General Discussion

Jedi Guy

(3,323 posts)

121. Despite being blindsided by 10/7, Israel has extremely competent security services.

Mon Oct 30, 2023, 12:49 PM

Oct 2023

Between the IDF, Shin Bet, and Mossad, I can only hope and assume that they do their due diligence when determining whether, say, an apartment building is being used to as an ammo dump or an empty lot beside a school is being used as a rocket launch site.

Ultimately, though, you're asking me a question I can't possibly answer. I have no knowledge of sources and means for the intelligence the Israelis are using to choose which targets to strike and which to avoid.

I will say that if the IDF just stopped giving a damn and bombed whatever moved, that casualty count on the Palestinian side would be a lot higher. Last I saw, Israel had launched 6000 strikes and the casualty count in Gaza was below 10,000. That was as of a couple days ago, but still.

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Poll: Do you believe Israel is committing genocide against the population of Gaza? [View all] Takket Oct 2023 OP

The word genocide is use liberally around here by some that have no idea what MarineCombatEngineer Oct 2023 #1

Same with "carpet bombing" DetroitLegalBeagle Oct 2023 #4

Putin has continued to bomb Ukrainian apartment buildings. brush Oct 2023 #44

Zero cimparison. Putin is intentionally targeting wnylib Oct 2023 #49

You see a difference in targeting civilian buildings in Gaza than what... brush Oct 2023 #56

You may not care, but there is a reason the laws of war DO care. Happy Hoosier Oct 2023 #99

We shall see after this is over if it's a war crime. Meanwhile, the desth toll keeps rising. brush Oct 2023 #111

MNore than 600, 000 German civilians died in WWII. Happy Hoosier Oct 2023 #112

I agree on the rising anti-semitism worldwide. I don't like it... brush Oct 2023 #115

Well, there were new articles to the Geneva Convention passed after WW2 to deal with the targeting of civilians.... TheRealNorth Oct 2023 #124

True SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2023 #127

We shall see. IMO there have been war crimes commited by both sides. brush Nov 2023 #156

brush SYGDeb Nov 2023 #155

Stop gaslighting, Israel admitted (on CNN) they are targeting civilians krawhitham Oct 2023 #146

That is not what targeting civilians looks like Zeitghost Nov 2023 #148

Uh no SickOfTheOnePct Nov 2023 #150

Bush, Cheney enid602 Oct 2023 #65

Except there is no International warrant issued for them for war crimes EX500rider Oct 2023 #80

For reference... Think. Again. Oct 2023 #32

To be clear... AZSkiffyGeek Oct 2023 #58

All true SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2023 #62

To be very VERY clear... Think. Again. Oct 2023 #92

They have no such responsiblility Zeitghost Oct 2023 #134

Not according to the United Nations... Think. Again. Oct 2023 #142

Reminder, it's not too late to cast your vote in the poll! Abolishinist Oct 2023 #84

I wonder... FirefighterJo Oct 2023 #102

If has a definition, and Israel is clearly committing it krawhitham Oct 2023 #145

It's antisemitic rhetoric Sympthsical Oct 2023 #2

Yes. It's similar to accusing Israelis of being Nazis. yardwork Oct 2023 #16

That was my sense but I hadn't seen it explained like this before LymphocyteLover Oct 2023 #72

Sympthdical SYGDeb Nov 2023 #154

Is the question about effectiveness/competence? Because Bibi's speech yesterday RockRaven Oct 2023 #3

There will be plenty of protest and condemnation from Israelis Mossfern Oct 2023 #5

But but but SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2023 #6

Yeah, I know... Mossfern Oct 2023 #7

They've also said that waving swastikas isn't antisemitism either AZSkiffyGeek Oct 2023 #9

Really? It is common for people on the left to wave swastikas? Redleg Oct 2023 #43

I didn't say it was common AZSkiffyGeek Oct 2023 #45

You said "Apparently it's quite common for people on the left to wave swastikas." Redleg Oct 2023 #47

Oh, bad phrasing on my part AZSkiffyGeek Oct 2023 #51

I agree with getting the nutters out of the party Redleg Oct 2023 #54

What does all that have to do with whether bombing civilian occupied... brush Oct 2023 #48

Ukrainian military wasn't hiding SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2023 #50

"That's the difference." Jedi Guy Oct 2023 #70

Yep SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2023 #71

+1000 nt NutmegYankee Oct 2023 #94

Oh, and IDF knows exactly which buildings they destroy is sheltering Hamas? brush Oct 2023 #91

Not always SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2023 #93

How long will Netanyahu remain in power? AntiFascist Oct 2023 #12

No I don't... brooklynite Oct 2023 #37

What post are you responding to? brush Oct 2023 #40

Wow, that's a hideous statement from Netanyahu! At the same time what Hamas did is hienious..... electric_blue68 Oct 2023 #114

That was a declaration of war, and it was wrongheaded and stupid. yardwork Oct 2023 #19

Putin has to be careful to what countries he travels to because... brush Oct 2023 #42

Apples and oranges. wnylib Oct 2023 #55

Not just apples and oranges. yardwork Oct 2023 #60

They're like Hamas shelling into Israel as well as Israel bombing... brush Oct 2023 #64

Apples and oranges, huh? Apartment buildings being bombed and shelled... brush Oct 2023 #63

When did Ukraine launch a terrorist attack on Russian people? yardwork Oct 2023 #57

Bibi is fucking awful. Happy Hoosier Oct 2023 #100

Genocide is more of a long-term, sustained annilation over years.... brush Oct 2023 #8

What is the war crime? N/t SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2023 #13

Killing of 8000 civilians. What hamas did I would also consider it a war crime... brush Oct 2023 #15

There's a fine line between war and war crimes, but I'm not going to argue. yardwork Oct 2023 #20

Killing civilians is not a war crime SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2023 #21

OK, your wording is different. How about obliterating whole swathes of... brush Oct 2023 #23

If Hamas is hiding there SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2023 #24

You have to know better than that. Another way has to be found. brush Oct 2023 #28

I'm not going to change my mind SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2023 #36

Tell it to Hamas. They are the ones hiding behind Gaza civilians wnylib Oct 2023 #59

That's a matter of opinion. Targetilng whole swathes of civilian housiing... brush Oct 2023 #27

You do realize that it is Hamas supplying the death figures right? GuppyGal Oct 2023 #29

Ok, but do you doubt that hundreds of civilians are killed... brush Oct 2023 #31

Apparently not Redleg Oct 2023 #39

So you believe that Hamas is entitled to a wnylib Oct 2023 #73

You should know that both sides are responsible to avoid the killings innocents. brush Oct 2023 #86

"Warring parties are both responsible for taking all precautions to avoid innocent civilian deaths." Jedi Guy Oct 2023 #74

Oh, please. Chk my posts on this thread. I've said several times that Hamas shelling into Israel is subject... brush Oct 2023 #85

That's not what I asked you to condemn, though, is it? Jedi Guy Oct 2023 #119

Consider it done. Now let me ask you something... brush Oct 2023 #120

Despite being blindsided by 10/7, Israel has extremely competent security services. Jedi Guy Oct 2023 #121

Let's hope for a ceasefire as it's a complex and extremely vexing situation. brush Oct 2023 #122

I suspect a ceasefire is not in the cards unless something drastically changes. Jedi Guy Oct 2023 #123

I think you would need a good lawyer Redleg Oct 2023 #38

"You are generally required to find another means to get the bad guys." Jedi Guy Oct 2023 #76

I am not saying that it's not a legitimate target Redleg Oct 2023 #97

It's very much a strained analogy. Comparing war to law enforcement really isn't apples to apples. Jedi Guy Oct 2023 #118

The military has more choices in dealing with this Redleg Oct 2023 #132

Special forces really isn't a viable option here, as I pointed out. Jedi Guy Oct 2023 #133

special operations missions are often supported by infantry Redleg Oct 2023 #135

A ground incursion into Gaza by the IDF, with infantry support and Mossad teams, is still a bloody proposition. Jedi Guy Oct 2023 #136

I understand the calculus and the concept of warfare Redleg Oct 2023 #137

I don't think any reasonable person wants to see the destruction of Gaza or mass deaths among Palestinians. Jedi Guy Oct 2023 #138

I don't know why Hamas would not expect this response Redleg Oct 2023 #143

So no Hamas fighters have died, just all civilians? Unlikely EX500rider Oct 2023 #26

So when the Hutus killed 800,000 Tutsis with machetes over the course of 3 months milestogo Oct 2023 #22

Someone is pushing a button that drops a weapon they no not where randr Oct 2023 #10

Gosh edhopper Oct 2023 #11

According to a couple of posters here SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2023 #14

Tired of the edhopper Oct 2023 #25

They're not Hamas apologists! AZSkiffyGeek Oct 2023 #30

You had me going there edhopper Oct 2023 #34

There is a distinction between "blaming" and "criticizing" Redleg Oct 2023 #52

I do edhopper Oct 2023 #81

Yes- "genocide" is laden with meaning and strong emotion Redleg Oct 2023 #96

+1 And the latent antisemitism BannonsLiver Oct 2023 #110

Vowing to do it and actually doing it are different things Redleg Oct 2023 #41

Fine edhopper Oct 2023 #82

That is a good point Redleg Oct 2023 #95

No question this was a complete failure edhopper Oct 2023 #109

I see I'm in good Cha Oct 2023 #17

intentional and purposeful genocide to eliminate the population of Gaza?? NO WarGamer Oct 2023 #18

Honestly Gaza will need a complete reset... Happy Hoosier Oct 2023 #101

Nope. Elessar Zappa Oct 2023 #33

This message was self-deleted by its author Thinker Cats Oct 2023 #35

Yes they are, imo. So is Hamas. Oneironaut Oct 2023 #46

Nope. Hamas declared war, the Palestinians are paying for it, big time. OAITW r.2.0 Oct 2023 #53

I think that Hamas is killing people in mass numbers. Initech Oct 2023 #61

I will say this for Hamas... They are marketing GENIUSES AZSkiffyGeek Oct 2023 #66

Well the real bad guy in all of this is Vladimir Putin. Initech Oct 2023 #68

I'm sure he has a hand in it AZSkiffyGeek Oct 2023 #69

It is a very complicated and tangled web. Initech Oct 2023 #75

Honestly I'd like to see Mossad do some targeted operations AZSkiffyGeek Oct 2023 #77

Mossad is very patient. revmclaren Oct 2023 #116

+1. Few people know that one fifth of Israel's citizens are Palestinian. Genocide, my ass dalton99a Oct 2023 #126

I don't think it's genocide, which, by definition, has the aim of the complete destruction of the group targeted. lees1975 Oct 2023 #67

Extremism in the defense of liberty... dchill Oct 2023 #78

"Genocide" has become an antisemitic dog whistle as it relates to Israel. nt LexVegas Oct 2023 #79

Yes, exactly what you said. madaboutharry Oct 2023 #83

Anyone Claiming this is genocide..... Willto Oct 2023 #87

Yes. betsuni Oct 2023 #88

Exactly, they can spin it however they fucking want to and the bullshit still smells like fucking bullshit anti Semitism SoFlaBro Oct 2023 #89

The vast majority of us condemned the US for killing all those Iraqis ecstatic Oct 2023 #90

The post above yours provides a good rebuttal, but I'll weigh in as well. yardwork Oct 2023 #98

I would add SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2023 #103

Yes! yardwork Oct 2023 #113

Who? Willto Oct 2023 #104

Your post is exhibit 1A in gaslighting. madaboutharry Oct 2023 #105

And destroy the credibility of a poster on DU. revmclaren Oct 2023 #117

Of course it's not millions yet. That's why everyone is calling for a ceasefire so it doesn't get to that point. nt ecstatic Oct 2023 #125

"...not millions yet." madaboutharry Oct 2023 #128

I mean SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2023 #129

Yes.. DemocratInPa Oct 2023 #106

Please SickOfTheOnePct Oct 2023 #107

It is.. Willto Oct 2023 #108

certainly disregard of life. pansypoo53219 Oct 2023 #130

NO................... but it is regrettable............... DemocraticPatriot Oct 2023 #131

22% of American Jews believe Israel is committing genocide Army Brat Oct 2023 #139

I hate this but I'm wading in again. haele Oct 2023 #140

Israel isn't doing anything that's all that different from Area Bombing by the Allies in WWII Kennah Oct 2023 #141

Genocide/expulsion enid602 Oct 2023 #144

Yes, as does my 97 year old Jewish mother in law, and her 5 children. Goddessartist Nov 2023 #147

If Zeitghost Nov 2023 #149

No, but the air strikes of refugee camps and civilian housing is... brush Nov 2023 #151

No combatant SickOfTheOnePct Nov 2023 #152

Poll SYGDeb Nov 2023 #153