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In reply to the discussion: Today I learned that many people posting here are transphobic. [View all]freshwest
(53,661 posts)191. My BNL, who I refer to above, was a person who made sure we referred to him as a 'he' long before
Last edited Sat Aug 24, 2013, 02:18 PM - Edit history (2)
he decided SAS was the way to go.He did not fit into the categories people tried to box him into, he rebelled against it. We were regulars at a club that specifically catered to lesbians but all were welcome as most places were at that time. I chose to live in an area that was mostly gay as I felt much more comfortable and at ease there. My BNL had a relationship with a woman for some years then, and people assumed that he was lesbian and nothing more was said.
He was distinctly 'male' in all life endeavors, and in the social arena, was almost of the kind of guy I would not have liked to hang around with. Fierce as a bear, angry, had very definite ideas about how women 'should' act, stuff like that. He was into motor bikes, leather, pick up trucks, country music and had tattoos of naked ladies gracing his arms, the whole bit.
He was defiant about his strong interest in women and wouldn't let anyone tell him he was anything other than what he then defined himself to be His mom and I thought he felt he needed to prove something in a society where everyone seems to be forced to be hyper male or hyper female.
Or maybe it was just who he was, but a few years after the SAS and settling down, he had the tattoos removed, as if he had nothing to prove then. And most of his hyper male persona vanished. His life with women may have made him more sensitive in his role as a father of his daughter, as he was able to relate to her so well. He'd seen life from both sides and I felt she was lucky.
So the SAS (or SRAS) and finally getting to be a father let him be freer to express all of his traits, being at peace. He is a respected person in his work and the synagogue where they never had any issue with him. So that's why I think that.
The roles that people are pigeonholed into is a problem for straights as well as gays. I see human sexuality as spectrum and not able to be defined as it has been. I feel that trying to put someone in a box is coercion, and not done for their good, but to use them.
But I will say that he was a boy or man all along. He hated wearing dresses and all of that, but so did I. He felt like a freak in a dress and so did I. But I'm just a straight female, who doesn't go into all that social female stuff, it feels unnatual to me. But I am definitely hetero. I'm 'weird,' but it's just me.
It's much easier for a woman to dress as a man if we're talking jeans and stuff, than the other way around, more social acceptance. And not everyone who wears the clothes fitting another gender model can be said to be LGBT or straight. Roman men wore togas, some Muslim men wear robes and some Scots wear kilts. Meh.
My son loves to wear pink and purple and loves romantic and girlie things, always has and has been called names for that. But that ended up being the least of his problems, really.
At least that barrier has been broken, and no one gives me any flak for my choice of clothing, either, but as ridiculous as it sounds to us now, it used to be a social problem. I do remember the flap about men wearing pink or doing housework. My first husband was a quarterback who took ballet in college, very tall, hairy chest and big muscles, for flexibility. And he was good at sewing and cooking. Some people need to grow up and get their noses out of other people's business.
Okay, back to my BNL. One afternoon as he was taking my son for a ride in the truck to the circus and then came back and they were playing in the yard, his mom and I were watching them and I said to her, 'Please don't take this the wrong way, but your daughter is a man.'
I said that because my son reacted to men and women quite differently. Whenever he saw my BNL, his eyes lit up, as his father (my second husband) was AWOL. For him, my BNL was 'the man,' the father he wanted to have and he loved him. There was no doubt in his mind what gender his 'uncle' was. This was before the mastectomy and certainly my son didn't know what was or was not in his underwear. He just 'knew.'
He and my son saw each for years and my son experienced bigotry for that in addition to all the other things that life was going to slap him in the face with, because some people are pigs.
She replied when I made that statement, 'We have been talking about the same thing. That 'X' is really coming from a different place, and we're looking into changing that for 'X.' (I won't write his name here, which he also changed legally.)
We all went through this process at different levels for the next few years. The doctors explaining how it was that he was born a man, but not with all the 'plumbing' as some might say. Went into explanations of the pre-natal development of the brain, all of that. The psychiatrist counseled him for a year, as this had to be well documented to get the SA process going.
From then it was a series of taking hormones, but not having to experiment with clothing as he never wore anything but 'male' clothing, anyway. He'd been going to the men's bathroom for years and standing up in a stall to 'take a leak.' This is the solution to the TG bath room issue, too, I think.
But then came the harder things, the mastectomy and hysterectomy. Not all people go through that. Then the creation of a phallus out of his body tissue. He had serious health problems through all of it. He was very ill for a while. Anyone who thinks SAS is like going shopping, needs to have their head examined.
Through it all he never complained, it was all just matter of course to him, and us. He never looked back or doubted his decision.
The state recognized the change, and all of his official documents were changed from female to male and in the eyes of the law, but not ignorant busy bodies. He was what he was.
When he had troubles to go through (mentioned in my post above) he also did not complain about bigotry, but instead he focused on the matter at hand, not hurt feelings. He was used to being miscategorized and didn't give a damn about what others thought about his sexual identity.
The safety of his little girl was all that mattered and his chance to be a father and live his life as he was. Still, it was an awful time for all of us, but he just kept plowing through the whole thing, never questioning himself as he'd gotten over that as a 'little girl.'
I think some people are mixing the issues of what they have learned about Manning's more private details with the politics. They can't help it. Just as there are some who see attacks on PBO as racist.
Some remarks on either, while not consciously bigoted still come from a place of finding something deeply wrong with both, with misjudging, that is not justified. But I empathize with the pain of those like Manning.
When one looks at the actions of the person and what they are working to do with their lives, which transcend the bodies that we live in and so many have prejudices about it, it is unavoidable.
I'm still seeing articles terming Manning as a homosexual. What does it matter, in terms of what a person does, we might ask. And we are talking about media that is going to overdo everything to make a buck.
Many people like me don't take anything that reminds them of family and friends being put down without a fight.
I don't feel that is what the Democratic Party is about, either. We are not the party of denying minorities, gays and women their rights as human beings. JMHO.
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Today I learned that many people posting here are transphobic. [View all]
Warren Stupidity
Aug 2013
OP
what's weird for me is that I've only seen one thread. I guess that means I have the right people on
liberal_at_heart
Aug 2013
#5
you don't have to. I've seen how some of these posters can get regarding other topics. I can
liberal_at_heart
Aug 2013
#7
i've never met a transgendered person (edited ... opps, wrong, it was no big deal that i forgot it.
shireen
Aug 2013
#202
Manning will be remembered positively long after Obama has become a mere footnote in history and
HardTimes99
Aug 2013
#23
You do understand that she is transgender and that she wants to go through the transition process.
hrmjustin
Aug 2013
#233
Well that is rude. If a person is transgender and has not completely transition you still call the
hrmjustin
Aug 2013
#237
If you were in front of a person who is transgender that has not fully transition would you still
hrmjustin
Aug 2013
#239
If you had a friend that wanted to be refered to as she and she was not completely female yet would
hrmjustin
Aug 2013
#241
I am going to bed. Had a bus day today. If you wish to discuss further I will can. Good night.
hrmjustin
Aug 2013
#251
I'll be honest, I alerted on this post for calling transgendered people delusional...
Humanist_Activist
Aug 2013
#258
What Manning taught us is mostly what we already knew. If you were born before 1950 all of these
kelliekat44
Aug 2013
#82
Well, I have been banned from LGBT group due to a little skirmish awhile back
Doctor_J
Aug 2013
#139
Are you trying to make up new acronyms on your own? You have to go through the committee dude-
snooper2
Aug 2013
#142
You have to be logged in to be selected for jury. For your theory to work ...
Bernardo de La Paz
Aug 2013
#176
Sad. I had a comment hidden from a non-serious thread for using the word "teleprompter"!!
7962
Aug 2013
#73
Met my first transgender 30 years ago when I shared an office. Everyone was cool about it.
Bernardo de La Paz
Aug 2013
#65
You're right. Sorry about that. I was probably posting too fast, which is a reason, not an excuse.
Bernardo de La Paz
Aug 2013
#210
I haven't seen a single one, which means I must have all the little piggie transphobes on ignore.
Zorra
Aug 2013
#25
Yup, first sign of that, and I never have to see them again! It works well for me, too.
freshwest
Aug 2013
#227
I know this will sound cliche, but I have two dear friends who are transgendered.
Flatulo
Aug 2013
#26
Yeah, I think some people believe that tolerance is enough, and in many cases it is, but
Flatulo
Aug 2013
#109
One of my good friends from the Malloy board was born with both genders....
Spitfire of ATJ
Aug 2013
#27
May we all become educated and compassionate toward all fellow human beings. n/t
Fire Walk With Me
Aug 2013
#34
I'm not sure that Catherina is homophobic or against transgenders from that OP.
Fire Walk With Me
Aug 2013
#143
Okay, thanks. This is mis-communication; Catherina is not homophobic but the army is, etc.
Fire Walk With Me
Aug 2013
#166
Hence the conversation-starters :) Communication, not reaction. Thanks!
Fire Walk With Me
Aug 2013
#169
josh, that is simply not fair. Concern for the ramifications of that photo's release from segments
hlthe2b
Aug 2013
#144
But the prosecution didn't release it....the defense did. The fact that she refused to acknowledge
msanthrope
Aug 2013
#177
I thought the defense used the pictures at the trial but the Army posted it....regardless
maddezmom
Aug 2013
#189
The Army is under a FOIA order, filed by the press and supporters of Manning, who wished
msanthrope
Aug 2013
#190
I happen to think that Skinner, EarlG, and Elad are fucking geniuses. And I don't say that lightly.
msanthrope
Aug 2013
#193
...and then there is a mass of your self deleted posts ...to avoid getting them hidden? n/t
L0oniX
Aug 2013
#196
That seems to be a blatant misrepresentation of the situation, to put it mildly.
Warren DeMontague
Aug 2013
#203
No not most, but plenty are prejudiced against transgendered people and gay people it is
Bluenorthwest
Aug 2013
#84
My child's godfather is TG. 35 years of hell until the surgery was completed. But it still wasn't
freshwest
Aug 2013
#62
Thanks, I'm having to go back and edit because it still makes me so upset I can't say it right.
freshwest
Aug 2013
#255
We have a crowd with all the decency and warmth of a Vogan payday loan company.
TheKentuckian
Aug 2013
#64
My BNL, who I refer to above, was a person who made sure we referred to him as a 'he' long before
freshwest
Aug 2013
#191
I dunno, when one compares hormone treatment to wanting a 50" tv, probably not.
Warren Stupidity
Aug 2013
#117
no. Nor have I ever said that, so I'm wondering why you are persisting in beating this particular
Warren Stupidity
Aug 2013
#195
That's fucked up. You can still go back and alert that. it's TOS. They shouldn't be here.
freshwest
Aug 2013
#229
Not only that, I had a post deleted calling out the ugliest bigotry I have ever seen here.
The Link
Aug 2013
#79
Skinner's House is always hateful during such times and should be avoided by good people
Bluenorthwest
Aug 2013
#91
It's a well-known condition, not a choice. See my reply on thread. Doctors at the trial agreed.
freshwest
Aug 2013
#235
I'm starting to feel a bit guilty for attracting bigots to the admin bug zapper.
Warren Stupidity
Aug 2013
#214
Yes indeedy they are, and also have issues with HC for all, and numerous other mytsifying...
Safetykitten
Aug 2013
#113
A lot of it is about power. It is easy to bully on the internet. Righteous bullying.
rhett o rick
Aug 2013
#116
I've learned more and more that DU is NOT what I used to think it was! DU can be
RKP5637
Aug 2013
#136
Wrong. A person may have female chromosomes and male genitalia. Identity is not genitals or DNA.
Bernardo de La Paz
Aug 2013
#160
Who cares if it is fabricated! You must hate veterans who have fabricated limbs! You have no logic!
Bernardo de La Paz
Aug 2013
#164