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BainsBane

(57,377 posts)

59. You didn't read those articles. You didn't have time

Thu Aug 8, 2013, 10:44 AM

Aug 2013

and then you point me to a blog.

Even if there were no racial disparity, which is demonstrably false, the law is still a justification of murder. True self defense was already legal. The difference is SYG gives someone a right to kill when a safe retreat exists. It legalizes murder, not self defense.

No one is going to convince me that murder is somehow okay. Just because Alec, the NRA, and the Koch brothers help people get away with murder by pushing SYG laws doesn't change what it is. Killing is evil, and anyone who takes a life when he doesn't need to in order to save his own is an evil piece of shit who deserves to rot in hell. Those who enable murders by advancing SYG laws aren't much better.

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Thanks, Stand Your Ground! No homicide charges for teen who shot, killed man [View all] Robb Aug 2013 OP

Courtesy of Jeb Bush and the Koch Brothers. Dawson Leery Aug 2013 #1

Yes and No. onenote Aug 2013 #89

It's the Wild Wild... ummm East? Cronus Protagonist Aug 2013 #2

This is what SYG is supposed to do telclaven Aug 2013 #3

tell that to Trayvon Skittles Aug 2013 #5

Jesus, Skittles, two different cases and you know it. Bake Aug 2013 #58

I was referring to the PROPAGANDA IN THE POST TO WHICH I REPLIED Skittles Aug 2013 #94

The Trayvon case was a travesty. We all know that. Bake Aug 2013 #96

Or pick anyone else completely unrelated to the case at hand. Lizzie Poppet Aug 2013 #83

waved a stick at the teens. one ran away. the other could have, but didn't. waving a stick HiPointDem Aug 2013 #13

"Waved a stick" - nice revisionism telclaven Aug 2013 #15

Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2013 #18

swinging and waving are the same action. the other teen was able to run away from the big HiPointDem Aug 2013 #103

Hank Aaron used to "wave a stick" at a fastball, too. Bake Aug 2013 #128

oh really? TorchTheWitch Aug 2013 #172

HiPointDem is no longer with us. pintobean Aug 2013 #173

What caused that? Common Sense Party Aug 2013 #174

I assume this thread pintobean Aug 2013 #175

what a bunch of crap samsingh Aug 2013 #29

SYG is not a license to kill. It still has to be justifiable use of force. Bake Aug 2013 #130

in principle i see a value of 'reasonable force' - that's not what i'm seeing samsingh Aug 2013 #149

As do I. Bake Aug 2013 #150

How many specific cases can you cite hack89 Aug 2013 #160

But if there are only two people in a given encounter thucythucy Aug 2013 #157

Forensics and personal history come into play. GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #162

Straw man. Bake Aug 2013 #182

No, it is a license to kill. Period! nt kelliekat44 Aug 2013 #159

No, you are wrong and obviously don't know the law. Bake Aug 2013 #183

... Javaman Aug 2013 #55

SYG lowers the threshold for using deadly violence. It is a fucking bad law. bluestate10 Aug 2013 #101

Why should he have to? telclaven Aug 2013 #148

This message was self-deleted by its author thucythucy Aug 2013 #155

Sounds legit. ileus Aug 2013 #4

He's still being charged for that. Dr. Strange Aug 2013 #8

Being engaged in unlawful activity is supposed to negate a SYG defense. Robb Aug 2013 #56

So he came at him swinging a weapon Lee-Lee Aug 2013 #6

As a minority small business owner...... rdharma Aug 2013 #7

Despite evidence I've shown to the contrary. Bazinga Aug 2013 #17

Evidence? Buwhahahhahahhahha! rdharma Aug 2013 #95

Not a rebuttal. n/t Bazinga Aug 2013 #102

No need to rebut BS! n/t rdharma Aug 2013 #104

It's hardly bs, Bazinga Aug 2013 #106

syg = blacks can kills blacks & whites can kill blacks. but blacks killing whites? less likely. HiPointDem Aug 2013 #11

I wouldn't quite say it that way. Bazinga Aug 2013 #19

Let me give you a scenario, and see what you think. thucythucy Aug 2013 #156

What's to prevent the exact same scenario from occurring under duty to retreat? Bazinga Aug 2013 #158

"What difference between your scenario..." thucythucy Aug 2013 #161

You were already talking about premeditated murder. Bazinga Aug 2013 #171

Really? rl6214 Aug 2013 #163

SYG means you don't have to walk away BainsBane Aug 2013 #9

I don't think the kid pintobean Aug 2013 #10

His friends did BainsBane Aug 2013 #12

Here's the link where Think Progress got the story. pintobean Aug 2013 #14

Is it possible... Bazinga Aug 2013 #20

SYG legalizes murder and therefore emboldens people to kill BainsBane Aug 2013 #22

Do you honestly believe that? Bazinga Aug 2013 #24

the law already allowed for self defense before SYG BainsBane Aug 2013 #26

I am not pretending there was not self-defense prior to SYG. Bazinga Aug 2013 #30

Already been the victim of life threatening assault" BainsBane Aug 2013 #121

You say that like justifiable omicides was a bad thing. GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #138

No, homicide is not a good thing. BainsBane Aug 2013 #140

How would one invoke SYG if no assault ever took place? Bazinga Aug 2013 #143

Bullshit. ellisonz Aug 2013 #134

Do you really believe anything that you say? rl6214 Aug 2013 #164

You decided to dredge up a Zombie thread BainsBane Aug 2013 #179

To be fair, it was thucythucy who resurrected this thread. Bazinga Aug 2013 #181

The post you're responding to doesn't mention the 11 to 1 figure BainsBane Aug 2013 #198

And the post that rl6214 responded to didn't contain references in publications. Bazinga Aug 2013 #204

What statistics did I ignore? BainsBane Aug 2013 #205

Lol. pintobean Aug 2013 #206

Again your facts are wrong, I didn't dredge up anything rl6214 Aug 2013 #189

My facts are indeed right BainsBane Aug 2013 #199

Sure they are rl6214 Aug 2013 #209

Has anyone else considered the possibility pintobean Aug 2013 #16

If you think for a minute that SYG petition would have prevailed BainsBane Aug 2013 #27

Don't lecture me about honesty. (nt) pintobean Aug 2013 #28

so does that mean you simply do not care? BainsBane Aug 2013 #41

It means you shouldn't be pintobean Aug 2013 #44

Your little games are boring BainsBane Aug 2013 #47

My games? You never addressed my point pintobean Aug 2013 #53

You make your character crystal clear BainsBane Aug 2013 #61

You also shouldn't lecture about personal attacks. pintobean Aug 2013 #66

I'm sorry you aren't interested in discussing the subject of the OP BainsBane Aug 2013 #67

Bullshit. I commented on the OP pintobean Aug 2013 #69

That is not what I did BainsBane Aug 2013 #71

You put me on ignore right after I warned you about your security problem pintobean Aug 2013 #92

I'm with Bain's Bain on this one Kingofalldems Aug 2013 #109

Surprise, surprise. pintobean Aug 2013 #113

Yeah I won't forget Kingofalldems Aug 2013 #115

Won't forget what? pintobean Aug 2013 #116

I just read this thread and confirmed things haven't changed Kingofalldems Aug 2013 #122

I'm with pinto bean on this one. rl6214 Aug 2013 #167

This message was self-deleted by its author Kingofalldems Aug 2013 #168

Same could be said about your post rl6214 Aug 2013 #170

OK sorry. Thought you were. Kingofalldems Aug 2013 #180

Post removed Post removed Aug 2013 #201

It wouldn't occur to you that there existed another point of view BainsBane Aug 2013 #114

Another failed alert pintobean Aug 2013 #127

Ah, the mystery unfolds. But somehow I'm not surprised. Eleanors38 Aug 2013 #133

Nice rl6214 Aug 2013 #166

Um, the raw numbers tell a different story, you don't get to make up your own facts snooper2 Aug 2013 #200

Looks like you forgot about the real world FL statistics. GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #31

More bullshit BainsBane Aug 2013 #35

Show us the hard numbers behind that "fact" hack89 Aug 2013 #40

I've shown them multiple times BainsBane Aug 2013 #43

There are no hard numbers there hack89 Aug 2013 #50

You didn't read those articles. You didn't have time BainsBane Aug 2013 #59

The blog comes from your link. It is where the 11-1 figure originally comes from hack89 Aug 2013 #60

Yes BainsBane Aug 2013 #62

None of your articles give hard numbers. hack89 Aug 2013 #63

Ask me after work when I have time BainsBane Aug 2013 #64

I look forward to your further evasions. Later. nt hack89 Aug 2013 #65

If you're going to be snarky BainsBane Aug 2013 #76

I am very interested. I also have gone down this road with you before hack89 Aug 2013 #77

Here are some more sources BainsBane Aug 2013 #84

So you do have time to go back to your original thread and show me the hard numbers hack89 Aug 2013 #86

I get that you all learn this tactic BainsBane Aug 2013 #90

You made a claim you cannot back up. hack89 Aug 2013 #91

you ignore all evidence BainsBane Aug 2013 #107

Your post had no hard numbers hack89 Aug 2013 #110

aargh BainsBane Aug 2013 #117

No hack89 Aug 2013 #124

The office of civil rights has every right to investigate. Bazinga Aug 2013 #129

You provided a statistic and its source. Bazinga Aug 2013 #93

Are you actually pretending there is a moral equivlancy BainsBane Aug 2013 #85

Self defense is not murder hack89 Aug 2013 #87

SYG is not self defense BainsBane Aug 2013 #123

You still have to convince a jury of the traditional elements of self defense hack89 Aug 2013 #126

That's not true BainsBane Aug 2013 #131

We will never agree so let's end this thread, ok? nt hack89 Aug 2013 #135

After accusing me of evading BainsBane Aug 2013 #136

I am not really trying to engage you hack89 Aug 2013 #141

You obviously didn't look very closely BainsBane Aug 2013 #78

The Texas study does not mention racial disparities hack89 Aug 2013 #82

I made several points BainsBane Aug 2013 #108

I am trying get through your evasions hack89 Aug 2013 #111

The evasions are all yours BainsBane Aug 2013 #118

11-1. Where are the numbers? nt hack89 Aug 2013 #125

All those MJ graphs tell me is Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2013 #54

Cherry pick? I used ALL W on B & B on W shootings in FL. GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #75

Not according to the numbers. Bazinga Aug 2013 #32

11 to 1 BainsBane Aug 2013 #38

What you have is the distorting effects of small numbers hack89 Aug 2013 #46

Oh, so an entirely racist policing and justice system BainsBane Aug 2013 #51

In Florida, Blacks claiming SYG are acquitted at a higher rate than Whites hack89 Aug 2013 #57

More accurately, Bazinga Aug 2013 #79

Take another look at your statistic Bazinga Aug 2013 #68

11 to 1 rrneck Aug 2013 #74

How do you flat out ignore stats when forming your opinions? joeglow3 Aug 2013 #34

11 to 1 BainsBane Aug 2013 #36

Anyone can invoke it. joeglow3 Aug 2013 #37

That is the point BainsBane Aug 2013 #39

Yeah, and the "proof" of legalizing murder of blacks is weak at best joeglow3 Aug 2013 #42

Twice in this subthread I've provided sources BainsBane Aug 2013 #45

And in Florida, blacks claiming SYG are acquitted at a higher rate than whites. hack89 Aug 2013 #52

No, you are not being honest rl6214 Aug 2013 #165

If it hasn't been stated Boom Sound 416 Aug 2013 #139

He will deserve whatever penalty he gets pintobean Aug 2013 #145

thats fine Boom Sound 416 Aug 2013 #146

Some guy said ill make him trayvon 2. Some kid said f$ck you and turned the system against itself Township75 Aug 2013 #144

Sounds perfectly fine LittleBlue Aug 2013 #21

Kill! Kill! Kill! Iggo Aug 2013 #23

With a club or a gun? Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2013 #49

Both! Iggo Aug 2013 #147

The dead guy was committing an assault. Lizzie Poppet Aug 2013 #25

Dead guy should not have been swinging a club at the innocent teen. GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #33

ha.. like there is anyone who thinks almost G_j Aug 2013 #88

It seems more than a few sarisataka Aug 2013 #97

I don't think so G_j Aug 2013 #98

Holy Double Negative Batman sarisataka Aug 2013 #100

I dream of an American where once again sticking wielding maniacs can safely assault teens. Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2013 #48

Too many nuts with guns in Florida HockeyMom Aug 2013 #70

Don't assault people and you will be OK. GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #80

Drive too slow in the right hand lane HockeyMom Aug 2013 #105

Do you plan on chasing and trying to assault young adults? Taitertots Aug 2013 #152

Driving too slow in the right hand lane? HockeyMom Aug 2013 #184

So, you oppose SYG because of situations where SYG doesn't apply? Taitertots Aug 2013 #185

They think SYG is an excuse to shoot somebody HockeyMom Aug 2013 #187

From what I can tell: You think that is what other people think... Taitertots Aug 2013 #188

This one is less black and white for me magical thyme Aug 2013 #72

Local news. Put it in the Gungeon. nt Eleanors38 Aug 2013 #73

This message was self-deleted by its author GreenStormCloud Aug 2013 #81

+1 Tuesday Afternoon Aug 2013 #99

Why no charge for the illegal gun? n-t Logical Aug 2013 #112

The link says he's going to be charged for illegal possession. n/t cherokeeprogressive Aug 2013 #120

Gun freaks love legalised murder. 99Forever Aug 2013 #119

Doesn't sound much like he was a rl6214 Aug 2013 #169

He sounds exactly like a... 99Forever Aug 2013 #186

No he sounds like a young punk with a gun rl6214 Aug 2013 #190

Exactly. 99Forever Aug 2013 #191

Bullshit rl6214 Aug 2013 #192

Who appointed you... 99Forever Aug 2013 #194

Right back at ya rl6214 Aug 2013 #207

I thought "gun nut" = a white, racist, RW NRA member. hack89 Aug 2013 #193

Now now, you don't want to get him/her all riled up rl6214 Aug 2013 #208

Anonymously calling people cowards pintobean Aug 2013 #196

Golly gee... 99Forever Aug 2013 #197

Awful example. A "choir director" who attacked children with a large stick? DirkGently Aug 2013 #132

So, this is what happened krispos42 Aug 2013 #137

Insane law! B Calm Aug 2013 #142

Seems like a reasonable outcome to me... Demo_Chris Aug 2013 #151

Gee, I was right, a crap load of replies to this one,,,,,,,,,,,,,, benld74 Aug 2013 #153

Here's how Justice Holmes analyized self-defense in 1921 in the Brown case: AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2013 #154

Kid with illegal gun. Parents should be imprisoned first of all. valerief Aug 2013 #176

How does a parent control what a 17 year old does? pintobean Aug 2013 #178

this law gives gun huggers the edge olddots Aug 2013 #177

At what kind of church was he a choir director? Was it an anti-gay church? Freddie Stubbs Aug 2013 #195

Fucking gun nuts and property worshippers! gopiscrap Aug 2013 #202

There's probably a metric Turbineguy Aug 2013 #203