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In reply to the discussion: Thanks, Stand Your Ground! No homicide charges for teen who shot, killed man [View all]http://blog.metrotrends.org/2012/03/stand-ground-laws-miscarriages-justice/
First, it is important to note that justifiable homicides are exceedingly rare. Between January 2005 and December 2009 there were more than 73,000 homicides in the United States but less than 2 percent (1,148) were found to be justifiable.
We combed the data to identify homicides which resemble the known facts from the Trayvon Martin casecases in which there was a single victim and a single shooter (both of whom were civilians and strangers) and in which the victim was killed by a handgun. We identified 4,650 of these cases in the SHR. Of these, just 10.9 percent (506) were ruled to be justifiable homicides.
We then looked for a scenario where homicides are justified more than half the time. It turns out that the scenario with the highest probability of being a justified homicide is much like the Martin casea single, White civilian handgun shooter who is a stranger to (and older than) the Black victim. But even then, the shooting is found to be justified less than half the time.
Finally, we searched the SHR data for cases that matched all the facts of the Martin case (including ages and races). Out of 70,000 cases, we find that the homicides similar to the Martin case occurred just 23 times in five years. Of those 23 cases, only 9 (39 percent) were ruled to be justifiable homicides.
Since the overwhelming majority of shootings are not justified, it seems clear that SYG laws reduce the chance for justice by moving the burden of proof from the shooter to law enforcement.
First, it is important to note that justifiable homicides are exceedingly rare. Between January 2005 and December 2009 there were more than 73,000 homicides in the United States but less than 2 percent (1,148) were found to be justifiable.
We combed the data to identify homicides which resemble the known facts from the Trayvon Martin casecases in which there was a single victim and a single shooter (both of whom were civilians and strangers) and in which the victim was killed by a handgun. We identified 4,650 of these cases in the SHR. Of these, just 10.9 percent (506) were ruled to be justifiable homicides.
We then looked for a scenario where homicides are justified more than half the time. It turns out that the scenario with the highest probability of being a justified homicide is much like the Martin casea single, White civilian handgun shooter who is a stranger to (and older than) the Black victim. But even then, the shooting is found to be justified less than half the time.
Finally, we searched the SHR data for cases that matched all the facts of the Martin case (including ages and races). Out of 70,000 cases, we find that the homicides similar to the Martin case occurred just 23 times in five years. Of those 23 cases, only 9 (39 percent) were ruled to be justifiable homicides.
Since the overwhelming majority of shootings are not justified, it seems clear that SYG laws reduce the chance for justice by moving the burden of proof from the shooter to law enforcement.
While your 11 to 1 factoid sounds like a horrible miscarriage of justice caused by SYG laws, when we look at the data it seems to disappear into statistical insignificance. Since laws are human constructs, and humans are imperfect, the laws we craft will be imperfect as well. There will be miscarriages of justice, of which the Zimmerman case is a fine example.
If SYG laws were universally repealed today, I expect the result will be little more than a statistically insignificant blip in the conviction rate for racially motivated homicide and conviction for same. And that blip would be easily swallowed by extenuating factors that are much more deserving of our attention because of their efficacy in the improvement of people's lives outside the narrow confines of self defense.
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Thanks, Stand Your Ground! No homicide charges for teen who shot, killed man [View all]
Robb
Aug 2013
OP
waved a stick at the teens. one ran away. the other could have, but didn't. waving a stick
HiPointDem
Aug 2013
#13
swinging and waving are the same action. the other teen was able to run away from the big
HiPointDem
Aug 2013
#103
in principle i see a value of 'reasonable force' - that's not what i'm seeing
samsingh
Aug 2013
#149
SYG lowers the threshold for using deadly violence. It is a fucking bad law.
bluestate10
Aug 2013
#101
syg = blacks can kills blacks & whites can kill blacks. but blacks killing whites? less likely.
HiPointDem
Aug 2013
#11
What's to prevent the exact same scenario from occurring under duty to retreat?
Bazinga
Aug 2013
#158
And the post that rl6214 responded to didn't contain references in publications.
Bazinga
Aug 2013
#204
Um, the raw numbers tell a different story, you don't get to make up your own facts
snooper2
Aug 2013
#200
The blog comes from your link. It is where the 11-1 figure originally comes from
hack89
Aug 2013
#60
So you do have time to go back to your original thread and show me the hard numbers
hack89
Aug 2013
#86
Some guy said ill make him trayvon 2. Some kid said f$ck you and turned the system against itself
Township75
Aug 2013
#144
I dream of an American where once again sticking wielding maniacs can safely assault teens.
Nuclear Unicorn
Aug 2013
#48
The link says he's going to be charged for illegal possession. n/t
cherokeeprogressive
Aug 2013
#120
Awful example. A "choir director" who attacked children with a large stick?
DirkGently
Aug 2013
#132
Here's how Justice Holmes analyized self-defense in 1921 in the Brown case:
AnotherMcIntosh
Aug 2013
#154
At what kind of church was he a choir director? Was it an anti-gay church?
Freddie Stubbs
Aug 2013
#195