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In reply to the discussion: Revealed: the top secret rules that allow NSA to use US data without a warrant [View all]Catherina
(35,568 posts)93. "exceptionally grave damage" v "serious damage" if made public and means of collection
It's the difference between "exceptionally grave damage" to national security if made publicly available and "serious damage".
These documents are purely administrative and everything in them is either secret or unclassified except for one small part in Exhibit A.
This is the only thing in Exhibit A that's Top Secret. Notice that all of it is NoForn (No Foreigners) and restricted (SI)
Information contained in various NSA-maintained knowledge databases containing
foreign intelligence information acquired by any lawful means, such as electronic
surveillance, physical search, or the use of a pen register and trap or trace device, or
other information, reveals that the telephone number has been previously used by an
individual associated with a foreign power or foreign territory;
(TS//SI//NF) The NSA knowledge databases that would be used to satisfy this factor contain fused intelligence information concerning international terrorism culled from signals intelligence, human intelligence, law enforcement information and other sources. The information compiled in these databases is information that assists the signals intelligence system in effecting collection on intelligence targets. For example, a report produced by the CIA may include a fact that a known terrorist is using a telephone with a particular number. NSA would include that information in its knowledge in its knowledge databases.
foreign intelligence information acquired by any lawful means, such as electronic
surveillance, physical search, or the use of a pen register and trap or trace device, or
other information, reveals that the telephone number has been previously used by an
individual associated with a foreign power or foreign territory;
(TS//SI//NF) The NSA knowledge databases that would be used to satisfy this factor contain fused intelligence information concerning international terrorism culled from signals intelligence, human intelligence, law enforcement information and other sources. The information compiled in these databases is information that assists the signals intelligence system in effecting collection on intelligence targets. For example, a report produced by the CIA may include a fact that a known terrorist is using a telephone with a particular number. NSA would include that information in its knowledge in its knowledge databases.
I'm pretty sure it's because of the reference to means of collection, the pen registers & trap and trace devices. Both Bush and Obama had a lot of legal problems over the use of pen registers & trap and trace devices because they violate Federal law. They record information on all incoming and outgoing calls for a particular data line. These are what NSA was using to siphon "e-mail metadata and technical records of Skype calls from data links owned by AT&T, Sprint and MCI, which later merged with Verizon". There's speculation that it was over these that Goldsmith/Comey threatened to resign under Bush. Orin Kerr of Washington University Law Dept wrote something up about that here.
That's also the only place in the document were they mention the fused intelligence database which contains intelligence from multiple agencies within the Intelligence Community.
The ACLU has been very hot about the increasing use of pen registers & trap and trace devices and the DOJ repeatedly denied that they were using these without a warrant or in any inappropriate manner.
...
Federal law enforcement agents misled judges for years on what type of wiretaps they were carrying out when they requested permission for so-called pen register searches, an email obtained by the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) reveals.
Instead of collecting data on incoming and outgoing callers (among other general information), as pen register searches are intended to do, the ACLU said that agents commonly used a vehicle-mounted technology called the stingray that intercepts all nearby communications in order to pinpoint the location of a particular signal. The ACLU argues that these devices in effect resulted in a de facto wiretap, when that was not yet authorized.
A Freedom of Information Act Request (FOIA) filed by the ACLU returned a revealing email about the use of stingrays in law enforcement, showing the office of the United States Attorney for the Northern District of California warning agents to be more specific about the type of technology employed in pen register requests.
As some of you may be aware, our office has been working closely with the magistrate judges in an effort to address their collective concerns regarding whether a pen register is sufficient to authorize the use of law enforcements WIT technology (a box that simulates a cell tower and can be placed inside a van to help pinpoint an individuals location with some specificity) to locate an individual, the email explained. It has recently come to my attention that many agents are still using WIT technology in the field although the pen register application does not make that explicit.
While we continue work on a long term fix for this problem, it is important that we are consistent and forthright in our pen register requests to the magistrates, the email concludes.
In other words, the federal government was routinely using stingray technology in the field, but failing to make that explicit in its applications to the court to engage in electronic surveillance, ACLU staff attorney Linda Lye wrote in an advisory. When the magistrate judges in the Northern District of California finally found out what was happening, they expressed collective concerns, according to the emails.
...
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/03/28/aclu-email-reveals-feds-misled-judges-to-abuse-wiretapping-powers/
Federal law enforcement agents misled judges for years on what type of wiretaps they were carrying out when they requested permission for so-called pen register searches, an email obtained by the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) reveals.
Instead of collecting data on incoming and outgoing callers (among other general information), as pen register searches are intended to do, the ACLU said that agents commonly used a vehicle-mounted technology called the stingray that intercepts all nearby communications in order to pinpoint the location of a particular signal. The ACLU argues that these devices in effect resulted in a de facto wiretap, when that was not yet authorized.
A Freedom of Information Act Request (FOIA) filed by the ACLU returned a revealing email about the use of stingrays in law enforcement, showing the office of the United States Attorney for the Northern District of California warning agents to be more specific about the type of technology employed in pen register requests.
As some of you may be aware, our office has been working closely with the magistrate judges in an effort to address their collective concerns regarding whether a pen register is sufficient to authorize the use of law enforcements WIT technology (a box that simulates a cell tower and can be placed inside a van to help pinpoint an individuals location with some specificity) to locate an individual, the email explained. It has recently come to my attention that many agents are still using WIT technology in the field although the pen register application does not make that explicit.
While we continue work on a long term fix for this problem, it is important that we are consistent and forthright in our pen register requests to the magistrates, the email concludes.
In other words, the federal government was routinely using stingray technology in the field, but failing to make that explicit in its applications to the court to engage in electronic surveillance, ACLU staff attorney Linda Lye wrote in an advisory. When the magistrate judges in the Northern District of California finally found out what was happening, they expressed collective concerns, according to the emails.
...
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/03/28/aclu-email-reveals-feds-misled-judges-to-abuse-wiretapping-powers/
And this just in, press release from the ACLU, is part of the serious damage
NSA Claims Broad Authority to Monitor Americans' International Calls and Emails
Agency Retains Purely Domestic Communications Without Warrants, Documents Show
June 20, 2013
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
CONTACT: 212-549-2666, media@aclu.org
NEW YORK The government is engaged in warrantless surveillance of innocent Americans' international communications, according to secret FISA Court documents released today by The Guardian. Jameel Jaffer, American Civil Liberties Union deputy legal director, made the following comments about the latest revelations:
"After Congress enacted the FISA Amendments Act in 2008, we worried that the NSA would use the new authority to conduct warrantless surveillance of Americans' telephone calls and emails. These documents confirm many of our worst fears. The 'targeting' procedures indicate that the NSA is engaged in broad surveillance of Americans' international communications.
"The 'minimization' procedures that supposedly protect Americans' constitutional rights turn out to be far weaker than we imagined they could be. For example, the NSA claims the authority to collect and disseminate attorney-client communications and even, in some circumstances, to turn them over to Justice Department prosecutors. The government also claims the authority to retain Americans' purely domestic communications in certain situations."
ACLU Staff Attorney Alex Abdo said:
"Collectively, these documents show indisputably that the legal framework under which the NSA operates is far too feeble, that existing oversight mechanisms are ineffective, and that the government's surveillance policies now present a serious and ongoing threat to our constitutional rights. The release of these documents will help inform a crucial public debate that should have taken place years ago."
http://www.aclu.org/national-security/nsa-claims-broad-authority-monitor-americans-international-calls-and-emails
Agency Retains Purely Domestic Communications Without Warrants, Documents Show
June 20, 2013
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
CONTACT: 212-549-2666, media@aclu.org
NEW YORK The government is engaged in warrantless surveillance of innocent Americans' international communications, according to secret FISA Court documents released today by The Guardian. Jameel Jaffer, American Civil Liberties Union deputy legal director, made the following comments about the latest revelations:
"After Congress enacted the FISA Amendments Act in 2008, we worried that the NSA would use the new authority to conduct warrantless surveillance of Americans' telephone calls and emails. These documents confirm many of our worst fears. The 'targeting' procedures indicate that the NSA is engaged in broad surveillance of Americans' international communications.
"The 'minimization' procedures that supposedly protect Americans' constitutional rights turn out to be far weaker than we imagined they could be. For example, the NSA claims the authority to collect and disseminate attorney-client communications and even, in some circumstances, to turn them over to Justice Department prosecutors. The government also claims the authority to retain Americans' purely domestic communications in certain situations."
ACLU Staff Attorney Alex Abdo said:
"Collectively, these documents show indisputably that the legal framework under which the NSA operates is far too feeble, that existing oversight mechanisms are ineffective, and that the government's surveillance policies now present a serious and ongoing threat to our constitutional rights. The release of these documents will help inform a crucial public debate that should have taken place years ago."
http://www.aclu.org/national-security/nsa-claims-broad-authority-monitor-americans-international-calls-and-emails
This is something where we'll need to trust the ACLU and not any of the self-annointed legal experts telling everyone to move on, nothing to see here, it's all legal.
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Revealed: the top secret rules that allow NSA to use US data without a warrant [View all]
Catherina
Jun 2013
OP
That depends on your interpretation of 3(b)(4), 5(2) and 6(b)(8) of the document.
Pholus
Jun 2013
#145
Every attorney who gives a shit about his or her ethical obligations to clients should
HardTimes99
Jun 2013
#146
this is _it_ there is no escaping this now, this is willful misinterpretation of the intent
Monkie
Jun 2013
#12
And, I guess, some of the analysts work for Booz Allen which I hear is owned by the Carlyle
byeya
Jun 2013
#3
You nailed that part of it. We are paying for all of this and Bushco makes the profit n/t
Catherina
Jun 2013
#4
Or where John Edwards was going to meet his mistress, and Ellitiot Spitzer, and and and
Catherina
Jun 2013
#11
I've decided to look on the bright side. Soviet jokes *were* falling out of fashion.
Pholus
Jun 2013
#8
Only two hours? The CIA advisor probably said, "Let's wrap this up." That always works with a mummy.
randome
Jun 2013
#20
so you two doing the classic derailment or you actually going to say anything on topic?
Monkie
Jun 2013
#25
because 3 of the points make a circular argument, breaking the seeming intent of the law
Monkie
Jun 2013
#9
data/content from a US machine, im sorry, if you cant see this there just is no hope for you
Monkie
Jun 2013
#19
i never used the word bullshit, or called constitutional lawyers with harvard education a joke
Monkie
Jun 2013
#31
The domestic communication section in the doc states that inadvertent collections are
BenzoDia
Jun 2013
#21
Well then the Guardian needs to produce some FBI docs to back up their claims of abuse.
BenzoDia
Jun 2013
#28
The Guardian doesn't seem to be in the business of producing anything concrete
railsback
Jun 2013
#40
With their painfully long walls of text to beat their average readers into agreement.
BenzoDia
Jun 2013
#46
i can relate to that, for me its not the personal attacks, its the casual racism and
Monkie
Jun 2013
#73
Have any Military Intel Lawyers arrived yet? They're all over twitter blowing a gasket
Catherina
Jun 2013
#68
we had/have a pretend lawyer here, not sure if they were intel or not, stupid yes
Monkie
Jun 2013
#72
the bbc is ignoring this too, so similar, but without advertising or captain crunch
Monkie
Jun 2013
#107
No kidding. If it wasn't a Guardian article, I'd suspect that the NSA purposely leaked those to
BenzoDia
Jun 2013
#54
a day ago it was, we never target americans by accident to, oh well, we guess and go by a 51% chance
Monkie
Jun 2013
#92
This needs to be its own OP, imo. Very powerful stuff you've written here and it
HardTimes99
Jun 2013
#152
Yeah, I saw it and am glad he made it an OP. Thanks for the heads-up! - nt
HardTimes99
Jun 2013
#186
"heaviest users of PGP-encrypted email are lawyers handling confidential, privileged attorney-client
Catherina
Jun 2013
#117
"exceptionally grave damage" v "serious damage" if made public and means of collection
Catherina
Jun 2013
#93
If they're contacting overseas they're fair game, even if a reasonable suspicion.
Catherina
Jun 2013
#116
No, I am not a racist hater. I am a self-hating Black hater. Whatever the fuck that is
Catherina
Jun 2013
#129
You mean like the unravelling of OWS? Lol! When you make predictions like this I
sabrina 1
Jun 2013
#161
no worries, and yes it was pretty harsh, but you arent being called a racist either?
Monkie
Jun 2013
#170
Inadvertently! Well, that covers a lot. It gives a perfect excuse to those who are caught
sabrina 1
Jun 2013
#159
Not to worry, soon they won't have to hide anything anymore. With some on the 'left' now joining the
sabrina 1
Jun 2013
#174
Is "Inadvertantly" like "Collateral Damage"? "Unfortunate Civilan Deaths"? "Acts of God"?
Tierra_y_Libertad
Jun 2013
#172