General Discussion

MichiganVote

(21,086 posts)

44. Nothing wrong with any question. But let's get real. You've changed the preface of your question.

Sun Feb 26, 2012, 10:32 AM

Feb 2012

You've changed/edited your post 6x. Imagine if you changed a lesson plan 6x in a classroom of kids? (which is sometimes the case on DU)

Hence, I rate your post performance as poor. Must be time for you to have a review and possibly to have a personal improvement plan if /when you are going to post on DU. There is an appeals process however, so you shouldn't be worried about re establishing your credibility if necessary. Nobody may want to enter your posts or forums and that will certainly diminish your effectiveness but that's the breaks ya' know. Its not like posting at DU is an entire career you have studied for, paid for and been found effective by the state in which you live for.

So no worries. Perhaps the media can define the hiring or firing of supposed derelict DU posters for you.....

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Public School Teachers and Administrators: How should we fire them? [View all] BrentWil Feb 2012 OP

"Always see news stories" and "teachers being kept despite bad performance,etc" MichiganVote Feb 2012 #1

The point isn't the what they say.. it is asking what the actual process SHOULD be... NT BrentWil Feb 2012 #2

A process is only as good as those who actually follow it. Think there are a lot of bad apples? MichiganVote Feb 2012 #7

Complex processes take time to go through... BrentWil Feb 2012 #18

Google and other companies can't just hire/fire at the drop of a hat ibegurpard Feb 2012 #25

Certainly they do.. BrentWil Feb 2012 #29

Those companies all have performance review processes too. They are also for profit enterprises. MichiganVote Feb 2012 #32

I am sure someone at Google manages 25 to 30 people BrentWil Feb 2012 #41

But that's not necessarily what will happen.. Fumesucker Feb 2012 #45

or just taller or better looking. nt Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #49

Certainly... BrentWil Feb 2012 #53

I didn't notice a mention of students in your OP.. Fumesucker Feb 2012 #57

I said "kids". Been a room full of 25-30 kids daily recently? No, you haven't. Nuff' said. MichiganVote Feb 2012 #50

Not being a teacher doesn't stop me from commenting on labor practices.. BrentWil Feb 2012 #58

How about you tell us what you perceive the problems are and then propose 1monster Feb 2012 #68

None flexibility for hiring/pay issues and also firing issues... BrentWil Feb 2012 #70

I was a public school teacher for nine years (9th grade mostly) Yupster Feb 2012 #92

Thanks for the post. Very good and I do think it shows some of the problems with the system. BrentWil Feb 2012 #94

Huh? 1monster Feb 2012 #105

Twenty-five to thirty school children on a daily basis is only true in elementary school. 1monster Feb 2012 #51

+1 MichiganVote Feb 2012 #52

I would say that would vary from district to district... BrentWil Feb 2012 #61

A committment on the part of the School Board all the way down to the the food 1monster Feb 2012 #67

I like how you preface your argument with "we always see news stories" about bad teachers Hugabear Feb 2012 #3

I don't "always" see news stories about how we keep bad teachers... trumad Feb 2012 #4

or Drudge... Hugabear Feb 2012 #26

Have you done some investigation on your own? ibegurpard Feb 2012 #5

Absolutely... BrentWil Feb 2012 #9

well, sounds like you have your answer then ibegurpard Feb 2012 #14

The point of the thread wasn't how it is done now... BrentWil Feb 2012 #23

Tenure saved my very-well-qualified liberalhistorian Feb 2012 #89

Tenure cost my good friend his job joeglow3 Feb 2012 #98

Because generally those who are there longer liberalhistorian Feb 2012 #99

Generally doesn't mean always. joeglow3 Feb 2012 #100

Rather than focusing on getting rid of bad teachers, MadHound Feb 2012 #6

if the same amount of education is required than I see Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #11

What are "the same amount of it's"? MadHound Feb 2012 #19

as soon as they have 4 years of college, 4 years of education school Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #24

I have all of that, but 5 years of a low paying residency. proud2BlibKansan Feb 2012 #71

There would have to be some sort of board certification program and something akin to the MCATs Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #96

Teachers never can expect huge salaries. RebelOne Feb 2012 #95

Well, because I didn't start a thread on that... BrentWil Feb 2012 #12

You started a thread on how to get rid of bad teachers, MadHound Feb 2012 #21

I'd be curious to see OPs definition of "bad teachers" as well ibegurpard Feb 2012 #27

It is rather subjective... I think that is best kept to local systems.. BrentWil Feb 2012 #31

As are the processes ALREADY IN PLACE ibegurpard Feb 2012 #33

Certainly... BrentWil Feb 2012 #37

Yeah, but he's not interested in that. He's only interested liberalhistorian Feb 2012 #91

I lean toward treating them the same way as IT professionals who are terminated for job performance slackmaster Feb 2012 #8

IE: just humiliate the fuck out of them eh? trumad Feb 2012 #10

No. Eject them from the premises before they have a chance to do any more harm. slackmaster Feb 2012 #56

Frog March? trumad Feb 2012 #65

I give you the TCU Horned Frog Marching Band in action slackmaster Feb 2012 #69

if you make your class write Valentines to your Snake Alchemist Feb 2012 #13

Nor should you be on paid leave while it takes years to fire you.....nt msanthrope Feb 2012 #102

"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers. " Smarmie Doofus Feb 2012 #15

Did I ever say in my OP that is what is wrong with public schools? BrentWil Feb 2012 #22

Not sure. You've edited it six times so far so I'm not sure what you may have said. Smarmie Doofus Feb 2012 #30

Yes, the betterment of education is my point... BrentWil Feb 2012 #34

Hiring and retaining good teachers is a HUGE part of it. Smarmie Doofus Feb 2012 #59

Thanks for the answer... BrentWil Feb 2012 #63

Any ideas about how to go about doing this? Smarmie Doofus Feb 2012 #76

As I said, I think any board of education should have one job.. BrentWil Feb 2012 #81

We effectively HAVE exactly that. It's called "mayoral control". Lots of urban districts have it. Smarmie Doofus Feb 2012 #86

I disagree that it has been a "disaster"... BrentWil Feb 2012 #87

Come on. It's Cathie Black. For god sakes. Smarmie Doofus Feb 2012 #88

Come on. It's Cathie Black. For god sakes. Smarmie Doofus Feb 2012 #90

Who ProSense Feb 2012 #16

Why Not? BrentWil Feb 2012 #20

Yeah ProSense Feb 2012 #28

The fact that every school board is different doesn't stop one from discussing the ideal solution.NT BrentWil Feb 2012 #35

This ProSense Feb 2012 #43

The subject has merit... JSnuffy Feb 2012 #17

sad because it's true. Terry_M Feb 2012 #36

Perhaps the issue should be on how to hire them--not fire them. MichiganVote Feb 2012 #38

That is one part of it... BrentWil Feb 2012 #39

Nothing wrong with any question. But let's get real. You've changed the preface of your question. MichiganVote Feb 2012 #44

+1 OH YEAH. I forgot. REALITY. We have to figure out a way to get rid of you, MV. Smarmie Doofus Feb 2012 #75

I am. Matter of fact I've been that way since I started. MichiganVote Feb 2012 #79

Where did you find the dull BS anyway? Did you just make it up? L. Coyote Feb 2012 #40

It IS a tea party soundbite ibegurpard Feb 2012 #42

Wants to advance the non payment of teachers. Period. MichiganVote Feb 2012 #48

Local control is good... BrentWil Feb 2012 #55

It's ProSense Feb 2012 #47

So emotional... BrentWil Feb 2012 #54

WTF? "inability to improve because of lack of motivation" L. Coyote Feb 2012 #62

Public School Teachers and Administrators: How WE DO fire them!!! L. Coyote Feb 2012 #46

That is a problem.. BrentWil Feb 2012 #60

WTF? "And has to be thought about..." NO, this has to be rectified L. Coyote Feb 2012 #64

Secretaries of Education: How Should We Fire Them? Karmadillo Feb 2012 #66

+1,000,000 proud2BlibKansan Feb 2012 #72

It's ALWAYS down to the administrators. saras Feb 2012 #73

Systems affect the process... BrentWil Feb 2012 #74

Actually the word you are looking for is 'affect', not effect. MichiganVote Feb 2012 #80

The problem is in the question and defintions. Igel Feb 2012 #77

nooo! too much nuance...doesn't fit the narrative... ibegurpard Feb 2012 #82

Unpacking accomplished. +1 n/t Smarmie Doofus Feb 2012 #97

Excellent post from someone who actually knows something. Chorophyll Feb 2012 #104

It's pretty easy to find the flaws here Major Nikon Feb 2012 #78

The system is what can produce both... BrentWil Feb 2012 #83

Poorly performing managers generally try to blame employees for their own failures Major Nikon Feb 2012 #85

A solution may be like what the National Hockey League did to introduce helmets. bluestate10 Feb 2012 #84

Ok lets take your points 1 by 1 MichiganVote Feb 2012 #93

I imagine if each teacher taught students that were motivated LanternWaste Feb 2012 #101

I look forward to the day Chorophyll Feb 2012 #103

Local control...... Are_grits_groceries Feb 2012 #106