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bobclark86

(1,415 posts)
77. Well, that's one hell of a strawman...
Sun Jul 14, 2013, 11:58 AM
Jul 2013

Instead of going after people who think he was "not guilty," because the prosecution screwed up proving if Zimmerman started the physical fight or was planning on shooting the kid, you throw up "Zimmerman's choices led to Trayvons death," and if anyone disagrees with you, they're racist.

Well, nobody (as in NOBODY) is disagreeing with you. Everyone knows Zimmerman shot Martin (notice you are using Zimmerman instead of George and Trayvon instead of Martin... implying a more familiar air to one than the other). That's something even the defense admitted. We all know had Zimmerman not gotten out of his car that night, none of this would have happened.

Here's what we don't know:
Was Zimmerman pissed off about break-in around his neighborhood, or was he hunting black people?
Did Zimmerman get out of the car thinking he was going to shoot someone?
Did Zimmerman shove Martin before Martin knocked him down, or did Martin hit Zimmerman first when the two started mouthing off (as the guy was pretty out of shape (his gym owner even said he sucked), I think the fight involved two hits -- Martin hitting Zimmerman and Zimmerman hitting the ground like a sack of fresh fertilizer)?

THAT is the doubt part. You can't prove the first two, so there goes Murder-2. You can't prove the third, so there goes manslaughter (If Zimmerman hit first, he started the actual physical fight. If Martin hit first because some guy was standing there yelling at him, and Zimmerman then got his ass kicked, there's self defense). The prosecution didn't prove one way or the other (as only two people knew, and one is dead), so unlike wearing latex gloves under tight-fitting leather gloves meaning I must acquit, the prosecution can't prove who started the physical fight (as both had a legal right to be where they were), the jury chose to acquit.

Now, should Zimmerman have followed Martin? That's the "FUCK NO!!!!!" winning the No-Shit-Sherlock of the Day Award. That doesn't mean it's murder under the law. Had Zimmerman walked up, pulled his gun while 20 feet away and shot Martin, THAT would have been flat-out murder. But the real world is more complex than that (as usual).

Besides, Zimmerman will never have a normal life again (never holding a career, never finding a peaceful home, probably not keeping his marriage, etc.). Those that believe in karma will understand when the guy's life is ruined. Should it be? Well, it doesn't take a real genius to figure out you should not follow someone around at night with a loaded gun when the cops tell you not to do so.

I know, now I'm to be labeled a gun-humping neo-Nazi racists like others here for pointing all this out and not jumping on the "Zimmerman is an evil racist child hunter!" bandwagon. Well, if someone said I'm a Nazi on the internet, it MUST be true... apparently... or something...

He's not innocent Shrek Jul 2013 #1
Uh, how about "the jury got it right and he might be guilty?" pipoman Jul 2013 #2
That is why I put other. hrmjustin Jul 2013 #3
The fact of our justice system pipoman Jul 2013 #23
Other: he is probably guilty, but the jury got it right Nye Bevan Jul 2013 #4
What you said. nt. premium Jul 2013 #6
What this guy said... nebenaube Jul 2013 #7
That's what I think, too Aerows Jul 2013 #17
And therein lies the differences of ohheckyeah Jul 2013 #26
There is no reason they couldn't have found him guilty of manslaughter. liberal_at_heart Jul 2013 #29
If they found self defense they cannot convict of manslaughter cthulu2016 Jul 2013 #32
Just because you pick a fight with someone doesn't necessarily mean you intend to kill them. liberal_at_heart Jul 2013 #37
Picking a fight armed only with fists Art_from_Ark Jul 2013 #55
There is "imperfect self defense." morningfog Jul 2013 #79
self defense applies to manslaughter as well as to second degree onenote Jul 2013 #63
Sadly, yes magellan Jul 2013 #31
I disagree that Zimmerman was the one defending himself, but that does not mean that Zimmerman liberal_at_heart Jul 2013 #43
And that's where it got tough for the jury, I guess magellan Jul 2013 #48
Why is the bar so high that every second has to be absolutely accurately reconstructed? NoOneMan Jul 2013 #61
the jury got it right as far as the system is concerned burnodo Jul 2013 #74
There WAS enough evidence to find him guilty of manslaughter. n/t Tx4obama Jul 2013 #5
You and I agree on something. Rex Jul 2013 #10
I think the jury didn't understand 'manslaughter'. They should have asked Judge more questions. Tx4obama Jul 2013 #12
I think we also can't overlook Aerows Jul 2013 #22
+1 HiPointDem Jul 2013 #27
'Not innocent but not guilty' is not justice. Rex Jul 2013 #8
manslaughter was the appropriate verdict BainsBane Jul 2013 #9
How was he picked/selected? bobduca Jul 2013 #11
I think he's the DA of Seminole County BainsBane Jul 2013 #13
State Prosecutors represent the state - families/victims do not get to pick them. n/t Tx4obama Jul 2013 #21
Right, I was confusing civil cases where the victim/victim's family can pick bobduca Jul 2013 #40
Remember, the police initially covered up for Zimmie meow2u3 Jul 2013 #15
and the police deliberately threw the case in court BainsBane Jul 2013 #18
I finally agree with you on something. CokeMachine Jul 2013 #34
That's nice. BainsBane Jul 2013 #38
Thanks for showing an interest in me!! CokeMachine Jul 2013 #49
Not at all BainsBane Jul 2013 #50
Have a great weekend!! CokeMachine Jul 2013 #53
So why did you vote other? BainsBane Jul 2013 #47
Just to get your attention!! CokeMachine Jul 2013 #52
I'm heart broken BainsBane Jul 2013 #59
You'll get over me. CokeMachine Jul 2013 #62
though as pointed out, one factor hampering the prosecution treestar Jul 2013 #54
And a police force who handled the evidence appropriately. Avalux Jul 2013 #64
You are right. nt hack89 Jul 2013 #72
Other: The poll options are not very useful vis-a-vis American law cthulu2016 Jul 2013 #14
This was bullshit. Agschmid Jul 2013 #16
I agree 100% hrmjustin Jul 2013 #20
Regardless of the jury, I believe he is morally and ethically petronius Jul 2013 #19
There is a very distinct legal difference between pipoman Jul 2013 #24
do you think he is innocent? hrmjustin Jul 2013 #25
don't know beyond a reasonable doubt..he's "not guilty" (in the legal sense) pipoman Jul 2013 #42
Ok an honest answer I believe. hrmjustin Jul 2013 #44
These facts, with this evidence, gets this result. DirkGently Jul 2013 #28
"Other" Lizzie Poppet Jul 2013 #30
Yes BlueJazz Jul 2013 #33
An armed George Zimmerman follows, engages and shoots and kills an unarmed Trayvon Martin enigmatic Jul 2013 #35
other. jury got it right. He is not guilty rollin74 Jul 2013 #36
There's a reason the form says "not guilty" rather than "innocent" Azathoth Jul 2013 #39
The jury got it right LittleBlue Jul 2013 #41
No way to know 100%. n/t Skip Intro Jul 2013 #45
We "know" ForgoTheConsequence Jul 2013 #46
Well, that's one hell of a strawman... bobclark86 Jul 2013 #77
The jury is always "right" but treestar Jul 2013 #51
I feel absolutely sick to my stomach. I cannot believe this. Whisp Jul 2013 #56
I feel really empty after this verdict! hrmjustin Jul 2013 #57
An armed man stalked and killed an unarmed teenager because of his race. mick063 Jul 2013 #58
+1,000,000 hrmjustin Jul 2013 #60
You would be a very poor jurist, then Orrex Jul 2013 #73
If I believed in our justice system, you would be correct. mick063 Jul 2013 #81
If you're willing to risk contempt of court, I say go for it Orrex Jul 2013 #82
Jury got it right: Z's guilty, but reasonable doubt was there. Decoy of Fenris Jul 2013 #65
Some of these people are just new arrivals, others, not so much. Warren Stupidity Jul 2013 #66
Makes my ignore list easier... Blue_Tires Jul 2013 #68
The prosecution failed to make a case Lurks Often Jul 2013 #67
All things being equal DearAbby Jul 2013 #69
Righteous, Abby. A very rare sight, your post. Decoy of Fenris Jul 2013 #71
Your last pipi_k Jul 2013 #76
Guilty but inadequate evidence due to the lack of eye witnesses. nt hack89 Jul 2013 #70
Other... pipi_k Jul 2013 #75
The state presented a good deal of evidence showing Zimmerman was a liar... Demo_Chris Jul 2013 #78
Voluntary manslaughter in that Zimmerman was looking to start a The Second Stone Jul 2013 #80
Kick hrmjustin Jul 2013 #83
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