I'm drunk, any other alcoholics around?

[progree]

114. Some suggestions for the non-religious (a few for the religious too)

Last edited Sat Mar 8, 2014, 01:04 AM - Edit history (2)

Hi Madville,

Since in your OP you ask for some advice on quitting alcohol, and in your #31 you say "hopefully find a non religious kind of AA meeting", I would like to offer you some resources that worked for me, an atheist. And some others that I've found trolling the interwebs over the years that seem to have helped some.

I'll start with the non-A.A. resources first. Then I'll discuss ways that A.A. may be useful to the non-religious or non-believer in deities.

In the below I use the term "agnostic" in a broader sense of the word to include atheists, freethinkers, non-believers in a deity god and similar.

[font size=5, color=blue] A) Non-12-step, non-A.A. groups - e.g. SOS, SMART Recovery, ... [/font]

# SOS - Secular Organizations For Sobriety / Save Ourselves
http://www.sosSobriety.org
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/sossaveourselves/

# SMART Recovery (Self Management and Recovery Training) - a cognitive approach based on Albert Ellis's Rational Emotive Therapy -
http://www.smartrecovery.org
http://smartrecovery.org/SMARTBoard/

# LifeRing
http://www.unhooked.com/index.htm
http://forums.delphiforums.com/lifering/start

# Women For Sobriety (I don't think they have any face-2-face meetings, its all online)
http://www.womenforsobriety.org

# HAMS: Harm Reduction for Alcohol and Other Substances
http://www.hamshrn.org/index.html

# Harm reduction Yahoo Group that supports both abstinence and moderation http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/hamshrn/ (wow, about 700 posts a month = 23/day)

# Rational Recovery (no support groups)
http://www.rational.org

# Moderation Management (for people who wish to reduce their drinking, as well as for those who decide to abstain) - http://www.moderation.org

# Book: "Responsible Drinking - A Moderation Management Approach For Problem Drinkers", Rotgers, Kern, Hoeltzel, 2002. Excellent for those seeking to moderate #AND# those seeking to abstain.

# Agnostic A.A. - see A.A. section

[font size=4, color=blue]A.1) Some other listings (may duplicate above) [/font]

# Alcoholism.about.com's list of Non-Step Support Groups
http://alcoholism.about.com/od/non/Non_Step_Support_Groups.htm

# Addiction and Recovery - non-12-step resources: At the very bottom http://www.soberrecovery.com/links/alternativetreatmentcenters.html

# The Orange Papers - everything that is wrong about A.A. and the 12 step movement, and then some: http://www.orange-papers.org

# The Green Papers - a counter to the Orange Papers on a couple of issues of the effectiveness of A.A. : http://www.green-papers.org


[font size=4, color=blue]A.2) Some non-step online forums[/font]

# Dailystrength.org Alcohol Recovery Without 12 Steps (their ground rule is not bash 12-step or any other kind of support group or recovery method)
http://www.dailystrength.org/groups/alcoholrecoverywithout12steps
-- a mixture of people in non-A.A./N.A. programs like SMART Recovery, SOS, etc.; many following their own paths; secular / agnostic AA/NA; and yes, a few orthodox A.A./N.A. types.

# reddit.com/r/stopdrinking: http://www.reddit.com/r/stopdrinking - below was a comment someone made in an agnostic A.A. forum: "The most inclusive place I have found is the "StopDrinking" sub-reddit. Seriously, all they care about is supporting people. AA, SMART, therapy, going it alone, atheists, agnostics, die hard theists, everyone (more or less) gets along."

[font size=5, color=blue]B) A.A. (Alcoholics Anonymous) Resources [/font]

[font size=4, color=blue]B.1) Regular A.A. Meetings (see below for Agnostic A.A.) [/font]

How to find A.A. Meetings ( http://www.aa.org/lang/en/subpage.cfm?page=28 )

Although A.A.'s literature and Traditions are clear about there being no "musts" in A.A., other than a desire to stop drinking, many A.A. groups pressure you to "work the 12 steps" as written, and discuss them, get a sponsor and do everything he/she says, and go to numerous meetings a week (the infamous 90 meetings in one's first 90 days).

(Many consider the 12 steps religious, as I do, and as do the U.S. courts, and you might find that problematical. Or you might be OK with them, as many agnostics are, by mentally substituting secular wording for the God stuff).

Fortunately, there are many A.A. groups that are less dogmatic and can be a great resource for recovery for even the very independent-minded. Here are some suggestions:

Try groups labeled Topic, Discussion, Speaker, and Big Book in the A.A. group listings. Many people find these kinds of groups to be a relief from the constant hammeriing away on the 12 Steps (which many find an unveiled attempt at proselytization about a generic deity).

Try smaller meetings (less than 20 people), as they tend to be less dogmatic and more informal, usually, in my experience. (One exception is Speaker meetings which are almost always large, but where you can just sit in the back and listen and not interact or talk if you don't want to)

Be patient, keep trying different groups, it’s a matter of trial and error -- consider it an adventure. There are all kinds of groups out there.

As for myself, I got a lot out of some 12-step groups in the early days and years, such as Emotions Anonymous, and A.A., even though I've been a life-long atheist (since about age 12 or so anyway).

Since most cities of any size have several A.A. meetings every day of the week to choose from, they are certainly a resource worth considering if one can put up with the religious overtones. The religiosity (or deity spirituality) is annoying to me, but nobody is required to be religious or believe in a god to be a part of meetings or to "work the program" (see Tradition 3 "The Only Requirement" if you ever get to that point -- http://www.democraticunderground.com/1144962 )

I found that meetings provided mutual support and shared experience, a place to spend time in sobriety and opportunities for additional sober activities outside of meetings, and accountability.


[font size=3 face="times new roman" color=blue]B.1.a) How some agnostics deal with regular A.A. meetings[/font]

[font size=2]# The three Jane L articles - how one atheist interprets the program[/font]

. # "Is there room enough in AA?"
. . . . http://web.archive.org/web/20020225120044/http://www.primenet.com/~jmassie/roomenuf.htm
. # "Step Three: A program Of Action"
. . . . http://web.archive.org/web/20020225120044/http://www.primenet.com/~jmassie/step3.htm
. # "Listening For The Reality"
. . . . http://web.archive.org/web/20020225123559/http://www.primenet.com/~jmassie/reality.htm

[font size=2]# Book: "Living Sober - Some methods A.A. members have used for not drinking",[/font]
by A.A. World Services. It is described by A.A. as "Practical suggestions heard at meetings" in the "Other Books" section on the opening fly leaf of A.A.'s primary book, "Alcoholics Anonymous". Amazingly for an A.A. book, there is very little religiosity or deity-spirituality or "higher power" talk in this 87 page book. A few of the 31 chapters include "Staying away from the first drink", "Using the 24-hour plan", "Live and Let Live", "Changing old routines", "Eating or drinking something — usually, sweet", "Making use of "telephone therapy", "Availing yourself of a sponsor", "Fending off loneliness", "Remembering your last drunk", "Avoiding dangerous drugs and medications", " Seeking professional help", "Finding your own way", and many others.

A full chapter list and summary of what one person considers the key points of each chapter is at http://home.earthlink.net/~briggsmorebeach/Library/LivingSober.htm

Amazingly, for a book with so little "higher power" and "God" talk, but rather practical suggestions, this is A.A. General Service Conference-approved literature.

[font size=2]# Book: "Alcoholics Anonymous" aka (The Big Book). [/font]

While a lot of it is religious (or deity-spiritual), the first 3 chapters and the stories at the end (388 pages worth of those stories) are good reading for anyone (I particularly like Chapter 3). Well in pp. 9-14 in Chapter 1, Bill W. gets into his own religious beliefs (its religious because its about a deity Creator god), but I find that more interesting than annoying. And p. 25-28 in chapter 2 is goddie.

[font size=4, color=blue]B.2) Agnostic A.A. [/font]

# http://www.agnosticAAnyc.org - this lists agnostic / atheist / freethinker meetings throughout the world (most in the U.S. but 18 are outside the U.S.: 8 in Canada, 6 in England, 3 in France, and 1 in Japan) http://www.agnosticaanyc.org/worldwide.html

# A collection of various secular 12 steps
# http://aaagnostica.org/alternative-12-steps/
# http://aaagnostica.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/A-Collection-of-Alternative-Steps-2012-07-09.pdf

# SoberRecovery.com's secular 12 step recovery
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/secular-12-step-recovery <-seems majority Stockholm Syndrome agnostics

# AAagnostica.org - lots of fantastic articles on and about agnostics in A.A. and agnostic A.A. groups and agnostic A.A. history, but the comments section is way overly tightly controlled

# aa-atheists.com - this is more web pages than forums

# AA Freethinker Meeting on Tinychat (listed at http://agnosticaanyc.org/worldwide.html#On-Line )
For time, logon, and account details go http://agnosticaanyc.org/Online.html

# Agnostics & Atheists in A.A. (Facebook page / forum) https://www.facebook.com/pages/Agnostics-and-Atheists-in-AA/168374259840358

# Agnostic AA reading material, a few suggestions from agnosticAAnyc.org: http://www.agnosticaanyc.org/MemberZone/Reading.html

# "An Atheist's Unofficial Guide to AA - For Newcomers"
http://www.amazon.com/An-Atheists-Unofficial-Guide-Newcomers/dp/1466209305/ref=pd_sim_b_1
(be sure to scroll down to the "Customers Who Bought This Item Also Bought" section for some other similar books)

[font size=4, color=blue]B.3) If you like Traditional A.A., some additional resources[/font]

# DailyStrength.org's alcoholism support group (not entirely or exclusively traditional A.A., but they are in the majority)
http://www.dailystrength.org/c/Alcoholism/support-group