General Discussion

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)

110. It's not up to him to define it

Thu Apr 29, 2021, 10:36 AM

Apr 2021

It is what it is and isn't up for interpretation or "he said-she said."

Besides, he knows exactly what it is.
If he doesn't, he should ask the people who coined the term and used it long before white folks tried to appropriate it. But he already knows.

And there are plenty of people on this board who don't recognize the existence of systemic racism. Oh, sure - they say they recognize that it exists, but whenever it comes into play they always deny that that particular instance has anything to do with systemic racism - They're big on telling us "Sure, racism exists, but that's not happening in THIS case. You can't assume just because it happened in another case, that that's what's going on here."

Either they really don't understand how SYSTEMIC racism actually works (among other things, it cannot be addressed or viewed in isolation) or they don't care and they're just giving lip service.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

168 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

James Carville is on tv again warning Dems not to alienate moderate voters by being too woke [View all] StarfishSaver Apr 2021 OP

Very annoying. There is no need for him to be so dismissive and spooky3 Apr 2021 #1

He's not interested in appealing to more voters StarfishSaver Apr 2021 #4

Maybe to appeal to dumb white voters. I think he's forgetting the spooky3 Apr 2021 #7

Yep, he was quiet all during the Trump years. PurgedVoter Apr 2021 #20

Obama said something important one time when I leftyladyfrommo Apr 2021 #76

That's not the same thing as Carville is saying StarfishSaver Apr 2021 #77

Carville IS talking about winning. "Keep your eyes on the prize." nt Hortensis Apr 2021 #116

He's talking about winning by making some of us stop talking about certain principles in order StarfishSaver Apr 2021 #118

You don't "win" by telling people to stop using terms black people appropriated 100 yrs ago, that's uponit7771 Apr 2021 #142

Are people even thinking instead of just reacting Hortensis Apr 2021 #145

... and not everyone is saying everything is about racism. Telling people to stop using words black uponit7771 Apr 2021 #147

Try telling that to the many thousands who shifted their votes Hortensis Apr 2021 #151

Biden won the election last year uponit7771 Apr 2021 #152

Right. nt Hortensis Apr 2021 #153

By not appropriating the oppositions framing on anything including outgroup words. Right? uponit7771 Apr 2021 #155

If these voters shifted their vote because of a slogan, we need to adjust our lingo StarfishSaver Apr 2021 #154

+10000!! SS, we're so screwed that we don't to talk to groups of humans. There's science behind uponit7771 Apr 2021 #157

Well, we're not talking about informed or Hortensis Apr 2021 #158

I liked James better when Tucker still... JoeOtterbein Apr 2021 #2

I took it to mean, too academic? mzmolly Apr 2021 #3

That's not what he said and that's not what he meant StarfishSaver Apr 2021 #6

If that's the case his comments were well over mzmolly Apr 2021 #9

Exactly - and especially since he's lecturing Democrats about the language we use StarfishSaver Apr 2021 #12

I'm glad Joe isn't mzmolly Apr 2021 #15

RIGHT !! uponit7771 Apr 2021 #57

Yes in a way. What he is trying to say is quit using new fangled phrases Bev54 Apr 2021 #18

No, that's not what he's saying StarfishSaver Apr 2021 #21

Woke is exactly it Bev54 Apr 2021 #31

Most white people maybe. /nt tonedevil Apr 2021 #41

Black people have been using woke for nearly 100 years, we didn't use it as a political term uponit7771 Apr 2021 #42

Slaves used to tell each other to "stay woke." joetheman Apr 2021 #65

Because the Ragin Cajun is such a devotee of the King's English StarfishSaver Apr 2021 #68

Yes but have they also used defund police and socialism? Bev54 Apr 2021 #90

Wokeness is not a slogan StarfishSaver Apr 2021 #94

What I am trying to say is we all have language in our own Bev54 Apr 2021 #98

The problem is that only Black and Brown people and our allies have our language policed this way StarfishSaver Apr 2021 #101

I am not doubling down. I think he was inarticulate in what he said Bev54 Apr 2021 #102

Do you have any polls that indicated these words hurt dems down ballot? I'm asking because uponit7771 Apr 2021 #105

No I don't have any polls at my fingertips and I am not going to go search for them Bev54 Apr 2021 #107

thx, I know there aren't any so there's no data to back up the notion that slogans beat us uponit7771 Apr 2021 #108

You wanted polls and articles here are just a few. Bev54 Apr 2021 #159

Those aren't polls of how the slogan affected votes just whether or not they were popular uponit7771 Apr 2021 #163

The Law and Order Election LetMyPeopleVote May 2021 #167

Agreed. Caliman73 Apr 2021 #129

Woke was never a platitude for black people, we never asked white people to use it and black people uponit7771 Apr 2021 #103

+1,000,000 StarfishSaver Apr 2021 #109

And unfortunately it works. Caliman73 Apr 2021 #130

Does Biden hates meat work? thx in advance uponit7771 Apr 2021 #136

Probably less effective. Caliman73 Apr 2021 #138

The correct answer is hell naw because the people who believe that stupid shit aren't reachable uponit7771 Apr 2021 #140

Yeah but this isn't about behavior science... Caliman73 Apr 2021 #143

IT IS !! Omg I couldn't disagree more. You don't throw gasoline on people and expect them to uponit7771 Apr 2021 #146

Okay? Caliman73 Apr 2021 #148

This: StarfishSaver Apr 2021 #149

Yes he is krawhitham Apr 2021 #161

This is exactly what I heard him say. The very words. Hekate May 2021 #168

I agree mzmolly Apr 2021 #22

Funny how he's using confusing and misleading language to lecture us a out our language StarfishSaver Apr 2021 #23

I hope that's not so. mzmolly Apr 2021 #25

No he is not, he is talking strictly about messaging Bev54 Apr 2021 #33

Better to use the language of Wypipo. tonedevil Apr 2021 #37

So black people should use terms white people understand to convey a message ?! REALLY ?! uponit7771 Apr 2021 #43

If they're trying to communicate with White people Mossfern Apr 2021 #54

Maybe white people should try harder to understand what they're being told StarfishSaver Apr 2021 #55

You're missing the point Mossfern Apr 2021 #131

"hostility" StarfishSaver Apr 2021 #133

Well, Mossfern Apr 2021 #139

The question was rhetorical, if people don't WANT to understand a message they focus on ... uponit7771 Apr 2021 #56

I don't even know what you mean by that Bev54 Apr 2021 #89

Woke in this context was appropriated by black people nearly 100 years ago some white people uponit7771 Apr 2021 #91

Not just telling them not to use the word StarfishSaver Apr 2021 #97

+1, I don't get it with some people seeing we should go after the suppressed and non voter vs ... uponit7771 Apr 2021 #100

If he were just talking about messaging, why talk about "wokeness" at all StarfishSaver Apr 2021 #44

This message was self-deleted by its author Mossfern Apr 2021 #53

"circle round" "no worries" :) Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2021 #62

Like "kudos" mzmolly Apr 2021 #67

Exactly - it's not about being "woke" but vocabulary. Duppers Apr 2021 #35

Don't you find it interesting that then man who's lecturing us about our vocabulary StarfishSaver Apr 2021 #46

100% agree too. Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2021 #61

Also agree completely. That's what people who genuinely want Hortensis Apr 2021 #113

Lol! StarfishSaver Apr 2021 #115

"Keep your eyes on the prize." Carville's not your enemy. Hortensis Apr 2021 #117

You're also not a victim here, so please stop pretending you are StarfishSaver Apr 2021 #119

Yes, actually I am. You really should know that. nt Hortensis Apr 2021 #120

Yes. I guess I should know by now you would think that. StarfishSaver Apr 2021 #125

Lol, I did know you would deny my problems with equality. Hortensis Apr 2021 #126

THe Faculty Lounge language Claire Oh Nette Apr 2021 #28

That is exactly correct. Bev54 Apr 2021 #34

What is "the language of Wokeness"? StarfishSaver Apr 2021 #47

THank you for your analysis. Claire Oh Nette Apr 2021 #106

That mzmolly Apr 2021 #70

He should use different terminology to tell people they should use different terminology? StarfishSaver Apr 2021 #73

Yes. mzmolly Apr 2021 #81

I don't think you realize what you're aaying StarfishSaver Apr 2021 #82

I do. mzmolly Apr 2021 #83

You still don't seem to get it StarfishSaver Apr 2021 #88

I'm not defending it. mzmolly Apr 2021 #92

"Justice and equality" are discussed ALL the time StarfishSaver Apr 2021 #95

He's not offended. mzmolly Apr 2021 #96

If this is just about "lingo" why is he talking about "wokeness" at all? StarfishSaver Apr 2021 #99

It's a matter of how he defines mzmolly Apr 2021 #104

It's not up to him to define it StarfishSaver Apr 2021 #110

I just watched him Deuxcents Apr 2021 #5

I liked carville better dweller Apr 2021 #8

Not this crap again..... Champion Jack Apr 2021 #10

Yup. Carvilles's spewing this crap again StarfishSaver Apr 2021 #13

This aint the 1990's Jimbo. BootinUp Apr 2021 #11

Brian Williams eats that shit up tishaLA Apr 2021 #14

Yeah well fuck that kind of coded racism ismnotwasm Apr 2021 #16

Do we need to be more "rural" and less "urban" Jimbo? johnp3907 Apr 2021 #17

Carville apparently didn't get the memo that Pragmatic Incrementalism has been cancelled. Nt Fiendish Thingy Apr 2021 #19

Hate To Break It To Carville WHITT Apr 2021 #24

even worse, when he says he doesn't know a single person of colour who has ever used that term Celerity Apr 2021 #29

RIGHT !! uponit7771 Apr 2021 #45

Glad to have the Carvilles in the Party. He's not always right, gaffes a lot, Hoyt Apr 2021 #26

Carville is looking at the US Senate. Bucky Apr 2021 #51

I did hear him say that Dems can be condescending. That was news to me tulipsandroses Apr 2021 #27

Exactly o matter what we say, they will twist it into something else StarfishSaver Apr 2021 #48

I think he wants to have a grown up, respectful conversation with conservatives Bucky Apr 2021 #52

+1, this is my impression too; he thinks they're reachable republicans instead of getting the uponit7771 Apr 2021 #59

Never been a big fan of Carville.. msfiddlestix Apr 2021 #30

That may be all you heard, but that's not all he said StarfishSaver Apr 2021 #49

I didn't intend to suggest what I wrote was all I heard... msfiddlestix Apr 2021 #63

It's interesting that people are going through so much effort interpreting what he said StarfishSaver Apr 2021 #66

You've asserted intentions in my words and intentions which are simply not true. msfiddlestix Apr 2021 #78

I know nothing about your intentions and haven't inferred or suggested what they may be StarfishSaver Apr 2021 #85

"Woke" is generously defined by those who consider themselves it Sympthsical Apr 2021 #32

Amen! Mossfern Apr 2021 #137

Very well stated. misanthrope Apr 2021 #160

I will absolutely steal that Sympthsical Apr 2021 #165

Well mzmolly Apr 2021 #162

Dixie-Dem speaking from the past. n/t King_Klonopin Apr 2021 #36

carville -- ugh. and (imo) he's been out of touch for years orleans Apr 2021 #38

Really not super interested in the opinion of someone ibegurpard Apr 2021 #39

The most interesting thing he said Sgent Apr 2021 #40

This 10,000 % msfiddlestix Apr 2021 #64

That was stunning. mzmolly Apr 2021 #84

If he were really concerned about "wokeness" he would work against... JHB Apr 2021 #50

I don't see a problem. Maxheader Apr 2021 #58

Except that's not even close to what he's saying StarfishSaver Apr 2021 #60

Well maybe I didn't understand what he said relative to the op? Maxheader Apr 2021 #164

DU experts acting like they know more than carville! Nt USALiberal Apr 2021 #69

There are obviously quite a few people here who know far more a out being "woke" than Carville does StarfishSaver Apr 2021 #72

Agree. And sounds like more than Sharpton, Plouffe, Obama too. They Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2021 #75

Where did this word "woke" even come from? gulliver Apr 2021 #71

Woke has been around for decades. It's not a new term StarfishSaver Apr 2021 #74

Unlike the other words, "woke" seems to imply that some people are "un-woke" gulliver Apr 2021 #79

Some people ARE unwoke StarfishSaver Apr 2021 #80

Like Sharpton this am!!! Laura PourMeADrink Apr 2021 #86

Fuck him. How is he still a thing? Cuthbert Allgood Apr 2021 #87

He's a hired gun, always looking out for his next gig, Lars39 Apr 2021 #93

Rev Al agrees with Carville LetMyPeopleVote Apr 2021 #111

I don't. johnp3907 Apr 2021 #112

And he's Black, so StarfishSaver Apr 2021 #114

It means this issue is not as slam dunk as you seem to think.. honest.abe Apr 2021 #121

Some people don't agree with me about something we're discussing on a discussion board? StarfishSaver Apr 2021 #122

So stop insulting us for not completely agreeing with you. honest.abe Apr 2021 #127

Your tendency to feel insulted is a reflection of something but utterly unrelated to me StarfishSaver Apr 2021 #128

You are essentially calling Carville a closet racist and not caring about racial issues. honest.abe Apr 2021 #132

Lol. StarfishSaver Apr 2021 #134

So the insults continue.. honest.abe Apr 2021 #135

Indicating someone's not aware and calling them a closet racist are two different things and I think uponit7771 Apr 2021 #144

No, I defer to Rev. Al because he has worked on campaigns in the real world LetMyPeopleVote Apr 2021 #150

Being Woke is better than being weak. By far. n/t librechik Apr 2021 #123

Maybe. But some white people don't like it so shhhhhh StarfishSaver Apr 2021 #124

Should we also get off his lawn? Generic Brad Apr 2021 #141

Reminds me of the handwringing over gay rights some years ago. yardwork Apr 2021 #156

Who? MrsCoffee Apr 2021 #166