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Xolodno

(7,313 posts)

51. The only reason Milton Friedman's theory took off...

Reply to Progressive Lawyer (Original post)

Tue May 16, 2023, 05:05 PM

May 2023

...was a newspaper article he published and got picked up by right wing sources. And his theory wasn't even really a theory, he had virtually no data to back up his assumptions. Granted economists make a lot of assumptions, but its to simplify a complex problem so they can apply statistical and mathematical techniques to it. And despite that, they are willing to admit sometimes assumptions, even with the math can lead to the wrong conclusion.

And we don't even have that for Friedman. Top that off, we never actually fully embraced the theories of Keynes, we kind of half assed it. Then abandoned it (except when we get a massive recession) in the 1980's. But corporations, wealthy, etc. fully embraced Friedman's views and thus were in the mess we have today.

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Can the progressive viewpoint coexist with the teachings of Thomas Sowell and Milton Friedman... [View all] Progressive Lawyer May 2023 OP

No. 2naSalit May 2023 #1

Oh a Hoover Institute fellow and his mentor? MutantAndProud May 2023 #2

On the theory that a well intentioned system, such as welfare in the US, can havedevastating effects Progressive Lawyer May 2023 #3

Yes edhopper May 2023 #4

So the veracity of a theory is entirely dependent upon which group(s) adopts that theory? Progressive Lawyer May 2023 #7

It has nothing to do with theory, but... MutantAndProud May 2023 #11

I do not disagree, but my understanding of Friedman's theory is that the current welfare system has Progressive Lawyer May 2023 #13

That's not reducing their will to succeed jmbar2 May 2023 #16

That's what Thomas Sowell and Milton Friedman have done...knock the system... Progressive Lawyer May 2023 #18

How they knock it is critical MutantAndProud May 2023 #20

That theory... MutantAndProud May 2023 #17

When I referenced "benefits", I meant things like food stamps, cash aid, Section 8 housing... Progressive Lawyer May 2023 #21

In many cases these benefits are made scarce MutantAndProud May 2023 #23

Perhaps there are several systems trapping people...the welfare system being just one of many. Progressive Lawyer May 2023 #24

I don't know if you can isolate it, I would continue to say MutantAndProud May 2023 #27

Milton Friedman proposed a "negative income tax", or in other words a guaranteed minimum income.. Progressive Lawyer May 2023 #29

That is one aspect MutantAndProud May 2023 #31

Welfare systems have been under attack by the right since FDR jmbar2 May 2023 #28

Does the minimum guaranteed income not address the issue for those that are unable to work? Progressive Lawyer May 2023 #30

Aka UBI (universal basic income) MutantAndProud May 2023 #32

Perhaps the issue is the definition of welfare... Progressive Lawyer May 2023 #34

Welfare is an expansive concept MutantAndProud May 2023 #36

GFC model MutantAndProud May 2023 #37

The U stands for "Universal"... brooklynite May 2023 #44

Well the guaranteed income model that Stockton Ca implemented limits it to poor neighborhoods. Progressive Lawyer May 2023 #45

It which case its not "universal"...its a different version of welfare. brooklynite May 2023 #50

I never said guaranteed minimum income was "universal'" Progressive Lawyer May 2023 #54

Who cares if Bill Gates gets a share, too? haele May 2023 #49

I don't understand what you mean by "coexist"... brooklynite May 2023 #5

Perhaps "accept" is the more appropriate word. Progressive Lawyer May 2023 #8

Of course progressives won't accept the position of RW economists, and VV brooklynite May 2023 #9

Any position? My understanding is that Thomas Sowell is an ardent 1st Amendment supporter... Progressive Lawyer May 2023 #10

Those are not two positions you can equivocate MutantAndProud May 2023 #12

I was questioning the acceptance of the teachings of Thomas Sowell and Milton Friedman in regards... Progressive Lawyer May 2023 #15

Understood, see post #17 MutantAndProud May 2023 #19

Ever read his newspaper column? Mopar151 May 2023 #14

That ship sailed quite some time ago Sympthsical May 2023 #39

Absolutely not ismnotwasm May 2023 #6

People Believe To Some Purpose, Sir The Magistrate May 2023 #22

Well said. MutantAndProud May 2023 #25

Why would that be the only proper policy? Progressive Lawyer May 2023 #26

Support Of The Policy, Sir, Is The Reason For The Belief The Magistrate May 2023 #33

That still does not address whether a theory can be viable regardless of which group adopts it. Progressive Lawyer May 2023 #35

No, as progressives have generally heard of Herbert Hoover.. Mopar151 May 2023 #38

Milton Friedman proposes a guaranteed minimum income. Seems like you agree with him on that point. Progressive Lawyer May 2023 #42

I .was going on the installed versions configuration. Mopar151 May 2023 #46

So you would endorse Friedman's position in regards to the guaranteed minimum income? Progressive Lawyer May 2023 #55

In Reply To Your No. 35, Sir The Magistrate May 2023 #40

"The idea that assistance from a 'welfare state' harms rather than helps its recipients..." Progressive Lawyer May 2023 #41

Such Crawfishing Does Not Become You, Sir The Magistrate May 2023 #52

That is inaccurate. I specifically limited the their teachings on the "welfare state".... Progressive Lawyer May 2023 #53

Enjoy Yourself, Sir The Magistrate May 2023 #57

Well said, and on point! Mopar151 May 2023 #58

"The" progressive viewpoint? :) "Progressive" is like "snowflake" -- Hortensis May 2023 #43

And we love us some FDR! nt Mopar151 May 2023 #47

Yes, and love us some founders. :) Hortensis May 2023 #48

The only reason Milton Friedman's theory took off... Xolodno May 2023 #51

No malaise May 2023 #56

You only have to lookat countries edhopper May 2023 #59