 2020 #179

What you said Hekate Nov 2020 #47

Even the one that originally insisted on "defund the police" recognizes that what NYC did... George II Nov 2020 #61

Exactly, seems like there's a purity-test rush to the furthest left among some, but it kills us in Alhena Nov 2020 #68

the main purity test I see is centrists/conservatives (Manchin self-labelled as one) only need apply Celerity Nov 2020 #124

100% zebrapa Nov 2020 #101

I know. Why they can't call themselves FDR Democrats or something similar pnwmom Nov 2020 #110

strawmen, AOC is not running in WV, she did not campaign on 'defund the police', and she is Celerity Nov 2020 #123

She didn't campaign on that, she just provided ready-made quotes pnwmom Nov 2020 #129

I have said many times they need to ditch the dem soc false label, it is my main beef with AOC Celerity Nov 2020 #130

We are completely on the same page on this, Celerity. pnwmom Nov 2020 #137

AOC is savvy enough that she has been sliding away from it, but Bernie and the (thankfully there are Celerity Nov 2020 #138

Excellent post, very informative.... Spazito Nov 2020 #185

Spot on. Sanders and AOC made a mistake calling themselves... brush Nov 2020 #152

My favourite quote about American politics: anamnua Nov 2020 #181

+1000 Celerity Nov 2020 #187

And it'll probably always be that way as republicans keep reenforcing. brush Nov 2020 #205

We are ready for socialism. We have had elements of socialism for over a century. Cuthbert Allgood Nov 2020 #190

I agree we have elements of socialism like social security and medicare... brush Nov 2020 #207

She has declared herself a democratic socialist though. brush Nov 2020 #144

I already addressed that at length, and yes, she needs to distance herself from it fully Celerity Nov 2020 #148

I know. They are not "the state owns the means of production"... brush Nov 2020 #153

all good!! cheers Celerity Nov 2020 #154

Hear! Hear! n/t Laelth Nov 2020 #176

We have a minority in terms of the Senate. We need every Senate seat we can get...a GOP would Demsrule86 Nov 2020 #14

He has already declared his allegiance to McConnell and the GOP agenda. Laelth Nov 2020 #18

Point to a key Democratic vote he didn't support. brooklynite Nov 2020 #40

So far, he has been a good team player. Laelth Nov 2020 #54

We need his presence or we have no chance for a majority regardless of what happen in Georgia. Demsrule86 Nov 2020 #42

Yes. We get nothing without the Senate. sheshe2 Nov 2020 #35

He did and that was a big risk for him. Demsrule86 Nov 2020 #43

It was, Demsrule. sheshe2 Nov 2020 #65

I like Joe Manchin and what some don't get is by saying he will block the court expansion and Demsrule86 Nov 2020 #80

+ to all you said. sheshe2 Nov 2020 #97

Thank you sheshe. Demsrule86 Nov 2020 #102

We also get nothing without progressive votes in the house, so best not to alienate them. vsrazdem Nov 2020 #64

How so? sheshe2 Nov 2020 #70

Tell that to Joe Manchin. vsrazdem Nov 2020 #117

Your response is not a response. sheshe2 Nov 2020 #118

Exactly. People have differences of opinions. vsrazdem Nov 2020 #121

+1 melman Nov 2020 #119

I guess it is up to them if they want to stop all legislation that is possible. There will have Demsrule86 Nov 2020 #84

No he voted for Kavanaugh Dem4Life1102 Nov 2020 #178

We need Manchin in order to have a 50 50 Senate... take a look at the 50 Demsrule86 Nov 2020 #23

Sure. Laelth Nov 2020 #50

Yep - sit back and shut up! MyOwnPeace Nov 2020 #69

He caucuses with us thus he helps us...again without him, we have no chance for the Senate. Demsrule86 Nov 2020 #30

I hear that. I do. Laelth Nov 2020 #37

There are no more.I want more too...the only time we had a 60 person majority, the numbers included Demsrule86 Nov 2020 #52

Others would be similar to Manchin if they are in red states. It's the people of the states you JI7 Nov 2020 #85

I definitely do not understand WV. Laelth Nov 2020 #162

Post removed Post removed Nov 2020 #4

I'm unable to say what I'd like to for fear of running afoul of DU rules. Doremus Nov 2020 #5

If looks could kill. njhoneybadger Nov 2020 #6

This guy is a pandering jackoff. He kacekwl Nov 2020 #7

It doesn't matter what "defund the police" is INTENDED to mean. It's a terrible slogan, pnwmom Nov 2020 #15

Yes it is and I expect it cost us seats. Demsrule86 Nov 2020 #20

+1 doc03 Nov 2020 #28

But no candidate used it moose65 Nov 2020 #33

Not true... George II Nov 2020 #62

That was her answer to a question about it, I'm sure moose65 Nov 2020 #78

Said by the highest profile freshman rep did a lot of damage caber09 Nov 2020 #82

In case you haven't noticed, the R's frequently use AOC as their boogeyman, so when she added pnwmom Nov 2020 #83

Republicans will do what they do moose65 Nov 2020 #86

WE aren't buying into that baloney. But millions of Democrats and Independents pnwmom Nov 2020 #95

Unfortunately no. From her campaign website: George II Nov 2020 #87

from the article Celerity Nov 2020 #161

So you support SROs? Cuthbert Allgood Nov 2020 #191

I wish you would present the actual quotes where I said any of that. Thank you! George II Nov 2020 #194

Stop saying no one said..AOC said it herself caber09 Nov 2020 #77

I didn't say no one "said" it moose65 Nov 2020 #81

Pretty sure Omar and Tliab also supported defund the police too caber09 Nov 2020 #88

And they won re-election, right? moose65 Nov 2020 #93

They won in deep blue districts any of us would win in them lol caber09 Nov 2020 #96

Joe Manchin would surely not win in Ilhan Omar's district, or AOC's. aidbo Nov 2020 #106

Manchin would win more places than the squad would please stop kidding yourself, they cost us... caber09 Nov 2020 #107

This message was self-deleted by its author RandiFan1290 Nov 2020 #147

I have to agree - it was not a slogan that Democrats used. George II Nov 2020 #98

AOC literally used it and has it on her website caber09 Nov 2020 #99

This will be the 12584th time this will be repeated on this board... Ferrets are Cool Nov 2020 #39

Yes it is. kacekwl Nov 2020 #74

Defunding the police means something very different than what you might think in a red Demsrule86 Nov 2020 #22

No one is waiting for explanations or nuance ever. So come up EllieBC Nov 2020 #45

A Democratic Senator is a "pandering jackoff"? REALLY???? George II Nov 2020 #66

+++ sheshe2 Nov 2020 #103

Yup. He is. Cuthbert Allgood Nov 2020 #193

I wouldn't have posted what I did if I thought that. George II Nov 2020 #196

So which specific policies/stances of his do you support? Cuthbert Allgood Nov 2020 #197

I support the fact that he's a Democrat and he wins Senate elections in West Virginia... George II Nov 2020 #198

He votes with Trump about 61% of the time. But I see you don't want to say when you support him. Cuthbert Allgood Nov 2020 #199

I don't know where that number comes from but 538 says he votes "with" trump 32% of the time.... George II Nov 2020 #201

538 doesn't say that melman Nov 2020 #206

Actually 538 says he has voted 77% of the time with the Democratic Party... Spazito Nov 2020 #214

Yes, the current Congress. The point was made about how much he votes with trump. George II Nov 2020 #225

I would hazard a guess there would be no other Democrat that could... Spazito Nov 2020 #226

.... George II Nov 2020 #219

Okay melman Nov 2020 #221

Just a little place called factcheck.org Cuthbert Allgood Nov 2020 #210

There are plenty of people who advocate "defund the police" who mean abolish the police Sapient Donkey Nov 2020 #104

+1000 Celerity Nov 2020 #125

Defund the police is the dumbest slogan ever. AOC needs to distance herself... brush Nov 2020 #8

I agree. LisaM Nov 2020 #9

This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Nov 2020 #38

But she has it on her campaign website. George II Nov 2020 #92

She needs to take that down. brush Nov 2020 #105

good thing she did not come up with it, nor campaign on it. Manchin is using a RW bullshit meme Celerity Nov 2020 #127

I don't know who came up with it, but she campaigned on it. She refers to it on her campaign website George II Nov 2020 #157

She listed a statement on it with additional caveats that flesh it out (that people leave out) Celerity Nov 2020 #159

See post #62 please. George II Nov 2020 #160

Becsuse one represents blue New York and the other red west Virginia JI7 Nov 2020 #10

+1. Thank you for your common sense ChazII Nov 2020 #12

Manchin is pandering to his base. LanternWaste Nov 2020 #11

If we lose Joe Manchin, the Georgie seats would not even matter and the new Arizona Demsrule86 Nov 2020 #16

I'm not suggesting we lose Manchin. LanternWaste Nov 2020 #46

Good to know! Demsrule86 Nov 2020 #55

Sinema is just as conservative and likely to defect on many things a micrometre too far to the left Celerity Nov 2020 #140

That is what one does...they serve their constituents. Demsrule86 Nov 2020 #19

I'm not arguing otherwise. LanternWaste Nov 2020 #32

And so is she. The slogan "defund the police" only works for a narrow slice of educated Americans pnwmom Nov 2020 #21

I honestly don't know of *any* notable politician who uses the phrase... LanternWaste Nov 2020 #44

It literally means "no police". About the dumbest bit of messaging ever. brush Nov 2020 #108

It literally does not mean that. It isn't "un"fund the police, it's "de"fund the police. Cuthbert Allgood Nov 2020 #195

Hahahahahahahaha! Seriously? brush Nov 2020 #204

"withdraw" does not equal "remove" Cuthbert Allgood Nov 2020 #211

When did I say I want to keep police as they are? brush Nov 2020 #213

We could start by letting people know that defund does not mean eliminate. Cuthbert Allgood Nov 2020 #216

You stick with your inaccurate denial about what defund means. brush Nov 2020 #217

So when I fill out the "withdraw fund" sheet at my bank Cuthbert Allgood Nov 2020 #218

Again, google it and stop with inaccurate statements. brush Nov 2020 #220

"Google it" isn't an answer. Cuthbert Allgood Nov 2020 #222

I can't stand Manchin BainsBane Nov 2020 #17

Well I am on one side, but.. mvd Nov 2020 #25

That slogan is like saying "please vote me out of office." fearnobush Nov 2020 #26

Good lord, why would the Representative tweet anything the right wing rag... Spazito Nov 2020 #27

The "Examiner" link is in Manchin's original tweet melman Nov 2020 #36

But why on earth would she attach her own photo to it.... Spazito Nov 2020 #41

lol melman Nov 2020 #49

Ahhh, no answer to the question, original and second, of why the attachment of Spazito Nov 2020 #51

Sadly that's the way it is sometimes, or more correctly most of the time. "It is what it is"! George II Nov 2020 #56

LOL, too true! n/t Spazito Nov 2020 #59

Hint: if one hunts hard enough, one can find an insult anywhere. LanternWaste Nov 2020 #57

Bazinga! George II Nov 2020 #72

Demilitarize the police is more accurate. LSFL Nov 2020 #31

While I agree with the intent, saying "defund the police" was very shortsighted relayerbob Nov 2020 #34

Then it isn't helpful for Joe Manchin to go on about it. nt. Mariana Nov 2020 #156

Democrats as a whole don't understand teams. relayerbob Nov 2020 #186

Really. ismnotwasm Nov 2020 #48

I'll take Manchin over AOC... BGBD Nov 2020 #53

+1 BannonsLiver Nov 2020 #60

The post your plus oneing has a glaring lie, so you might want to pour it out nt liskddksil Nov 2020 #122

Post removed Post removed Nov 2020 #133

You speak the truth. NurseJackie Nov 2020 #142

Guess you like Brett on the Court? Nt liskddksil Nov 2020 #167

LOL! I said no such thing and you know it. What I said was "he speaks the truth." NurseJackie Nov 2020 #171

I luv you. betsuni Nov 2020 #143

Brett stan here nt liskddksil Nov 2020 #168

I luv smart people. betsuni Nov 2020 #184

Well said. OnDoutside Nov 2020 #149

Just wandered into the Kavanagh fan club I guess nt liskddksil Nov 2020 #170

Is that how you spell Manchin ? OnDoutside Nov 2020 #183

Guess I wandered into Free Republic. Kavanaugh liskddksil Nov 2020 #166

We need to WIN ELECTIONS, period.... steve2470 Nov 2020 #173

+1 nsd Nov 2020 #71

Amen +1.. caber09 Nov 2020 #73

Thank you fearnobush Nov 2020 #109

Umm, Manchin voted for Kavenaugh. Check your sources before smearing AOC nt liskddksil Nov 2020 #120

Umm, read his post #133 about Manchin's yes vote. It didn't matter at that point. n/t zackymilly Nov 2020 #145

The poster's original post said Manchin voted against Kavenaugh and than when I call them liskddksil Nov 2020 #174

+a million. & double that drink! Budi Nov 2020 #128

This! Polybius Nov 2020 #134

One of those people outraged that AOC danced on a rooftop right here folks ck4829 Nov 2020 #141

"outraged". LOL nt zackymilly Nov 2020 #146

Add another +1 from me mtnsnake Nov 2020 #172

He makes valid points. NurseJackie Nov 2020 #67

The "Defund the Police" Mantra Was Stupid Phrasing and a Gift To the GOP n/t Indykatie Nov 2020 #75

So you admit the goops are better at messaging dems wellst0nev0ter Nov 2020 #90

Refund the police is stupid! Reform the police is better! Nt USALiberal Nov 2020 #94

"I don't belong to an organized political party. I'm a Democrat." regnaD kciN Nov 2020 #89

Like herding cats... Demsrule86 Nov 2020 #91

Please Democrats, let that phrase die. It's a flop. Baked Potato Nov 2020 #111

Tell it to Joe Manchin. nt. Mariana Nov 2020 #155

I get it. And I REALLY like AOC, and have said so many times here. Baked Potato Nov 2020 #192

When the progressive left can win somewhere more competitive than D+20.... brooklynite Nov 2020 #112

works both ways, when Manchin can win in a Dem primary in an AOC type district, then he can Celerity Nov 2020 #131

+1. and this is not about 'winning in xyz district' as some are radius777 Nov 2020 #136

No it doesn't brooklynite Nov 2020 #151

yes it does, Manchin or a Manchin type would get pummelled in that district against a run Celerity Nov 2020 #209

And we'd still have the same level of representation in Congress brooklynite Nov 2020 #215

neither of the farthest edges of the Party, not AOC et al, nor Manchin and Henry Cuellar types Celerity Nov 2020 #223

It def does NOT work both ways... caber09 Nov 2020 #203

try running Manchin or a Manchin type there against a regular NYC left liberal Celerity Nov 2020 #208

Manchin is a white conservative who doesn't get systemic racism radius777 Nov 2020 #113

And she wants do make some drastic changes to stave off devastating climate change True Dough Nov 2020 #114

+1. The game board is tilted against us. radius777 Nov 2020 #115

lack of proportional representation will be one of the causes of death listed on the remains Celerity Nov 2020 #132

Way past time to stop being afraid of being Democrats Ell09 Nov 2020 #116

+1000 Celerity Nov 2020 #135

We have work to do with our messaging. I agree. We have... brush Nov 2020 #158

+1 Laelth Nov 2020 #180

Are we doomed? empedocles Nov 2020 #150

Good for her. She knows. Autumn Nov 2020 #169

In any other democracy eissa Nov 2020 #188

How are these two in the same party? Baitball Blogger Nov 2020 #189

This message was self-deleted by its author BannonsLiver Nov 2020 #200

I don't really care for either of them. BusyBeingBest Nov 2020 #202

How? A big difference I see between Manchin and Ocasio-Cortez is Hortensis Nov 2020 #212

Don't mock the death stare Steelrolled Nov 2020 #224

Nothing makes me dislike DU more than its collective maxsolomon Nov 2020 #227

Well said Dem4Life1102 Nov 2020 #228