Eve Ensler on the passivity of men

[GaYellowDawg]

333. Your behavior here is cruel and arrogant.

Some things you might want to keep in mind.

First, I think you need to get past the penis when you're conversing with someone. Believe it or not, men can be actual people with actual feelings. When 'friend zone' was brought up, you immediately jumped to the conclusion that this was another 'nice guy' trying to worm his way into someone's pants with fake kindness. Now, there's no doubt that phenomenon exists, but you sure hit that button quickly. The white-hot scorn of this last reply... wow.

For me personally, I miss emotional intimacy a hell of a lot more than I do physical. There's a level of emotional intimacy you get with a partner that you just can't achieve with friends. For me, that's the meaning of 'friend zone.' For a lot of my male friends, the same applies. It's a dated, silly term, but generally, men who talk about the 'friend zone' would like to date someone, not just have sex with her. I miss buying gifts for someone. I miss doing random things to make someone smile. I miss doing random things on her chore list and watching her smile when she realizes she's got extra time that she can spend on something enjoyable. I miss cooking for someone. I miss listening to her, knowing that the listening helps her. None of these have anything to do with sex. They all have to do with caring. I'll do all these things for friends, but it's different with a partner. There's a difference between loving and being loved as a friend, and loving and being loved as a partner. I am blessed with the former. I miss the latter very much.

Being alone can be a serious problem for men. We have much higher stress baselines, live shorter lives, and are far more prone to depression as compared to men who have partners. These aren't random assertions. They are facts borne out by medical studies. People who are lonely merit compassion, not contempt - even men. This is where seabeyond's "you're bitter because you're not good enough for us" theme as versed above becomes problematic, as well.

I can't recall a single time that I've ever seen you say something kind about men. I've never seen anything but vicious, slashing, contemptuous anger from you towards my gender. That observation does come with caveats; a) I'm very willing to admit that I haven't read all of your posts and I could simply have missed something; b) you do make valid points some of the time;
c) you don't represent all women, any more than one Asian person represents all Asian women, so my disagreements with you are personal.

While it's a very valid thing for you to demand understanding, compassion, and action for women as a whole, it's pretty difficult to deal with the incredibly vituperative nature of your dialogue and with you personally. It's difficult to have a frank dialogue with someone who brings a machete to a debate. It parallels the difficulty with modern feminist/postfeminist epistemology; when "masculine" becomes a synonym for "negative" and "feminine" is the synonym for "good," it's not easy to gain a lot of appreciation for that epistemology from men. When I've read it, I've had to ignore the knee-jerk reaction to that set of assumptions and try to parse out a researcher or writer's intent.

I am not telling you that you should be submissive. I'm not telling you that you have to agree with anyone. I am telling you that I think it'd be a good idea for you to try to gain an understanding of what someone is trying to communicate before obliterating it. I also think that it'd be a good idea for you (and seabeyond, for that matter) to treat men as individuals, not as part of a monolithic collective. Just because there are 'nice guys' out there doesn't mean that the man who responded to you is. Just because there are sexists out there doesn't mean that the man who disagrees with you is. Just because there are misogynists out there doesn't mean that the people who argue with you are. When you're not snarling at someone, both you and seabeyond talk of educating others on DU. As an educator, I can tell you something that crosses all racial, socioeconomic, and gender lines: patience and humor work, and insults and anger don't.

Take care.