General Discussion

JimDandy

(7,318 posts)

398. The writers of the constitution

Wed Jul 10, 2013, 01:15 AM

Jul 2013

Last edited Wed Jul 10, 2013, 01:56 AM - Edit history (1)

never envisioned an environment where those who used that right would be able to deliberately record audio and video statements of their version of events in a crime, then use those recordings in lieu of actually testifying on the stand, thus avoiding the questioning that justice demands of their version of events.

This tactic has made a perversion of the fifth. The law needs to be clarified so that defendants who voluntarily record statements explaining their version of events, either can not have those statements admitted into evidence at trial, or, if they are admitted, the defendants are declared to have waived their 5th amendment rights and have opened themselves up to questioning. They should not be able to have it both ways. Justice can not be served, as we have just seen in this case, when the defendant can use artifice such as this and still be able to plead the fifth.

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ZIMMERMAN TRIAL - AFTERNOON: Day 11, Tuesday, July 9, 2013 [View all] GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 OP

Putting PART 1 in titles, part 2 and editing the OP of the other with link to this one will help uppityperson Jul 2013 #1

Yes, I made an error in the way I posted. N/T GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #4

Whatever. Just thought it'd make things clearer. Nt uppityperson Jul 2013 #20

I do think that the PA can ask about the lack avebury Jul 2013 #2

He answered that customerserviceguy Jul 2013 #346

Thx! Zimmermans gun was on his butt cheek underneath his waste and shirt I find it hard to believe.. uponit7771 Jul 2013 #3

I really hope that the PA who handled the avebury Jul 2013 #5

Is this him? Jim__ Jul 2013 #6

No. But this guy is off to a great start. NT avebury Jul 2013 #7

No, this is De la Ronda. nt. premium Jul 2013 #8

IMHO, all three prosecutors come off more likeable than the two defense attorneys. Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #35

No question what so ever, all 3 PAs avebury Jul 2013 #38

PA comes out firing both barrels, good question. Why only the re-enactment?! uponit7771 Jul 2013 #9

PA, gets more in...the ME didn't take in all other accounts uponit7771 Jul 2013 #10

Why wouldn't an ME want to know everything about avebury Jul 2013 #11

depends on the case. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #12

...and then confirms that he only testified to the reenactment...ok uponit7771 Jul 2013 #14

Nonsense, they brought Dr. DiMaio Lurks Often Jul 2013 #15

...but he went off the reenactment though...isn't that what he said? uponit7771 Jul 2013 #17

I don't believe so, I believe he is going by the Lurks Often Jul 2013 #29

no he went by the edited materials the attorney gave him- same as the animator did. bettyellen Jul 2013 #412

"Hired Guns" Lurks Often Jul 2013 #413

no, I'm very happy how he fell apart on cross. especially how he called some witnesses liars, LOL. bettyellen Jul 2013 #414

Guess we saw different testimony then. n/t Lurks Often Jul 2013 #415

Witness not looking or sounding quite so confident now. nt avebury Jul 2013 #13

Prosecutors haven't refuted anything he's testified about yet. nt premium Jul 2013 #16

...other than the doc sayign he went off the reenacemnt only, if he was being objective he would've uponit7771 Jul 2013 #18

The Jury may perceive that his review of the case avebury Jul 2013 #19

"...I would say it..." to the question what if it were physically impossible to shoot TM uponit7771 Jul 2013 #21

bob kealing ‏@bobkealing 7m BDLR so far emphasizing incompleteness avebury Jul 2013 #22

shouldn't the prosecution be talking about the injuries and different ways to get them besides HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #23

The prosecutor will get to that soon. nt. premium Jul 2013 #25

I agree. This expert witness testifies primarily in civil cases and not criminal cases. avaistheone1 Jul 2013 #24

is the prosecution trying to say he was bought and paid for by asking how much he is getting paid HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #26

...no more than the PA's ME was bought and paid for via being nominated. Sounds like they both go uponit7771 Jul 2013 #27

Defense ME not looking good right now... uponit7771 Jul 2013 #28

on what points? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #30

being sure about Zimmmermans knuckles and bruises on them. He shoudl've been more concreate uponit7771 Jul 2013 #32

it sounds like that's what YOU wanted him to say... HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #36

I'm pretty close...I'll add (mine) at end of statement uponit7771 Jul 2013 #44

...also, fire and rescue glasgow of 15 uponit7771 Jul 2013 #34

Is he implying that the EMT's are not avebury Jul 2013 #33

k&r Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #31

I haven't watched today. Can anybody tell me Duer 157099 Jul 2013 #37

are your credentials better than his? do you have any medical reasoning why he would be wrong? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #41

Because he's a witness for the defense, that seems to be the driving force here nt. premium Jul 2013 #46

If you answer my question, I'll answer yours n/t Duer 157099 Jul 2013 #49

I think you are seeing what you want to see. How do you know that an injury CANT look like that? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #52

I am asking a specific question Duer 157099 Jul 2013 #58

yes. I thought that when he said there were red areas like that it meant the person was hitting not HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #60

I don't know, I am not watching the trial today Duer 157099 Jul 2013 #65

I have been watching and the ME pretty much says you are wrong... HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #70

You are talking about the specific area on his head that I am? Duer 157099 Jul 2013 #77

umm yes. the same spot the ME talked about. In the trial you have not been watching.. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #84

By hair follicles I mean visible ones with black hairs growing out of them Duer 157099 Jul 2013 #88

Im not sure what colocalize means? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #97

Colocalize = two things located in same place Duer 157099 Jul 2013 #100

so it has to be something besides being hit, right? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #103

I will always have an answer for something I think I have an answer to, yes Duer 157099 Jul 2013 #106

so what about the red bumps under the hair? what is that from? the redness is in a circle, HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #118

Prosector shows a picture of Zimmerman's bloody mouth Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #39

I saw that. Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #367

BAMB!!...PA "...I put my hand over that what do you expect to have on my hand..." answer BLOOD! uponit7771 Jul 2013 #40

PA is on a roll... uponit7771 Jul 2013 #42

And yet, premium Jul 2013 #48

Doen't have to refute everything just lay another persepctive as the Defense has done multiple times uponit7771 Jul 2013 #50

Very true, but it would help if the state could refute premium Jul 2013 #55

They got him to say that he didn't look at all the stories Z said and now is saying he'd have to loo uponit7771 Jul 2013 #56

That's not refuting anything he testified to, premium Jul 2013 #59

...and they don't HAVE to refute just give different perspectives. uponit7771 Jul 2013 #66

As I said, that's true, premium Jul 2013 #71

The pathologist different perspectives he gave during PA's questioning uponit7771 Jul 2013 #76

Of course naaman fletcher Jul 2013 #296

Observation by Bob Kealing: avebury Jul 2013 #43

PA is absolutely desparate friendlyFRIEND Jul 2013 #45

unnn, he's working the defense PA pretty good...got a couple of notable points from him on clothing uponit7771 Jul 2013 #47

I expected the PA to ask whethr Travon's shirt could have been twisted in the fight. Jim__ Jul 2013 #54

lol CatWoman Jul 2013 #51

class A insult there CatWoman friendlyFRIEND Jul 2013 #57

stay simple friend CatWoman Jul 2013 #61

this makes you look like a fool. n/t HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #63

let me guess CatWoman Jul 2013 #74

lets get back on topic. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #78

... CatWoman Jul 2013 #358

... Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #368

+1000 nt. polly7 Jul 2013 #378

lol CatWoman Jul 2013 #62

I don't understand friendlyFRIEND Jul 2013 #67

that they are better than you? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #75

"...because witness's are wrong all the time..." WTF?!?! This is the defenses ME!!! uponit7771 Jul 2013 #53

Bernie often looks spring loaded pintobean Jul 2013 #64

So basically if you're getting beat up to any level you can shoot someone because you don't know uponit7771 Jul 2013 #68

because a knife would have been better? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #72

Zimmerman would never have gotten out of his car with just a knife. Hoyt Jul 2013 #309

wasn't even going to bring it up, but you decided too... HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #335

Of course, Zimmerman didn't die or collapse later that day due to his head wounds. Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #69

+1, also Zimmerman had a bloody head in the pic soon before the cop came. They keep concentrating uponit7771 Jul 2013 #73

my thoughts exactly CatWoman Jul 2013 #79

You don't defend because of the wounds you have already taken. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #188

Good point customerserviceguy Jul 2013 #351

I am so sick of hearing this. Nine Jul 2013 #366

Because you who want to lynch Z claim that his wounds weren't serious enough for self-defense. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #370

Complete strawman. It has to do with ZIMMERMAN'S claims. (And "lynch"? Really?) Nine Jul 2013 #409

The question is customerserviceguy Jul 2013 #394

See my response above. Nine Jul 2013 #410

This witness's testimony is rather vacuous and, in the end, is... Spazito Jul 2013 #80

I don't know if it's his age, or what CatWoman Jul 2013 #83

Yes, he is definitely becoming more befuddled, not sure it is age so much though... Spazito Jul 2013 #87

On cross, I was getting the sense there was a lot he didn't know Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #369

I agree, he did seem to become uncomfortable at what he didn't know... Spazito Jul 2013 #372

wrong that hurts the cases 2nd degree charge ceonupe Jul 2013 #295

I disagree, his testimony didn't introduce reasonable doubt... Spazito Jul 2013 #300

Wasn't raining hard enough to wash blood from back of Zimmermans head that night uponit7771 Jul 2013 #81

Spot on! nt Ninga Jul 2013 #82

De Maio says Trayvon would not show bruises- so Zim could have beaten him up and we'd never know! bettyellen Jul 2013 #85

I don't understand CatWoman Jul 2013 #86

Once the blood stops flowing premium Jul 2013 #89

Good point uponit7771 Jul 2013 #92

yes CatWoman Jul 2013 #93

Can a dead person bruise? nt hack89 Jul 2013 #91

this Doc is going to regret repeating that pity saying. bettyellen Jul 2013 #96

bruises take time and blood pressure to develop- he very quickly lost blood pressure and bettyellen Jul 2013 #94

didn't think about that CatWoman Jul 2013 #99

I always wondered if they checked Trayvon's arms for bruises. Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #105

he explained the only way to possibly see bruising damage was to cut in to the body- and they didn't bettyellen Jul 2013 #331

all his blood was flowing out of his heart, none left for bruising Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #371

+1 uponit7771 Jul 2013 #121

And conversely, could have pummeled Zimmerman. JimDandy Jul 2013 #263

There's enough reasonable doubt about the state's case premium Jul 2013 #273

We'll see. Zimmerman's story has holes in it, JimDandy Jul 2013 #287

Zimmerman's not going to be on the stand customerserviceguy Jul 2013 #353

The prosecution's closing will freshen up JimDandy Jul 2013 #361

I'm guessing because it takes time for blood to pool in those areas Duer 157099 Jul 2013 #95

That's not spectulation, that's fact. premium Jul 2013 #102

the Doc said it himself. BDR- use better use it!! bettyellen Jul 2013 #113

Even an EMT-B knows this. nt. premium Jul 2013 #122

I dont think "could have" goes a long way in the court room HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #90

It's all Zimmerman has, forensically. bettyellen Jul 2013 #98

how so? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #101

his different stories are so unlikely- that "could be" is the best they can say about them. bettyellen Jul 2013 #111

But that doesn't prove anything, much less beyond reasonable doubt. dkf Jul 2013 #401

yes- it's going to rest on how much people can believe GZ's story- and they do not know his violent bettyellen Jul 2013 #402

But Z has the evidence of bruising and a broken nose. dkf Jul 2013 #403

TM could not bruise- as per Dr DiMaio- he died too quickly. Just as likely he had injuries as bad bettyellen Jul 2013 #405

DM said they could have cut deeper into tissue. dkf Jul 2013 #407

Exactly- for all we know Zimmeman beat Martin badly before murdering him! There's no way to prove he bettyellen Jul 2013 #411

And as technically "convincing" ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2013 #129

my father does everything left handed but he shoots right handed. feels more comfortable HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #133

you must be very proud CatWoman Jul 2013 #135

your concern is noted. Im just trying to say just because you are left of right handed HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #139

Weird, because all the lefties in my family JimDandy Jul 2013 #274

To the above poster's credit, my old man is the same way; Decoy of Fenris Jul 2013 #373

With billions of humans, I suppose there is the possiblity JimDandy Jul 2013 #381

How many shooters are in your family? N/T GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #385

3 in mine and a slew of them on the "in-laws" side. JimDandy Jul 2013 #387

Do they shoot right or left? GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #391

Hmm, I'll have to check on that. n/t JimDandy Jul 2013 #393

is this all you do? attack the poster? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #140

My sister and wife ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2013 #156

well true, it should have been talked about so it is known. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #159

I suspect ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2013 #219

It was noted on the first day that Z writes left, shoots right. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #321

Okay ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2013 #324

Not really, premium Jul 2013 #136

Yes ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2013 #206

Exception, premium Jul 2013 #218

Lots of lefties shoot right handed naaman fletcher Jul 2013 #302

Is that so? ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2013 #305

I agree with you nt. naaman fletcher Jul 2013 #307

The jury is not ignorant of guns. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #376

First day of trial, established that Z writes left, shoots right. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #322

I noticed he asked at least one other witness the same question Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #374

Try and find a left-handed gun. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #383

Okay ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2013 #425

City Manager up CatWoman Jul 2013 #104

I had the same thought when he took the stand nt bayareamike Jul 2013 #108

I don't understand what O'Mara is getting at in regards to the tape CatWoman Jul 2013 #110

What will be the point of his testimony? Why is he here? chelsea0011 Jul 2013 #109

To show that the method of releasing the tape to the family Stuckinthebush Jul 2013 #114

Exactly customerserviceguy Jul 2013 #354

LOL CatWoman Jul 2013 #115

The Defence ME is so full of sh*t. avebury Jul 2013 #107

I agree they are full of shit, but... Matt_in_STL Jul 2013 #117

I think that, if Trayvon did everything that avebury Jul 2013 #128

Why under his fingernails? GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #173

because according to GZ, TM grabbed his head and slammed it NatBurner Jul 2013 #185

But not necessarily under his fingernails. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #195

Good Point, very good point katmondoo Jul 2013 #134

WTF was that all about? Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #112

you too? CatWoman Jul 2013 #119

It makes sense Stuckinthebush Jul 2013 #123

It seems like the defense bayareamike Jul 2013 #127

I don't think so Stuckinthebush Jul 2013 #131

That conflicts with the former police chief's testimony Lurks Often Jul 2013 #155

Might make that testimony more powerful Stuckinthebush Jul 2013 #169

yeah CatWoman Jul 2013 #171

I'm guessing you mean the former police chief Lurks Often Jul 2013 #304

I expect O'Mara to find some way to make the point customerserviceguy Jul 2013 #355

Next witness wants to appear in a unique way. Did I hear that right? chelsea0011 Jul 2013 #116

It's George Zimmerman's best friend, Zeorge Gimmerman. Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #120

lofl uponit7771 Jul 2013 #125

On The Cycle, they are saying the defense now wants to drop testimony about Trayvon's toxicology CatWoman Jul 2013 #126

ahahahahaaa hahaaahahahahh Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #379

Maybe Shellie Zimmerman? Spazito Jul 2013 #142

Looked like some local politics going on with the city manager... uponit7771 Jul 2013 #124

wasn't it the City Manager who forced the issue of letting the parents hear the tape? CatWoman Jul 2013 #132

so we can say that TM did hit Z, right? how else would he get those injuries on his face and head? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #130

Hit himself with his own gun, gun had Z's blood on it not TM's hands. Also wounds marks the next uponit7771 Jul 2013 #137

says you, ok. now I have your opinion. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #143

is that all you do CatWoman Jul 2013 #147

learned from you, didn't I? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #150

ironic, isn't it CatWoman Jul 2013 #168

maybe, I didn't really say anything bad about the poster like you did.. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #174

yeah CatWoman Jul 2013 #311

hmm... HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #338

knock it off you guys Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #380

thank you CatWoman Jul 2013 #144

He fell, he rolled on the ground, he bumped into one of bushes Trayvon jumped out from..... Ninga Jul 2013 #141

so many things could have happened, but TM hitting him couldnt. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #145

even if Trayvon did hit him CatWoman Jul 2013 #149

no, but it would give Z justification for what he did, no? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #153

no CatWoman Jul 2013 #157

If TM hit Z, would that not give Z the right to protect himself? or no? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #160

even if Z felt his life was in danger? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #167

No. Being hit doesn't justify killing a kid yardwork Jul 2013 #164

even if Z felt his life is in danger? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #166

We only have Z's word for that and he's a proven liar yardwork Jul 2013 #172

thats not what I asked. I asked if Z felt his life was in danger, is what he did justified? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #176

We only have Z's word that he thought his life was in danger. yardwork Jul 2013 #297

"There has to be a rational reason for the fear." Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #384

How do we know Z thought his life was in danger? He didn't take the stand. Avalux Jul 2013 #308

That Has To Meet A Standard Of Reasonable Belief, Sir The Magistrate Jul 2013 #175

I would expect the defense to show that, right? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #178

What Does Not Exist, Sir, Cannot Be Shown.... The Magistrate Jul 2013 #191

Didnt the ME state that the injuries did in fact match up with the story? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #201

Insignificant Injuries, Sir The Magistrate Jul 2013 #221

I think you're wrong. But we'll see how the jury decides. -nt Bonx Jul 2013 #266

we shall. n/t HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #271

how about.. saying "whoa brother, it's ok, I'm with the neighborhood watch" Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #382

I don't get it. You asked "how else" then insult anyone who answers. uppityperson Jul 2013 #268

because I can see they already feel Z is guilty and TM didn't do anything wrong. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #270

Ah, you only want echoes of your own belief. Thanks for clarifying. IF YOU DISAGREE DON'T ANSWER uppityperson Jul 2013 #278

Legal question: Zimmerman admits to shooting Trayvon. Jim__ Jul 2013 #138

The defense does have to present affirmative evidence supporting self-defense. Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #146

Thanks. I wasn't sure. Jim__ Jul 2013 #151

+1 nt bayareamike Jul 2013 #152

He's been charged with second degree murder bayareamike Jul 2013 #148

which I have not seen yet... HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #158

To be honest, nor have I. There is plenty of bayareamike Jul 2013 #162

I agree.. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #163

I don't think he shot him to show what good friends they were! hedgehog Jul 2013 #306

It's my understanding that there are many interpretations of what Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #386

The prosecution is tasked with proving reasonable doubt that Zimmerman did not act in self defense. Avalux Jul 2013 #154

They need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that he did not act in self defense nt bayareamike Jul 2013 #165

Yes - thank you. I was in a hurry! n/t Avalux Jul 2013 #170

Once the defense presents a prima facie case LittleBlue Jul 2013 #183

Can someone pleasea fill me in avebury Jul 2013 #161

The intent of the defense calling him, imo, was a pathetic attempt to taint Trayvon's mother's... Spazito Jul 2013 #177

I just watched that testimony on YouTube. Holy cats! Ruby the Liberal Jul 2013 #320

I thought BDLR's "what would you expect to be there?" bayareamike Jul 2013 #179

WTF? On redirect, State let's West say TWICE that Good said he saw TM "striking" GZ!! Duer 157099 Jul 2013 #180

TM's arms were going in a downward movement, but he wasn't hitting Z, what exactly was he doing? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #182

...could be, if there was blood on TM's hands it would be believable uponit7771 Jul 2013 #184

oh right, TM was just pulling weeds then, right? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #190

Walking TF home from a convenience store run Ruby the Liberal Jul 2013 #323

how does this relate to TM and his arms moving in a downward motion? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #340

imagine this.. you are in a scuffle with somebody heavier and older Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #389

He might be heavier and older, but if I am taller and have longer arms... HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #416

mmm uh huh ok Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #418

longer arms means easier to get from farther away. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #419

may I ask you for an honest favor? Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #420

I will do whatever I please. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #421

ok but probably you aren't going to convert anyone's thinking. Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #422

I do have a feeling heart, and It sucks that this happened. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #423

Do you believe Zimmerman's story in its entirety? Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #424

No. He could have been struggling to madashelltoo Jul 2013 #187

he COULD have been, but we do know TM's arms were going downward and we know what HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #192

...or it could be z's arms going downward and sense TM stopped blleeding no bruises showed uponit7771 Jul 2013 #196

so now Z was on top???? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #204

Not from 25 to 30 blows. madashelltoo Jul 2013 #212

That isn't the way you keep a gun muzzle away from you. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #329

you don't know he hadn't pulled the gun! Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #390

Restraining somone doesn't involve rapid up & down arm movements. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #392

An emphatic "NO" if not "absofuckinglutely NO." Duer 157099 Jul 2013 #194

good point uponit7771 Jul 2013 #200

excellent points, to be honest CatWoman Jul 2013 #207

would you not try to hit the person to get the gun away from them? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #209

Hell to the fucking no Duer 157099 Jul 2013 #214

right, you are you and TM is TM. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #217

And since one of us is DEAD, I'm left with only my own supposition n/t Duer 157099 Jul 2013 #229

and apparently didn't do what you needed to get the gun away. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #238

True dat Duer 157099 Jul 2013 #239

But not for lack of trying without hitting? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #241

OK. Since you want to pursue this. Duer 157099 Jul 2013 #242

as the ME stated, you could strike someone with no bruising on your hand. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #245

So you are saying: there is no evidence, but there doesn't have to be Duer 157099 Jul 2013 #255

Can you hit a bloody face without getting blood on your hands? uppityperson Jul 2013 #276

so you knew TM personally? frylock Jul 2013 #251

never said that I did... don't know where you are getting that from?? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #252

you appear to speak with some authority on the matter.. frylock Jul 2013 #259

my whole point is that everyone is different. TM is TM, Duer 157099 is Duer 157099 HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #261

yep, and in this instance i agree with Duer 157099.. frylock Jul 2013 #282

thats fine, but what you would do MIGHT be different than what TM would do, no? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #293

or it MIGHT not, no? frylock Jul 2013 #294

would you not try to hit the person to get the gun away from them? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #210

If I am on top and see a gun I am trying to hit it out of their hand or even hit them to stop them HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #208

JFC, I'll say it again: NO Duer 157099 Jul 2013 #223

JFC! I WOULD DO ANYTHING I CAN TO GET THE GUN OUT OF HIS HANDS! HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #231

So would I, but getting the muzzle to point in another direction would be my priority Duer 157099 Jul 2013 #237

If I had the gun hand pushed aside, I am pissed off enough to punch the fuck out of whoever did that HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #240

two different people who do different things.. frylock Jul 2013 #254

that exactly my point... not everyone is the same, so when someone says.. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #257

In that scenario: Duer 157099 Jul 2013 #260

yes. I am fearful for my life. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #267

IMHO, It all boils down to CatWoman Jul 2013 #284

Absolutely, Z should have stayed in the car. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #334

And well you should be Duer 157099 Jul 2013 #285

Let's try this. Is it ok for someone to do something different than you would do? 2nd question uppityperson Jul 2013 #281

Excellent point. That supports my belief that avebury Jul 2013 #243

I think Zimmerman had the gun already drawn as well CatWoman Jul 2013 #262

That is the only scenario that would make sense avebury Jul 2013 #269

I do as well, I think he had his gun drawn, came up behind Trayvon with the... Spazito Jul 2013 #279

he was probably trying to hold Zimmerman's arms so he couldn't point and shoot the gun. Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #388

and possibly punch. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #417

I've got to stop following the live blog at wftv.com! displacedtexan Jul 2013 #181

Nobody's opinion matters except 6. Not even mine or yours. Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #186

who is this woman CatWoman Jul 2013 #189

Apparently she lives nearby Shrek Jul 2013 #193

ah CatWoman Jul 2013 #197

Yes, a "broken nose" witness n/t Shrek Jul 2013 #199

What is going on with this woman in the hospital or in bed? senseandsensibility Jul 2013 #203

Neighbor, apparently sick at home Shrek Jul 2013 #211

I wonder if she'll say it was Zimmerman's scream Shrek Jul 2013 #216

She just did say she believed it was Zimmerman's voice on the tape. nt. premium Jul 2013 #234

So Zimmerman had a bloody nose almost immediately after the shooting. Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #198

exactly CatWoman Jul 2013 #205

Well it goes to the self defense claim Stuckinthebush Jul 2013 #220

There have already been pictures of the nose admitted into evidence. Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #224

Nothing new Stuckinthebush Jul 2013 #228

Oops. More evidence about the scream Stuckinthebush Jul 2013 #233

"after I didn't see George" kpete Jul 2013 #202

oh get with the program CatWoman Jul 2013 #213

If she's black and a friend Shrek Jul 2013 #222

Yes but she doesn't claim friend status Stuckinthebush Jul 2013 #225

I don't know about friend. She was asked if he was her friend and had trouble with chelsea0011 Jul 2013 #226

Interesting. This neighbor witness has seen Martin in the neighborhood before. chelsea0011 Jul 2013 #215

caught that too kpete Jul 2013 #230

What are you saying?! madashelltoo Jul 2013 #264

Anyone see that hottie in the front row? Pennycat Jul 2013 #227

Deep conversation you are bringing to the table today, Adric. nt Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #232

Yes I noticed that. I wonder if that affected the jurors' opinion of Di Maio. Jim__ Jul 2013 #236

Elliot Spitzer style Pennycat Jul 2013 #247

Weakest voice substantiation yet.... Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #235

...I think they needed some racial negation with her vs a credible witness... uponit7771 Jul 2013 #244

Never heard Martin's voice Shrek Jul 2013 #250

What's the relevance of this? Shrek Jul 2013 #246

how confident must the defense be if they are resting tomorrow? HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #248

Pretty damn Stuckinthebush Jul 2013 #283

manslaughter is on the table as well CatWoman Jul 2013 #298

Good (nt) Stuckinthebush Jul 2013 #319

How was Trayvon, were one to believe Zimmerman's account (I don't) able to... Spazito Jul 2013 #249

I would say no, you don't HAVE to dig your nails into someones scalp in order to grasp it firmly. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #253

A wet, slippery, bloody, shaven scalp? Spazito Jul 2013 #256

Its really hard to say yes or no without being there. HeroInAHalfShell Jul 2013 #258

The conditions, as I stated above, are known.... Spazito Jul 2013 #265

You would not have to grab Z' head to hit it on the concrete. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #290

Would that not leave DNA on Trayvon Martin as well, using the heel of his hand, Spazito Jul 2013 #292

At the beginning of the trial, photographs of Zimmerman's head were korak Jul 2013 #314

Here is a photo of Zimmerman from the front... Spazito Jul 2013 #317

I am not a medical examiner. GreenStormCloud Jul 2013 #315

20 to 30 times against concrete would produce injuries far worse than Zim's KurtNYC Jul 2013 #286

Yep, totally agree n/t Spazito Jul 2013 #289

I don't think he ever said 20 to 30 times. I can't find a source for that. Honeycombe8 Jul 2013 #377

Did Dr. Bao refer to time of death as related to brain function.. nenagh Jul 2013 #272

no you aren't justanaverageguy Jul 2013 #277

thanks nenagh Jul 2013 #280

So I'm assuming they are now going to do more arguing over Zimmerman's cartoon? nt Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #275

Mantai's a lawyer's lawyer. Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #288

Mantai is going a great job. avebury Jul 2013 #310

No. Foundation. Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #291

Are they showing the actual animation? JimDandy Jul 2013 #299

Yeah. Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #301

Was the jury present for this cartoon? Ruby the Liberal Jul 2013 #326

Did they get teleported? avebury Jul 2013 #303

I know this is serious, but I can't help chuckling over the judge Shrek Jul 2013 #312

Whoa, the defense is in big trouble re Good consulting with the defense after... Spazito Jul 2013 #313

If it is as big a deal as it sounds, the prosecution could move to strike his testimony. Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #316

Yeah, I am wondering how the Judge is going to handle this one... Spazito Jul 2013 #318

What? Ruby the Liberal Jul 2013 #327

During the hearing going on now re admissibility of the animation... Spazito Jul 2013 #328

Wow! Ruby the Liberal Jul 2013 #330

They are currently arguing, State and defense, on why or why not the animation... Spazito Jul 2013 #332

WTF? How to you cross-examine a cartoon?? Ruby the Liberal Jul 2013 #336

The whole hearing has been WTF? to me, lol... Spazito Jul 2013 #341

Before I left in June for vacay Ruby the Liberal Jul 2013 #347

Yep, if anyone is looking for bruises they will find them on my chin from... Spazito Jul 2013 #359

They seem to have just glossed over this issue stranger81 Jul 2013 #343

No, it is such a serious breach, it will be dealt with separate and apart from this hearing... Spazito Jul 2013 #345

Thank god. stranger81 Jul 2013 #397

LOL, last night was something else... Spazito Jul 2013 #400

The Youtube stream I was following didn't cover this Ruby the Liberal Jul 2013 #348

You're welcome! Spazito Jul 2013 #349

So how did right handed TM hit GZ on the left side of his face? Nevernose Jul 2013 #325

Nevernose = Woundednose? Ruby the Liberal Jul 2013 #333

I hadn't really thought of it that way Nevernose Jul 2013 #337

I was joking, but you bring up a good point Ruby the Liberal Jul 2013 #339

Zimmerman's sat in that courtroom and hasn't said a word. Avalux Jul 2013 #342

LOL CatWoman Jul 2013 #344

Interesting that jury selection voir dire never addressed Ruby the Liberal Jul 2013 #350

Maybe they do and it hasn't concerned them in the slightest. Avalux Jul 2013 #352

Dollars to donutz they will insist on that Ruby the Liberal Jul 2013 #356

He knows he's got holes in his story customerserviceguy Jul 2013 #360

The only tithe defense really has going for it is credibility Nevernose Jul 2013 #364

He won't take the stand because there's no need Azathoth Jul 2013 #362

How could the Judge allow the stuff on Trayvon's avebury Jul 2013 #357

It sounds like she's not going to allow stuff on Trayvon's Lisa D Jul 2013 #363

What bothers me the most in this trial is this: Marrah_G Jul 2013 #365

That's the double edged sword of the 5th Amendment. Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2013 #375

The writers of the constitution JimDandy Jul 2013 #398

How many of the recordings would have been dismissed as hearsay if hedgehog Jul 2013 #427

It's going to hurt him- but testifying would have hurt him much worse.... bettyellen Jul 2013 #406

I can't recall who introduced the recordings - but I agree that once the defense hedgehog Jul 2013 #426

WTH is wrong with some of you people? Pennycat Jul 2013 #395

They're not scum for doing their jobs. stranger81 Jul 2013 #396

Welcome to DU. Only 2 days here JimDandy Jul 2013 #399

Umm..no. What the hell is wrong with you? darkangel218 Jul 2013 #404

Usually one waits a little while before lashing out at posters on a new board Marrah_G Jul 2013 #408