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GreenStormCloud

(12,072 posts)

61. That isn't the way disproportiante force is applied in self-defense law.

Wed Jul 3, 2013, 10:02 AM

Jul 2013

I have a Texas Concealed Handgun License and rountinely carry concealed everywhere I go, unless illegal to do so. I am also a senior citizen with a modest disability. If I should be attacked by a healthy, young, male mugger, I would not be able to adequately defend myself without my gun. The mugger enjoys a strong force advantage over me. Because he is the attacker, and because I have no idea of the amount of harm he intends to inflict upon me, and because he has to ability to do that harm, I have the legal right to defend myself using my gun. That is the way portionality of force is determined.

None of what I have just said is in defense of Zimmerman. I am explaining how proportionality of force works. Zimmerman appears to have instigated the confrontation which muddies up who was the agressor, hence the trial.

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ZIMMERMAN TRIAL: Day 8, Wednesday, July 3, 2013 [View all] GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 OP

Looks like they started early today. N/T GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #1

Hope she allows the wannabe evidence riverwalker Jul 2013 #2

Wannabe evidence is in... (nt) pokerfan Jul 2013 #9

O'Mara wants more time riverwalker Jul 2013 #3

he had time to go on AC360 riverwalker Jul 2013 #57

O'Mara really doesn't want the college records in. Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #4

The course in question taught specifically about SYG law Ruby the Liberal Jul 2013 #11

sounds like they don't know what the testimony riverwalker Jul 2013 #12

I'm glad the judge boxed his ears warrior1 Jul 2013 #5

yes!!!! riverwalker Jul 2013 #6

School records are admissible. nt Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #7

Goes to Z's motive warrior1 Jul 2013 #8

The evidence is in. bravenak Jul 2013 #10

nice!!! uponit7771 Jul 2013 #16

The defense tries this a lot Nevernose Jul 2013 #13

witness Sonja Boles-Melvin riverwalker Jul 2013 #14

This attorney reminds me of Skeletor.. HipChick Jul 2013 #15

Vladimir Lenin KurtNYC Jul 2013 #32

why did defense bring up bad credit riverwalker Jul 2013 #17

Not at all Lurks Often Jul 2013 #35

Riddle me this Ruby the Liberal Jul 2013 #18

well, now things get interesting..Zimmerman was the best student uponit7771 Jul 2013 #19

Well he shouldn't plead ignorance on self-defense laws. Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #28

If the defense thought bad credit is prejudicial, why did they bring it up? bravenak Jul 2013 #20

Captain Alexis Francisco Carter riverwalker Jul 2013 #21

BOOM! SYG introduced and Zimmy was one of the best students... Ruby the Liberal Jul 2013 #22

+1, by a lawyer!! NICE uponit7771 Jul 2013 #23

He learned about stand your ground and self defence . bravenak Jul 2013 #24

How do you have a 1.5 GPA? HipChick Jul 2013 #25

That one class being the only one he was interested in... uponit7771 Jul 2013 #26

...and here comes the Defense to discredit the Captain Ruby the Liberal Jul 2013 #27

This guy isn't RJ, he's going to make it hard as heck for them uponit7771 Jul 2013 #29

I focused on Florida law .. boom...he's going to be harder to break than RJ. He knows where they're. uponit7771 Jul 2013 #30

All they have is that the course wasn't "specific" to Florida. madaboutharry Jul 2013 #31

They are going for the SYG defense Ruby the Liberal Jul 2013 #34

BOOM!!!! "did you cover Stand Your Ground"? riverwalker Jul 2013 #33

Look at his eyes Ruby the Liberal Jul 2013 #36

Isn't this giving... NCTraveler Jul 2013 #37

YES!!!...Good catch, the judge caught it too uponit7771 Jul 2013 #39

The professor isn't giving them what the defense wants. madaboutharry Jul 2013 #40

Where is the Defense going with this?! tia uponit7771 Jul 2013 #38

They want to confuse the jury. But the judge madaboutharry Jul 2013 #42

Did you hear Knock Knock's sigh? avebury Jul 2013 #41

This lawyer on the stand is good, he's going to now explani "imperfect" self defense uponit7771 Jul 2013 #43

"Disproportionate"..... Cuts both ways. Defense wants us to believe it only chelsea0011 Jul 2013 #48

Well now RGR375 Jul 2013 #56

keep dreaming noiretextatique Jul 2013 #184

Alexis Carter - JAG prosecutor and eye candy panAmerican Jul 2013 #44

I have a daughter I would like him to meet.. Ninga Jul 2013 #45

oh yeah riverwalker Jul 2013 #46

I want John Guy to randomly ask, "Hey dad, wanna have a catch?" Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #50

You're right! John Guy has a soothing, calming kind of voice panAmerican Jul 2013 #54

He is very cute.... madaboutharry Jul 2013 #47

While on the topic..... Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #49

"Disparpoetionate deadly force, like a gun shot" says therofessor.. Ninga Jul 2013 #51

the professor....we've come a long way from the first day of the trial uponit7771 Jul 2013 #59

Force meeting force HockeyMom Jul 2013 #52

That isn't the way disproportiante force is applied in self-defense law. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #61

I think Zimmerman had only one hand to "defend" himself Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #62

The same could be said for Trayvon's right to defend himself. Just Saying Jul 2013 #72

Not the way it works. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #78

Total bs Just Saying Jul 2013 #89

Check out the U.S. Army height/weight/age standards. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #97

Zimmy was 185 lbs. Not 200. He is obese now, but did not weigh 200 Lbs at time of shooting. uppityperson Jul 2013 #119

200 lbs. See link. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #125

I was going by what was by his photo, this. Thank you. uppityperson Jul 2013 #132

Trayvon last played football at age 13 JimDandy Jul 2013 #217

Thank you for taking the time to counter the claims. It gets old and I appreciate your doing it. nt uppityperson Jul 2013 #218

Justice requires the truth. Happy to do it. JimDandy Jul 2013 #224

Thanks for the corrrection regarding football. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #233

As have you. Just Saying Jul 2013 #240

I am not a Z fan. I have posted several times that I think he is guilty of manslaughter. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #245

You rock! Just Saying Jul 2013 #241

Awe, thanks! JimDandy Jul 2013 #242

Hockey mom you obviously don't know fl law ceonupe Jul 2013 #187

The major difference in Florida HockeyMom Jul 2013 #204

Wrong ceonupe Jul 2013 #219

Fleeing is the same as retreat HockeyMom Jul 2013 #229

Handgun vs. Hands bravenak Jul 2013 #53

wrong again RGR375 Jul 2013 #58

...and REASONABLE is a judged by Jury as Knock Knock stated in his own filibuster uponit7771 Jul 2013 #60

Reasonable fear. bravenak Jul 2013 #66

I would not follow anybody RGR375 Jul 2013 #74

I haven't seen any proof that his head was beat into the concrete. bravenak Jul 2013 #76

The cuts on the back of his head RGR375 Jul 2013 #116

Maybe they wrestled through those bushes Trayvon was supposedly hiding in. uppityperson Jul 2013 #118

The body of the victim was found nowhere near the concrete. bravenak Jul 2013 #123

Nowhere near the concrete? GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #135

Jump up in surprise and take a few steps? bravenak Jul 2013 #139

Well, hell. Trayvon then managed to tuck his arms back under his body by the time others got there uppityperson Jul 2013 #156

This goes back to that wonderful post saying " Trayvon should have just dodged the bullet" bravenak Jul 2013 #169

Dr. Bao has just testified that TM was alive for 1 to 10 minutes after he was shot. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #247

He also said that Trayvon couldn't move after he was shot. Nt bravenak Jul 2013 #248

don't forget the part where he sez "ya got me!" frylock Jul 2013 #172

and: "You're going to die tonight" noiretextatique Jul 2013 #178

made it, ma! top of the world! frylock Jul 2013 #182

right...how many 17yo kids talk like that in 2013? noiretextatique Jul 2013 #188

keep repeating that lie noiretextatique Jul 2013 #179

Ah, then you get into the reasonable person standard HockeyMom Jul 2013 #68

I read an article riverwalker Jul 2013 #90

My friend the Sensi HockeyMom Jul 2013 #106

Martin was probably afraid for his own life as well he should have been. lumpy Jul 2013 #166

today's link Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #55

Here's the live link I use displacedtexan Jul 2013 #67

thanks very much! I will check it out. Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #198

what the hell? n/t riverwalker Jul 2013 #63

LOL! 4 dozen people calling into the Skype connection Ruby the Liberal Jul 2013 #64

They don't have their SKYPE account setup correctly HipChick Jul 2013 #70

SKYPE AMATEUR TIME! HipChick Jul 2013 #65

He wanted to be a prosecutor. bravenak Jul 2013 #69

Does that guy sound like Costner to you too? uponit7771 Jul 2013 #71

Yes, he does. pintobean Jul 2013 #73

I predict he will do an excellent closing. Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #199

Yup, riverwalker said the same thing earlier panAmerican Jul 2013 #77

Indeed he does. Not gonna hurt with the mzmolly Jul 2013 #151

is this true about the weapon warrior1 Jul 2013 #75

So says MSNBC legal analyst, Atty Bloom. Ninga Jul 2013 #79

Atty Bloom said the prosecution was to demonstrate that the gun Ninga Jul 2013 #81

Well that's interesting. warrior1 Jul 2013 #83

It is impossible to cock a Kel-Tec PF9. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #82

you'd have to tell me warrior1 Jul 2013 #87

No, it's double action only (DAO) pokerfan Jul 2013 #84

I thought I heard atty Bloom say that the bullet had to be loaded first into the chamber Ninga Jul 2013 #88

All guns have to have that done prior to firing. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #100

Right pokerfan Jul 2013 #115

I heard him cock the gun while exiting his truck on the 911 mzmolly Jul 2013 #152

That type of gun can not be cocked Lurks Often Jul 2013 #235

Semantics. I heard him pull the slide back mzmolly Jul 2013 #243

Not semantics Lurks Often Jul 2013 #244

It is relevant. mzmolly Jul 2013 #250

Then based on your own cite, you have just proven you did not hear the slide drawn back Lurks Often Jul 2013 #252

I heard what sounded like him, readying his gun. mzmolly Jul 2013 #253

Very familiar with those sounds Lurks Often Jul 2013 #254

He was out of his truck by that time. mzmolly Jul 2013 #255

Speculation Lurks Often Jul 2013 #256

Uh huh. mzmolly Jul 2013 #260

Believe what you like, Lurks Often Jul 2013 #262

You didn't see testimony saying he had a bullet mzmolly Jul 2013 #263

Of course he had a bullet in the chamber Lurks Often Jul 2013 #264

Ahhh, protection. mzmolly Jul 2013 #268

My answer had nothing to do with whether the shooting was justified or not, Lurks Often Jul 2013 #269

Listen to the testimony of the firearms expert. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #266

We mzmolly Jul 2013 #267

That is the seat belt being released. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #258

Funny. He was long out of his automobile at that mzmolly Jul 2013 #259

OK. My timeline was off. You still didn't hear the slide being racked. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #265

The testimony goes against you. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #246

More semantics. I heard what sounded like Z getting his gun ready. Understand? mzmolly Jul 2013 #249

His gun was already ready and needed no further preperation. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #257

I hope you don't shoot an innocent person, mzmolly Jul 2013 #261

This forensic witness is fascinating Ruby the Liberal Jul 2013 #80

She is very easy to understand, And I think not good for defense. Ninga Jul 2013 #85

Actually in this case ceonupe Jul 2013 #196

BAMB!!! A CONTACT SHOT!!! Meaning the Muzzles was AGAINST the fabric uponit7771 Jul 2013 #86

Yet Zimmerman says riverwalker Jul 2013 #99

Zimmy would've been better off to say "I don't know" rather than try to make things up uppityperson Jul 2013 #121

Well, what would one expect him to say, not that it truly matters. lumpy Jul 2013 #173

Yes. mzmolly Jul 2013 #153

I love this chick! Ruby the Liberal Jul 2013 #91

She is very smart and I love how she isn't letting him lead her 'round the rosy. madaboutharry Jul 2013 #92

He keeps trying to get her to express an opinion about degrees of safety Ruby the Liberal Jul 2013 #95

Yep, one sharp cookie! Her testimony about the clothing was in my opinion damaging to Ninga Jul 2013 #96

Defense is blah blah blah, trying to distance jury from her earlier testimony - good grief Ninga Jul 2013 #93

+1 uponit7771 Jul 2013 #94

Very typical questioning when you have nothing to say. madaboutharry Jul 2013 #98

ah, thx...means it most likely hurt them uponit7771 Jul 2013 #101

Defense is doing a good job with her. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #102

I don't think so, they established that the shot was at arms distance at least meaning there had to uponit7771 Jul 2013 #103

She made it clear that the gun was touching the fabric Lisa D Jul 2013 #104

Very clearly stated. Ninga Jul 2013 #110

How does that help the defense when Zimmerman claimed he thought the shot went wide Ruby the Liberal Jul 2013 #105

Doesn't. Ninga Jul 2013 #108

That he thought he missed is irrelevant to the positions. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #113

Good point, and a damn good reason to restrict people from carrying firearms in public. Hoyt Jul 2013 #122

HOW did Z straddle TM and spread his arms apart, yet TM had his arms under his body? uppityperson Jul 2013 #124

That requires speculaton on my part. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #131

Zimmerman claimed he wasn't sure if he even the gunshot even hit Trayvon. madaboutharry Jul 2013 #111

That is fairly common in self-defense shootings. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #120

And, a good reason Zimmerman and others should not be allowed to carry in public. Hoyt Jul 2013 #126

+1 mzmolly Jul 2013 #154

I haven't read that testimony, do you have a link to it? (Z shooting TM X3 in the back). uppityperson Jul 2013 #127

Google Jane Surdyka GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #145

She said she thought she heard 3 shots. Nothing about shooting into his back. uppityperson Jul 2013 #147

She claims that she saw Z on TM's back, then heard three shots. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #165

Heard her testimony also; never heard her say Martin was shot in the back; lumpy Jul 2013 #177

See my post #191 N/T GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #234

I think she said she heard three shots, not that she saw three shots into the back - hedgehog Jul 2013 #149

Correct. She does not say that the saw the shots, only heard three shots. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #162

Thank you , i had missed that. hedgehog Jul 2013 #170

Here is the testimony GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #191

So much, then, for "You got me!" Lies, lies, lies. WinkyDink Jul 2013 #159

By Zimmerman saying that Martin sat up and quoted (supposidly) Martins lumpy Jul 2013 #210

I am a mom, grandmother and a fair minded person. I think that already too much has been said Ninga Jul 2013 #107

+1 uponit7771 Jul 2013 #109

Having that tiny woman effortlessly pull the trigger for them Ruby the Liberal Jul 2013 #112

+1 Ninga Jul 2013 #114

Guns aren't designed to require heavy trigger pulls. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #117

Hey - it was the defense that kept trying to make a 4lb trigger pull Ruby the Liberal Jul 2013 #129

I don't see why they emphasized that. N/T GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #141

of course you wouldn't CatWoman Jul 2013 #221

If you have special insight, please share it. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #237

Two women on the jury RGR375 Jul 2013 #130

Outstanding. I wasn't aware of that. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #137

only one, the parrot lady riverwalker Jul 2013 #176

Well, While There Are Many Positive Comments For Prosecution.... ChiciB1 Jul 2013 #128

Because they want you to keep watching? Ruby the Liberal Jul 2013 #133

Faux was doing the same ... Myrina Jul 2013 #134

On that note RGR375 Jul 2013 #146

CNN and Headline News have been catering to the Zimmerman ... ThePhilosopher04 Jul 2013 #136

That's why I watch the WFTV live feed and commentary. displacedtexan Jul 2013 #142

I just watched CNN HL for a few minutes and was shocked to see their live chelsea0011 Jul 2013 #181

after testimony that Z studied SYG riverwalker Jul 2013 #138

not really RGR375 Jul 2013 #143

you mean like Trayvon? riverwalker Jul 2013 #174

++ Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #200

Two Women On Jury Are Very "Iffy" Because ChiciB1 Jul 2013 #175

Here you go: Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #183

Yep, That's The One... ChiciB1 Jul 2013 #226

Sorry, Forgot To Mention The Other Case. ChiciB1 Jul 2013 #227

I was fought over in Voir Dire HockeyMom Jul 2013 #216

So The Reality Really Is... ChiciB1 Jul 2013 #228

Because in a nut shell RGR375 Jul 2013 #140

if this is the law riverwalker Jul 2013 #144

It was over at "Initially provokes" Duer 157099 Jul 2013 #148

not a bruise, not a scratch riverwalker Jul 2013 #195

Zimmerman was on the ground RGR375 Jul 2013 #232

Which is moot Ruby the Liberal Jul 2013 #150

Walks? You have to believe he was in so much of a struggle that he feared for his chelsea0011 Jul 2013 #186

bullshit....zimmerman LIED again noiretextatique Jul 2013 #189

Consider the source. mzmolly Jul 2013 #155

Their recreation video has TM's clothing all wrong. displacedtexan Jul 2013 #160

that's the same stupid meme some keep posting here noiretextatique Jul 2013 #180

The judge has about had it with the defense arguing with her Ruby the Liberal Jul 2013 #157

That won't go anywhere. No trial has to be extended on the Defense's request. WinkyDink Jul 2013 #163

Thats good to know. Ruby the Liberal Jul 2013 #171

SHUT HIM UP, JUDGE. You have SAID the subject is OVER. WinkyDink Jul 2013 #158

Defense isn't prepared? Ninga Jul 2013 #161

too busy giving interviews riverwalker Jul 2013 #168

Here's the good ish .... uponit7771 Jul 2013 #164

Judge: talk to the hand. n/t riverwalker Jul 2013 #167

Zimmerman's lies about knowing full well how the STG law works Wash. state Desk Jet Jul 2013 #185

just a question here.. What is the difference whether zimmy knew about the SYG laws or not, besides HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #190

Uh....read your last four words. WinkyDink Jul 2013 #193

That he knew what to say to the police to seem innocent, goes against Serinos comments about him uponit7771 Jul 2013 #194

Well that's easy, Wash. state Desk Jet Jul 2013 #197

let's hope he doesn't get away with it this time noiretextatique Jul 2013 #192

What to make of the DNA evidence here? Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #201

No Zimmerman DNA under Trayvons fingernails riverwalker Jul 2013 #202

If I understood correctly, the only place Trayvon's blood was on Zimmerman Ruby the Liberal Jul 2013 #203

Over half Trayvon's blood was in his pleural cavities csziggy Jul 2013 #251

1. No DNA from Zimmy on TM's hands - mzmolly Jul 2013 #205

#4 excellent point riverwalker Jul 2013 #206

Not that I disagree, but how do you wash your own DNA away from your own hands? Duer 157099 Jul 2013 #225

Thanks. nt Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #207

YW. Just my understanding based upon a brief mzmolly Jul 2013 #211

and none on the cuffs which I think is especially significant Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #214

Yes. Excellent point, I forgot to include. mzmolly Jul 2013 #215

So WHY did the DNA expert just VOLUNTEER that evidence might have been stored incorrectly??? FGSake. WinkyDink Jul 2013 #208

If state plans to finish today, does that mean we don't hear autopsy report? Duer 157099 Jul 2013 #209

It might be stipulated to. Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #212

Regarding Zimmermans weight voteearlyvoteoften Jul 2013 #213

Related: I can explain the weight gain since (w/o jokes!) Nevernose Jul 2013 #220

Really, what was he prescribed? targetpractice Jul 2013 #222

Your basic adderall prescription. Nevernose Jul 2013 #223

Tegretol. Don't know if that is what Z was on, but fits your description. (I take it). nt s-cubed Jul 2013 #230

You're right, but I was wrong Nevernose Jul 2013 #231

Not Trazadone, but Temazepam according to this... targetpractice Jul 2013 #239

I found this on a Zimmerman trial blog. displacedtexan Jul 2013 #236

The rain didn't wash any of the other blood off zimmermans head or nose or the gun, they're uponit7771 Jul 2013 #238