General Discussion

TheKentuckian

(26,314 posts)

223. Full disclosure, I don't claim to know what is going on.

Sun Nov 18, 2012, 09:51 PM

Nov 2012

I don't know if there is electronic cheating.

I don't know if Rove is involved with such things if they go on.

I don't know if there was a scam going in Ohio.

If there was a scam, I don't know why it failed or if it worked but not well enough.

I don't know if Anonymous was took any action, if there was something to respond to, and if they did I have know effin idea if they took credit.

What I know is there are too many questions that can only be answered with circumstantial arguments and who tells the best story when it is voting not some mystery beyond human understanding and discovery in our time.

I also know people have unverifiable and proprietary opportunity along with open motive.

I know I see about ever other manner of despicable shenanigans being used from street level all the way to the top.

I think the situation invites controversy and makes the quantifiable a factual mystery.
So no matter what one believes, it would seem cleaning this shit up would be very high priority. Even if you believe everything is above board and functioning well, you'd oppose willfully creating doubt in the institution.

The argument seems like a distraction to me, why have these questions?

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Why? Why would Anonymous release evidence against Rove? [View all] MannyGoldstein Nov 2012 OP

Be afraid. Rove is untouchable. ProSense Nov 2012 #1

So when are the prosecutions of confessed war criminals scheduled to start? MannyGoldstein Nov 2012 #4

and you can munch on your non-sequiturs along with the popcorn. cali Nov 2012 #6

Stealing...nt msanthrope Nov 2012 #8

Care to point one out? MannyGoldstein Nov 2012 #246

Conclusion: No evidence should be presented because nothing will happen. ProSense Nov 2012 #7

That's not what I said, is it? MannyGoldstein Nov 2012 #10

"I said that Anonymous would be foolish to release evidence." ProSense Nov 2012 #12

The age old debate... Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #46

funny, because I think both camps here are being idealistic. bettyellen Nov 2012 #105

I do believe you made my case... Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #155

one of my friends working the polls actually saw a local councilman bettyellen Nov 2012 #173

Yep Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #185

Karl Rove has Obama's authentic Kenyan birth certificate Coyotl Nov 2012 #47

Now, now, Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #59

Reality check. reusrename Nov 2012 #84

Where is the evidence that Romney won the primaries by hacking voting machines? D23MIURG23 Nov 2012 #107

Mike Collins has written articles with links to the proofs. reusrename Nov 2012 #204

I don't know. randome Nov 2012 #206

First, no one is comparing anything; each instance stands on its own. reusrename Nov 2012 #214

Thanks for posting that. D23MIURG23 Nov 2012 #216

Sure, I understand that. reusrename Nov 2012 #243

Only the DUINOers. nt valerief Nov 2012 #100

What exactly is it that you don't believe? reusrename Nov 2012 #79

Oh crap, another line of BULLSHIT being inserted into the mix to prove the bullshit Coyotl Nov 2012 #135

What the hell are you going off about? reusrename Nov 2012 #209

I don't think you 'get' Anonymous. sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #116

Oh, I get it. ProSense Nov 2012 #119

No I don't think you do or you would not be demanding they provide evidence sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #128

Let's all believe that in the US when evidence of War Crimes, Election sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #156

They will be scheduled sometime after the DOJ investigates and files charges. Zorra Nov 2012 #224

As manny said, when is the war crimes trial scheduled to start? nadinbrzezinski Nov 2012 #21

He's femrap Nov 2012 #37

No one is claiming what you state. Rove is as touchable as Oliy North or Scooter Libby. rhett o rick Nov 2012 #64

"Rove is as touchable as Oliy North or Scooter Libby." ProSense Nov 2012 #85

Oliy got a slap on the wrist and Libby got pardoned. Wow. rhett o rick Nov 2012 #92

"You may 'take it' but it's not enough for me." ProSense Nov 2012 #95

You dont think that Anon has evidence that the DoJ isnt aware of, do you? rhett o rick Nov 2012 #132

Lol, the JURORS convicted Libby, and then what happened?? sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #168

You seem to be spending a lot of time defending Rove, why is that? bahrbearian Nov 2012 #68

Please, try that cheap psychology on someone else. n/t ProSense Nov 2012 #87

I thought this was the DU, not American CrossRoads. bahrbearian Nov 2012 #89

This is the place where some believe evidence is unnecessary. n/t ProSense Nov 2012 #98

I think some proof would be nice, but your adamantly asking for that proof is curious. bahrbearian Nov 2012 #109

Pro, let tell it like it is.. Hutzpa Nov 2012 #121

ProSense - you need to go back through the zillions of posts here throughout the campaign bupkus Nov 2012 #110

+1000% n/t sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #236

Because they made a big claim without any evidence whatsoever cali Nov 2012 #2

Rove made a bigger claim malaise Nov 2012 #5

Indeed he did... Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #54

Yes, and he was proven wrong due to evidence. Pale Blue Dot Nov 2012 #56

This administration protected Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #51

I think part of the prior protection... Bibliovore Nov 2012 #80

Perhaps, Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #88

Which do you mean? Bibliovore Nov 2012 #103

I was thinking of the nastiness of an investigation Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #150

You don't protect war criminals for the sake of bi-partisanship. Anyone sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #166

This is much more concrete though treestar Nov 2012 #96

Perhaps. Sekhmets Daughter Nov 2012 #99

DU is populated by a lot of gullible want-to-believe new agers Coyotl Nov 2012 #58

What an insult Kingofalldems Nov 2012 #123

I don't like BULLSHIT Coyotl Nov 2012 #161

Apparently most of DU is bullshit to you Kingofalldems Nov 2012 #190

But But But YOU STILL Post Here HangOnKids Nov 2012 #191

YOU seem to want to believe you've made a cohesive argument (apparently while not grasping that YOU WinkyDink Nov 2012 #133

What nonsense. "Fairyland of individuated reality nearly devoid of science and logic " WCLinolVir Nov 2012 #244

Did Justice prosecute him for the firing of the US Attorneys? sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #118

Tough to use evidence obtained illegally against Rove, isn't it? cleduc Nov 2012 #3

Nope--as long as the government didn't steal it, 'stolen' evidence is perfectly fine msanthrope Nov 2012 #11

exactly grantcart Nov 2012 #13

Post #9 was claiming that Anonymous might be a government agency Fumesucker Nov 2012 #23

Strange but true! nt ProudProgressiveNow Nov 2012 #198

Rove will never be convicted in this country. It's far more like that the sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #171

What makes you think any evidence Anonymous has gathered hasn't been sent to the DoJ? BlueCaliDem Nov 2012 #9

So you're saying that secret police would be a *good* thing in your eyes? Fumesucker Nov 2012 #19

Never said such a thing. BlueCaliDem Nov 2012 #114

Here's what you said, you clearly implied secret police is a positive thing Fumesucker Nov 2012 #120

I didn't imply anything. YOU are implying I meant something I hadn't. BlueCaliDem Nov 2012 #149

Since when is/are Anonymous acting as a police power? WinkyDink Nov 2012 #136

Don't ask me, it wasn't my idea Fumesucker Nov 2012 #143

What makes you certain that Anonymous gathered any evidence? D23MIURG23 Nov 2012 #112

There! See? I pose a scenario and it gets vetted. BlueCaliDem Nov 2012 #153

People have been splitting tickets for 200 years. jeff47 Nov 2012 #158

In NC 2004, did black Dems split ticket Bush? unc70 Nov 2012 #217

So....time to change the subject when the argument isn't going your way? jeff47 Nov 2012 #219

Replying to your misleading response in other thread unc70 Nov 2012 #225

So now we're on to the "can't be bothered" stage. jeff47 Nov 2012 #238

We know lots about anonymous. D23MIURG23 Nov 2012 #176

Ut oh Manny... 99Forever Nov 2012 #14

"ya mean Anonymous doesn't answer to self-appointed 'inquisitors'" ProSense Nov 2012 #17

Yes. 99Forever Nov 2012 #22

Do you think Rove is impressed? ProSense Nov 2012 #27

I'm tellin' ya... 99Forever Nov 2012 #32

Try finding some evidence, any evidence, a tiny bit of evidence Coyotl Nov 2012 #63

Why? 99Forever Nov 2012 #101

How do you know I'm not Anonymous? Coyotl Nov 2012 #138

+1 D23MIURG23 Nov 2012 #147

Time For Sunlight... KharmaTrain Nov 2012 #15

they'll never release any evidence because their claims are pure, unadulterated bullshit nt RomneyLies Nov 2012 #16

And your credentials are? HangOnKids Nov 2012 #192

Lol funny, you don't know much about Anonymous do you? sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #234

Rove is vulnerable because the untouchables aren't going to protect him anymore. Baitball Blogger Nov 2012 #18

Good point - I never thought of that. n/t Raksha Nov 2012 #76

They wouldn't. They don't have any. MineralMan Nov 2012 #20

^^^ This ^^^ n/t RomneyLies Nov 2012 #25

Yeah, I am with you on that one. Jennicut Nov 2012 #30

They also made all the Unicorns invisible. Ikonoklast Nov 2012 #44

At least one person sees through the logic. Thanks for making it so clear Coyotl Nov 2012 #66

Ninja? I can see the whites of your eyes. MineralMan Nov 2012 #71

You only *think* you're seeing my beady eyeballs. Ikonoklast Nov 2012 #124

Ninja are Japanese.. AsahinaKimi Nov 2012 #231

You sure do not know much about the history of Anonymous. I imagine sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #235

"They" being someone on pastebin toddaa Nov 2012 #61

They took down Thom Hartmann too, big time. He's toast now, hook, line, and sinker Coyotl Nov 2012 #69

The Velvet Revolution has nothing to do with Anonymous toddaa Nov 2012 #77

Your hypothesis is certainly more likely than the bullshit claims about "the Great Oz" nt RomneyLies Nov 2012 #73

Lol, I just love the fact that they are so successful at what they do best. sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #227

I agree with Prosense...I would love to have proof Horse with no Name Nov 2012 #24

Thanks, and it would go a long way ProSense Nov 2012 #28

I agree too....but with your other position LiberalLovinLug Nov 2012 #145

Anonymous should be in jail. Rove will never be convicted, therefore waste tax payer money graham4anything Nov 2012 #26

And just WHY should Anonymous be in jail??? WinkyDink Nov 2012 #130

what she is doing is illegal and terroristic graham4anything Nov 2012 #154

she? Rosa Luxemburg Nov 2012 #187

Why werent the votes recounted in the three counties that gave Bush the win in 2004" Baitball Blogger Nov 2012 #29

Where did you get that disinformation? Coyotl Nov 2012 #72

I got my information on the three counties from here" Baitball Blogger Nov 2012 #82

Correct but PATRICK Nov 2012 #31

For the same reason everyone else does. Hav Nov 2012 #33

Or what? 99Forever Nov 2012 #41

You seriously believe that Anonymous did what they claim they did? RomneyLies Nov 2012 #53

Actually it is very feasible under current technology nadinbrzezinski Nov 2012 #62

WHAT? Does someone actually believe that the video was Anonymous? Coyotl Nov 2012 #74

Make shit up much? 99Forever Nov 2012 #139

Of course our beliefs are relevant. D23MIURG23 Nov 2012 #167

Oh my! 99Forever Nov 2012 #178

At least you are consistent. D23MIURG23 Nov 2012 #182

I'm more interested in the ... 99Forever Nov 2012 #189

OK, well in that case try harder. D23MIURG23 Nov 2012 #193

WTF is that supposed to mean? 99Forever Nov 2012 #194

Thinking isn't your strong suit is it? D23MIURG23 Nov 2012 #202

Birthers and flat-earthers don't give a shit about what we say or believe, either. NYC Liberal Nov 2012 #111

Oh noes! 99Forever Nov 2012 #151

I don't care how they feel. NYC Liberal Nov 2012 #175

Apparently you do care. 99Forever Nov 2012 #177

I said I don't care how they feel. I DO care about people making extraordinary claims NYC Liberal Nov 2012 #179

Again... 99Forever Nov 2012 #184

I think some of us give a shit about whether liberals look as foolish as truthers and creationists. D23MIURG23 Nov 2012 #146

"In order for evil to flourish, all that is required is for good men to do nothing." Kaleva Nov 2012 #34

Precisely. Anonymous operates outside of the law. Warren Stupidity Nov 2012 #35

Finally, femrap Nov 2012 #57

Because an anonymous poster on line demanded it nadinbrzezinski Nov 2012 #36

Yeah, screw evidence! Still, ProSense Nov 2012 #38

Evidence tells anon nadinbrzezinski Nov 2012 #40

"That nope it is not healthy...to turn against the powerful." ProSense Nov 2012 #42

Look, you still believe in life, liberty and the American justice system nadinbrzezinski Nov 2012 #48

Only fear can save us. ProSense Nov 2012 #52

There s more nadinbrzezinski Nov 2012 #60

"The evidence was illegally obtained, so guess what? Rove walks. It is not admissible in court." ProSense Nov 2012 #65

Go ask a lawyer nadinbrzezinski Nov 2012 #70

"Anon, by it's very nature, is engaged in illegal activities" ProSense Nov 2012 #78

5th amendment is not a non sequitur. nadinbrzezinski Nov 2012 #129

The exclusionary rule does not apply to grand jury proceedings... Kaleva Nov 2012 #83

They took down that PR firm without lawyers or courts. DirkGently Nov 2012 #91

The letter they released describing the process nadinbrzezinski Nov 2012 #141

Believing w/o evidence is funnier DirkGently Nov 2012 #183

Read the myriad of news stories nadinbrzezinski Nov 2012 #188

Oh, is there a story saying ORCA was a vote-flipping program? DirkGently Nov 2012 #197

You are right, it is getting silly nadinbrzezinski Nov 2012 #207

And at least one of those machines was recalibrated and put back into service. randome Nov 2012 #208

I didn't say it was impossible. I said lack of evidence isn't evidence. DirkGently Nov 2012 #210

Nah, not a strawman nadinbrzezinski Nov 2012 #215

Illegal evidence is admissible if the government wasn't the lawbreaker. jeff47 Nov 2012 #165

And you think there will be this agreement? nadinbrzezinski Nov 2012 #170

Try reading that again. jeff47 Nov 2012 #240

You obviously have missed what happens to Whistle Blowers in this sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #239

Example jeff47 Nov 2012 #245

Look at all the evidence of War Crimes there is, yet sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #122

Yeah, good ProSense Nov 2012 #125

I'm not sure what you are saying. Are you being sarcastic or sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #134

This has jumped the shark. Loudestlib Nov 2012 #39

Don't fall for that BULLSHIT story. Coyotl Nov 2012 #43

You know add blocker is a god send from the gods. nadinbrzezinski Nov 2012 #49

K & R Change has come Nov 2012 #45

One reason is the sake of their own reputation... Bluenorthwest Nov 2012 #50

What is there not to get about no having immunity from felony charges and reveling TheKentuckian Nov 2012 #93

Other people have used the necessity defense. Bluenorthwest Nov 2012 #126

Whistle blowers are a threatened species in today's America. sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #152

Not plausible. Plenty of journos would run with it. DirkGently Nov 2012 #55

Et Tu Manny? I can tell you why they *would* release evidence cthulu2016 Nov 2012 #67

Please, ProSense Nov 2012 #75

You left out the ones who think secret police are a good idea Fumesucker Nov 2012 #81

That's the central fallacy here. Exposure would be easy. If this were real. DirkGently Nov 2012 #211

�The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting,"Sun Tzu, The Art of War Blue4Texas Nov 2012 #86

Anonymous=Tooth Fairy blue neen Nov 2012 #90

Why should we just believe them? treestar Nov 2012 #94

Unless there's a video or a recording---Rove is super safe. n/t vaberella Nov 2012 #97

nor was the letter signed by Anonymous. robinlynne Nov 2012 #102

and why would they hand this evidence over to the current party in power boilerbabe Nov 2012 #104

This is all a nice diversion The Wizard Nov 2012 #106

Members of Anonymous are currently busy punishing the insane government of Israel. Fire Walk With Me Nov 2012 #108

If Patrick Fitzgerald couldn't get him with all the evidence sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #113

Is there Any Need for Anonymous to do More? PrMaine Nov 2012 #115

They may have reasons for witholding their proof, but with no proof their claims NYC Liberal Nov 2012 #117

To put Rove on more than just "alert." TO SCARE HIM for the NEXT TIME. WinkyDink Nov 2012 #127

I hear Anon stopped Obama from cutting SS by 22% too!...nt SidDithers Nov 2012 #131

So what do you think of Obama putting SS on the Deficit table? sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #137

I hear Anon can't stop non-Democrats from posting on DU. WinkyDink Nov 2012 #140

I'm glad I wore my waders to this thread Coyotl Nov 2012 #160

Why should anonoymous play by the "legal" rules, when those that they are targeting don't operate in firehorse Nov 2012 #142

Did Anonymous actually make this claim or was it someone pretending to be Anonymous? Kaleva Nov 2012 #144

It was somneone doing a very poor job of pretending to be anonymous. Cheap vid at best Coyotl Nov 2012 #157

Hahahaha! DevonRex Nov 2012 #148

It's obvious. Because the Third Way says so, due to the fact that they need Zorra Nov 2012 #159

Excellent post as usual. I am hoping that over the next two years sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #162

I'm hoping that in the next two years ProSense Nov 2012 #169

Well if you can present some evidence that War Criminals sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #172

What? ProSense Nov 2012 #174

That's not exactly the argument. Zorra Nov 2012 #186

"We don't trust the government to do the right thing" ProSense Nov 2012 #201

You don't trust the government, the people you elect. randome Nov 2012 #203

So, like, did you trust George W. Bush and Dick Cheney? And how'd that work out for ya? Zorra Nov 2012 #229

An anonymous email. randome Nov 2012 #230

So why are you implying that I should trust elected officials over Anonymous? Zorra Nov 2012 #233

Wow, ProSense Nov 2012 #164

What's amazing is the argument that not only is providing evidence unncessary, NYC Liberal Nov 2012 #180

Yep. allrevvedup Nov 2012 #181

Kind of like faith. The more it's not there, the more it IS! DirkGently Nov 2012 #195

It sounds like people who still believe in Santa Claus. randome Nov 2012 #196

And once again you demonstrate a total lack of knowledge of sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #221

Rove is irrelevant. randome Nov 2012 #222

BS, if YOU are hoping for some 'shadowy' savior then speak for yourself. sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #226

Are you calling me a snake? SSSSSSSSSSS. randome Nov 2012 #228

Like I said, you have very little knowledge of Anonymous. sabrina 1 Nov 2012 #232

It might be different if certain parties were more inclined to prosecute criminals Zorra Nov 2012 #242

I think electronic voting is a danger & 3rd way is bullshit. But so's this theory. DirkGently Nov 2012 #200

Full disclosure, I don't claim to know what is going on. TheKentuckian Nov 2012 #223

+1 leftstreet Nov 2012 #220

So how 2naSalit Nov 2012 #163

in politics there is no such thing as untouchable. if you become toxic your 'friends' will piss on spanone Nov 2012 #199

A lot of the "establishment" would support crushing Rove. DirkGently Nov 2012 #213

Solidarity! bvar22 Nov 2012 #205

Yes, and I'm amazed others can't see the logic of this. n/t Cleita Nov 2012 #212

Isn't Turd Blossom toast now anyway? TexasBushwhacker Nov 2012 #218

I give them credit, regardless... MrMickeysMom Nov 2012 #237

How about, "Because the rest of us need to know how it's done" . . . ? MrModerate Nov 2012 #241