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In reply to the discussion: Serious question [View all]

pat_k

(10,883 posts)
128. The Way We Never Were
Thu Aug 1, 2024, 11:59 PM
Aug 2024

The Way We Never Were, by Stephanie Cootz, was recommended to me by someone here. I've been listening to the audiobook. Data isn't up to date (2nd edition more than a decade old), but 'm finding it an interesting read.

The calls for a return to so called "traditional values," where man is head and master of an idyllic traditional family that serves him, certainly seem to be getting louder. Such nostalgia for a time that never actually was strikes me as a fantasy immature men cling to. A fantasy that brings to mind the 1971 essay "I want a wife." I re-read it a week ago or so. Great stuff. If it's been awhile for you too (or if you never read it) here it is:
https://www.thecut.com/2017/11/i-want-a-wife-by-judy-brady-syfers-new-york-mag-1971.html

And on the subject of family myths:
Here's a little run down of a few of them:
https://www.stephaniecoontz.com/node/388




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1 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Serious question [View all] malaise Jul 2024 OP
It's cultural in many ways SocialDemocrat61 Jul 2024 #1
In my case, families. no_hypocrisy Jul 2024 #2
Same with us malaise Jul 2024 #7
Mum Kev80 Aug 2024 #110
You answered it malaise Aug 2024 #111
My father Rebl2 Jul 2024 #44
I had that kind of father, too. hamsterjill Aug 2024 #118
This whole worship of some grand outside presence bucolic_frolic Jul 2024 #3
god given rights AltairIV Jul 2024 #4
Cop pal told me about his mentor/partner when he was a rookie Chicago cop Attilatheblond Jul 2024 #17
Profound malaise Jul 2024 #26
religion is usually the root cause... Think. Again. Jul 2024 #5
Not so. Power was stripped from women before religions were formed. Prior to Abraham, and way before the Greeks, ancianita Jul 2024 #19
You just proved my point. Think. Again. Jul 2024 #20
There are indications that it started with agriculture Farmer-Rick Jul 2024 #33
Much of this began when men figured out they had something to do with conception. YodaMom2 Jul 2024 #43
Yes. The book, When God Was a Woman, BlueSky3 Jul 2024 #76
That stupid fking story about Adam & Eve OMGWTF Jul 2024 #48
That's not what the story of Adam and Eve was about at all. It was about free will having one parameter ancianita Jul 2024 #49
It has always been used... 2naSalit Jul 2024 #93
Sure. I hear you. Whether or not the Bible is misused ancianita Jul 2024 #95
Agree in part. summer_in_TX Jul 2024 #96
Well, the Bible as we know it today was assembled by men who decided... Beartracks Aug 2024 #98
That's quite possible. summer_in_TX Aug 2024 #99
True. ancianita Aug 2024 #102
Thanks for your post. Well, then, ancianita Aug 2024 #100
I went back to the definition of misogyny and realize you are right. summer_in_TX Aug 2024 #125
Followed soon afterwards by the failure of male Backseat Driver Jul 2024 #58
Japan is a very anti female society. JI7 Aug 2024 #124
I wish I had answers but I suspect that religion, superstition about menses, and ignorance are all in play. Lonestarblue Jul 2024 #6
Bookmarked for tonight malaise Jul 2024 #8
Patriarchal religions over SilverDawg Jul 2024 #9
Classic illustration here malaise Jul 2024 #11
Hormones? cachukis Jul 2024 #10
The age old question. 58Sunliner Jul 2024 #12
Ding ding. We have a winna!!! Ferrets are Cool Jul 2024 #13
I read a book about this subject,,,, many years ago now. KarenS Jul 2024 #14
You ask such difficult questions. Effed up describes it. twodogsbarking Jul 2024 #15
Cavewomen cyclonefence Jul 2024 #16
I have long felt that men fear our power over malaise Jul 2024 #24
There's a load of truth in this simple notion, imo. MontanaMama Jul 2024 #36
So they want to control it malaise Jul 2024 #38
With most right wing men they have a hard time getting with Eliot Rosewater Jul 2024 #52
I recommend people read the 4 volume world history of women by Marilyn French. The only one of its kind. ancianita Jul 2024 #18
Wow malaise Jul 2024 #27
More books... Silver Gaia Jul 2024 #61
Thanks malaise Jul 2024 #64
You are most welcome. Silver Gaia Jul 2024 #80
It's about time to ban some more books. Prairie_Seagull Jul 2024 #42
I was told by my high school guidance counselor in high school in 1959 . . . Bumbles Jul 2024 #21
Yes folks in those schools malaise Jul 2024 #28
Thankfully, you're never too old to dream - and, with good health, make things happen. Bumbles Jul 2024 #56
Fear birdographer Jul 2024 #22
Always a tough subject for the great and good men on our planet malaise Jul 2024 #30
Along with our freedom as females, the other something bigger at stake is ancianita Jul 2024 #50
Our Dad taught my brother and I to respect women Bluejeans Jul 2024 #23
You had a good dad malaise Jul 2024 #32
patriarchy, barbtries Jul 2024 #25
Lackanooki - it drives the incels crazy RainCaster Jul 2024 #29
Much of it is derived from the male-centric stance employed in monotheistic religious tomes. Magoo48 Jul 2024 #31
Patriarchies do like the Pa parts. Kid Berwyn Jul 2024 #34
Yes, fucking RELIGION. What a scam! People have to stop believing this idiocy. Sky Jewels Jul 2024 #35
A great post malaise Jul 2024 #40
Thanks, malaise. Sky Jewels Jul 2024 #41
Weak men project their weakness by demeaning women. usonian Jul 2024 #37
Younwould think so? malaise Jul 2024 #39
Great question. LoisB Jul 2024 #45
the strange thing is that it's getting worse paulkienitz Jul 2024 #46
That is what frightens me malaise Jul 2024 #47
Agree. ancianita Jul 2024 #53
Remember the powerful never willing give up their power. Big Blue Marble Jul 2024 #97
The Way We Never Were pat_k Aug 2024 #128
We know when that desert god came in, the status of women dropped like a rock Warpy Jul 2024 #51
Replacing hunter-gatherer tribes orthoclad Jul 2024 #68
They've got pretty good records of some transitional cultures Warpy Aug 2024 #123
I have wondered about this too. Don't these people have mothers? My mother has always been PatrickforB Jul 2024 #54
All. True - great points malaise Jul 2024 #63
You're right there. It isn't only the churches. It is also corporate culture. It is also the whole PatrickforB Jul 2024 #84
Lovely post malaise Aug 2024 #115
Great question SomedayKindaLove Jul 2024 #55
Backlash against Feminism Chakaconcarne Jul 2024 #57
Misogyny Is a Fear Reaction. MineralMan Jul 2024 #59
Profound malaise Aug 2024 #107
Patriarchy formed to control women and offspring, and men defending territory Beringia Jul 2024 #60
deep down Skittles Jul 2024 #62
Simple - Their Momma didn't raise them right! FHRRK Jul 2024 #65
Monotheism equals patriarchy orthoclad Jul 2024 #66
It is a great question mgardener Jul 2024 #67
I wonder about that too malaise Jul 2024 #69
Where in America is respect for women taught? dlk Jul 2024 #70
America? malaise Jul 2024 #72
Around the world, indeed dlk Jul 2024 #81
Ever wonder why teachers are so denigrated? SleeplessinSoCal Jul 2024 #89
Uneducated people are much easier to manipulate dlk Aug 2024 #121
It was always in movies and TV. I just watched a few early "Cheers" episodes and was appalled at the sexism guised Evolve Dammit Jul 2024 #71
True malaise Jul 2024 #74
The good news is that the Epsteins, Weinsteins, Cosby types have had various conclusions that may deter future abuses? Evolve Dammit Aug 2024 #116
Thanks malaise Aug 2024 #117
Hope they get power soon. We were out 9 days once in an ice storm. Never forget that. Evolve Dammit Aug 2024 #122
Fear of their own inadequacy, I suspect. n/t TygrBright Jul 2024 #73
It's Called "Grooming" BurnDoubt Jul 2024 #75
💯 pandr32 Jul 2024 #77
"religion" did not invent it. I grant that it has mostly made it worse rather than better. soldierant Jul 2024 #78
And that's the hard part. And I have no suggestins for that. malaise Jul 2024 #79
Thanks, malaise. soldierant Jul 2024 #92
Once there was a quaint notion called "Seven Virtues"... BurnDoubt Jul 2024 #83
It's complex and multifaceted, both question and answer MyMission Jul 2024 #82
Think of women in Afhganistan SpankMe Jul 2024 #85
I have theories. malthaussen Jul 2024 #86
Feelings of inadequacy. Oopsie Daisy Jul 2024 #87
It's ubiquitous iemanja Jul 2024 #88
Some boys learn it from their fathers, some learn it from the guys they meet in school who had fathers like that. Martin68 Jul 2024 #90
Biology Zeitghost Jul 2024 #91
Religion for the most part. The religious books be it Bible, Koran or whatever were written by men who claimed God appleannie1 Jul 2024 #94
I'm not familiar with it, elleng Aug 2024 #101
You're damn lucky! Duppers Aug 2024 #105
New York elleng Aug 2024 #106
I'm a man and have no idea why some men are like that. Doodley Aug 2024 #103
There are many good men malaise Aug 2024 #109
Some men Tweedy Aug 2024 #104
Too many possibilities? Experiences vary too much for a coverall answer? Brainfodder Aug 2024 #108
Its taught by word and example down through prodigitalson Aug 2024 #112
self loathing. Javaman Aug 2024 #113
They are afraid of us. mucholderthandirt Aug 2024 #114
I had a thought awhile back Marthe48 Aug 2024 #119
Then there's the vagina dentata myth... milestogo Aug 2024 #120
As a male, I can't explain it. OAITW r.2.0 Aug 2024 #126
Not me. I've loved and been loved. Lost one with regret, but ultimately foumd the love of my life. brush Aug 2024 #127
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