General Discussion

rhett o rick

(55,981 posts)

190. I love your certainty. "There is no wholesale government spying on Americans."

Sun Aug 18, 2013, 06:17 PM

Aug 2013

And you are sure of that how? Did Gen Clapper tell you? Did Obama tell you? Neither of them have a reason to lie. Well maybe they do if it implicated them in violating both the FISA Law and the Constitution.

Isnt certainty the opposite of open-mindedness?

I do know that it's tempting to blindly believe our authoritarian leaders. But democracy and authoritarianism do not mix. Democratic principles do not include blindly following ANYONE. Even Democrats. But Clapper is a REpublican. That's a double whammy.

The problem is that you havent been paying close attention. The NSA has admitted to "wholesale spying". At least wholesale data collection.

Wouldnt it be wise to wait until all the evidence has been examined before jumping to the conclusion that everything is peachy?

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I am getting sick and fucking tired of hearing that anyone opposed to NSA domestic . . . . [View all] Stinky The Clown Aug 2013 OP

It needed to be said. Thank you for saying it. Autumn Aug 2013 #1

Wait ProSense Aug 2013 #2

I swear, it's like you're *immune* to logic. Marr Aug 2013 #10

Kick and rec if you support the proposed NSA reforms. ProSense Aug 2013 #21

The reforms are weak which has been pointed out to you countless times. nt Mojorabbit Aug 2013 #73

It's amost as if she believes listening doesn't pay. last1standing Aug 2013 #74

And some people believe they get more buck for their bang by posting in quantity, not quality. n/t A Simple Game Aug 2013 #147

+1 Whoa. Is THAT ever true: Smarmie Doofus Aug 2013 #254

...and any amount of reforms would still be weak to the GG is god stokers, what difference uponit7771 Aug 2013 #103

Snark like yours adds zip to the conversation. Do you have any comments Mojorabbit Aug 2013 #107

Guess the OP flew right over your head. cui bono Aug 2013 #162

You're responding to someone who thinks universal healthcare and public schools are conservative. last1standing Aug 2013 #222

How do you feel about the massive surveillance programs Ron Wyden has been trying to warn sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #218

The ones that will be overseen by Clapper? For a day or so we were hopeful, then the Fox sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #219

Some people around here will call you a racist apologist if you agree with one word that stillwaiting Aug 2013 #22

She's not rewarded for being logical LondonReign2 Aug 2013 #38

What do logic and propaganda have to do with each other? last1standing Aug 2013 #43

I think they get vaccinated for the job. Fuddnik Aug 2013 #64

It's like automatic. A response is posted even if it doesnt pertain. Must get a response posted. rhett o rick Aug 2013 #185

Yes, seems designed to muddy the waters,. to make actual debate impossible. Civilization2 Aug 2013 #199

Most often a link back to another post bobduca Aug 2013 #213

Unless it is done by a bot KurtNYC Aug 2013 #252

The New Civil Rights Movement: against spying, lying, wars, ProCheney-ProAuthoritarian BS. chimpymustgo Aug 2013 #12

"We're for what democracy in general, and Democrats in particular are supposed to stand for." ProSense Aug 2013 #30

Just stop slandering DU'er's. This has NOTHING THE FUCK to do with RAND PAUL. chimpymustgo Aug 2013 #66

She just can't stand it that some people don't think Obama is perfect. lark Aug 2013 #180

LOL! ProSense Aug 2013 #205

Oh brother. Non one is fucking "slandering DU'er's." ProSense Aug 2013 #204

I AGREE! FUCK RAND PAUL!!!! cascadiance Aug 2013 #245

I have beened Cryptoad Aug 2013 #82

"I never thought I would have to fight in here. . " LondonReign2 Aug 2013 #171

Bull Cryptoad Aug 2013 #172

Agreed, the corporate-military spook supporters are the only ones bringing up the Pauls. Civilization2 Aug 2013 #200

And the Carlyle Group-owned, PNAC-led Booz Allen got $2 billion, courtesy of Obama. OnyxCollie Aug 2013 #20

"ProSense hearts Poppy Bush/Carlyle Group/PNAC/James Woolsey" ljm2002 Aug 2013 #67

Obama's second term: A productive six months. ProSense Aug 2013 #75

You are the one who repeatedly does guilt-by-association... ljm2002 Aug 2013 #80

Do you support the massive surveillance program Ron Wyden, a Democrat who I fully support btw sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #221

I do not think that is true. Th1onein Aug 2013 #161

Well I don't either... ljm2002 Aug 2013 #167

You think that there is an effort to "catapult the propaganda" here, or Th1onein Aug 2013 #189

I think it's catapulting the propaganda... ljm2002 Aug 2013 #194

You are right on point,. the attempt is to muddy the debate, and make treads unreadable / useless. Civilization2 Aug 2013 #203

Oh, now that's just dishonest. NuclearDem Aug 2013 #29

x2 AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2013 #51

"Please don't act like we're stupid. " ProSense Aug 2013 #59

You IGNORE the OP and post more pro-non-sense,. . unrelated noise, useless links to self,. . Civilization2 Aug 2013 #206

You just can't stop yourself can you? East Coast Pirate Aug 2013 #127

OMG... just fucking stop already. cui bono Aug 2013 #160

You know what: ProSense Aug 2013 #179

"people who believe nonsense" NealK Aug 2013 #187

The OP is not about Snowden not being a Paulite David Krout Aug 2013 #177

SSDD lark Aug 2013 #178

Just wow! Reading is fundamental,. the OP crushed you BEFORE you commented,. wow! Civilization2 Aug 2013 #198

So, if Assange and Greenwald wear a red tie than all people who wear red ties are Paulites? Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2013 #211

And why should we care about any of that? This President has no problems with Repulicans sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #217

LOL! I can almost guarantee you won't get a straight answer to that question. last1standing Aug 2013 #223

It's astounding, isn't it? The incredible childishness of it all. That they actually think people sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #226

Don't worry, tomorrow there will be an entirely new angle blasted through the forums. last1standing Aug 2013 #228

I think the money being spent is most likely going to Security Contractors to try to smear sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #235

Speaking of serial killers, do any of you religiously believe in Ayn Rand's obsession with one? cascadiance Aug 2013 #246

Quote, "if you're inclined to throw it at me, Fuck You." grahamhgreen Aug 2013 #239

K n R n2doc Aug 2013 #3

Their goal is not to convince anyone of anything bvar22 Aug 2013 #135

I really hate to think this, bvar, but I am slowly coming to the conclusion that it might be true. Th1onein Aug 2013 #164

I'm inclined to agree. I've noticed these little exit detours are almost always posted Marr Aug 2013 #188

Yup, you noticed a key tactic, the "exit path link", designed to pull eyes OFF the offending truth! Civilization2 Aug 2013 #208

Chomsky explains it: Fire Walk With Me Aug 2013 #227

^^ +1. . . . . n/t annabanana Aug 2013 #248

It's almost funny-- this tiny, vacuum-sealed group points at everyone outside their tiny bubble Marr Aug 2013 #4

yes, it's exactly the same behavior I monitored at freerepublic.. grasswire Aug 2013 #40

Well it worked so well for them. zeemike Aug 2013 #41

Monty Python did a good bit about this Vinnie From Indy Aug 2013 #58

Are you now, or have you ever been, in a romantic relationship with a pole dancer? Newsjock Aug 2013 #5

yes... KoKo Aug 2013 #76

I wouldn't call my relationships with pole dancers as romantic hootinholler Aug 2013 #105

A vehement K&R followed by a Bonobo Aug 2013 #6

all this talk about paul this and paul that and paulites makes me think BOG PERSON Aug 2013 #7

Powerful and recommended. Cooley Hurd Aug 2013 #8

K to the friggin R! A pox on all this neo-McCarthyism masquerading as HardTimes99 Aug 2013 #9

I'm with you. marble falls Aug 2013 #13

I'm not that partisan 90-percent Aug 2013 #11

I've been on a fair amount the past week - TBF Aug 2013 #14

I agree with what you have said. Skidmore Aug 2013 #28

They've all been screwing the same pooch pscot Aug 2013 #139

Absolutely true alarimer Aug 2013 #15

100% with you. WinkyDink Aug 2013 #16

K & R n/t RoccoR5955 Aug 2013 #17

I'd say that 99.9% of DUers are opposed to domestic spying. randome Aug 2013 #18

Meh, it's just another desperate attempt to marginalize concern about the NSA's activities. winter is coming Aug 2013 #19

I would assume some of them actually know what is really going on, and is it much worse! Civilization2 Aug 2013 #209

Spot on. go west young man Aug 2013 #23

I also wanted to add this great post from Sabrina1 in regards to this matter from yesterday. go west young man Aug 2013 #27

yes, Bush and Obama both have that wrong grasswire Aug 2013 #46

^^^^This^^^^ truebluegreen Aug 2013 #150

She definitely nailed it. +! KoKo Aug 2013 #83

I am hoping that in upcoming election cycles, NorthCarolina Aug 2013 #98

I agree. Sabrina1 really nailed it with that post. bvar22 Aug 2013 #144

Michelle Bachmann, Rick Santorum and Lindsey Graham love mass surveillance. limpyhobbler Aug 2013 #24

You are pure then when it comes to name calling right? treestar Aug 2013 #25

do you have links to the OP calling others on this board names? would be instructive to see them. niyad Aug 2013 #37

It would be very instructive Autumn Aug 2013 #56

believe me, not holding my breath for that. niyad Aug 2013 #57

That's your entire thinking on the subject? A bunch of personal snark at the OP and an emoticon? Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #42

Your snarky reply is a good example of the problem that the OP is talking about. totodeinhere Aug 2013 #88

... SammyWinstonJack Aug 2013 #108

You would know, you are one of the worst. n-t Logical Aug 2013 #121

You are wasting my time. sibelian Aug 2013 #258

HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!! WillyT Aug 2013 #26

Ya nailed it Stinky and Dyedinthewoolliberal Aug 2013 #31

Its a disgusting logical fallacy Ichingcarpenter Aug 2013 #32

k and r niyad Aug 2013 #33

Fuck the libertarians, fuck the surveillance state, and SHAME on those Fire Walk With Me Aug 2013 #34

+1 sarcasmo Aug 2013 #44

It's like they've never heard of an ad hominim attack before Salviati Aug 2013 #94

That it can occur here at all, in any form, much less consistently, is as frightening as the Fire Walk With Me Aug 2013 #173

yes it is. nashville_brook Aug 2013 #176

Just remember, if you've done nothing wrong, well you have nothing to fear DainBramaged Aug 2013 #35

K&R forestpath Aug 2013 #36

K&R G_j Aug 2013 #39

BIG K&R LondonReign2 Aug 2013 #45

"We're your conscience." gulliver Aug 2013 #47

They're using basic propaganda techniques to demonize the enemy. last1standing Aug 2013 #48

yep,it's ugly stuff grasswire Aug 2013 #50

If there is, these people couldn't afford tuition. last1standing Aug 2013 #53

and the paranoia grasswire Aug 2013 #54

They're giving Paul and Libertarianism lots of publicity leftstreet Aug 2013 #65

Yes they are. last1standing Aug 2013 #102

thank you, Sailor! nt grasswire Aug 2013 #49

The Propagandists are trying to put us on the defensive AZ Progressive Aug 2013 #52

I'm against that kind of abuse now as I was when it was Bush doing it. I can't brewens Aug 2013 #55

I agree�spying is wrong.... No matter who is in the White House... midnight Aug 2013 #60

Well said. AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2013 #61

Exactly. This is McCarthyist tactics. backscatter712 Aug 2013 #120

SnowGlenn are Paulite Paulbots... Whisp Aug 2013 #62

...so says a snot splasher nonpareil. nt grasswire Aug 2013 #155

I don't support some whack-a-do thieves and charlatans Whisp Aug 2013 #156

Come on, Whisp, you know better than this kind of post. Th1onein Aug 2013 #165

There is no wholesale government spying on Americans. Whisp Aug 2013 #166

I love your certainty. "There is no wholesale government spying on Americans." rhett o rick Aug 2013 #190

you know how I'm so certain? Whisp Aug 2013 #193

Let's look at your logic. Because some idiots claimed Obama was born in Kenya rhett o rick Aug 2013 #230

Whisp! Even the government has admitted that they are collecting everything! Th1onein Aug 2013 #191

You fail when you get to "adore and trust" them. morningfog Aug 2013 #174

Maybe the party was taken over by George Wallace Democrats. Fuddnik Aug 2013 #63

Go Stinky! You rock! nt Mnemosyne Aug 2013 #68

You would think The Philosopher Aug 2013 #69

I wholeheartedly agree Stinky. mick063 Aug 2013 #70

Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Aug 2013 #71

Sad times Loudestlib Aug 2013 #72

Nice post. You are one of many, many lifetime Democrats who are seriously wondering what sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #238

The best thing about calling out the Pauls and their supporters is that ProSense Aug 2013 #77

Start a rebuttal thread. You're like a fart in a wondstorm here. Stinky The Clown Aug 2013 #81

There is nothing to rebut except the strawman claim, which I ProSense Aug 2013 #92

Your trope is broke, your meme is maimed, your brand is burned.... Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #104

Look at the rec's and it is done. Autumn Aug 2013 #114

Here's another thread ProSense Aug 2013 #143

That was a good OP. Autumn Aug 2013 #148

Man, you're now reduced to spelling barbs. Stinky The Clown Aug 2013 #183

Some value principles over principals. Imagine that. AnotherMcIntosh Aug 2013 #86

An enthusiastic K&R! n/t totodeinhere Aug 2013 #78

If someone is for NSA spying simply because Paul is for it they are thinking like the Tea Party. Kablooie Aug 2013 #79

I think they have moved on to other equally lame talking points 99th_Monkey Aug 2013 #84

The facepalming one: mick063 Aug 2013 #95

Right on! damnedifIknow Aug 2013 #85

K&R! SammyWinstonJack Aug 2013 #87

Not everyone. But most certainly the "heroes" Snowden, Greenwald, and Assange MjolnirTime Aug 2013 #89

Thank you for saying what I've been thinking. crim son Aug 2013 #90

INDEED! tblue Aug 2013 #91

K and F'ing R Hydra Aug 2013 #93

We are all sick of it. But by now, most people just ignore it and focus on trying to get something sabrina 1 Aug 2013 #96

It's just plain juvenile and stupid, and Zorra Aug 2013 #97

Hear hear! East Coast Pirate Aug 2013 #99

On the issue of security vs privacy, there is a huge gender gap. lumberjack_jeff Aug 2013 #100

There lies the problem.......... Historic NY Aug 2013 #111

You dont think that shift could have anything to do with Egnever Aug 2013 #130

Those polls asked two different questions JHB Aug 2013 #159

You are a jackass. You complain other Dems create divisions on NSA Pretzel_Warrior Aug 2013 #101

Ah, the direct namecalling. A wonderful feature of your work. Do you really think it elevates your Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #106

Just getting tired of the fake condescension. Most of you are extremely flawed individuals too Pretzel_Warrior Aug 2013 #109

What do you mean by 'most of you'? Do you mean gay people? I'm just one guy. Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #116

You're not a very forgiving person, are you? Pretzel_Warrior Aug 2013 #119

How is that obvious? Why would I have a 'grudge' against some internet poster? Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #151

I reject that bullshit too, bvar22 Aug 2013 #196

Jury voted 3-3 to leave a direct ad-hominem attack. backscatter712 Aug 2013 #122

The whole OP was ad hominem attack on DU'ers who disagree with him. Pretzel_Warrior Aug 2013 #126

Really BeyondGeography Aug 2013 #152

You certainly are on a roll! zappaman Aug 2013 #163

A Kaiser roll? Rex Aug 2013 #225

Duh. zappaman Aug 2013 #236

Why I no longer participate in that system nadinbrzezinski Aug 2013 #136

I know where you're coming from. Stinky The Clown Aug 2013 #134

By the way, your transparency page is showing. Stinky The Clown Aug 2013 #182

OUCH. bvar22 Aug 2013 #197

He's coming from the grave. Starry Messenger Aug 2013 #229

i found it. darkangel218 Aug 2013 #237

What a mess of an OP BeyondGeography Aug 2013 #110

No, the OP means that if we believe the NSA is spying on us LondonReign2 Aug 2013 #132

There's a lot that's blatantly obvious in that stinky chocolate box of an OP BeyondGeography Aug 2013 #149

The democratic party leadership has been running away from civil liberties issues since Nixon. Warren Stupidity Aug 2013 #112

k&r Little Star Aug 2013 #113

They take their cue from Obama and the crowded space under his aircraft carrier sized bus MotherPetrie Aug 2013 #115

you will also be accused of being a foreign agent for China. hows that one eh? nt msongs Aug 2013 #117

K&R! This authoritarian, McCarthyist tactic needs to be a TOS violation. backscatter712 Aug 2013 #118

Lololol. You crack me up Pretzel_Warrior Aug 2013 #124

Post removed Post removed Aug 2013 #123

DURec. bvar22 Aug 2013 #125

Two words heard from a local party insider nadinbrzezinski Aug 2013 #128

Seems to me the ones talking about it are the ones "sick" of it. DevonRex Aug 2013 #129

They are projecting AgingAmerican Aug 2013 #131

Well said, Stinky The Clown. Octafish Aug 2013 #133

REC #200 nt alp227 Aug 2013 #137

And I care what you are sick and tired of why? Egnever Aug 2013 #138

Hooray for Stinky The Clown!! I remember tsuki Aug 2013 #140

the K and the R.... mike_c Aug 2013 #141

The depraved 'association smear' is a favorite of partisan hacks whatchamacallit Aug 2013 #142

We sir, are not just the Democrats conscience.. 99Forever Aug 2013 #145

they're angry and they've got nothing. Phlem Aug 2013 #146

Stasi-bot, sycophant, cheerleader, pom pomer, apologist, authoritarian... Whisp Aug 2013 #153

If only the Stasi-bot, sycophant, cheerleader, pom pomer, apologist, authoritarian ... JoePhilly Aug 2013 #251

It seems like there are only two choices left here: "Obama Apologist" or "Obama Hater" arcane1 Aug 2013 #154

K&R There is a lot of 'Left Baiting' felix_numinous Aug 2013 #157

Amen! nradisic Aug 2013 #158

Hear hear! Note that those who excuse this tend to also excuse......... Demo_Chris Aug 2013 #168

Damn right Stinky The Clown!! Howler Aug 2013 #169

I am getting fucking sick and tired of supposed liberal Democrats baldguy Aug 2013 #170

+1 SunSeeker Aug 2013 #224

248 Rec's so far. Bluenorthwest Aug 2013 #175

knr Douglas Carpenter Aug 2013 #181

I question the motives of those who question our motives. DirkGently Aug 2013 #184

Seconded! Quantess Aug 2013 #186

Please, please tell me our government wouldnt lie to us. nm rhett o rick Aug 2013 #192

K&R DeSwiss Aug 2013 #195

Thank you Stinky the Clown n/t dflprincess Aug 2013 #201

Meh. We were already kicked out for complaining about Heritage Care. Doctor_J Aug 2013 #202

Imagine this story breaking between 2001-2008 madville Aug 2013 #207

It did, and no one gave a shit. SunSeeker Aug 2013 #232

For someone who wasn't here - Hell Hath No Fury Aug 2013 #234

LOL. The poster I was replying to was here since 2005... SunSeeker Aug 2013 #241

Fuck em. nt awoke_in_2003 Aug 2013 #210

Kick and Rec. NRaleighLiberal Aug 2013 #212

Couldn't agree more Stinky! Oakenshield Aug 2013 #214

I am against the spying Eko Aug 2013 #215

Well said, Stinky! Swiperthefox Aug 2013 #216

Indeed Wash. state Desk Jet Aug 2013 #220

K&R Eyerish Aug 2013 #231

A Bipartisan POLICE STATE... blkmusclmachine Aug 2013 #233

I love you, baby!!!! Time to seperate the wheat from the chaffe. grahamhgreen Aug 2013 #240

Happy to K&R this. nt laundry_queen Aug 2013 #242

You're just an insulting fellow. great white snark Aug 2013 #243

K&R idwiyo Aug 2013 #244

BAM!.. Thank you Stinky! annabanana Aug 2013 #247

The level of intellectual dishonesty is breathtaking. K&R n/t myrna minx Aug 2013 #249

Cons are such hypocrites thablueprint. Aug 2013 #250

Got links? JNelson6563 Aug 2013 #253

No links to real life, Julie Stinky The Clown Aug 2013 #255

Mea culpa JNelson6563 Aug 2013 #259

Now that that's all cleared up, have a swell day. Stinky The Clown Aug 2013 #260

And you as well. JNelson6563 Aug 2013 #261

I'm with you on each and every point. AikidoSoul Aug 2013 #256

K&R! TeamPooka Aug 2013 #257

*kick* One of the best threads ever! Thank you, Stinky! (nt) scarletwoman Aug 2013 #262

Here are some links to other NSA posts. rhett o rick Sep 2013 #263

Ah! Bookmarking for later. NYC_SKP Oct 2013 #264